Mafia Royal Sleepover - The Party has been Crashed! Mafia Wins!

[Circus]

You, Swiss and Gova are my top picks for scum.

You've been seeming townier to me. GG if you're scum.

You're suggesting that we lynch Gova and then potentially lynch Swiss after him. Why wouldn't I be okay with that?

Though, like I said, I'm not going to back the lynch properly until Gova gets in here and gets a fair shake at at a defense.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Mm, but I didn't suggest that. I only suggested a Gova lynch.
You're prepared to lose if Gova is town?

 

[Gova]

What changed your opinion Nabe?

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm glad THAT'S what you decide to post Gova.

 

[Circus]

Mm, but I didn't suggest that. I only suggested a Gova lynch.

Which is what I said. :/ I'm not against a Gova lynch. I think he very well could be scum. And if we were to lynch Gova, and he were to flip scum, I would be willing to defend myself and push for Swiss' lynch. Do you have a problem with me agreeing with you?

I'm not prepared to mislynch. I'm not prepared to lynch Gova right now and just hope for the best. I'm merely saying that lynching Gova (later) seems like a relatively sound choice to me at this point in the game.

What makes you think Swiss could be Gova's scumbuddy now? You seemed pretty certain that wasn't a possibility before.

 

[Gova]

@J, Sorry for trying to track his thought process. I'll just leave forever now. Let me know when when I'm lynched so I can congradulate scum on their win. /sarcasm

 

[#HBC | J]

No, but you don't post any substance or even attempt to defend yourself when I have seen you viewing for quite some time.

If you are town, I wouldn't be sad about your ML.

 

[Gova]

I asked him why his opinion changed so I could defend myself. What am I supposed to say right now? "I'm not scum"? That'll do a lot of good.

 

[#HBC | J]

Why don't you tell us why we shouldn't lynch you, who we should lynch, who is the scum-team in your eyes, how are you town, what do you think of the posts toDay, what posts stick out to you from the entire game, etc.?

That'd be a good place to start.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What makes you think Swiss could be Gova's scumbuddy now? You seemed pretty certain that wasn't a possibility before.

Mm, I don't think that. But it certainly seems to be in both our best interests -- and I'm not in a position to be leading this game anyway.

Gova, it's posts just like those that make me want your lynch. I have a morbid interest. I wouldn't feel bad at all post-game, having ML'd you and letting scum win. And if you're scum, well shucks. I still think your posts show a town side, but your approach to games is ugly.

 

[Rockin]

Mafia Royal Sleepover

Nabe (1) - Chibo


Not Voting - Nabe, Circus, Swiss, Gova, J

It takes 4/6 to lynch. Deadline is March 31st, 2011

 

[Gova]

Gova, it's posts just like those that make me want your lynch. I have a morbid interest. I wouldn't feel bad at all post-game, having ML'd you and letting scum win. And if you're scum, well shucks. I still think your posts show a town side, but your approach to games is ugly.

I wouldn't feel bad about it either. Like I said earlier the scummiest person gets lynched, this includes myself. I don't understand what you mean by my posts have a town side but still wanting my lynch. If you're talking about me antagonizing J, I'm going to stop that. I am just frustrated with him. Anyways, about that reaching for Chibo, I'm positive he's town. Even though X1 never explicitily stated or Glyph from what I remember. X1 has been saying Chibo is town most of D1 and comparing his play to Bioware. It was probably the only way to get his town read on Chibo without outing himself without as his partner since the rest of town didn't seem to think Chibo was townie.

 

[Swiss]

Gova, who do you want lynched?

 

[#HBC | J]

Why don't you tell us why we shouldn't lynch you, who we should lynch, who is the scum-team in your eyes, how are you town, what do you think of the posts toDay, what posts stick out to you from the entire game, etc.?

That'd be a good place to start.

Gova, I do want answers for these ya know. I didn't ask them just to ask them.

 

[#HBC | J]

*bumpity bump bump*

Hello? >.> Where is everyone?

 

[Circus]

*bumpity bump bump*

Hello? >.> Where is everyone?

Yeah, seriously. I was kind of expecting to come back to more posts than this. Is Gova still semi-V/LA or whatever? I feel like we're kind of waiting on him to get in this game more.

To make this post a little more worth its space on the internet, I'll just say that a statement like this:

I wouldn't feel bad about it either. Like I said earlier the scummiest person gets lynched, this includes myself.

especially at this point in the game, is so scummy it's scary.

 

[#HBC | J]

You know what? I'm willing to risk it. There is no reason AT ALL to not lynch Gova.


Vote: Gova

 

[Circus]

Ehhhhh. Want more consensus on this. Chibo, Swiss, you feel alright with this? Gova, if you're capable of speaking up, this would be the time to do it.

 

[Gova]

Sup, J, Why am I scum? I have failed to see an explanation from you. Lol, as for your questions, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm town. I'm not going to make a case on why I'm town if that's what you're expecting. We should definitly lynch you, like the whole

Vote: J

and everything. The only noteable post today to me was when Nabe posted Gheb's color coded read list which from my POV means Gheb is definitely bussing his other two scum mates and that's why I have been having a hard time trying to make my mind up about the second scum mate. I still think it's likely Circus, though could be Nabe but I feel less likely that to be the case. Swiss is town and I'm sticking to that read as well.

Circus, when two scum when two scum are the only lynch choices for a day, and you're one of the scum that is a lynch choice, what do you do? Also, what do you think is scummy about me? Seems like you're willing to lynch me without a case, but you weren't willing to lynch Nabe without one. Kinda curious about this. Also, why is that statement scummy? I'm having a hard time pinning down my relative "scumminess" as I feel people have been flipping on whether I'm town or not all game. Also, what are the general reasons you find me scummy, and why do you think J finds me scummy?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hmm that arrogant bravado and ignoring my questions does not help your case at all.

Why won't you answer the questions if you are town?

 

[Gova]

I did answer the questions, it's not my fault if you don't read. How is there an "arrogant bravdo" quote it and show it to me. You're just insulting me for no reason, ie I think being called arrogant is an insult.

 

[#HBC | J]

So Gova your scum reads are Circus/J/Nabe?

What is the team? You have your vote on me so I must be one of them.

But which of Nabe or Circus is my partner? What do you think of the fact that both Nabe/Circus think I am town.

Why do you have a "solid" town read on Swiss that you are sticking to?

Gova, you honestly don't know WHY people think you are scummy?

 

[#HBC | J]

Why don't you tell us why we shouldn't lynch you, who is the scum-team in your eyes, how are you town, what do you think of the posts toDay, what posts stick out to you from the entire game, etc.?

That'd be a good place to start.

1.) Not answered.
2.) Scum-team not known but made vague.
3.) You refused to tell us why you are town.
4.) You didn't comment on the posts toDay besides one post that you thought you agreed with about Nabe pointing out your scumminess.
5.) You didn't point out any posts this game that strike you as odd and dodge it again.

I did answer the questions, it's not my fault if you don't read. How is there an "arrogant bravdo" quote it and show it to me. You're just insulting me for no reason, ie I think being called arrogant is an insult.

Well let me rephrase "arrogant" to simply not-caring and acting tough.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also if you want me lynched, present a case on me, show some effort, DO SOMETHING.

How about if you make a case on me I'll make a case on you? Sound fair?

 

[#HBC | J]

Or if I present a case on you, you present a case on me?

 

[#HBC | J]

Circus, when two scum when two scum are the only lynch choices for a day, and you're one of the scum that is a lynch choice, what do you do? Also, what do you think is scummy about me? Seems like you're willing to lynch me without a case, but you weren't willing to lynch Nabe without one. Kinda curious about this. Also, why is that statement scummy? I'm having a hard time pinning down my relative "scumminess" as I feel people have been flipping on whether I'm town or not all game. Also, what are the general reasons you find me scummy, and why do you think J finds me scummy?

This is the weirdest part of your entire post.

Did you know Circus was actually defending you and waiting on you to post something substantial before an affirmative action was taken? You also try and draw a very weak connection of Nabe/Circus by saying you think Circus is defending Nabe properly but not you.

 

[#HBC | J]

Did you know Circus has 100 posts and Gova only has 81.

I actually wanna do a side-by-side comparison. Circus came in at the beginning of D4 which was 14 days ago while Gova you have been here for pri much 2 months. Why does Circus have that many more posts than you? Also I wouuld like to point out that Circus' posts are not just tiny one liners that exceed Gova's but stuff that actually has material.

 

[Gova]

Sup, J, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm town, and that will be the only reason I will ever give you no matter how many times we play together. I'm not going to make a case on why I am town or tell you why ie #3. It's not going to help me find scum at all. I already know I'm town so I don't see the purpose of doing it. If you're having trouble deciding my alignment it would be on you to find why I am town or scum. Lol, I didn't agree to Nabe's post saying that I'm scummy, I just referenced it because it had a post by Gheb which I thought was important. Nice try though. Show how I'm "not caring" and "acting tough". I don't know why you continue to demean my person by saying I don't care about this game.

I said J/Circus to begin with, but I threw in Nabe because I have no idea what he's doing now with all the 180'ing sorta. I still find it less likely to be him but I just thought everyone should know. I don't have a solid read on Swiss, but I'm trying to cement my beliefs and so Swiss is town to me. Early D2 especially his post about trying to make a deal with OS that if Gheb flipped town that they should lynch you regardless. It's not a deal I think he'd make as scum. I don't know because Nabe hasn't really explained his reads yet and I just think Circus is wrong.

You should just present the case on me considering you haven't done one yet, and if you have tell me the post number.

 

[Gova]

Did you know Circus was actually defending you and waiting on you to post something substantial before an affirmative action was taken? You also try and draw a very weak connection of Nabe/Circus by saying you think Circus is defending Nabe properly but not you.

How is he defending me? I was more interested in the way he reacted to this. When Nabe was up for a lynch he was more interested in the case on Nabe, but this doesn't seem to be the case for my lynch. The bolded is a lie as well, I did not say Circus properly defended Nabe at all, I want to see why there is a distinction between us two.

 

[Gova]

Did you know Circus has 100 posts and Gova only has 81.

I actually wanna do a side-by-side comparison. Circus came in at the beginning of D4 which was 14 days ago while Gova you have been here for pri much 2 months. Why does Circus have that many more posts than you? Also I wouuld like to point out that Circus' posts are not just tiny one liners that exceed Gova's but stuff that actually has material.

Do none of my posts have content at all? If so, way to discredit me, and so far my one liners have only been there to antagonize you. Lol, if you're trying to use post count to determine alignment.

 

[#HBC | J]

[Collapse=Day 1 - Gova]

Vote: Kuz

Also, we need to have a pillow fight obv. Mandatory at any sleepover imo.

How many of you are of the mindset that nothing is truly useless in a game of mafia? I'm asking because I haven't played with a lot of you before so I want to know how you all think.

@Tom, wrt to your #58 do you feel we should give the same treatment to J even though he has declared V/LA?

@Zen, how is Kuz role claiming not detrimental to town especially if he claimed this early?

@OS, what constitutes a stupid question? Would you answer a stupid question if someone feels that they could better determine your alignment based off it?

You could out a PR for essentially no reason, or limit the search pool for scum to PR hunt if he claims Vanilla Townie.

Why not just pressure him if you think he's scum and have him claim when he is closed to being lynched? Is there a benefit to having him role/char claim this early?

To clarify,I mean, in the event that he is close to being lynched because people think he is scum that he could just claim then instead of doing it this early when there really is no reason to.

@OS, how useful a question is is dependant on the person. Someone could ask what they feel is an important question while you however feel it is not. I wasn't trying to trip you up in some sort of word phrasing.

@Zen, what alignment would J be if he wanted you lynched? How would you distinguish townKuz not wanting your lynch from scumKuz not wanting your lynch since you said as town he could go either way. You should also answer Kuz's queston about how readable he is.

@FF, like I said earlier, I haven't played with a lot of you so I wanted to know how most of you think by seeing whether or not you all think most things in-game can be used to find scum. I think most things in-game can be used to find scum barring stuff like confirmation posts when, or if there is a confirmation phase.

