Luigi vs. Lucas

[kigbariom]

I have a friend who plays as Lucas. He's getting much better and him and I are a pretty good match up. So I have developed some tactics off stage like dair spikes and d-throw nair, but when we fight close up he constantly pulls off his up-smash (anyone who knows lucas knows that is really annoying). Besides that I was wondering if anyone has some advice on how to beat him, maybe a midair combo or an up-b.

Thanks

 

[CR4SH]

OK, IMO lucas has a small advantage in this match. The first reason is that he has good, low lag aerials with more range than luigi's. You can, however use this to your advantage in mindgames. Lucas is strong in the air, but not as strong as luigi. You can, though, get them to believe the opposite. Most wins I have against lucases are at least partially based on getting them to believe early that they have an advantage in the air, and baiting them into exploiting it. It takes them usually at least until the last stock to figure out that they don't. If not into the second match.

The biggest thing to take advantage of though, is their HUGE vulnerability on a couple of moves. The first is usmash. Lucas leaves himself completely open when he misses it, however it's easy to get yourself caught up in the back end of it in trying to punish. So be careful. The second is pk thunder. Lucas is immobile and vulnerable for at least a second, to a second and a half, when he uses pk thunder. This is especially because he has absolutely no expectation that you'll approach him from the front when he uses it, since it can be such a devastating attack. Get your shoryuken timing right and this should get you at least one easy KO in any match.

You simply can not be spammy with fireballs in this match. Psi magnet will take too much advantage of this.

The general strategy is stay airborne, if there are platforms, stay above him, and feign vulnerability. Being airborne will allow you to use your air supremacy and be agressive. Staying above will bait him into using his laggy moves. If you can get right into his face, you want to, just like everyone (except snake). Just stay away from the 1-2 meters away, right in front of him (PK fire) range and you should do fine.

edit: I just re-read your post, and your problem with him spamming usmash when you're right in his face can be easily turned to your advantage. The move is VERY telegraphed, so depending on how close you are and what his % is, as soon as he starts the move either dsmash (go-to damage builder), jab into anything (if you're close. Jab-grab if he's low%), ftilt (if he's at the edge of the usmash hitbox) or fsmash (if he's at killing %). Even straight into a shoryuken if he's THAT close. Lucas being usmash spammy is something you should be able to take a very large advantage of.

edit again, the one option I hadn't covered, and now that I think about it, is your best possible situation, is if he's out of your ftilt range, but still in his smash range (though I don't know off the top of my head if this even ever happens). You can simply take a couple walking steps back, wait a couple frames, then run in for the shoryuken. I suppose you could even do this from ftilt range. One way or another, this should be a big advantage for you, not for him.

 

[elheber]

Luigi doesn't have many "true" combos. Especially in the air. You just kind of have to wing it.

Lucas' uSmash is pretty punishable. You get plenty of time to see it coming, plenty of time to interrupt it, and you get plenty of time afterward to punish him. I'm more afraid of nAir spamming Lucases.

 

[ALiAsVee]

Luigi doesn't have many "true" combos. Especially in the air. You just kind of have to wing it.

Lucas' uSmash is pretty punishable. You get plenty of time to see it coming, plenty of time to interrupt it, and you get plenty of time afterward to punish him. I'm more afraid of nAir spamming Lucases.

No one has true combos, but what about bair WoP? Thats something, I know its not 100% though. Can anyone WoP with uair? My friend's mario can, but i can't seem to get it done. I think Luigi has more knockback?

 

[Delta_BP26]

Luigi has true combos. Others do too. Just... very few.

 

[M15t3R E]

Lucas recovers 16% for 1 of Luigi's fireballs

As usual, approaching with Down-B will work well here. Also keep in mind that as usual, Luigi wins in the air in this match-up.

Note: I counter certain characters with Luigi that my Pikachu can't handle too well. Lucas is one of those characters.

 

[hippiedude92]

No one has true combos, but what about bair WoP? Thats something, I know its not 100% though. Can anyone WoP with uair? My friend's mario can, but i can't seem to get it done. I think Luigi has more knockback?

