SuperLuigi9624
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2012
- Messages
- 25
Little Mac is honestly a mixed bag. Sometimes you destroy him from like, 10-0 and sometimes you can't even get a hit off.
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There's too many newbies playing Lil' Mac to get a decent feel for him. I can't count how many times I've dealt with Macs that just Side-B off the edge, or just let me grab them over and over again.Little Mac is honestly a mixed bag. Sometimes you destroy him from like, 10-0 and sometimes you can't even get a hit off.
It's very hard to land against Mac if he plays right. He definitely juggles Mario very easily, and his 1 frame Jab and 3 frame F-tilt are crazy. But yeah, you typically will outlast him, and you basically only need to make one simple read/reaction to KO him once he's offstage.There's too many newbies playing Lil' Mac to get a decent feel for him. I can't count how many times I've dealt with Macs that just Side-B off the edge, or just let me grab them over and over again.
Right now though I have to say Mac is in Mario's favor since his air game is non-existant, and handling his ground-game is doable.
If you expect a Nair combo breaker, shield it and grab him, or just U smash him if you have enough time.I feel like as usual, Mario's combos are easily broken by Luigi's neutral air
The difficulty of Luigi is correlated with how impatient you get. You have to time your moves well against him. Your best bet of beating him is in a spacing war with an emphasis on juggling him safely with spaced U-tilt and U-smash (and shieldgrabs) to beat his N-air.I feel like as usual, Mario's combos are easily broken by Luigi's neutral air
I don't want to give a ratio on it but I'll say this much - Shulk's spaced Nair is very hard to deal with. That is Shulk's Bread and Butter. He kills unusually early with Smash (I was killed around 70%).I don't see Shulk as a difficult match-up. His only annoying Arts is Jump.
I do think due to his damage per hit he does beat Mario, but it's 6:4 Shulk's advantage at worst.
I feel like his speed form leaves me helpless if he starts juggling me with his aerials, I'm not sure what to do against him to get kill pressure if he's in the air. I'm not reliably spiking him due to his Nair and Fair, Shulk's advancing Bair just cripples me and forces me to once again try to contest him off the ground which feels terrible for me.I don't want to give a ratio on it but I'll say this much - Shulk's spaced Nair is very hard to deal with. That is Shulk's Bread and Butter. He kills unusually early with Smash (I was killed around 70%).
If he uses the Weight Monado or whatever it's called at high percents I camp fireballs because he is ridiculously slow and we outspeed him. Any damage is good damage.
Buster is very scary, so if you can try to wait until the Monado Art times out.
Also Shulk players tend to fish for kills when they are in Smash, so try to fake an approach for them to read and punish.
I throw fireballs as much as I can, oh and Shulk's Nair negates fireballs.
Edit : Not unwinnable, but not even. 6:4 sounds about right if a ratio HAD to be given.
We can gimp him hard with FLUDD if he airslashes above the ledge so look out for that. When I get in on Shulk I SH Dair OoS and land behind him (usually forces a roll).
Also don't roll around Shulk, his Dsmash will catch you.
Don't roll towards him, if he jumps at you with speed chances are he isn't spacing it. Spot dodge the attack and follow up with up tilts (low percent) or some damage racking move (high Percents) or just plain kill him (kill percents).I feel like his speed form leaves me helpless if he starts juggling me with his aerials, I'm not sure what to do against him to get kill pressure if he's in the air. I'm not reliably spiking him due to his Nair and Fair, Shulk's advancing Bair just cripples me and forces me to once again try to contest him off the ground which feels terrible for me.
I'm not the best of Mario players either though. If you guys have any tips for the match up in specific then I'd really appreciate them. I have been using Cape/Fludd to gimp him or my spike to kill him but I don't really have a kill move that reliably works otherwise. Can I space our UpSmash to outrange anything he has? I feel like I only can punish him when I shield one of his smash attacks.
And having my roll screwed over by his D-Smash is painful but I'm getting okay at dodging + perfect shielding the hits. I'm not saying the match up was impossible for me either, the last few games I started 2 stocking him but I feel like it was him playing worse then he was at the start rather then me learning and beating him purely out of skill.
On the other hand though when we have momentum and are comboing him I feel extremely strong, I've been able to rack up near 40-70% without being touched with downthrow/downtilt into double up tilt uair/fairs. And when he's on the ground I like to use Mario's d-tilt to force him to restand so I can continue beating on him.
I think the biggest thing might just be spacing my fireballs correctly when I'm going in for a landing so I can regain control of the ground?
I also like running off the edge of the stage and jumping back up with bair, it doesn't exactly give me a ton of % but every little bit counts.
DI well and survive as long as possible. Throw fireballs, space a lot of aerials, and hope he runs into them. SAVE U-SMASH FOR KOs. If for any reason he D-smashes your shield, you can F-smash out of shield against that.Any tips against Pikachu? He's so quick! I can't help but get rocked
I completely agree. I had to switch to Rob vs a Weege Player in tournament tonight. It's not fun with Mario.Taking on Mr. ConCon's Luigi convinced me that Luigi has a very solid advantage against Mario.