@X1, whats the difference between cautiousScum and cautiousTown? And why do you think DH is cautiousScum over cautiousTown? It's not like every single person can play recklessly imo.

Well, coincidentally, or ironicly lol, my question became the situation I described where I asked a question I thought was important while he thought it was useless. I feel that if he were scum he would have just completely brushed off my question saying it was useless instead of going into detail about it, and so I have town read on OS though I don't like his reason for attacking Kuz based on a posting restriction which he may or may not have. I'd be more wary of the fact that Kuz hasn't really posted anything of importance or if he has I can't remember it. I'll leave him as town for now though.

As for Zen, I feel like he thinks backwards about claiming and I can see his reasoning for just having PR's claim to limit the lynch pool to find scum but I just don't feel it's as effective as just claiming when someone is about be lynched because outing PR's takes away town's night game. The only thing I feel he did scummy was try to make a deal/plan or w/e in 109 but even then I don't feel like he's scum. He's null to me right now.

The question to Tom I answered myself. OS and J's situations aren't similar as J has requested V/LA and in my confusion I thought they were similar as I see J on aim and posting in other threads and so I felt that he wasn't really V/LA and was probably just avoiding this game.

Ah, I've been reading Homestuck lol.

Anyways, is there something particular you want my thoughts on about 256? It doesn't really stand out to me that much, like I probably wouldn't lynch him off that but I can see where you're getting your scum vibe from if there you are getting one. I personally don't think Kuz/FF/DH are all scum based on their interactions unless their gameplan was like to distance themselves in something akin to a triangle where DH votes Kuz, Kuz votes FF, and FF votes DH.

Uh can you explain your town read on Zen? I'm still having trouble deciding on his alignment. And lol if you put a vote on me with this "Hmm I wonder what this will do" kinda defeats the purpose of the vote because I'd just take it as you looking for a reaction. If its just a random vote then I could care less and if it's because you think I'm scum you'll have to explain your reasoning sooner or later.




Confused about this. So you don't think DH/FF/Kuz are scum together then right?

I love how you're putting words in my mouth. /end sarcasm.

All you're doing is putting me into a situation where if I don't comply with you it makes me scum, which is in of itself is dumb because then If I don't agree with you, you will probably call me scum. And just because I'm not voting someone doesn't mean I'm opposed to their lynch. And I just previewed and saw DH claim...

J, I just checked the Dgames mafia and all the safe claims were Vanilla Townie. How is that strong at all unless you meant the character claims?

Yes. I don't know why you would say clear instead of town read but either way I'm still skeptical. It just reminds me of FF6 where you had a town read on Vand.



He's townie to me right now. I'm mostly just seeing if he falls back into that style of play he did in YT where he comments on things he think town should do but never follow up on it.


@FF, part of your 389 about DH is wrong. DH actually requested a vote count before voting.










What's with the flip? After DH claimed you still called him scum but now you don't want him lynched?

Are you agreeing with this? If you are, why are you purposely trying to mess up your connections with the other players if you're town?

I could see this, but I could also see the fact that Rockin mispelled it considering how prone he is to spelling errors.





@Swiss, Princess Shokora fits the flavor. I googled it after DH corrected his spelling mistake.

@Swiss, who do you want my stances on? I gave a couple already that I think are pretty clear but on the off chance you mean someone other than those persons.




Uh you might find this in your reread but J asked who that princess was on the start of page 10 and that might have caused DH to reread his PM or something.

Well, previewed post to find that Kuz might have been hammered. Anyways, here are my some of my stances/thoughts.

OS - town
Gheb - town
Kuz - town (for his claim only)
DH - town (for his claim only)
Zen - town, moving him up because I agree with his stance of FF

Swiss - null
Nabe -null, right now anyways.

J - I didn't really like the way he came into the game after being V/LA. Like someone pointed out earlier he just came in and asked others to ask him questions and it felt to me like he was trying to make some people look bad when they just ignored him. I thought he would be scum if Kuz is because of his defence of Kuz saying he was bad at D1 play but that fell through now that he has claimed Doc. I guess he's null to me for now.

Chibo - I could possibly see being scum. Zen asking for Kuz to name claim wasn't scummy, at least to me it wasn't but the motives for asking weren't clear and so it was a great chance to determine Zen's alignment off it but it got muddled by his I think his 109. I can't see any reason for Zen to be scum other than that and so I feel like he was just trying to get Zen lynched because it was easy to.

X1 - I get the feeling he knows more that he should. He called Kuz out as being town earlier and it just made me uneasy. The flip flop with Kuz doesn't really help either.

FF - From his posts, I get the feeling he is more focused on defending himself than he is with scum hunting. I get the feeling he knew Zen's alignment before hand and I didn't like the way he tried to make it look like Zen was faking a posting restriction.

Mentos - The same reasons I decided to stay on Kuz after voting him in RVS, I can't tell what he thinks about anyone.



For the Kuz paragraph, just becuase that is something he would do has no effect on his alignment. Also, I read that game and Kuz fake hammered there if IIRC which is way different than actively avoiding the thread and lying as town.

For the Swiss paragraph, that seems hypocritical of you especially since you didn't make a catch up post so I can't tell what you think of the early part of the day whereas he at least said what he thought on some of the posts.



How? I haven't played FF2 before.

Your early reads could have been helpful. They might not be now but it would have been good to have them I think when you came back from V/LA. How are we thinking alike? I'm pretty sure some of our reads differ. Also I answered the questions at the bottom of that post, the only problem might be it's not "extensive" enough for you.

Left multiquote on accidentally lol

It feels weird having to choose between the two but I guess if there is no other choice I'd rather go Kuz.

Unvote: Vote Kuz

L-2 by my count.

@Gheb,J, what differentiates townChibo tunneling on Zen from scumChibo tunneling on Zen?

Lol, you've been hinting that Nabe has a PR and you asked me to claim last page.

And make sure you read the result correctly.

I can't meta you off of aim mafia! Everything there happens in real time so it's easier to see your intentions when you're town or scum. In forum, scum have plenty of time to mask their intentions and it makes everyone more difficult to read.

[/Collapse]

Kuzi - Lynched
FF - NK'd

[Collapse=Day 2 - Gova]

I thought it was interesting actually. I didn't notice that Gheb and J were acting as juxtapositions to each other. My question though is, are the flip implications only linear? Like for example could J -> Me, Gheb, Me -> Gheb, J, Gheb -> J, Me? Because if it is linear are you're setting town up for at least 1 mislynch. This is all going on the fact that Gheb is scum it seems like, but what if Gheb/J/ gets lynched today and is town? What happens to your plan then?

Also, you said Gheb outed his scummates I think? I didn't quite see where that was in your post. Could you single it out for me?



The first line is very true.

The second line was taken out of context. Zen thought I was scum and J was just just reaffirming Zen's stances. That's how I saw it anyways.

That's because I'm not scum, so I removed it.

You should point this out actually. Considering all I said was that his "case" was interesting and asked him a few questions about it. Is the post you said you were gonna make in twilight going to be included in this upcoming post that you mentioned or is just the same one?

I was going to respond to it regardless if he had asked me to or not.

Seriously? I guess I could have not asked him anything. To answer your question though I asked because I want to find out what he is thinking. I guess null isn't a stance to you so I will just tell you that I think you are scum and would be ok with your lynch. Also, why did you want me to talk about you yesterDay? What purpose would that have served?

My posts on what? I wasn't aware that I was making a post specifically for you. Could you answer my questions from 977?

K, so here they are.

J - So my biggest problem with you is your town read on Kuz. It makes no sense to me because your logic is self-fulfilling imo. Kuz is himself and anything he does is something that he would do so it has no affect on his alignment and it bugs me how you could see him town for that espically since he was prod-dodging/coasting/inactive or whatever you want to call it and not really adding content till the wagon built up against him. It just feels to me like you might have known Kuz's alignment before hand. The way you came into the game didn't sit well with me either. Also, again, why did you want me to talk about you? Other than that I really have nothing agianst you which why I had you at null.

OS -

Lol, you think I'm scum based on someone else's play? You don't sound as confident when it comes to me. Surely if you think I'm scum there must be some reason for it, instead you just tried to justify it by calling me scum based on someone else's play. I still think you're town for now but your case just isn't that convincing.

Mentos - You haven't taken a stance yet this game have you? Can't say there's much to talk about with regards to you because you're sorta non-existant but you're falling into the prod-dodging and stancless pattern Kuz did yesterDay imo. I would be fine with your lynch.

Nabe - Lol, I don't really have anything to say about you either considering you're inactive. All you've done is openly admit to parroting Swiss and then kinda disappeared. Would be ok with your lynch too.



You might as well explain your 180. What made you think I was town originally?

Gheb - Well, most of my read is kinda based on meta, from YT, where he was indy so he could actually scum hunt, but his posts were rather shallow in that game after a re-read of it and basically consisted of buddying an obv-town and suggesting things town should do but never actually follow up on his own suggestion, which I said earlier that I would be watching him for and, I don't feel he has done that. I guess I might be wrong but I'm still going to consider him town at least for the time being.

X1 - Like I said earlier, I didn't like how you called Kuz out as town for no reason and then flipped on him later in the day though, I can't tell if you were just being antagonistic to OS and didn't take your read seriously but that has been bugging me. I'm also having trouble finding reasoning for your stances. Null as well.

Swiss - You're still null to me. I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other for your alignment.

DH - He's town to me for his claim still.

Chibo - Lol, I forgot you were in the game. I can't remember who you think is scum at all. I had you at null originally and your mason claim hasn't done much to change it.

Zen - I don't know what to think of you now. I guess town still since I agree with some of your stances. Kinda confused on why you think Gheb is scum. Do you just agree with OS' case or is there something else?

By self-fulfilling its akin to the "you're scum because you're scum" reasoning. Anything Kuz does is something he would do and because of that it has no effect on his alignment and you found him town for it, which I don't like. It's like saying Swiss is town because he would lie as town. It's like saying you're town because you would AtE as town. I'm not denying the meta, it's just simply meta that I think can't be used to determine alignment. Well, I've been giving my stances as I felt necessary but when someone asks you for something, your actions will be attributed to them asking you and there isn't much you can do about it. You've misunderstood my logic but you should explain was this "telling bonehead move" is. The first question in answered already with regards to why I don't like how you found Kuz town. As for the second question, you came into the game asking other people to ask you questions which I feel is scummy. It allows you to skirt things that happened earlier in the day. Yes. You should answer why you wanted me to talk about you. What purpose would that have served? I'm quite curious because I don't see any benefit for town to ask a question like that because it could only benefit yourself. You also referenced one of my posts as OS' which I will get to later.

There is no depth here. I can re-word so maybe you understand. "It's similar to saying you're scum because I say you are." It's self-fulfilling. I used it that way first because it was in that big post you made so I figured you would understand what I meant.



They aren't contricatory. I agree it is something that Kuz might do but not something you could determine his alignment from. Show me the bolded. I don't think you can because it's not true. As for the underlined, I am not fence sitting. I am clearly saying that I don't believe that you could have gotten a town read based on what you said. You should show me where I'm trying to dissuade others from using meta, even if I disagree with it because I'm not. If I disagree, it means I think you're wrong and/or lying.



"J, give me your stances on every person in the game." Now you can't do it of your own volition and when or if you give your stances it will be because someone asked you to and not because you wanted to. /example.



Actually I did but I'll rephrase it so maybe it is easier to understand. I feel that you might have known Kuz' alignment based on the fact that you found him town for reasons I don't believe you should have been able to.



I'm not insinuating anything. I just don't see a reason for a townie to do that which is why I asked you for one.



You quoted a post I made, but referenced said quote as "posted by OS".

The thing about crumbs is dumb to me. I can't see anyone actively searching out words or phrases even with ctrl+f.

@Glyph, what exactly about OS' case was convincing to you?

