Mario and Weege's Down Special

[Raccoon Chuck]

Would you guy's consider decreasing the number of taps some. I learned to get the max height out of the move but it has always been a pretty tedious and frankly pointless skill. I would love to see a transition of the required tap rate to somewhere that doesn't strain you for trying to recover, like 64's.

 

[~Frozen~]

You'll be much more accepting of the taps amount after you try doing it with Melee Luigi.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

You'll be much more accepting of the taps amount after you try doing it with Melee Luigi.

Do not bring back such memories. All I can remember is Luigi flailing to a sad and pitiful end.

 

[Kally Wally]

Please add a "Meh" option to that poll, tia.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Do not bring back such memories. All I can remember is Luigi flailing to a sad and pitiful end.

Luigi will only fall if you haven't charged down B. Otherwise he gets more height than Mario per tap iirc.

 

[meow]

I started Luigi in Melee and could not break even with his Down-B.
In M I break even. (I am terrible at button mashing)
Since then I have gave up Luigi as my main and played Pit.
I think it's kinda dumb though that button mashing will give you a free recovery.
Some people are gifted and some people have turbo buttons
I am not and will not be buying a madcatz

 

[SpiderMad]

Luigi will only fall if you haven't charged down B. Otherwise he gets more height than Mario per tap iirc.

Can we just make a like "Do you know Smash?" quiz already? Especially for P:M with people not knowing how QAC was even changed from Brawl (I barely know)

It's pretty easy to get max height in P:M with Luigi/Mario, it's just annoying like a lot of things but it's not a struggle when you're in tournament or something and got anx to fuel you lol. One thing I don't do that's just TOO annoying AND just plain bad for your controller is breaking out of grabs (and Rest/Shield break type stuff like even supposedly ZSS' d-smash stun): because each input counts towards getting out but that makes the best method rotating your control stick like crazy (as well as trying to push as much random buttons) because each of the 8 or so diagonal directions counts as an input. Another thing that's also annoying is the Smash input for things like Samus' strong missile (which is supposedly the same input timing difference for Ivy and Diddy), I believe if possible to be changed would fit a much more comfortable preference for people if the input leaned towards giving the Smash input easier (with the downside of it now requiring more finesse for the weak input if you're very anxious/adrenaline filled).

Yeah so anyways, I am also the king of comfort: and believe that Light press air dodge is not only much more comfortable than hard press air dodge, but yields more potential and better play. I also believe having a hard press air dodge constitutes a hefty amount to the Smasher's hand pain various people often complain about [The Good Doctor, KishPrime, Hylian].

And my possibly even more radical opinion (though I regard light press air dodge to be higher priority to talk about) is having a buffer of one frame on. It allows pre-inserting your aerial before a jump allowing it to come out frame perfect (which only the top level pros can do consistently to the point that a lot of really cool stuff loses it's worth due to difficulty/consistency for anyone not on that level). A one frame of buffer also allows for other cool things as well as a higher level of good looking and comfortable play but it's my most radical view though not most important to me. Buffer concerning Wifi though is a different and slightly more important story.

 

[leelue]

Personally, I just think that it's not the kind of skill you should need to have to play your character.

 

[Kati]

^agreed.

But I've never had trouble with Samus' two missiles.

 

[Kink-Link5]

My personal experience with Samus in Brawl was that her regular missiles almost never came out. It seems way too loose of a "smash" input for the requirement of on-the-fly inputs.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

My personal experience with Samus in Brawl was that her regular missiles almost never came out. It seems way too loose of a "smash" input for the requirement of on-the-fly inputs.

I recall Brawl having a pretty large "Dead Zone", causing almost EVERY tilt dependent move to become a unintentional Smash. I'd love to see the touchiness of the Melee controls come back, if possible.
But for the matter at hand.....
Yeah, still not a fan of seeing a botched recovery based on a failed attempt to induce thumb-spasms. Luigi still has a pretty lackluster recovery without a good Cyclone to extend it.

 

[Vashimus]

SH Double missiles with Samus is pretty easy to get the timing down. I agree with Kinky though that Ivysaur's Razor Leaf is random when it comes to wanting the smash version or not. It's too loose

 

[_R@bid_]

^ This. I hate the inputs for smash/tilt Razor Leaf. I don't really like the idea of Smash inputs in the first place, either, but that is something that'll never change, so w/e.

 

[Paradoxium]

I have a turbo controller and not even that **** can make Mario fly, I also suck pressing b over and over so I think it would be better if it required less input.



Wobbling for 2.6! Lets make it happen.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Turbo sucks at legitimate mashing. It does an input about the equivalence of once every 3 or 4 frames. On a good, real human mash, twice that is achievable for a short period of time. The only thing turbo does better is mashing consistently over a long time- though at one point I wanted to see how well it did at even that, and was able to edge out the turbo by 3 hits in Mario Party 4's "Domination." It will always win at "Slime Time" though, due to its consistency.

Basically turbo isn't an indicator of real human mashing and is worse at it in short bursts.

 

[CORY]

also, make sure you point your stick the direction you want to move (including up!) while mashing. pretty sure not doing that just makes you sit there and feel dumb.

 

[SpiderMad]

Turbo sucks at legitimate mashing. It does an input about the equivalence of once every 3 or 4 frames.

That's really the max they can go?

also, make sure you point your stick the direction you want to move (including up!) while mashing. pretty sure not doing that just makes you sit there and feel dumb.

You sure holding up makes you go gain any more distance?

 

[CORY]

a little bit? i know in melee, i couldn't gain ANY height as doc. but i started making sure to not hold down and started to magically gain height. that's more what i'm trying to say, since that might be a fairly common mistake for people not gaining height,no matter how hard they mash.

 

[meow]

It makes me really happy to gain max height with tornado.
In training. At 1/2 speed.

