Luigi's low tier?

[Possum Awsome]

Hey,

I just started playing with Luigi (I main Marth), and I was wondering what makes Luigi so bad as to put him so low on the tier system?

Luigi has some of the best air attacks, his wavedash to dsmash is insane (or to charged upsmash), and he's pretty unpredictable. Is there something about him I'm missing that makes him bad, or do people just not play with him?

 

[Lixivium]

Luigi is slow and floaty in the air; lack of aerial mobility is common to all low tier characters.

Plus his recovery is like one of the worst in the game.

 

[calmchaos]

honestly, I have always wondered myself.
But his recovery isn't too good. Especially if the player cannot tornado up well.

And sometimes when I try to shield grab I get pushed back because of luigi's low friction.

I'm interested in what people say here.

 

[KevinM]

honestly, I have always wondered myself.
But his recovery isn't too good. Especially if the player cannot tornado up well.

And sometimes when I try to shield grab I get pushed back because of luigi's low friction.

I'm interested in what people say here.

Err Lixivium pretty much just owned this thread.. look right above you thats what keeps luigi back so far

 

[calmchaos]

Err Lixivium pretty much just owned this thread.. look right above you thats what keeps luigi back so far

sorry.... He posted while i was typing.
Thought there might be more

 

[Rollz]

His recovery is lame, unless you can tornado recover, other then that i think Luigi is quite versitile and has advantages on many characters.

 

[Silent Wolf]

i dont consider luigi low tier.

 

[mrb1tch3s]

Luigi....really isnt low tier...i just think people cant and wont take enough time to perfect him because luigi takes a while to make him a good fighter...
2nd: His recov is TOO GOOD...he can make distance but not height...spike without meteor jump = death... but if hes far away chances are that he is high up and can get back...
i think that his weakness against getting his jumps taken away and the people that cant handle his low friction make him low tier comparitively.

 

[nublet06]

Luigi is as good as your opponent wants him to be.

if the guy sucks at DI.....doesnt know what to do when you bust out that crazy wavedash....and doesnt know how easy it is to edgehog luigi...then luigi can do pretty dang well. there is a reaons some people think luigis recovery is amazing and others think it sucks. its because some people know how to edge gaurd and others dont ahha.

now if your playing somebody that knows how to propery camp luigi, properly gimp luigi, and properly combo luigi your gonna start getting pissed off that you play luigi.

 

[Rollz]

If they're more Luigi players he would go up in the tier list, tier list isnt everything though.

 

[Pakman]

Luigi is low tier for the same reason DK is low tier.

No really well known player ***** with them like they do with the other characters. I think if the tier list is reevaluated. DK would move up because of Bum if he traveled more. We need Luigi players to start traveling more. I don't know where Ka-Master is from, but I am assuming whatever is the opposite of my area (Philadelphia). I am pretty sure I am the only Luigi main that is still active in the atlantic north. (Pimp Luigi hasn't been around lately.)

 

[Ultra Luigi]

He should at least be at the bottom of mid.

I remember when he used be somewhere in high tier, above Mario and Doc, but that was a loooooong time ago.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Luigi is as good as your opponent wants him to be.

if the guy sucks at DI.....doesnt know what to do when you bust out that crazy wavedash....and doesnt know how easy it is to edgehog luigi...then luigi can do pretty dang well. there is a reaons some people think luigis recovery is amazing and others think it sucks. its because some people know how to edge gaurd and others dont ahha.

now if your playing somebody that knows how to propery camp luigi, properly gimp luigi, and properly combo luigi your gonna start getting pissed off that you play luigi.

Ehh, that's not entirely true now. While camping, getting gimped and and properly comboe'd are all pretty hard to deal with, it's still possible to make Luigi a tough match-up for the other person. Definately not easy, but possible. You just have to apply everthing Luigi has. (Emphasis on everything)

There's always different ways to deal with all of that stuff. Some more ways than others though.

I mean, let's look at camping: Against a Falco, all you have to do is learn how to powershield like 1 in 10 lasers, (which is easier than people think) and then approach the Falco as fast as possible, and then stick to him with every aerial and jab you can muster until he gets hit/grabbed. For Fox, do the same except you have to be more patient, and always try to wait for the slightest chance of an opening. Against Peach, catch her turnips unless she's baiting you into an attack. It's as simple as that. Catching turnips is about 3x as easy as powershielding, btw. If she's camping, chances are she's not going to be baiting you. And you have to take advantage of that.

Against getting gimped, you just have to make sure you don't make some move that was only half thought through, which gets you killed. You may even find that you often have to make a move that will give you punishable lag, but I assure you it's better than getting gimped. And of course, it may sound a bit harsh, but you really have to always make sure you have the tornado recovery, and you have to be able to do the tornado recovery.

As for getting properly comboed, the only characters that can make a big enough difference in the match by those combos are the ones who get comboed and ledgegaurded/tech-chased easy themselves. You just have to make sure you don't miss any of those opportunities to do so.

Soo...basically, you have to play very near perfectly with Luigi to deal with those things. That's just how it is.