@Nabe, earlier when you mentioned J was playing similar to BaF, we're you implying that he was scummy? Confused about this because you said you've thought J was town earlier in the game. Also, how has Gheb's play become increasingly scummy? I thought you said he was townie earlier toDay as well.




This is wrong imo. You should want all information to be correct regardless of how important you think it is. Mis-information is more dangerous than no information after all.




If two players had a system where they could determine that the other was town before the game started, they would be cheating. Unless of course their role's allow them to talk before the game starts and are confirmed town to each other via role PM. I was in no way trying to dissuade you from using meta. I did not say, "J stop using meta." I am simply stating my opinion that I don't like the reasons for which you found him town.




Of course not but, the quote below does.



I assume by "holds no air" that my opinion is worthless to you. In that case, I can't ever offer input like you want me to since it would be worthless anyways. If I don't have my opinion what am I supposed to contribute with?



No, at least not with that. If I want to call you scum I would just openly state it. It's not that hard. I'm just quoting myself where I posted it originally so you can see.

[/Collapse]

No-Lynch
NK - OS

[Collapse=Day 3 - Gova]
Lol none whatsoever
[/collapse]

Lynch - Gheb
NK - DH

[Collapse=Day 4 - Gova]

I'm Princess Elincia, Vanilla Townie.

Zen, what was your logic for thinking that whoever didn't claim mason out of the two of us was scum?

I didn't have a strategy. YT and Newbie 9. KSSU. I keep playing Revenge of Meta Knight as prep for my next small game. Well at first at thought Glyph but he's the only one that hasn't claimed yet which mean he should be the mason. If he's not then Chibo. I'm still fine with J going. I read the flavor but I can't remember it without going back to read it.

Oh you. It was one of three people actually. Remember that time when you were V/LA for a lot of Day 1? Also, you should be glad I wasn't online otherwise you wouldn't be here toDay. Dang, I can't be unsure about someone's alignment?

As for scum picks? You and I guess Nabe. I just don't like the way you react/respond to people and it comes off as really scummy to me. Nabe is more of a suspicion really. D2 he thought Gheb was town and then does a 180 when Gheb claimed FF. He also said Gheb was increasingly scummy with AtE and stuff but when I read through it, the discussion kinda felt more focused on the claim and not the AtE and it just feels off to me.


Kinda skimmed the thread, few things that stick out to me.



Looking back this is probably why I felt X1 knew too much. It was because he is the other mason. This reminds me though, Nabe why did you want Peach to claim?



This is Swiss' reaction to OS' case. This looks like Swiss trying to strike a deal with OS in which he would lynch Gheb in exchange for J the next day to me. Knowing now that Gheb is scum I don't think Swiss as his scum mate would have reacted this way. I feel that Swiss is town.



This is Zen's reaction to OS' case. The only thing that bugs me is Zen saying that OS could be right when Zen hadn't provided reasoning for his vote yet. I guess this is really more me and not liking votes before reasonings though. Zen is probably town too.



This is J's reaction to OS' case. Not much to say other than he pretty much discredited right away. I think Gheb did the same thing too? In retrospect now that Gheb has flipped scum OS' case is pretty solid.

Wow, you are such a liar. Back this up with a quote. I doubt you'll be able to. Also what is scum-hunting to you?



Why is that? And you should have just spelled it correctly the first time.

Oh man, the irony is killing me.

Like figuratively killing me.

I'm dying.

It's hypocritcal of you, not of me, because you called me out on supposedly doing this but then you go ahead and do it yourself.

I love how you think post count determines anything. Plus this isn't about post count, it's about you saying I openly refused to post unless asked a question or something and then you go ahead and openly state you won't post because you're watching Ouran or something.

Nabe, why did you want Peach to claim and how did you know she was even in this game? Did you just assume it? Also, I had a tough time with your transition with regards to your stance on Gheb. You thought he was town for a while but then when he claimed FF you thought he was scum? How did you get to that conclusion? Also you said Gheb was scummy with his increasing AtE but I felt like the bulk of your posts dealt with his FF claim and not the AtE. Which one did you find him more scummy for?

J show me where I state that I openly refuse to post unless it deals with me. It's because you lie like that, that I find you scummy.

The bolded is a lie. That's what I'm showing you, if it was true you would be able to back it up.

Yeah it's because you don't want to by a hypocrite obv.

@Nabe

I thought so too actually, considering Rockin made himself scum in his last game. I actually didn't think Peach would be in the game though because she's supposed to be hosting the event but this is just flavor stuff. Anyways this clears up my suspicions about you w.r.t bussing Gheb via FF claim because your 180 was out of the blue imo. Also you've claimed the only villain so far which strikes me as a bit odd. I don't remember Queen Bean much. Does she turn good afterwards or something?

I will not hesitate to spoil Ouran for you.

Assuming you and Nabe are town, I would say Zen is the next most likely candidate for being Gheb's scummate mostly for this post.





That screams bussing to me honestly. Also factoring Gheb's arrogance or w/e on D3, I take he is putting a lot of trust in his scum team which means it's either someone we find town or Glyph/Chibo who pulled off the mason fakeclaim but this is just speculation.



Oh and telling me to go die isn't?

This was your last question. I answered it. You laughed at me. What didn't I answer?

I thought 1690 was rhetorical. Regardless it's my vote and I'm not using it right now so you can deal with it. It honestly doesn't matter when I get on a wagon as long as my reasons for doing so are sound, which goes the same for everyone else.

I already told you why w.r.t Nabe/J. Click back a page and you should be able to find it. How do you know they are the two easiest bandwagons? It's subjective anyways. Would matter if I was on the easy bandwagon and that person flipped scum? I'm not doubting anything but you asked me for my scum picks when I already gave them so I gave you something else that I think is plausable since apparently that didn't work for you. Circus is probably town, if he's not he made really sincere coming into game post that fooled me completely. My initial reaction towards Swiss is town but I could be swayed maybe, I'm not really sure. Probably you imo.

Also if you could be so kind as to point me to where your stances are and the reasoning for them, or if it hasn't been posted yet please do because the last of your stances that I remember is Nabe/Me and the others had to do something with meta I think and I want to see if that's changed any.

It didn't come out the way I intended. If you click the link to your quote you quoted him saying that he wouldn't take any connections from your flip as legitamate.

This is what I meant.

Like see this is what I mean, why has your opinion on his slot changed? What has he done?

I'm not misconstruing what you're saying. You keep saying I have to take a stance on people when I'm telling you I'm not sure because I could see things that implicate a person either way. I'm not even being arrogant, nor am I putting you down.



Your reactions to peoples accusations and responses make me think you're scum and the fact that you lie. Speaking of lies you still haven't shown where I openly stated that I will only post when someone asks me a question or talking about me.

I have a weak town tell on him for his reaction post to OS' case. And that's what I meant by I could be swayed maybe.
Zen is still town to me, that was in a scenario where you are town/flip town.
Nothing honestly, the reason I think he's town came from Mentos willing to be the D1 lynch.
I was suspicious of him because I felt like he knew too much, and hey turns out I was right as he ended up being the mason.
Uh I don't really. I keep forgetting he's in this game. Might as well be town since he claimed mason.
Nothing, I was just confused by his 180 on Gheb during D2 which he clarified for me toDay. What do you find him scummy for if at all?

Are you serious? Because once agian I assumed the questions are rhetorical. Like my first sentence in this reply its rhetorical. I don't actually expect you to say whether or not you're serious. Besides going into why I thought your questions and whether or not I'm serious is a irrelevent to scum hunting imo unless you can tell me why it would be.

No, sometimes they just aren't worth answering because I don't see how it helps the person find scum.

Confessing to what?

That's no where close to what I said. I said I won't answer them if I don't see the question's relenvance to scum hunting. I.E I won't answer the question "How are you feeling right now?". If you could explain to me why the question is important then I would answer it.

Also, you still have no shown where I openly admitted to only posting when asked questions or when someone talks about me.

I should really just quote myself agian. I am not refusing to answer them if you could explain their relevence to scum hunting. Refusal is kinda just flat out not answering it regardless of anything.

Ignoring != refusing.

What was your question?

Ok, the quotes below are for refence basically. It's bussing/distancing on Gheb's part not yours. He says he won't take any connections related to your flip as legit. He had no reason to say this as town but he flipped scum, meaning he was trying to stop your connections with other players by discrediting your accusations/interactions because he was either 1) your scummate and didn't want your lynch to be connected to him when it was a very possible lynch or 2) someone you interacted with/made a case on was his scum mate and in the event that you got lynched would stop town from looking at that player.

Oh, well I guess I can scrap that idea then. Sorry about that.

Same to you. Please humour me and tell me what your reads and the reasonings for them are or at least point me to where they are.

@Circus

I think Swiss was referring to when J asked me to meta him near the end of D1. Also, with regards to J defending Kuz, do you beleive J is town just because he defended Kuz? What about his logic in determining Kuz's alignment? Do you agree with it and what exactly do you agree/disagree with? Did you read my response to that logic? We had an arguement about it during D2 where I said I didn't beleive he could find Kuz as town based on his logic.

You're very convincing.

@Circus

Ok, well I know Kuz just as well as J, so what about my logic did you disagree with? Or a better question is, when someone fakes a posting restriction in order to look scummy, what is your first thought on their alignment?

@Zen

Regarding your list, what about plausibility of being Gheb's partner? Or did you do one of those already?



Is there something wrong with that post? Is there something you want my thoughts on? If you think I have should have something more to say then there must be something you want my opinion on.

I mean I know Kuz just as well as you know Kuz, not I know Kuz just as well as you.

The thing is though, Kuz is known to gambit as scum and as town, which is why I said it was a null tell on Kuz's part. If J knew that Kuz would do something like this, I don't think he would find him town for it which was my main concern at the time.

@Zen, could you answer Chibo's question about you being "clear" and Swiss' question.

@Chibo, what post number is your case on Nabe? I'm not sure where it is in thread.

@Swiss, why are you not sold on Zentown?

Uh, this is probably the first time I've explicitily said it, but I've been saying it should be a null tell.

[/Collapse]

Glyph Modkilled
NK - Zen

[Collapse=Day 5 - Gova]

I'm still on V/LA but I didn't get to post it in here because it was night phase. Catching up on my other game too.

J, Nabe explained why, I think, in that post with all his notes. All you've said is that you're confident that I'm scum. Still don't recall why you want me dead. I think there are other things I missed too not relating to this. This is just stuff I remember off the top of my head.

So why is not ok for other people to find you scummy when you came into the game back from V/LA? I remember getting flak for that. I think somone else did too not sure.

@Nabe, still J.

Circus, honestly. I still think Swiss is town based on early D2, and you cleared my suspicious up with regards to his claim. That post that Gheb color coded also means that he was distancing his scum mates seeing as everyone in white is dead/confirmed town, leaving everyone in orange. The thing Gheb started with J about him having contradicting reads is also a great way to fake contribute imo and sticks out more now that I think about it.

No, would rather NL since it's mylo.

Oh right, I forgot about Chibo lol. I would be okay with it I guess, would prefer J though because I feel like I have a stronger read on him than Circus.

Wow, I'm dumb why didn't they kill Chibo last Night then after Glyph's modkill? I'd still be ok with a NL too.

I was just expressing my surprise after you said we shouldn't NL because Chibo would be killed but then I realized it didn't matter because they could have killed him last Night anyways.

What changed your opinion Nabe?

@J, Sorry for trying to track his thought process. I'll just leave forever now. Let me know when when I'm lynched so I can congradulate scum on their win. /sarcasm

I asked him why his opinion changed so I could defend myself. What am I supposed to say right now? "I'm not scum"? That'll do a lot of good.

I wouldn't feel bad about it either. Like I said earlier the scummiest person gets lynched, this includes myself. I don't understand what you mean by my posts have a town side but still wanting my lynch. If you're talking about me antagonizing J, I'm going to stop that. I am just frustrated with him. Anyways, about that reaching for Chibo, I'm positive he's town. Even though X1 never explicitily stated or Glyph from what I remember. X1 has been saying Chibo is town most of D1 and comparing his play to Bioware. It was probably the only way to get his town read on Chibo without outing himself without as his partner since the rest of town didn't seem to think Chibo was townie.