I WoP reverse upair like BEAST. I Wop it moar than Bair because of his higher priority on the 45 degree side and has lesser knockback I'll post more later.

 

[ALiAsVee]

I WoP reverse upair like BEAST. I Wop it moar than Bair because of his higher priority on the 45 degree side and has lesser knockback I'll post more later.

Hmm, I should try that more. I love the bair though :3, but I'm trying to add more uairs in my game, its a bit less predictable.

 

[hippiedude92]

When people are on the platform, I advise them to GTFO! I usually land a decent 2 reverse upairs but if they're reaction is pretty ******** I land like a beast with 4-5 reverse upairs. Reverse > Regular, higher range/priority but less knockback but very easy to string.


Oh and the lucas matchup, lucas board said 40-60 that luigi was at disadvantage but to me, i **** alot of lucas but probably cause i dont play alot of good ones vice versa so i was leaning on a 50-50 or 55-45 matchup.


Oh, camping fireballs to psi mangnet and trying to punish it is ******** cause its 0 lag and does damage =/

 

[kigbariom]

edit: I just re-read your post, and your problem with him spamming usmash when you're right in his face can be easily turned to your advantage. The move is VERY telegraphed, so depending on how close you are and what his % is, as soon as he starts the move either dsmash (go-to damage builder), jab into anything (if you're close. Jab-grab if he's low%), ftilt (if he's at the edge of the usmash hitbox) or fsmash (if he's at killing %). Even straight into a shoryuken if he's THAT close. Lucas being usmash spammy is something you should be able to take a very large advantage of.

Thanks Cr4sh, I think now I can have an advantage over him.

 

[hippiedude92]

OK, IMO lucas has a small advantage in this match. The first reason is that he has good, low lag aerials with more range than luigi's. You can, however use this to your advantage in mindgames. Lucas is strong in the air, but not as strong as luigi. You can, though, get them to believe the opposite. Most wins I have against lucases are at least partially based on getting them to believe early that they have an advantage in the air, and baiting them into exploiting it. It takes them usually at least until the last stock to figure out that they don't. If not into the second match.

The biggest thing to take advantage of though, is their HUGE vulnerability on a couple of moves. The first is usmash. Lucas leaves himself completely open when he misses it, however it's easy to get yourself caught up in the back end of it in trying to punish. So be careful. The second is pk thunder. Lucas is immobile and vulnerable for at least a second, to a second and a half, when he uses pk thunder. This is especially because he has absolutely no expectation that you'll approach him from the front when he uses it, since it can be such a devastating attack. Get your shoryuken timing right and this should get you at least one easy KO in any match.

You simply can not be spammy with fireballs in this match. Psi magnet will take too much advantage of this.

The general strategy is stay airborne, if there are platforms, stay above him, and feign vulnerability. Being airborne will allow you to use your air supremacy and be agressive. Staying above will bait him into using his laggy moves. If you can get right into his face, you want to, just like everyone (except snake). Just stay away from the 1-2 meters away, right in front of him (PK fire) range and you should do fine.

edit: I just re-read your post, and your problem with him spamming usmash when you're right in his face can be easily turned to your advantage. The move is VERY telegraphed, so depending on how close you are and what his % is, as soon as he starts the move either dsmash (go-to damage builder), jab into anything (if you're close. Jab-grab if he's low%), ftilt (if he's at the edge of the usmash hitbox) or fsmash (if he's at killing %). Even straight into a shoryuken if he's THAT close. Lucas being usmash spammy is something you should be able to take a very large advantage of.

edit again, the one option I hadn't covered, and now that I think about it, is your best possible situation, is if he's out of your ftilt range, but still in his smash range (though I don't know off the top of my head if this even ever happens). You can simply take a couple walking steps back, wait a couple frames, then run in for the shoryuken. I suppose you could even do this from ftilt range. One way or another, this should be a big advantage for you, not for him.

Wut? Mindgames? Mindgame's doesn't exist in match up discussion and what not. It's unviersal to everyone. And if the lucas does a running hyphen upsmash which is easily seen, just airdodge and punish accordily. Your probably making mistakes which is why hes punishing you too.