 

[KevinM]

Which Ka-Master does btw

Ka-Master four stocks people with his weeg at his will

 

[El HP]

To me Luigi is a solid character with flaws but at the same time with potential great aerials, combos and great ground mobility a character hard to master at the same time.

Im not american so I don't use that tier system but if I were to decide I would place Luigi in the middle tier.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Soo...basically, you have to play very near perfectly with Luigi to deal with those things. That's just how it is.

It's like Lord HDL says....the tier system is partially set up by ease of use. Meaning as Luigi, you can play a top tier character and hold your own, but you need to be skilled as Luigi, but Luigi is harder to master than a lot of characters, so you have your work cut out for you.

btw I main Link (duh) so that's why I'm quoting a Link player in a Luigi forum

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Luigi, depends, hes low tier if he doesn't misfire, but when he starts misfiring, I'd say hes top!

 

[BDawgPHD]

Luigi, depends, hes low tier if he doesn't misfire, but when he starts misfiring, I'd say hes top!

Not really, because it wouldn't be consistent enough, and there's a good chance it'll get blocked, or stopped by a laser or something xD

 

[Rollz]

Luigi, depends, hes low tier if he doesn't misfire, but when he starts misfiring, I'd say hes top!

lol, good joke.

 

[mrb1tch3s]

LOL....yES...misfire = top tier...godly attack and recov lol...

 

[maelstrom218]

He's "low tier" because he has bad matchups against almost everyone above him in the tier list. That's all.

What Ka-Master said about being forced to play perfectly as Luigi can be used as a measure of how good the character is in general. With Marth, if you happen to mis-space a hit, you've still got a good bit of sword between yourself and the opponent. With Fox, if you screw up a combo, you've got sheer speed to cover up your mistakes. With Peach, you just spam random **** and you can always cover your *** if you mess up due to her high priority.

The thing is, with all those Top/Upper tiers, you can afford to make a mistake because the inherent character advantages are just so overwhelming. The lower down you go on the tier list, a mistake often means suffering a huge chunk of damage or a loss of a stock, because you miss opportunities, miss chances to KO, miss chances to land that sweet combo. . .if you mess up, you lose.

Mistakes have far greater repercussions when playing low tiers than if you're playing as top tiers.

 

[Rollz]

Very well put *claps*

 

[nublet06]

He's "low tier" because he has bad matchups against almost everyone above him in the tier list. That's all.

What Ka-Master said about being forced to play perfectly as Luigi can be used as a measure of how good the character is in general. With Marth, if you happen to mis-space a hit, you've still got a good bit of sword between yourself and the opponent. With Fox, if you screw up a combo, you've got sheer speed to cover up your mistakes. With Peach, you just spam random **** and you can always cover your *** if you mess up due to her high priority.

The thing is, with all those Top/Upper tiers, you can afford to make a mistake because the inherent character advantages are just so overwhelming. The lower down you go on the tier list, a mistake often means suffering a huge chunk of damage or a loss of a stock, because you miss opportunities, miss chances to KO, miss chances to land that sweet combo. . .if you mess up, you lose.

Mistakes have far greater repercussions when playing low tiers than if you're playing as top tiers.

quoted for amazingness.

it used to be really easy for me to say "bull SH** luigi is way too good for low tier." but the more i play this game and the more amazing talent i get to play down in here in socal i realize why luigi is where he is at. he still should be higher tho.

 

[Pakman]

All these arguments are about luigi vs high and top tier characters. What about mid tier. What does Mario have over Luigi?

 

[nublet06]

lol mario doesnt have much. but some middle tiers are def pretty good on luigi.

Ganon can be scary but his speed kind of messes him up. i dont get to play many ganons so i could probly get messed up if i ever ran in to one.

jiggs is very hard for luigi

Doc can be VERY problematic

samus can be annoying if she is super duper spammy and smart about it

and even link in low tier is annyoing

 

[Lixivium]

He's "low tier" because he has bad matchups against almost everyone above him in the tier list. That's all.

Luigi's got bad matchups below him too - namely ZELDA. She destroys him worse than Sheik IMO .

 

[Micheloxx]

ok, luigi is a low tier because of that if u hit him, hell just fly like in 80 percent and when u start flying, it`ll be harder to hit opponent, floaty and lack in air, so, thats makes him low tier man

 

[maelstrom218]

ok, luigi is a low tier because of that if u hit him, hell just fly like in 80 percent and when u start flying, it`ll be harder to hit opponent, floaty and lack in air, so, thats makes him low tier man

I suppose that's why Peach is soooooooo low-tier, what with all her floatiness when she gets hit.

Someone mentioned the Mario vs. Luigi matchup--in this particular matchup, Luigi actually has the edge. Mostly because Mario's combos never have, and never really will work on floaties (which is why he has trouble with Peach/Samus/Jiggs), and he simply gets ***** by horizontal KO moves, even when you factor in decent DI (like Falcon's knee, or, in this case, Luigi's d-air/chop). Mario also has trouble when it comes to characters that have very good rushdown tactics (like Flaco, Falcon), and Luigi's wavedash rushdown is bloody awesome.