Sup, J, Why am I scum? I have failed to see an explanation from you. Lol, as for your questions, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm town. I'm not going to make a case on why I'm town if that's what you're expecting. We should definitly lynch you, like the whole

Vote: J

and everything. The only noteable post today to me was when Nabe posted Gheb's color coded read list which from my POV means Gheb is definitely bussing his other two scum mates and that's why I have been having a hard time trying to make my mind up about the second scum mate. I still think it's likely Circus, though could be Nabe but I feel less likely that to be the case. Swiss is town and I'm sticking to that read as well.

Circus, when two scum when two scum are the only lynch choices for a day, and you're one of the scum that is a lynch choice, what do you do? Also, what do you think is scummy about me? Seems like you're willing to lynch me without a case, but you weren't willing to lynch Nabe without one. Kinda curious about this. Also, why is that statement scummy? I'm having a hard time pinning down my relative "scumminess" as I feel people have been flipping on whether I'm town or not all game. Also, what are the general reasons you find me scummy, and why do you think J finds me scummy?

I did answer the questions, it's not my fault if you don't read. How is there an "arrogant bravdo" quote it and show it to me. You're just insulting me for no reason, ie I think being called arrogant is an insult.

Sup, J, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm town, and that will be the only reason I will ever give you no matter how many times we play together. I'm not going to make a case on why I am town or tell you why ie #3. It's not going to help me find scum at all. I already know I'm town so I don't see the purpose of doing it. If you're having trouble deciding my alignment it would be on you to find why I am town or scum. Lol, I didn't agree to Nabe's post saying that I'm scummy, I just referenced it because it had a post by Gheb which I thought was important. Nice try though. Show how I'm "not caring" and "acting tough". I don't know why you continue to demean my person by saying I don't care about this game.

I said J/Circus to begin with, but I threw in Nabe because I have no idea what he's doing now with all the 180'ing sorta. I still find it less likely to be him but I just thought everyone should know. I don't have a solid read on Swiss, but I'm trying to cement my beliefs and so Swiss is town to me. Early D2 especially his post about trying to make a deal with OS that if Gheb flipped town that they should lynch you regardless. It's not a deal I think he'd make as scum. I don't know because Nabe hasn't really explained his reads yet and I just think Circus is wrong.

You should just present the case on me considering you haven't done one yet, and if you have tell me the post number.

How is he defending me? I was more interested in the way he reacted to this. When Nabe was up for a lynch he was more interested in the case on Nabe, but this doesn't seem to be the case for my lynch. The bolded is a lie as well, I did not say Circus properly defended Nabe at all, I want to see why there is a distinction between us two.

Do none of my posts have content at all? If so, way to discredit me, and so far my one liners have only been there to antagonize you. Lol, if you're trying to use post count to determine alignment.

[/Collapse]

I'll get to doing one on Circus next.

But everyone should look over all of these posts that Gova has made throughout the game and remember the days that these happened on. I'll be writing up a summary on pri much the entire bulk of these posts but re-reading them only affirms my scum read on Gova.

 

[#HBC | J]

Sup, J, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm town, and that will be the only reason I will ever give you no matter how many times we play together. I'm not going to make a case on why I am town or tell you why ie #3. It's not going to help me find scum at all. I already know I'm town so I don't see the purpose of doing it. If you're having trouble deciding my alignment it would be on you to find why I am town or scum. Lol, I didn't agree to Nabe's post saying that I'm scummy, I just referenced it because it had a post by Gheb which I thought was important. Nice try though. Show how I'm "not caring" and "acting tough". I don't know why you continue to demean my person by saying I don't care about this game.

I said J/Circus to begin with, but I threw in Nabe because I have no idea what he's doing now with all the 180'ing sorta. I still find it less likely to be him but I just thought everyone should know. I don't have a solid read on Swiss, but I'm trying to cement my beliefs and so Swiss is town to me. Early D2 especially his post about trying to make a deal with OS that if Gheb flipped town that they should lynch you regardless. It's not a deal I think he'd make as scum. I don't know because Nabe hasn't really explained his reads yet and I just think Circus is wrong.

You should just present the case on me considering you haven't done one yet, and if you have tell me the post number.

@Bolded: You seriously need to re-evaluate how you play this game. Your train of thought is just horrible and is ALL about you and how you are 100% right. You do know this game is a game of persuasion right? You have to persuade us WHY someone is scum and persuade us WHY we should trust you/believe you are town. Your point falls on deaf ears as well since you have been not really scum-hunting at all or putting your own neck on the line. Again, WHY should we believe you?

So you are refusing to present a case on me until I present one on you?

How is he defending me? I was more interested in the way he reacted to this. When Nabe was up for a lynch he was more interested in the case on Nabe, but this doesn't seem to be the case for my lynch. The bolded is a lie as well, I did not say Circus properly defended Nabe at all, I want to see why there is a distinction between us two.

Please read and quit lurking.

Do none of my posts have content at all? If so, way to discredit me, and so far my one liners have only been there to antagonize you. Lol, if you're trying to use post count to determine alignment.

I am not using post count to determine alignment, I am using the CONTENT located within the amount of posts. Honestly, looking back at your posts, there are no stellar or good town point posts. I'll save most of this for when I get to it.

 

[#HBC | J]

[Collapse=Day 4 - Circus]

Yessssss. I finally get to play.

Dark Horse was a predictable pick. Rest in peace, sir.

Vote: Swiss

Swiss needs to die toDay. Or Glyph. But preferably Swiss first.

Would like to see more output from Nabe and Gova, particularly Gova.

Probably would also be cool with learning who Chibo's partner is at this point in the game, but it doesn't need to happen if the rest of the town isn't comfortable with that.

Yeah, I had already been reading the game kind of casually before. Started digging into things more deeply once Rockin put me in.

I decided to replace in because 1) I like Rockin and 2) I like mafia and haven't played it in a while.

I didn't really care which side I got, though I have extremely little experience as scum, so I suppose I was hoping more for town for the sake of familiarity. But I thought I was actually going to get scum, since I was replacing Mentos. Thankfully, my initial impression of him was wrong.

Swiss and Glyph are my top scum picks right now largely to do with the pretty much everything that happened on D3. Swiss' 1489 to Gheb's 1495 screams scum bussing to me. In addition to that, he pushed hard on a lynch of our un-CC'd town doctor (still don't understand how that ****ing went through). Glyph, on D3, basically struck me as scum waffling on whether or not to hard distance a buddy. He was reluctant to throw his vote on Gheb at first, but then made up his mind to do so right before Gheb self-hammered. I imagine Gheb and his other scummate (Swiss?) got him to vote so that he would be on Gheb's wagon, and then Gheb hammered himself to end the Day with his buddy/buddies looking clearer.

Regardless, Only 4 people voted for Gheb that Day (other than Gheb himself), and I highly, highly doubt Gheb would have hammered himself without making sure at least one of his scummates was on his wagon. That pretty much puts the list at Swiss, Glyph, you and Chibo. And I get more townie vibes from you and Chibo.

Still, I don't want to tunnel, so I'm more than eager to read what Swiss and Glyph and everyone else have to say about this, but they're my priority right now.

Just saw your most recent post. I've pretty much read through D2 and D3 in their entirety. D1, I bounced around a little more, mostly focusing on the Kuz lynch and how it played out. Which was actually quite eye-opening about certain players, I think.

It probably would be helpful if I had played with you more since I don't really know what you're referencing when you say "dat town tell." You talking about the fact that you want J dead or that you haven't looked at the thread in a while? 'Cause I'll be honest, the fact that you still want J dead is looking like a scumtell to me right now. Would definitely like to read a good case from you on why you think he's scum.

It probably feels like more than it seems because it's actually three games; not two. Since, you know, you're his scumbuddy in this game too.

You mentioned finding Glyph/X1 to be town (you said you'd re-read and I hope you will), making Chibo your pick for the scummate that bussed Gheb by process of elimination. Any reason you're discounting Zen as well without even mentioning him?

Reachy pseudo-logic is reachy. All OS' death means is that mafia figured out he was likely to be cop and wanted the town cop dead (especially since we threw away our doctor on our own).

Gheb was "willing to trade a mafia roleblocker" (if you really want to put it that way) because with both the cop and the doctor dead, the mafia had little use for such a role anymore. Dark Horse was obviously going to be the next one to go and, with him gone, there's a decent chance the town's PRs have now been reduced to zero (aside from maybe this masonry that includes Chibo that people have been talking circles around for a while now).

Should be simple enough. I didn't really find him actively scummy; I just didn't like how inactive he was (hence me being here), which is a typical way to get my scumdar beeping. Like I said, I didn't start to really get into the nitty gritty details of this game until after I replaced in, and by then I obviously knew Mentos was town. Plus Gheb's flip has informed my opinion for toDay a lot.

I don't really care about how a mass claim goes at this point. I don't know how helpful it would be l but I don't know that it would hurt much either.

At any rate, good luck with your job interview. I look forward to grilling you more once you're gainfully employed.

To be honest, I never found J that scummy. After D1, when he stuck up for kuz and then managed to be one of the remarkably few people who decided to take a stance on not lynching the un-CC'd town doctor, he became pretty town in my eyes. Add to the fact that Gheb then spent the better part of D2 trying to deflect onto J while OS was drilling into him (keep in mind, Gheb was not the obvious choice for lynch at that point since we didn't know OS was cop), and I have pretty good reason to believe that J is not scum, since Gheb was.

There. Those are some reasons why I do not think J is scummy. You have yet to give me any good reasons for why you think he is scummy. And, in fact, when Zen asked you the same thing yesterDay, you copped out. Basically, the only reason you've given is "everyone else thought he was scummy." Or, in scum-language, "he would be one of the easier townies to mislynch."

What is ambiguous about what I said? What are you giving me the benefit of the doubt for? I think you are scum. That is my stance on you.

No need. Just wondered if you left him out of your post for a reason.

You can make jabs at my inexperience as scum all you want, but I don't see what you're trying to get at here. I think you're twisting yourself into a pretzel to try and make this work. It doesn't matter who the mafia is or who OS might have planned on investigating—when the mafia feels like they get a good idea of who the town cop is, they ****ing shoot. Especially when they know there is no town doctor to protect him and they are capable of blocking the claimed town watcher. OS got killed because he was obvcop, period.

Your theory swings both ways anyway. You say that mafia (with J in it) probably decided to kill OS to keep him from finding out that J was mafia. But it's just as possible that the mafia shot OS because he was going to investigate J and find out he's innocent, robbing them of one of their perceived easiest mislynches. This idea holds no water.

You're trying to build a false disconnect here. You did the same thing to J yesterDay, as a matter of fact. I said that I thought Mentos felt more scummy than townie to me before I joined the game, that is all. If you knew me and the way I tend to approach mafia (and there's no reason you should), you would know that I like to play activity police because I've seen too many mafiosi coast to endgame and make me look like my avatar. It doesn't mean that I think all inactives are definitely scum; it just means that coasting is a tactic that scum often use that I make a point of focusing on.

It's possible that I focus on it too much. But you and Glyph are at the top of my scumlist right now, and that has nothing to do with your activity.

I don't know what you want me to talk about. I've given some of my reasons for thinking J is town. I also think Zen is town, though I feel less confident about it.

Also, I feel we might not gain much from a massclaim because I don't see what town would really learn. Now that we don't seem to have any roles that can verify anyone's claims, mafia can probably just claim VT without worry.

Oh, I can agree to disagree on plenty. I'm a very agreeable guy. It is very possible that we genuinely have starkly different philosophies when it comes to mafia. But that does not make you not scum.

Gova, I saw you looking at Dgames last night after Rockin started D4 and earlier today. Do you have anything to share? No need for any giant blocks of text like I'm prone to giving, but any thoughts or feelings would be good.