 

[Vashimus]

That's really the max they can go?

Using turbo really doesn't help you in any kind of fighting game, compared to doing it yourself. Unless you play Dictator. You know you love to turbo that cr. LK.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes please, and in exchange, make Mario's hands less magnetic when grabbing the ledge. It looks silly.

Isn't it amazing how Mario can grab the ledge from 10 feet away, yet he can't grab a character from 2 inches away?

 

[Minor Pandemic]

I definitely mess up the mashing most of the time.

What if it were to go up for as long as you held the B button? Would that be too easy? I'm happy to trade my reverse up-B magnet hands for the ability to use my Down B properly.

 

[meow]

IMO if there would be a change so that this recovery would be easily accessible by everyone, then I think that the recovery should give 1/2 or 3/4 of the current maximum height

 

[Minor Pandemic]

IMO if there would be a change so that this recovery would be easily accessible by everyone, then I think that the recovery should give 1/2 or 3/4 of the current maximum height

Can I ask why you think this? Do you think that the mashing-minigame adds a valuable level of depth to the game, and if so, why? I hope this doesn't sound condescending, I just am not sure that the added difficulty is meaningful, and I'm curious why you might think otherwise.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I score OHKOs with Ike's Side Special more often than getting max height out of a 'nado! That's a problem. There is no valid reasoning for a move to be so difficult and uncomfortable to use; just to utilize some necessary horizontal momentum. (Scowls at De' Weege)

 

[meow]

Can I ask why you think this? Do you think that the mashing-minigame adds a valuable level of depth to the game, and if so, why? I hope this doesn't sound condescending, I just am not sure that the added difficulty is meaningful, and I'm curious why you might think otherwise.

I usually watch Vist and Eli playing Luigi (superb luigi players), and whenever they use tornado to recover they never gain max height, it's usually 1/2 (more or less). IMO PMBR kept the button mashing recovery to stop MOST players from utilizing a free 3rd recovery (at maximum height).

But that's my opinion and that's how I came up with my suggested "change"

 

[Minor Pandemic]

I usually watch Vist and Eli playing Luigi (superb luigi players), and whenever they use tornado to recover they never gain max height, it's usually 1/2 (more or less). IMO PMBR kept the button mashing recovery to stop MOST players from utilizing a free 3rd recovery (at maximum height).

But that's my opinion and that's how I came up with my suggested "change"

Okay, that makes sense

 

[_R@bid_]

I think the button mashing mechanic should just be eliminated. It's a needlessly complex and difficult input that strains controllers and fingers. If charge moves are being changed from double tapping to holding B, then why can't Weegee, Mario, and the upcoming MK hold B as well? It's stupid to make button mashing be a required skill to recover properly, when the time spent training it would be better spent learning the ins and outs of a character and advancing the metagame. This isn't Mario Party. And the height should be kept the same, or at least until testing shows his recovery to be too good, since Luigi's recovery isn't so good that he couldn't do with a bit of a buff. The distance is OK, but it's still very linear and predictable.

 

[Juushichi]

Yes please, and in exchange, make Mario's hands less magnetic when grabbing the ledge. It looks silly.

Isn't it amazing how Mario can grab the ledge from 10 feet away, yet he can't grab a character from 2 inches away?

I love this post so much I had to like and dislike it three times for emphasis.

 

[Hylian]

Can we just make a like "Do you know Smash?" quiz already? Especially for P:M with people not knowing how QAC was even changed from Brawl (I barely know)

It's pretty easy to get max height in P:M with Luigi/Mario, it's just annoying like a lot of things but it's not a struggle when you're in tournament or something and got anx to fuel you lol. One thing I don't do that's just TOO annoying AND just plain bad for your controller is breaking out of grabs (and Rest/Shield break type stuff like even supposedly ZSS' d-smash stun): because each input counts towards getting out but that makes the best method rotating your control stick like crazy (as well as trying to push as much random buttons) because each of the 8 or so diagonal directions counts as an input. Another thing that's also annoying is the Smash input for things like Samus' strong missile (which is supposedly the same input timing difference for Ivy and Diddy), I believe if possible to be changed would fit a much more comfortable preference for people if the input leaned towards giving the Smash input easier (with the downside of it now requiring more finesse for the weak input if you're very anxious/adrenaline filled).

Yeah so anyways, I am also the king of comfort: and believe that Light press air dodge is not only much more comfortable than hard press air dodge, but yields more potential and better play. I also believe having a hard press air dodge constitutes a hefty amount to the Smasher's hand pain various people often complain about [The Good Doctor, KishPrime, Hylian].

And my possibly even more radical opinion (though I regard light press air dodge to be higher priority to talk about) is having a buffer of one frame on. It allows pre-inserting your aerial before a jump allowing it to come out frame perfect (which only the top level pros can do consistently to the point that a lot of really cool stuff loses it's worth due to difficulty/consistency for anyone not on that level). A one frame of buffer also allows for other cool things as well as a higher level of good looking and comfortable play but it's my most radical view though not most important to me. Buffer concerning Wifi though is a different and slightly more important story.

When have I ever complained about hand pain o.O? I injured my index finger recently, but I use my index finger on the control stick(I play double claw) not the shoulder button. I use my middle finger for the shoulder button and it's never been hurt.

Here is a video of how I hold the controller for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcXrAAX-H4M

 

[SpiderMad]

How'd you injure it? For TGD he showed me his hands start to shake like crazy after a while from Smash, and KishPrime was from a post he made on an old chicago tournament thread: for you I was making a crazy guess after remembering you post something about your finger lol.

 

[Phaiyte]

I think it'd be best to just hold down B to get it to work. And obviously the position of the control stick will influence which way you go. That would make mario and luigi so much better and more comfortable to play with.