Oh and lucas in the air almost slightly rules it because of his disjointed hitboxs, his Fair and upair is craptard, but his bair/dair can spike has hella hitboxes.

Keep it in the air, don't keep it in the ground because lucas ground game ***** yours because again disjointed hitboxes.

Also fireballs can still be used in turn of canceling his PK fire and his PK thunder 2.

Dair > Nair is classic starter combo for luigi.

 

[Neon Ness]

Wut? Mindgames? Mindgame's doesn't exist in match up discussion and what not. It's unviersal to everyone. And if the lucas does a running hyphen upsmash which is easily seen, just airdodge and punish accordily. Your probably making mistakes which is why hes punishing you too.

Oh and lucas in the air almost slightly rules it because of his disjointed hitboxs, his Fair and upair is craptard, but his bair/dair can spike has hella hitboxes.

Keep it in the air, don't keep it in the ground because lucas ground game ***** yours because again disjointed hitboxes.

Also fireballs can still be used in turn of canceling his PK fire and his PK thunder 2.

Dair > Nair is classic starter combo for luigi.

As a Lucas main, I sorta disagree about air dodging his up Smash, because it lingers like crazy, longer than the duration of an air dodge. The best thing to do is to get the heck outta the way so as not to be near him if you see it coming. But you are right about Luigi's down air and neutral air attacks, I can't seem to avoid those very well. Also, before you think of trying a wall of pain, keep in mind how fast Lucas' forward air comes out. It's really fast. Probably not faster than Luigi's attacks, but still, beware. And of course watch out for down air/back air spiking.

 

[chic]

i haven't used a shoryuken against a lucas for a long time lol

 

[MasterToshima]

Well, my main against my secondary.

If u posted this on these boards, that probably means that u search for advice on how to play Luigi. Now I can tell you that, but I'm sure you already got it from the other members, besides, Luigi is a simplce character so reading the guide once or twice BUT A LOT of training and matches and U'll do just fine.

FOr Lucas help you should post in the Lucas boards but since my secondary is Lucas i'll just give you some tips n tricks.

Lucas is a very complicated characters, maybe the one with most if not the one with most(besides Link and Yoshi and some other chars) AT's. A lucas palyer also uses a lot of mindgames, especialy PK Thunder. Watch out for B-sticking if ur friend is rly into Lucas and changed his C-stick to B. B sticking is some srs mindgaemz(XD), but srsly, It's not something to mess with lol. Also watch out for SH>Dair, It's a move almost impossible to dodge and a ever worse it can be repeated many times, so spot dodge if he short hops close to you. Lucas's Bair can spike. Yes, spike if u didn't know that untill now. I think Dair can spike to but Bair is Lucas's spking tool. Nex thing is D-tilt. If Lucas gets close to, like really close(you know that moment when u just feel right to FIRE PUNCH ur opponet with Luigi? Like, the moment when u and ur opponet are standing in practicly fuzed? Well, that close), watch outfor that coz that thing can rack up many many hits, I think it's one of best Dtilts in teh game. PK freeze. Yes, PK freeze. A pro Lucas players don't use PK freeze untill your opponet is off guard, that one time, when u r at least expecting a PK freeze, Pro will use it and freeze u so he can pull of Usmash. Oh and last but not least, Lucas's Usmash. Lucas has second most powerful Usmash in the game(except Ivysaur), but I think it has most hitbox. It is VERY powerfull so never get right above Lucas. It also needs some time to pull off so it's kinda a slow move. Well that is only fair, considering the power and space it has.

I hope that helped, now these r just things about how Lucas does in a battle. I can't really give u any tips and tricks on hiow to fight a Lucas sorry, well, except this one(gimping).

To easily gimp lucas all u have to do is cancel his Up b, now, pro lucas players usualy recover right above the stage to sweetspot the edge. Now in that case don't be near the edge cuz they can change their mind and knock right into you. Also I suggest not trying ti gimp Lucas while he's performing a PK thunder UNDER the stage, small chance u'll do it besides ull get gimped easily. ALSO, one last tip. DO NOT, I repeat DO not be that stupid to ledge grab when lucas tries to recover, NEVER. Not only the PK thunder will get u out of edge, you will most likely get gimped.