If you can play then by all means play, Glyph. But if you don't think you're going to be able to spend some healthy time on this, seeing as you will likely be a point of at least mild interest throughout this Day, then that may be best.

But it's your call. You know what your situation is better than we do.

For the sake of trying to keep things neat and not getting too bogged down in what I feel is probably needless exposition, I'm going to keep my answer brief. Reading D1, I already knew kuz was dead and flipped doctor; for me it was just a matter of reading and figuring out how. I will tell you that after the point at which kuz claimed, I facepalmed multiple times. J's defense of kuz made me happy. Swiss and X1 telling the "real doc" not to CC did not (maybe my philosophy about CC'ing is different from others, but I think this was hella stupid and I don't know why the town followed it). D2 was a mess. OS turned Gheb into frustrated scum and Gheb tried to steer the wagon toward J. Wish OS would have just claimed if he was going to get on Gheb's case that hard, since we might have actually lynched Gheb on D2 if he had. Instead, we NL'd, and OS got NK'd anyway. D3, we all know what happened. Gheb got lynched (maybe quicker than would have been ideal for town). Scum is most definitely on his wagon, and, frankly, I think it would be smart to work from that pool for deciding the lynch toDay (but that's easy for me to say since I'm not in it, I realize).

Gova and Nabe give me my least town vibes next to Swiss and Glyph. I have found them both difficult to read, largely due to what I perceive to be coastiness and general lack of substance. I will say that I find Gova more likely to be scum than Nabe right now and I disagree with you that Nabe is the play toDay. There are several people I hold more favorably than Nabe, but I definitely want to see either Swiss or Glyph go before Nabe at this point, if not both.

I think it's my turn to claim. Whether it is or not, I don't care because this seems to be about as helpful as I thought it would be. I'm Queen Merelda. VT. To be honest, I thought she was a Kirby character or something, until I google'd her.

Zen, your second to most recent post is pretty much exactly what my scumlist looks like. I'll go back and read the posts I missed after dropping this post.

Well, I suppose it's understandable, but kind of inconvenient for me since my top two scum picks are now basically out of commission for a while.

I guess we can turn the focus onto some other players for a minute, but I definitely expect to be able to turn the spotlight back onto Swiss and/or Glyph (or their replacements, whatever) in the relatively near future. You guys aren't weaseling out of this that easy.

But until then, I definitely would like to know who Chibo's mason partner is now. If Glyph doesn't claim it, as I suspect he won't, then that means Chibo doesn't actually have a mason partner or that his partner has claimed VT (I'm guessing the latter). At this point, I think it would be better to just know who it is and I would like Chibo to be the one to tell us. I'm also hoping Chibo follows through on his promise to catch up and posts some general thoughts.

Nabe crumbing vig (assuming he actually did that; I didn't notice) is weird but not necessarily anti-town. Still don't really want him lynched. Kuz was apparently acting weird for no reason on D1, making people think he was fishy based on what is arguably poor town play rather than a scum tell, and we all know how that turned out.

I just think we have bigger fish to fry than Chibo and Nabe is all. I don't care if people are reluctant to claim mason or breadcrum roles they don't have for weird reasons. I care about relationships between players.

I believe so, yes. But we're not gonna mislynch because we're gonna bingo some scum toDay.

If by "it" you mean "I am Chibo's mason partner," by all means. Would make my day.

It's possible that he's working on some kind of huge post. I'm willing to wait, though I, like you, am not holding my breath.

Def down with lynching Glyph, though I still think I would kind of prefer Swiss and I wouldn't feel totally comfortable with making a fist-slam decision when he's not really here to defend himself (and that now goes for both of them).

I don't know if I could convince you of Swiss necessarily being more likely to be scum than Glyph; I think they're kind of equally scummy. I would just consider the elimination of Swiss to be a stronger blow to the mafia in general, if he is indeed scum. Like I said, I'm down for Glyph.

I wouldn't consider Zen to be inflexible. I just think he might be sniffing for scum in the wrong places right now—namely, Nabe. That said, Nabe should start making his presence known a lot more if he's town and wants to reach his wincon.

In fact, while I'm on the subject, I can definitely get behind him, Gova and Chibo needing to get in this game or fail the town hardcore. Glyph has at least given an excuse, and he's probably scum anyway so I can't blame him being too shy to play with us.

Good question. Probably because, like me, you got a scum read on him more for what he didn't do than for what he did. Most of Mentos' posts that I can recall were more about how he wasn't able to commit much to this game, whereas I have forsaken all of my real life demands for this and the new Pokemon Black. Like a boss.

See, I would probably go with Gova for pretty much that exact reason. I feel like Nabe gives a little more. If Gova's going to continue being such a question mark, then I don't really care to keep him around. Do not like the idea of him being a variable in endgame.

Still the only thing that's really going to help me solidify my thoughts for most of the people left in this game is going to be more content from them. It probably wouldn't hurt for me to do a little re-reading either, but I would prefer to make pixelated animals fight each other right now. Will commit to looking over the past Days a little later.

To be honest, I don't have any opinion on Zen's D1 play at all because my focus wasn't on him when I was reading the D1 posts. If I get some free time, I'll try to make a point of reading him (as well as a few other players) in relation to Gheb during the past Days. Not really up to doing it right now as I've had a busy day.

I'm obviously reconsidering plenty of things now that Glyph has claimed. My opinion of Swiss has not changed much. For what it's worth.

Zen, since you seem to be having trouble swallowing the Chibo/Glyph mason as fact, what is your theory? Do you think it's possible that Chibo and Glyph are scum with some strategic PR faking?

One more thing: ANYONE KEEN ON ENDING THIS DAY EARLY IS NOT PLAYING IN A WAY THAT FAVORS TOWN, PERIOD. Gheb was a fine quicklynch since the town essentially had a bingo on him after OS' flip. That is not the case for anyone else left in the game, so let's not be hasty. Just because we have a mislynch doesn't make it any smarter to throw away all that discussion time, especially with so many players seemingly in varying levels of V/LA.

That's kind of what I meant by "strategic." Because (and do correct me if I have this wrong) what you seem to be suggesting is that Chibo, as scum, may have claimed mason early on in the game in order to appear town with the presumption that one of his scumbuddies would claim to be his mason partner later in the game. It would certainly be an interesting gambit.

But I just want to make sure we're thinking clearly about this. After all, I know I sound like a broken record, but this town did lynch its doctor on D1 because of some serious trust issues. You didn't seem to think that either Chibo or Glyph were scum before, but now that they claim to be in a masonry, they seem to be pinging on your radar more. I want you to be sure that you're actually hunting scum and not just being paranoid.

"Validate this?" I think it's pretty self-explanatory. OS flipped cop, immediately damning Gheb. Scum would have known Gheb was probably done for and would have begun bussing as soon as possible. You were, I believe, the first one to vote Gheb and you had an immediate back and forth with him. This is a little meta, but the time between the posts makes it look almost coordinated. Although you may have hesitated to follow through, because you tried to think of ways Gheb could be innocent for him after you cast the vote. Maybe you were hoping the town would get caught up in wifom and Gheb might be able to wriggle out from the noose under the guise of possibly being another miller.

Yes, I probably would be on OS' case about this if I had less information then I do. As it stands, he's already dead and I know he was the cop and I know Gheb was mafia. If I did not know any of those things, OS would probably be on my **** list right now. I don't know that I would agree that I'm "only pursuing one of the culprits," because I don't think I'm really pursuing anyone right now. I stated my opinions on several people and that's about it. And for the record, when you went V/LA, I basically considered you off the table of "pursuit" for a while. Go read the post where I said how I'm not comfortable lynching people who are not present to defend themselves.

I had no choice but to believe Kuz. As I believe I have said before, by the time I read through any portion of D1 at all, I already knew he was the town doctor. I read through D1 like someone watching Fight Club for the first time who already knows Brad Pitt and Edward Norton are the same person. I couldn't remove the information from my brain.

My point in bringing up kuz was that, once he had claimed to the town, I would not have voted for his lynch without a counter claim. When someone claims doc, you don't ****ing kill him. And telling other people not to counter him was stupid. If Kuz had been scum and was just trying to out the doc, that would have been fine, because then we still would have ended up with a dead doctor, but we also would have had a dead mafioso D1. By telling everyone else not to CC him, you (and others, certainly) made it look like there was likely to be some other "real" doctor out there and he just wasn't coming forward because he didn't want to play into the scum gambit. You made a really simple thing that should have immediately cleared a town way more complicated than it had to be, and it ended in disaster.

How is that not real content? I told you that I thought Glyph was scummy and I gave a reason why, expecting that I didn't need to go and quote specific posts from a Day that was only about a page long in order to back up what I was saying.

As to the rest of this, I don't see what you expect to get out of my answer. Yes, I think I've been clear about the fact that I think the Kuz lynch was absurdly bad town play and I really don't see how anyone could disagree. But we all make mistakes; I've certainly made plenty in the mafia games I've played. I don't think this town is "sub-par," but I do think this town needs to stop getting so bogged down in wifom and just look at what's right in front of them.

Maybe they didn't. I don't know. I'm saying it's possible. Would you like to tell me why it's not?

I don't know what you want from me here. I thought you and Glyph were easily the scummiest players at the beginning of this Day and neither of you have really been able to say anything to sway me since then (I'm not trying to make a case here; I know you both have been having issues getting online and stuff). I'm trying not to tunnel. I'm keeping my options open even if I feel very strongly about certain people. You act like the fact that I'm not expressing finding nulltells on everyone in this game means I'm tunneling.

And for the record, I'm much less confident on my scumread of Glyph now that he has claimed. See? I'm a flexible guy. I'm just not a push-over.

I did not say anything about "gaining multiple stances." I just think that the Kuz situation bore some interesting reads for me based on the way people reacted. For example, J defended Kuz. One of the few who did, actually. As a result of that, he seems quite town to me. Tangenting from that, certain people (including confirmed scum Gheb) have been on J's case in the past for reasons that they have not even explained (looking at you now) and that seems fishy to me. These kinds of branching relationships are how I form my view of the town. That's all that means.

I said it was fine that we quicklynched. I did not say it was beneficial. However, I think the fact that Gheb hammered the way he did may have been more telling than Gheb had initially thought.

It is very easy to see why Gheb could have perceived it to be beneficial to scum. He ended the day quickly, limiting town's time for discussion, and he probably got some scum on his wagon in hopes that that player (or those players) would seem more town as a result. I have said this before. Just because it may be backfiring on the mafia now doesn't mean they didn't think it was a good idea then.

Whoa. What are you even trying to say here? Stop putting words in my mouth. I have not expressed any interest in ending the day early or quicklynching at all. In fact, the complete opposite is true. Honestly, I don't know how you could have even misread me to such a horrendous degree that you would think this. I said, in the exact post that you quoted, that anyone who wants to end the Day early or is comfortable with throwing away town discussion time because we have a mislynch is NOT playing in a way that is favorable to town. I brought this up because Nabe said he was okay with us hammering him and Chibo said he was fine with today ending now. Whether or not either of them is town, those are not ideas that help town. Let me be clear: I want this Day to last a long time. I do not want to lynch anyone until town has had lots of time to discuss possibilities and explore different avenues of thought. I do not want to quicklynch, because I do not want to mislynch, even if we are still capable of winning if we do. Do not twist my words around like that again.

In conclusion, you are OMGUS-ing me hardcore right now. Is this your way of trying to get me to think you're not scum? Because I'll warn you now that it's not working.

I think there's other **** that I wanted to respond to but I'm exhausted after this. Will come back later after I've mellowed out a bit with my pokemanz.

You better believe I want some elaboration on this.

You have a point, actually. I suppose I'm the one that's getting a little paranoid. For some reason I'm just worried that we're going to spend the Day jumping down rabbit holes that lead nowhere and I'm trying to nip them in the bud now. But after some consideration, I think that's actually not necessary yet, or even a good idea right now. There's no reason not to look into this a little bit.

With that said, it probably seems like I'm on the fence because I kind of am on the fence. Really wasn't liking Glyph before, but his claim seems solid. And if he's scum, then it's with Chibo and not Swiss, which doesn't feel right to me. I still see it as a possibility.