The only real thing that Mario has on Luigi is edgeguarding, but Luigi can edgeguard Mario just as easily.

And if you're asking why Luigi isn't higher than Mario, it's because Mario tends to fare better against Top/Upper tiers than Luigi does.

 

[TobiasXK]

Mael hit it perfectly, just like he always does. Lui is low tier because he has bad high-tier matchups.

Mario is considered better than Luigi because he has better high-tier matchups.

 

[Pakman]

After looking at the tier list there are A LOT of characters in low tier/bottom tier. Luigi has 13 characters above him and 12 below him. He is right in the middle. I agree with his placement looking at it that way.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

I suppose that's why Peach is soooooooo low-tier, what with all her floatiness when she gets hit.

Someone mentioned the Mario vs. Luigi matchup--in this particular matchup, Luigi actually has the edge. Mostly because Mario's combos never have, and never really will work on floaties (which is why he has trouble with Peach/Samus/Jiggs), and he simply gets ***** by horizontal KO moves, even when you factor in decent DI (like Falcon's knee, or, in this case, Luigi's d-air/chop). Mario also has trouble when it comes to characters that have very good rushdown tactics (like Flaco, Falcon), and Luigi's wavedash rushdown is bloody awesome.

The only real thing that Mario has on Luigi is edgeguarding, but Luigi can edgeguard Mario just as easily.

And if you're asking why Luigi isn't higher than Mario, it's because Mario tends to fare better against Top/Upper tiers than Luigi does.

You should like...tell that to Phanna's match-up chart thing. Because I believe it still says the match-up is in Mario's favor. I really don't know where or how they got the information for the match-up, and I don't think anyone has really discussed it in the thread. I tried mentioning it a few times, but basically just got ignored. It was pretty dumb.

 

[Pakman]

Yeah I don't trust that chart.

 

[Melo-tone]

Luigi is low-tier because the tier list must oppress the Luigi's because it fears the power that Luigi would hold if more people played him.

Well. At least thats what I think-- He's too slow, floaty and not enough good Luigi players. Luigi can be fast but it's hard to get a combination of fast and float.

 

[RAM]

I can't say anything that has'nt been said but anyone I have'nt posted in the Luigi thread in a long time. I came from INN 5 about a month ago and got 17th place out of 116 I even took a round from Tink's Shiek which was not easy.

his recovery IMO is not that bad. just learn how to DI really well, and learn to Tornado, if you know these things then you won't think of his recovery being all that bad. it also could'nt hurt to Air Dodge if you know they will edge hog. it might just lead to you being knocked off in the opposite direction but you still have a chance of getting back on the stage.

all and all I like him being labled as a Low Tier it make winning with him more fun and he's fun as hell to play!

 

[Lixivium]

his recovery IMO is not that bad. just learn how to DI really well, and learn to Tornado, if you know these things then you won't think of his recovery being all that bad. it also could'nt hurt to Air Dodge if you know they will edge hog. it might just lead to you being knocked off in the opposite direction but you still have a chance of getting back on the stage.

The best way to edgeguard Luigi is just to go out and hit him. Then come back for the edgehog. Seriously if the other player knows this at all you're in for a rough match.

 

[RAM]

The best way to edgeguard Luigi is just to go out and hit him. Then come back for the edgehog. Seriously if the other player knows this at all you're in for a rough match.

I know that, all I'm saying is that his recovery is not complete crap, if you can DI really well going up and you can Tornado with pressing the B button around 10 or more times you can get to the point where you will be above the edge. but if they have a certain char like Peach or someone with God Recovery then everything I said is pretty much useless.

 

[SexualHarassmentPanda]

all and all I like him being labled as a Low Tier it make winning with him more fun and he's fun as hell to play!

I agree completely with that and if he's not in mid tier or hi tier just keep winning matches and prove that he should be

 

[robyextreme]

edit: removed

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

I know that, all I'm saying is that his recovery is not complete crap, if you can DI really well going up and you can Tornado with pressing the B button around 10 or more times you can get to the point where you will be above the edge. but if they have a certain char like Peach or someone with God Recovery then everything I said is pretty much useless.

I agree. Though I might even go as far as to say that it's not that bad even against characters like peach. And everything you said about DIing well and being able to do the down-B good completely applies and helps out immensely when trying to recover against a character with good recovery themselves.

The fact is, it's very difficult to ledge-gaurd a smart Luigi that knows how to use Luigi's recovery to it's fullest, and is able to do so, so long as the Luigi has everything there is to have when recovering. (That is; second jump, charged down-B, and some room to do Green missile and still be able to space things afterwards)

We all obviously know that Luigi's almost at the opponent's complete mercy if he doesn't have a second jump and down-B.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Many people see "low tier" as a negative, or think it means "not good". But I don't think this is true. When I think of low tier characters, I just feel like they have a few more shortcomings and difficulties than other higher tiered characters.

Luigi has a lot of strong points, however he is hampered by his few weak points (recovery, lack of aerial mobility, etc.)

Low tier doesn't take into account the positive points of a character, it's the negative points that put them into low tier.