There, I hope that helped, that was a lot to type XD

 

[elheber]

i haven't used a shoryuken against a lucas for a long time lol

That's because you play pros that don't spam the uSmash. kigbariom has an opportunity to FJP like crazy that most of us don't have. He's a lucky bastage.

MasterT, I main the Weeg and fall back on the second Motha' Brotha Lucas too!! What a small world.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

A u-smash against Luigi is the equivalent of a death sentence in this match up. Anytime he uses it should be a free shoryuken.

 

[hippiedude92]

The only problem is that you can't spotdodge it and if you shield it you get pushed wayyyy too far =/

 

[MasterToshima]

I main the Weeg and fall back on the second Motha' Brotha Lucas too!! What a small world.

Yup, small world

MasterT

FInally somone spells my name short right XD

It's either MasterToshima, MasterT or MT, call me tht o u will be fire punched

 

[elheber]

But I like Toshi more.
>_>
<_<
*Shields*

 

[MasterToshima]

But I like Toshi more.
>_>
<_<
*Shields*

uhh, k, u can call me Toshi

 

[ALiAsVee]

uhh, k, u can call me Toshi

I like Toshi too :3.

 

[MasterToshima]

Awright than, Toshi it is

 

[CR4SH]

That's because you play pros that don't spam the uSmash. kigbariom has an opportunity to FJP like crazy that most of us don't have. He's a lucky bastage.

Thanks for making my point for me! It's good to see someone understands what I mean when i write

The only problem is that you can't spotdodge it and if you shield it you get pushed wayyyy too far =/

But you can, certainly, and without fail, get out of the way, and run back in. He's got lots of lag on the back end that's unaccompanied by any danger or hitboxes. Walk away -> run in -> shield cancel-> shoryuken -> profit.

Also though, you can get good players to use laggy moves. Just make them think they're safe.

 

[MasterToshima]

Also though, you can get good players to use laggy moves. Just make them think they're safe.

For sure. But u gotta have handling the mathc perfectly. Mingaemz <3

 

[elheber]

Walk away -> run in -> shield cancel-> shoryuken -> profit.

Oooh!! Great opportunity for OoS FJP!! That is the sex!

 

[Player01]

my brother likes lucas and i fight him all the time with luigi. things that are important to remember are:

1 Recovering high is better against lucas because his Dsmash is extremely difficult to get past when trying to grab the ledge. be careful for Usmash though.

2 its easier to just power shield his pk fire than to cancel it with a fireball mainly because of the flames that shoot out after you cancel pk fire. And its easier to get closer to lucas when power shielding because luigi slides a bit.

3 Luigi nair beats lucas nair. Lucas' nair is lagless if completed in the air and can be follwed up with anything like a Fsmash.

 

[MasterToshima]

my brother likes lucas and i fight him all the time with luigi. things that are important to remember are:

1 Recovering high is better against lucas because his Dsmash is extremely difficult to get past when trying to grab the ledge. be careful for Usmash though.

2 its easier to just power shield his pk fire than to cancel it with a fireball mainly because of the flames that shoot out after you cancel pk fire. And its easier to get closer to lucas when power shielding because luigi slides a bit.

3 Luigi nair beats lucas nair. Lucas' nair is lagless if completed in the air and can be follwed up with anything like a Fsmash.

Welcome to Smash world forums lol.

Quite the knowledge u have 4 somone who has 1 post

 

[hippiedude92]

my brother likes lucas and i fight him all the time with luigi. things that are important to remember are:

1 Recovering high is better against lucas because his Dsmash is extremely difficult to get past when trying to grab the ledge. be careful for Usmash though.

2 its easier to just power shield his pk fire than to cancel it with a fireball mainly because of the flames that shoot out after you cancel pk fire. And its easier to get closer to lucas when power shielding because luigi slides a bit.

3 Luigi nair beats lucas nair. Lucas' nair is lagless if completed in the air and can be follwed up with anything like a Fsmash.