The reason I'm wary about getting too suspicious of the Chibo/Glyph mason claim is that I think it may be needlessly cluttering the town's suspect pool. Totally in favor of turning over stones, but at some point (not now) we have to narrow down our options. I think we need to just keep in mind how believable Chibo's and Glyph's claims are.

At this point, I don't think I do. I just hate the idea of Gova being with us in endgame. I could warm up to a Nabe lynch.

This actually makes complete sense and I feel stupid for making you explain it. Thanks. Who's Swiss' scumbuddy then?

If you still think Gova's the play today, then who's his buddy?

@Swiss: I'm not even doing this quote-for-quote thing with you anymore because it's pointless and distracting. Your last post at me was incredibad. Basically, your arguments about the mafia's motivations for killing OS and finding J scummy can be boiled down to wifom and nulltells. And I don't even really get what you're trying to say with your statements about my view of kuz on D1. I never said that I found kuz's play on D1 to be towny. If I had been here on D1, it's very possible that I might have voted for him at the time. But once he had claimed doc and then was not CC'd, that vote would have come off and I would have been pretty adamantly against the lynch. That's all I was saying. And if you find the answers I give to your questions to be unhelpful or dumb, then maybe you shouldn't ask me dumb, pointless questions.

Your points about Gheb's motivations are dumb too. Basically, you keep saying "Gheb's too smart for that" or "the mafia wouldn't do that." You act as if the fact that I'm even noticing possible scum signals at all proves that they are false. Are the mafia some big, impenetrable wall of mystery and I just don't know it? If that's the case, then what's the point of even playing? Even scum make mistakes and take chances. And they rely on exactly the kind of wifom arguments that you're using in order to get away with most of it.

But you really sealed the lid on your own coffin by voting for me. I can't even believe that you reacted this way after I just called you out for OMGUS-ing me. You're getting ridiculously hyper and defensive over the fact that you have one vote on you (mine). Nabe's at L-2 and even he isn't flipping out the way you are. You're clearly far more interested in self-preservation than helping the town win.

I know Glyph's probably still having comp troubles, but I'd love to read some thoughts from the Chibo/Glyph camp. Chibo how do you feel about the way Swiss is reacting to pressure? Actually, anyone can answer that.

Also getting annoyed with J being evasive, even though I still think he's town. Hoping to see a post from him soon that isn't just about Gova being scarce.

Gova's tough for me. As I've said, sparse posting always keeps a player lower on my townie list, but that's by no means an efficient way of actually finding scum. I'm not following the way he's trying to connect Zen to Gheb—not really a scumtell, but it seems weirdly reachy to me. And if it's really based on only one post, then I don't see how he could consider it a strong enough case to make Zen his third in line for lynch.

Also, Gova's flip doesn't interest me too greatly. If he's town, then that's gonna be completely unhelpful. Think we have better targets to aim for at the moment, but the Day is young. Also, you didn't ask me about this, but I'm waffling on Nabe.

I don't even know what to say about how crazy, off-the-charts scummy you're acting, Swiss. I feel like I don't even need to try and explain my suspicion of you anymore because you're making it so apparent to everyone on your own. You're practically sprinting toward the noose.

Really? You voted for me because you were going to pressure me? And Zen responding to you stopped you from doing that somehow? That sure is odd.

Go ahead, Swiss. Show me where my inconsistencies on kuz are. How that could even be possible considering he was dead and flipped Days before I even joined the game is beyond me, so I'd love to read what you have to say about it. Also, go ahead and point out all the examples you have found of me using "edgy logic" and carefully placing appeals to emotion all around my posts like scum seasoning. Show me, Swiss.

You were right the first time, Zen. Swiss is absolutely the lynch toDay. After this recent play, I highly doubt I'll find a reason to move my vote now. I have to see his flip.

However, that doesn't need to happen just yet because I definitely want to see Chibo and/or Glyph (but preferably both) get in here and post some thoughts. If we lynch Swiss and he flips scum, then Chibo and Glyph will become 100% cleared, making one of them more likely to be NK'd toNight.

Also, if Swiss flips scum, I'm extremely confident that either Gova or Nabe is his scumbuddy. Would go Nabe before Gova at this point.

You're making this easy now.

Swiss, if you still don't think I'm scum, then post your case on J like we've been pestering you to. You managed to intentionally avoid that part of J's 1780. Yet again. Or was your case just the idea that you think OS was going to investigate J and you think mafia shot OS just to protect him and all that?

Also, why don't you make a case on Nabe since he's apparently your second pick for scum? What don't you like about Nabe, Swiss? Or are you just bussing him now because you know your boned?

EBWOP: *you're

That's pretty embarrassing.

Still think Swiss is better. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we lynched him toDay so that we'll be less likely to be in mylo on D5.

Ugh. I'm itching to see Swiss' flip so bad, you have no idea.

I'll switch to Nabe to avoid a no lynch.

Also, I wasn't kidding about wanting to give Chibo and/or Glyph time to post before we actually do anything.

Very possible. Still would like to give them a chance considering one of them could be dead by D5. I mean, any of us could be, but you know what I mean.

Also, Swiss, I know you're still online. If you're town, you better come back and fight me on this with some legit substance. Rolling over and dying is what scum does.

Okay. Whatever. I can't believe I waited around for that.

I've got to get to bed now and I'm celebrating my sister's birthday tomorrow so I might not be able to get online tomorrow until late. Hopefully nothing too exciting will happen before then.

Peace, ya'll.

Sorry, Swiss. I logged off pretty much right after made that last post, then I saw your reply as a guest. But I decided not to stick around because it was already almost 5am here. Still nothing stopping you from making that case you were apparently working on.





Anyway, just stopped in quick to check up on things. Will be back on later tonight.

I would want you to prove to me that you're town as soon as possible, Swiss. But since you can't, I don't see the point of the question.

And you are still a lynch candidate for toDay, as far as I'm concerned. I don't even get why Zen wants to leave you alive for one more Day with the way you've been playing.

No Gova. Swiss.

Damn democratic process....

Yessssss.

Nabe, I did actually want answers to these questions.

We can lynch Gova after we lynch Swiss if that will make you feel better, Zen.

Zen, quit hoppin' around like a schizo and vote Swiss. I can feel you wifoming yourself into madness over there. Don't over think this.

We've got Swiss in our freaking jowls. I can taste the scum on him. Let's eat.

Okay. There is no excuse for this town to have been this inactive today. There's plenty to talk about. Out of all of the people that are hardly posting, most of them have to be townies, even if I'm completely wrong about my scum picks. This is lame, and is exactly the way towns have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the past.

Chibo, no johns tomorrow. I want thoughts from you on everything.

Gova, continuing to lurk is only going to make J (and everyone else) even more suspicious of you. Post. No one's asking you to bingo scum. Just tell us which way you're leaning on people right now. Would you say you're more or less suspicious of Swiss than you were a day ago? How about Nabe? Feel free to answer questions I'm not asking.

Swiss, last night you said you were finally building up a case on J. Why you needed to build it when you had already been on his *** all Day is a mystery to me, but I'm willing to believe that maybe you were just looking for things to quote in order strengthen some thoughts you already had. There's no reason you couldn't have posted it by now. You had all day. If you're just going to post videos of gangsta mario cute, rhyming couplets in place of substance, then get lynched.

Ooh, and there's Swiss. Right as I'm about to post this. I can't wait for the thoughtful, helpful response this post will surely receive from him. Hope that Sizzler treated you right.

And a freaking Zen ninja. I took too long on that post.

Lookin' forward to it.

@Swiss: Couple of things.

One, J began defending Kuz before he claimed doc. That means that, at least at first, scumJ only would have known that Kuz was town, not that he was doc. Significantly less brownie points there.

Two, I'm entirely willing to believe that scum would defend a townie in order to look good. It's classic scum play. I just don't believe that is what happened with J and Kuz when I look at the play myself. You said yourself that this is not a scumtell on it's own, yet it's the only thing you've presented as a clue to J's alignment aside from...I don't know, whatever you mean when you say "edgy play."

It's not that I think it's impossible that scum could defend a townie to look townie themselves. But you seem to completely eliminate the possibility that J could have just felt that Kuz was actually town (even if he wasn't playing well), and then defended him in order to try and move on to a better lynch option. Even townies act towny sometimes, believe it or not. I suppose the reason I'm willing to believe J's motives so much is because I could have seen myself doing the same thing had I been here on D1. Probably not until after he claimed (kind of like how I've pretty much dropped Glyph now that he has claimed), but still.

Also, you yourself claimed to believe that scum (at least one) was on Gheb's wagon on D3. Do you still believe that? Then why are you focusing on J? You, Chibo, Zen and Glyph were the only ones other than Gheb himself who voted for him that Day. Obviously you wouldn't say you're the scum, and Chibo and Glyph are claimed masons. Seems like your choice should have been clear. Why have you been after J this whole time? By now, Zen should practically be confirmed scum to you.

Let's keep in mind the fact that Gheb was basically on J's *** all game. I'd be willing to believe Gheb may have been trying to lightly distance himself from scumJ on D1, but by D2, when he was beginning to get a lot of heat, but not yet the obvious lynch, it is likely that he would have tried deflecting toward a townie to lynch rather than himself. Was he essentially reverse-bussing J on D2, Swiss? And if that's the case, why didn't J bus back?

Why is it so impossible to believe that they can pick and choose? Why is it impossible that they could change their play from Day to Day?

Last sentence is confusing for me. Who asked who if who was scum where?

In regards to J's recent post listing the claims, it's worth remembering that Gheb had a safeclaim (Ruto). So I don't know what we'd be able to learn from that. Still think the claim was useless.

Also still think Swiss has to die.

Also still think that people should play this game.

This is a fair point for Gheb to bus J. But at the time, Gheb didn't really seem to be in a position to bus, as he was looking like the most likely lynch candidate if there was going to be a lynch. He seemed like he was more in a position to be bussed, which is why I still think it would be weird for J not to bus him if he's scum. I mean, if they were hoping to scrape by with a No Lynch, fine, they did succeed at that. But I would think J still would have pitted himself more squarely against Gheb, even if he didn't vote for him, if the plan was to at least distance themselves.

Actually, Nabe made a point on D2 that J wouldn't be scum if one of OS/Gheb flipped scum, because a scumbuddy would take a side in that situation, whether it be for the sake of bussing or whatever. And I think that's a pretty good point, but it could also be total bull**** if Nabe's scum himself.

Ugh...now I'm hesitating. I kind of want a Nabe lynch, but if he's scum then that might mean a Nabe/J team. And that would mean Swiss is acting like a defensive, incoherent, scummy jerk for no reason.

THIS GAME. MAN.

I think I still want Swiss. There is no way that his recent play fits with a town alignment in my head. If he's town, then I'm going to eat my ****ing feet off.

But if it weren't for the way he's been acting, I might be looking at a you/Nabe team, J.

I probably need to do some more re-reading, but I'm not up to that right now.

Where is the rest of this town, seriously?

Nabe is V/LA? How did I miss that? And I thought Chibo was only V/LA yesterday.

We're not even going to be able to get anyone lynched with only half the players present. Even with a self-hammer.

I went back and searched for everything you've referenced here (which I had a devil of a time doing, by the way, since I had to sift through a lot of the OS/Gheb crap), and I can say with some confidence that, yes, I find the way J came to his stance on Kuz's alignment to be believable. In his 635, he states that a large part of the reason he found Kuz town was due to precedent. That's legitimate, as far as I'm concerned. Though I probably wouldn't have been able to come to that conclusion as early as he did because he had played with kuz previously and I never have.