I'm pretty sure Dtilt > KO Punch is guaranteedOk so I am new(last time I said this I did it in the wrong place but here it is)
I found this awesome thng to actually deflect the Villiger's tree,Lloyd,and bowling ball so all you do is time Mario's cape at the right time to deflect it (I discovered this in the demo of the 3ds version but now I have the full version so yay for me)
Works best on:omega stages
Note:I am working on how to make an unescapeable KO punch for little Mac
I actually haven't had much trouble with Diddy. Sheik on the other hand has really given me a hard time. I think it's safe to say that most will switch to a secondary more suited to a sheik MU but I think the jury is still out on DiddyI disagree, I find Shiek and Diddy to be much harder. I think Mario exploits Rosa's weakness pretty well when he gets in her space. She's still not very fast.
You evidently have forgotten how I play Mario and fighting games in general. I'm a very defensive player, and I also am very deliberate about intelligent move usage. It's why I've been very adamant about people using D-smash less, because it's bad in this game.Sometimes I wonder if you think Mario players are just full dashing into stuff.
I'll be frank. No one cares about how you play. All everyone cares about, especially in MU threads, is accurate information. If your playstyle does not account for Mario's strengths then you should either rethink your playstyle or rethink your character.You evidently have forgotten how I play Mario and fighting games in general. I'm a very defensive player, and I also am very deliberate about intelligent move usage. It's why I've been very adamant about people using D-smash less, because it's bad in this game.
You overstate the difficulty of getting past Marth's defense. Mario isn't forced to play defensively, he's just forced to not auto-pilot from aerial to aerial and he has to respect his options. Marth can Counter, attack, air dodge, or land on the ground. Three out of the Four of those options are beaten with Shield as an overall option. Landing on the ground is beaten by literally everything else. While Mario does have to guess what Marth is going to do, it's the same vise versa, and if Marth guesses wrong that is a substantial reward for Mario. If Marth guesses right he just resets the situation, because again he has no aggressive power in this game. The only legitimate thing he has against Mario is during neutrals, and that just means Mario has to be patient. We may not be able to hit him during the time but so can't Marth, and we have both fireballs and FLUDD to create opportunities without needlessly taking risks (and FLUDD does an amazing job at creating openings). Marth's defense is not difficult to get around. That's not even what gives him the advantage. What gives him the advantage is his damage and KO power with his tip mechanics.And you explained exactly why I believe the Marth matchup is terrible for Mario. You really don't have good capitalization options against Marth when he uses all his defensive options. He forces Mario to play a lot more defensively in more situations because Marth can stop a lot of Mario's pressure options with Counter, UpB, and his range. Landing a Smash against Marth is more difficult than it is against most characters, and in this game, we have a much harder time edgeguarding him when ledge invincibility was reworked.
Marth doesn't wall us in this game. He just has a much, much better risk/reward and has much less trouble confirming KOs most of the time. You are forced to airdodge or UpB very early against Marth's sword most of the time when recovering against him. Also he can edgeguard deceptively deep when you factor that his UpB actually gets good distance, and his sword, meaning he can pressure Mario in positions where your only hope is him not covering Double Jump + Airdodge.
I also want to say you can hit the can back at Duck Hunt and even better you can do it with fireballs. At that point DHD has to physically hit the can to send it anywhere. And I don't see how FLUDDing DHD off the stage should be taken as a negative.No offense, but if you get completely walled by Duck Hunt projectiles it's more of a failure on the player's part
than it is the character really. Sure, reflecting doesn't give optimal results, but why do that when it's way easier
to just leap and maneuver around them. If he tries to anti-air with can just move back and then continue
pressing forward once it falls, since he won't be able to immediately kick it again. Duck Hunt's projectile
game has plenty of openings, especially with a character as mobile as Mario. Stop playing him like
Ganon and trying to turtle and muscle your way in.
Jumping is a very good idea against Duck Hunt when you can contest none of his aerials directly and he basically gets a free grab if he positions correctly. If Mario had scary aerials to deal with, this would not be a terrible matchup, but he doesn't. You also seem to fail to realize that you just stated that Duck Hunt reliably takes away stage control from Mario by just simply throwing the can. That is precisely why the matchup is bad.No offense, but if you get completely walled by Duck Hunt projectiles it's more of a failure on the player's part
than it is the character really. Sure, reflecting doesn't give optimal results, but why do that when it's way easier
to just leap and maneuver around them. If he tries to anti-air with can just move back and then continue
pressing forward once it falls, since he won't be able to immediately kick it again. Duck Hunt's projectile
game has plenty of openings, especially with a character as mobile as Mario. Stop playing him like
Ganon and trying to turtle and muscle your way in.
And his attack speed is laughably slow compared to Mario. If he misses with almost anything with Mario close by there's a good chance he'll get punished. His tilts barely have more range than Mario's. He has good pokes in the air through Fair and Bair,
but they're very risky to use on ground opponents and have lag. So does Nair, especially if he lands in it. Uair
is his safest aerial, but also the lowest-ranged one and thus prone to being beaten by tornado, which sucks for him
since it's also one of his best kill moves. Plus, how is Duck Hunt hard to gimp? Grabbing the edge is the only
safe way he can come back if knocked far is to grab the edge. Good DH players may use the can to cover them,
but that isn't always available. Otherwise, you can hit them with almost anything when they use their up b. It's just
a matter of timing.
The can COUNTERS fireballs, just to clarify, and so do most of Duck Hunt's specials in general. Also moving up to hit the can is particularly dangerous when you factor short range, meaning your spacing has to be very precise for that to be an option.I also want to say you can hit the can back at Duck Hunt and even better you can do it with fireballs. At that point DHD has to physically hit the can to send it anywhere. And I don't see how FLUDDing DHD off the stage should be taken as a negative.