1: Lucas has moar edgeguarding tricks than luigi (i.e, dair/bair spikes, PK thunder, PK freeze, PK fire, dsmash pressure on the edge). If you do recover high (i.e ledge jump to rising tornado), majority of the time they'll go for a hyphen upsmash.

2. I would do this, but wifi b*tchs at me =/ If he SHs the Pk fire, you can crawl your way lol or, SH fireball > tornado etc.

3. Good lucas's autocancel their Nair =/ just fyi.


Oh and powershielding to OOS Shoryuken-ing the lucas upsmash, you have to be perfect timing because if you dont power shield it, you'll take a full blown hit meaning you'll slide so you gotta be accurate on the timing.

 

[LinkStrifeLeonhart]

At campus there are two people that play well with Lucas (better than I can play, anyway.) To make a long story short, they've always battered me around and I've always lost. Then came this afternoon where I fought one of them. At first he used Toon Link, but after I beat that he chose Lucas. I got a little intimidated at first due to the past history, but I kept my mind up.

I pretty much played defensively , but aggressively so. Take the up-smash that is being talked about, I kept it safe by just tossing a fireball his way. It does damage and I can't slip up and get hit by it. It also helps that after playing those two for so long that I've gotten used to the moves and when they like to pull them off. I never went for the FJP (I did so a lot again TLink since he would miss dairs) so he couldn't punish me if I missed. I was forced to approach with a tornado quite a bit, though. Luckily he wasn't able to really adapt to it.

In short I guess you could say I played a poking game that go around. I mainly would pull off triple jabs or ftilts or running dsmashes. I piled on small damage until it added up to a fsmash or a dair. Of course mileage will vary, but this is how I came out triumphant in no short thanks to the Luigi boards.

tl;dr I beat a Lucas that gave me a lot of trouble in the past because of techniques/strategies I learned from the board and wanted to share.

 

[Player01]

1: Lucas has moar edgeguarding tricks than luigi (i.e, dair/bair spikes, PK thunder, PK freeze, PK fire, dsmash pressure on the edge). If you do recover high (i.e ledge jump to rising tornado), majority of the time they'll go for a hyphen upsmash.

2. I would do this, but wifi b*tchs at me =/ If he SHs the Pk fire, you can crawl your way lol or, SH fireball > tornado etc.

3. Good lucas's autocancel their Nair =/ just fyi.


Oh and powershielding to OOS Shoryuken-ing the lucas upsmash, you have to be perfect timing because if you dont power shield it, you'll take a full blown hit meaning you'll slide so you gotta be accurate on the timing.

1. i know. its so annoying to recover aginst lucas but recovering high eliminates most of those listed options except upsmash of course. if you can see lucas' hyphen upsmash coming you could try to use side b in the opposite direction for a quick escape. might take some lucky guessing though. thats the best i can think of.

2. yeah i love doing this but i have a habit of shielding, luigi does look funny crawling

3. autocancel? what is that exactly. please help.

with your last comment that reminded me of a sweet victory i had the other day because i did get hit with the full attack and slides miles away but just ran back and finished him. my bro got sooo pissed lol

 

[elheber]

Autocanceling is interrupting laggy aerials by jumping upon landing. It's like L-Canceling without the L... so it's automatic (with the exception that you have to jump). Not all characters' aerials can be autocanceled (actually, none of Luigis aerials are autocancelable), which brings me to the following: I didn't know Lucas' nAir can be autocanceled.

Have I really used my secondary that little?

 

[GreaseBeast]

Yeah if people could also post good Lucas vs. Luigi strategies I'd be much obliged. I'm the friend KigB mentions.

 

[MasterToshima]

Yeah if people could also post good Lucas vs. Luigi strategies I'd be much obliged. I'm the friend KigB mentions.

HUH? So no, my hard *** typing to help u is nothing?

Thx a lot, btw read page 1, my post >:o

 

[CR4SH]

I'm pretty sure nair is auto-able. And maybe bair.

 

[kigbariom]

HUH? So no, my hard *** typing to help u is nothing?

Thx a lot, btw read page 1, my post >:o

I really do appreciate you and crash, and everyone who helped its all good advice!