No, J's defense of Kuz is not the only reason I think he's town, though I think it's important to note that I find the way he defended Kuz to be a large factor here—he didn't just say "well, I think he's probably town, let's not lynch him." He made a case for keeping Kuz alive. I know scum like to defend townies to look good, but how likely is it that a mafioso would have defended Kuz to the point of maybe actually saving him when they had the chance to get the doctor lynched on D1? That's a damn good opportunity for the mafia, and I don't see them throwing that away in exchange for some brownie points that J apparently isn't even getting from anyone other than me. In addition to that, I also consider Gheb's persistent stance on him to be suggestive of towniness. It's difficult to explain why, but it just doesn't feel like distancing to me. That, plus J's reads just align so well with mine that it gives me faith in him.

Zen's vote puts Nabe at L-2. I don't want to move my vote to him yet. Still want him to answer my questions.

Anyone know how long Nabe's V/LA for?

Sir, I did not ask for the days on which he hustles.

Because between you and Nabe, at least one of you has to be scum. I think you should both go before J.

If you aren't sold on Zentown, then you aren't being discerning enough at this point in the game. Especially now that we're getting closer to endgame, we have to find players we can trust. If everyone turns back into legitimate suspects, then this town is ****ed right now.

Which is why it's so lame that Chibo can't/won't post. And it will be super lame when Chibo and Glyph end up being the scum team and we all commit seppuku after this game.

Correction here. I wouldn't say I have a null on either Gova or Nabe right now. Gova has been looking townier in my eyes (note: not necessarily town), and I feel like Nabe is scum. I just feel like Swiss is scum so much more, and, as I've expressed before, I don't feel comfortable lynching someone when they can't defend themselves. I'll hammer Nabe to avoid a NL. But I would rather see him come back and post first.

To be clear, Swiss and Nabe are my main suspects right now. It's just that Nabe is more circumstantial and Swiss is more of a direct read.

Oh, and of course Nabe returns just before I post this. Nabe, in the event that you are town, then it's gotta be either Swiss and Gova or Swiss and J. Either way, Swiss is going.

Nabe, is Gova still your prime suspect? If so, who's his buddy? If not, elaborate. Answer whenever you can, but the sooner the better, obviously.

The hypocrisy. Oh, the unimaginable hypocrisy.

It's not that I don't agree with you on Gova's inactivity. But when you ask for people to present a case on someone (in this case, yourself) and then dismiss that question when it's asked of you as "it's a gut feeling," you're basically saying that you don't have to hold yourself to the same standard to which you hold everyone else. You didn't even bother half-assing an answer for who you think Gova's scum buddy might be. You know I was asking you those questions for a reason and you totally blew them off. That is unhelpful.

Hey, Swiss. How come you called out J for hopping on the "easy lynch" by going after Gova, but Nabe doing the same thing doesn't do anything for you?

It don't see why one of you must be lying or using faulty logic in order to have different reads on someone you both know. You're still both coming from different perspectives. I'm just saying that I find J's perspective to be a valid one to come from. If you see a player do something weird/maybe scummy in a mafia game, and then they flip town, and then they do something similar in another mafia game, it makes sense that you would then doubt that it is a scumtell.

And frankly, it doesn't make any sense to me that anyone would fake a post restriction to look scummy. No one should do it, ever. It was a bad play on Kuz's part; I think we all agree with that. However, I do think it makes way more sense for a town PR to do something that makes him more ambiguous (even if that something is just doing nothing at all) so that he doesn't look like a good target for NK. It seems like that was Kuz's plan. He just went about it in the wrong way.

Short answer: Scum would rarely do anything that could come back and make them look more scummy. Faking a posting restriction is a helluva gamble that usually has extremely little pay off. Even if one mafioso thinks it's a good idea, I would think his buddies would talk him out of it. A town PR wants to stay alive, and scum like to shoot obvtowns. It isn't that ridiculous.

Didn't know he did it as scum, too. I suppose it's a fair enough point, I just don't think it's strong enough to lynch J on. Yet. Regardless, I'm going to let J fight this battle if he wants to since I clearly don't even know enough about this to be defending anyone.

Between Nabe and Swiss, we'll hit scum. If they aren't both scum, then maybe J.

Oh, also, @Nabe, I didn't say I wanted you to half-*** an answer. I just wanted an answer, and I would expect that answer to be half-***** if you're scum. You say you want people to build frameworks and post cases on you so that your flip will mean something. Contrastingly, I want you to do this, so that your flip means something. I want your opinions to be laid out on the table so that we can base connections on them from your flip. If you are town, this should not be something you want to avoid doing.

I've asked you this before, Nabe, but have not gotten an answer—what is your read on Swiss? I would like to know because you might not be the lynch right now if we were able to get something going on Swiss, but you don't seem interested in him at all. Is that just because of how super townie you think he is? You would rather be lynched than go after him because you think he's just as likely to be a mislynch as you are?

Regardless of what your reasons are for getting a scum read on Gova, who is his scumbuddy? If you can decide on Gova with your gut, then you should be able to do the same for his buddy.

Swiss, I agree with Zen's point here. If J's scum, his scumbuddy is Nabe. If Nabe's scum, his buddy could be plenty of people. But I'm betting on you or J right now. Nabe's the smarter play in terms of pure practicality. Glyph can't move his vote anyway, so Nabe is most definitely the lynch toDay. If he flips scum, then it's between you and J and I'm willing to look into both of you since we'll still have a mislynch (two in fact, if I'm not mistaken).

Nabe first. If he flips scum, then we're in great shape because we'll have two mislynches and three suspects: Swiss, J and Gova.

I still want Nabe to respond to me, which is pretty much the only reason I haven't switched my vote to him yet. I don't want him pulling a Gheb on us.

Also, I want to hear from J.

Maybe something got lost in translation here. I was not asking you to make a case on yourself. I know it's not your job to get yourself lynched. I was asking you to simply provide reads on other players (really, as many as possible) so that we would have something to work off of when you flipped. Regardless of what you flipped. This is pretty basic. And it is not at all "meaningless by nature." A flip is actually one of the only meaningful things we have to go on now that we're out of PR's.

I want reads from you because they're the only way town gets information. You're currently telling me that on D4 of this game, the only thing you can give me essentially amounts to little more than a shrug. Even players you were looking into before, you are now backing away from. The most immediate problem with this is that, upon your flip, we will learn much less than we would have otherwise. Even if you are town, knowing who you trust more than others would be more helpful than leaving everyone as a giant question mark. However, more pressingly, your unwillingness to hunt scum is only reassuring me that you're scum. If you are not scum, then you are unacceptably apathetic town. It's not just a lack of posts anymore; it's a lack of interest in helping town win. You're either reluctant to give reads or genuinely unwilling to form any—neither of these options are helpful to the town.

It's not too late. You aren't lynched yet. If you're town, make me believe your town. And if you can't make me believe you're town, then at least help us to not mislynch again if we lynch you. Help us find directions to go in. You seem to be backpedaling on Gova now, so who's the lynch if it isn't you?

This is weird. Swiss looks townier to you after Gheb's flip? Can you explain why? Even if Swiss doesn't necessarily make sense as Gheb's buddy to you (I don't see why he wouldn't), has his reaction to pressure toDay not jingled any bells for you?

For what it's worth, I would have assumed Peach wasn't in this game myself, but I don't think the Peach issue is really worth pursuing. Also, the name claims are garbage. Gheb claimed Ruto, remember? That's too good a claim for him to have just plucked it out of thin air. I imagine Rockin gave the mafia safeclaims. Null.

Okay. Well. I don't think you're going to get much of that because the people who are voting for you have already given their reasons and they're all pretty meta and circumstantial. Chibo has his Peach claim thing and Zen and I basically just think you could be attached to a lot of people. If we wanted a lynch based purely on scum reads, I would still want Swiss. And you apparently think he's town. So, you know.

I just wanted to hear from you in general, 'cause it felt like it had kind of been a while and I thought maybe you were reluctant to post. I guess some specifics would be what your current thoughts on Gova and Nabe are, respectively. Also, maybe weigh in on the Kuz thing that Gova's talking about, though I assume you would want to do that anyway.

What do you mean when you say you think we're in a similar position?

Also, what the **** has been going on with SWF's servers? I can't be the only one with the site crashing on them every ten minutes.

@Nabe

Do want answers to these questions, if you'd be kind of enough to give some. I don't know Swiss' playstyle very well, so I'm going mainly on generic scumreads here. However, I believe Zen said that he considered omgus-ing to be a particular scumtell for Swiss. Would you disagree?

@J

Do want a post from you. I know you're in multiple games and you're catching up and what not, but I want to make sure you don't go vanishing on us at the end of the Day here.

@Chibo

Who do you think is Nabe's scumbuddy?

@Potato chips

Do want you in my tummy om nom nom nom.

Yup. 1718. The posts around this one are worth reading as well, but there's a direct link to the main offender for you.

I've pretty much been on him since my first post (1562). I think there's some stuff there that is worth looking at, but I would say **** started getting real around Swiss' 1656.

'Preciate it. We still have a couple of days before deadline so whatever works.

[/Collapse]

Modkill - Glyph
NK - Zen

[Collapse=Day 5 - Circus]

MY AVATAR ACCURATELY REFLECTS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

Hopefully I shouldn't have to say this but I'm feeling anxious so I'm just going to throw it out there: Everyone hang onto your ****ing votes, no matter how scummy you think someone is right now. We still have 2 scum left and we're now in mylo, so putting anyone at L-2 could cost us the game.

Nabe, what kind of conclusion have you come to about Swiss? Would you consider him worth possibly lynching toDay?

J, still want that post you never got to yesterDay. I'm in the market for a new Zen, so please get in here and convince me you're super ****ing townie.

Chibo, please don't tunnel Nabe.

Swiss, I swear, if you're town....

Why would scum neglect to shoot when they could just shoot Chibo?

Who is J's scumbuddy, Swiss? You claimed to think it was Zen before, which was apparently a lie, and now he's dead and flipped town.

Hey, Swiss, is there a town reason for why you're actively avoiding this thread?

While browsing, like, three other threads in DGames. Plus, it's not like the questions I asked you should take very long to answer. The fact that you are even paying enough attention to post in here but didn't bother to say anything useful when I have posed questions to you is ridiculous.

While I'm at it, Nabe and J. I saw both of you online earlier. I know you're both in other games, but work with me here.

Sure would be great if, like, everyone in this game wasn't avoiding it.

Thank you for going against your natural instincts by being the slightest bit cooperative with me.

That can be fixed with a hot shower.

However, the shame will never wash away.

That combination sounds like it could be calamitous. Godspeed, sir.

Probably you. If I had to decide right now.

You're my first pick at the moment. Feel free to convince me otherwise if you can. Who would you pick as his scumbuddy?

Oh, no. Sorry, let me clarify. Swiss is my first pick for scum. You are my first pick for Swiss' scumbuddy. You know, as opposed to Gova or J.

I can understand why you would be uncomfortable with the question, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve an answer. You copped out with that Zen answer, as far as I'm concerned.


I haven't re-read D2 or D3 to any great extent recently, but I read through both of those Days fully before I made my first post. It's entirely possible that I could benefit from looking over them again.

I believe you've said something similar about the OS kill before, but you've never really elaborated on what you personally think it could mean. You say the motive needs some examination, but you don't examine it yourself (at least not to the point of reaching a conclusion). Pointing out something that looks fishy is all well and good, but it's not enough to persuade people on it's own.

To me, it still seems apparent that the mafia had a clear shot at the cop and took it. The way I see it, their options for N2 were as follows:

1) Shoot cop (OS); block watcher (DH)
2) Shoot watcher (DH); block cop (OS)

They chose option one, and I don't blame them. Sure, they could have left Gheb a question mark a little while longer, but ultimately I think OS was just a thorn in their side that they wanted removed. DH wasn't being nearly as much of a nuisance as OS was, and they seemed to think that they might be able to get away with calling OS' sanity into question, even after he flipped. And Gheb tried to throw out that taylor/framer possibility. So it seems to me that Gheb was still trying to be a question mark, if he could get away with it, but had Swiss bus him just in case. Ultimately, I think it came down to the fact that OS, as a player, was giving Gheb too much hell.

Well, obviously. The only other options would be yourself or clearChibo.

Now we're getting somewhere. So, what do you make of the fact that Swiss has been on J's *** for the last two Days? Intense bussing? Legitimate questions, not trying to be a jerk.

Also, I'm sure you noticed, on D2, the only lynch option other than Gheb was J, who had both Gheb's and Swiss' votes on him at the end of the Day (as well as yours, I might add). He was almost lynched, but no one hammered him. Do you think Gheb risked almost getting his scumbuddy J lynched like that in place of himself for the sake of a bus? Was he just crossing his fingers that the town would NL instead of hammering his buddy?

I do echo this though.

...Are you trying to be funny again?

Depends. Who's his scumbuddy?

Waffling on Nabe after some re-reading....

J, talk to me about why we should lynch Gova.

Sorry 'bout that. I'm just so stealth, you see.

Definitely thinking scum is between Swiss, Nabe and Gova at this point. Starting to think Gova might be more scummy than Nabe, but he doesn't make as much sense as Swiss' scummate to me. Also, I feel like scum would have hopped on Nabe earlier yesterDay if he were town. He got to L-2 without a single mafioso getting on his wagon....

Nope. That riddle sucks.

You did just make yourself look even townier to me though, so thanks.

Glad we're on the same page. Or at least the same chapter.

Wanna hear what Gova has to say about all of this. Also would be nice to hear from Chibo the Clear Townie.

Swiss, when this game is over, we are going to be best friends. For realz.

Til then, get lynched.

The ninjas....

It's actually quite fruity. I promise.

J, between Swiss and Gova I'm preferring Swiss. But I've been preferring Swiss pretty much since I replaced in. And I want Gova to say something before I decide anything for certain.

Really just want Gova to post. I saw him lurking earlier.

You are the only suspect I have that makes any sense as J's scumbuddy to me. But I don't think Gheb/Nabe/J works as a scum team, after re-reading. Particularly based upon the way D2 ended.

Gheb pushed J too hard and at too impractical a time for him to be his scummate. You (Nabe) were on Gheb's case for a good while, and you seemed like you were sure that Gheb needed to die that Day, but you switched to J at the very end of the Day.

TownNabe's reason for doing this: Attempt to avoid a No Lynch. J was closer to lynch at that point.
ScumNabe's reason for doing this: Lynch a townie instead of just No Lynching. You had distanced Gheb well enough by that point anyway.

This makes a Gheb/Nabe/J team essentially impossible. That means that the only options for J's buddy would be Swiss and Gova, and neither seem very likely to me, based on their interactions. Plus, like I said, Gheb seemed like he was legitimately trying to get J lynched in place of himself on D2.

Short answer: I can't connect J to any of my other suspects toDay in a way that makes sense to me.

I think this is a mistake. Scum is not playing this game alone. And they can only confuse you if you let them; ignoring player relationships is worse than potentially having to deal with wifom.

Not that I don't consider Nabe to be a good contender for toDay's lynch, but given your read on Zen, I'm not super comfortable with following you on this just yet, no matter how confident you say you are.

I don't see why those posts are good enough to permanently clear him for you. At all. They're null-leaning town at best.

If it says so much about my slot, then go ahead and lay it all out for me, because I'm not seeing what you're apparently expecting me to see. Tell me what conclusions you are drawing from this, otherwise it's just noise.

You've done this before. You state an observable fact and then say "hm, that's kinda weird, isn't it?" That doesn't help me or anyone else.

J, Chibo, play nice.

Nabe, you're doing it again.

Ninjas. Ninjas everywhere.

No Lynching again is dumb, though it's obviously better than lynching me. All that's going to happen if we NL is that scum are going to take out Chibo and we'll be in lylo with 2 scum, no new information, and one less townie brain to help scumhunt. We're going to find scum toDay or we're going to lose this game.

...Such as? Do you think it's possible that the mafia would even target a player other than Chibo?

I'm still kind of scratching my head about this. I'm guessing they thought Zen looked pretty town and was being more troublesome than Chibo was, but it still seems strange. Still, I don't know that anything can really be gleaned from this, other than the fact that scum, arguably, might not have made the most efficient kill they could have. Kind of like what happened on N3, with OS.

I'm almost positive that Glyph said they were confirmed townie to one another, though I'm too lazy to go sifting through the posts for that right now. Glad you aren't.

As a side note, while I think he's doing things that aren't very helpful right now (and being kind of paranoid), Nabe's doing a decent job of making me think he's town. Reaching as far as Chibo as a suspect is pretty bold, considering he could just tunnel J all Day if he wanted to.

Okay. That feels kind of out of the blue. Is this you telling me you're still never going to vote for Swiss?

Which is, ironically enough, exactly why you became my first choice for Swiss' scumbuddy. You were pretty much the only option left.

Which is, ironically enough, exactly why you became my first choice for Swiss' scumbuddy. You were pretty much the only option left.

I've explained why I consider J town. And why I don't think he makes sense when paired with anyone for the scumteam, including Swiss.

My character is Queen Merelda. I just doublechecked my role PM.

In several places at this point. I guess I'll just repeat that I find Gheb's attack on J to be legitimate deflection and not bussing. I also find J's defense of Kuz on D1 to be a believable townie act and his reads tend to mirror mine. There have been times when I was afraid he was buddying me to look town, but I since have perished the thought. If he's scum, then GG J. He fooled me.

@Chibo: It's a "Royal" sleepover. Queens and Princesses both fit the bill. Plus, Gheb was Princess Midna.

I wouldn't consider that very likely, but I guess. All the more reason not to NL toDay.

If Swiss isn't scum, then it's you and Gova. :/

Unless you want to try to convince me why Gova/J makes more sense.

Looks like J defending himself against Swiss and arguably omgus-ing. Though I wouldn't put it in the same vein as the omgus Swiss directed at me on D4. What did you think of that, by the way?


Not much. Honestly, it all looks pretty null to me. Have you read over D3 or D4 yet?

Don't mind it much at all, actually.

Would prefer to get more out of Gova before settling on his lynch though.

You, Swiss and Gova are my top picks for scum.

You've been seeming townier to me. GG if you're scum.

You're suggesting that we lynch Gova and then potentially lynch Swiss after him. Why wouldn't I be okay with that?

Though, like I said, I'm not going to back the lynch properly until Gova gets in here and gets a fair shake at at a defense.

Which is what I said. :/ I'm not against a Gova lynch. I think he very well could be scum. And if we were to lynch Gova, and he were to flip scum, I would be willing to defend myself and push for Swiss' lynch. Do you have a problem with me agreeing with you?

I'm not prepared to mislynch. I'm not prepared to lynch Gova right now and just hope for the best. I'm merely saying that lynching Gova (later) seems like a relatively sound choice to me at this point in the game.

What makes you think Swiss could be Gova's scumbuddy now? You seemed pretty certain that wasn't a possibility before.

Yeah, seriously. I was kind of expecting to come back to more posts than this. Is Gova still semi-V/LA or whatever? I feel like we're kind of waiting on him to get in this game more.

To make this post a little more worth its space on the internet, I'll just say that a statement like this:

especially at this point in the game, is so scummy it's scary.

Ehhhhh. Want more consensus on this. Chibo, Swiss, you feel alright with this? Gova, if you're capable of speaking up, this would be the time to do it.

[/Collapse]

Comparing Gova to Circus is like comparing Night and Day.

Please read over these as well and do a comparison between the two.

I might as well do one for Nabe/Swiss when I get up in the morning.... (z_z) I need some sleep.

 

[Circus]

Circus, when two scum when two scum are the only lynch choices for a day, and you're one of the scum that is a lynch choice, what do you do?

I'm sorry if this seems like I'm being an ***, but is this you scum-slipping? Kind of looks like it could be. I mean, this is you referring to yourself as scum, is it not? Also, who is the other scum that you are considering to be the other lynch choice today?

Also, what do you think is scummy about me? Seems like you're willing to lynch me without a case, but you weren't willing to lynch Nabe without one. Kinda curious about this.

I don't really see why you feel that way. I don't think I'm holding you to a different standard than I've held Nabe. I wanted to wait to lynch Nabe yesterday because I wanted him to have a fair chance to defend himself, same as I'm doing with you. Though, to be honest, had I known we were about to get ****ed over by Glyph being modkilled, I probably would have tried to accelerate Nabe's lynch yesterDay. Regardless, Nabe's done a nice job of making me think he's town toDay, which further narrows my options. Whether he's faking it or not, Nabe has at least spent toDay looking like he's really scumhunting and trying to fit the pieces of this puzzle together. You have not. In fact, it seems like you've only showed up to post toDay because the heat is now on you. Whether Nabe is town or scum, he's playing the game better than you are.

Also, why is that statement scummy? I'm having a hard time pinning down my relative "scumminess" as I feel people have been flipping on whether I'm town or not all game.

You have been somewhat difficult to pin down. You're probably the most enigmatic person left in this game. But of course, by D5 of a game, mysteriousness starts to just smell scummy.

But the specific statement that you're referring to is scummy because it is absolutely not something a townie would say. Especially not in mylo. If you are town, then lynching you doesn't just mean that you would be exiting the game. It means that you would lose. It means that town, as a whole, would lose. At this stage in the game, scum can afford to lose a player and still win. Town cannot. If you are town, and you care at all about meeting your win condition, you should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. I believe I said this to Swiss before: Rolling over and dying is what scum does.

I'll get to reading everything J's been posting in a bit. Just wanted to get this post made.

 

[Gova]

I'm sorry if this seems like I'm being an ***, but is this you scum-slipping? Kind of looks like it could be. I mean, this is you referring to yourself as scum, is it not? Also, who is the other scum that you are considering to be the other lynch choice today?

It's not reffering to myself as scum, I don't see how it could. This is more to understand why you think Gheb deflected to J instead of actually distancing himself from him, because D2 they were the only two up for lynch. It doesn't matter who the other scum is, just that you're one of them and the lynch choice is either your or your scum buddy. What would do? Deflect onto someone else, distance from your buddy so it doesn't look like you're both scum? That was kind of what I was getting at. Also, accepting the fact that I might be lynched doesn't mean I'm going to roll over and die.

 

[Circus]

If I were in Gheb's place on D2, I wouldn't have deflected to a scumbuddy. Distancing, sure, but I wouldn't throw support on his lynch. With Gheb's vote on him, J almost got for real lynched on D2. It was close. Since I wasn't here on D2, I don't know exactly how the timing and the online statuses of people lined up, but I feel like Gheb wouldn't have let his scumbuddy get so close to being lynched when a No Lynch was an option. It is my opinion that Gheb's push on J was too strong for them to be buddies. And again, if scum decided they were going to have Gheb push on J, I don't get why J wouldn't have pushed back harder. I feel like I've said this about ten times by now.

Also, be real with me for a second. Have you been able to keep up with the goings-on of the last few Days? Because it seems like the cases you have on people are built entirely upon the events of the first couple of Days of this game.

 

[Gova]

Game days or Real days? I assume you mean game days. I have been keeping up with the game. Yeah so stuff starts and D1 and I continually add stuff to it. Are you saying I shouldn't be using earlier days at all?

 

[Circus]

No, using earlier Days is fine. It just seems like they're the only Days informing your opinions on people. You say you find Swiss townie largely due to his D2 play. You find J scummy due to his play around the Kuz lynch on D1. You're going back to the way Gheb played on D2 and whether or not he bussed people. That's all well and good, but I don't see you doing this for D3 (it's short, but important imo), D4, or even toDay. Seems like maybe you aren't looking at the bigger picture here.

 

[Circus]

Also, yes, I meant game Days. That's why I capitalized it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

No, using earlier Days is fine. It just seems like they're the only Days informing your opinions on people. You say you find Swiss townie largely due to his D2 play. You find J scummy due to his play around the Kuz lynch on D1. You're going back to the way Gheb played on D2 and whether or not he bussed people. That's all well and good, but I don't see you doing this for D3 (it's short, but important imo), D4, or even toDay. Seems like maybe you aren't looking at the bigger picture here.

What specifically do you mean by the bolded? What do you find important about D3?