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Luigi = olimar counter?

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,304
Location
Towson MD/Moscow ID
I honestly think Luigi is possibly the best Olimar counter out there, yet on the match up chart he has a nice old red X against him. Every single thing Olimar can do can be out prioritized by Luigi from the air, and if you watch the enemy powershielding as Luigi his nair will go right through Olimar's U smash. Maybe I'm missing something huge, but what could Olimar possibly have up on Luigi?
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Nothing.
The chart is bad.

Luigi doesn't even need to take into the air on this one(though you could). He can literally drive right through Olimar's smash/throw/grab Pikmin spam with the tornado. Everytime the tornado clangs with a pikmin, it stops with no lag and the tornado can be done immediately again. You basically throw luigi at Olimar and win out- then it only takes ~40% damage or so of hits until you will probably land any bair/fair/dair on an Olimar that sends him unable to recover without using his up-B. Then you can just hug the edge and wait, even if his tether does hit you, he's dead. It's an easy win. Olimar literally has nothing effective against luigi in this matchup.
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
The best counter? No. There's plenty of characters I'd rather not fight than Luigi. That being said, I play this matchup a bunch and still think it's Luigi's advantage. Not a huge advantage like Marth vs. Ness, but a "Hey this is really a pain in the ***!" Luigi has much more priority in the air. Tilts are effective against Luigi, though. Tornado can be countered by powershielding all its hits and attacking him during the lag, but I'm probably one of the only players you'll find anywhere who can do that.
 

cheifrocka

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
132
Location
SoCal (909)
i crush my friend's olimar main with my weej, and he's quite good. like it's been said, priority ***** and if you keep the pressure on it's really annoying to ollie.
 

surrepGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
65
Location
Georgia
I was playing my friends olimar and there was definitely a noticeable difference in olimar's effectiveness. Whenever I used the tornado to get close it killed all the pikmin he threw at me including the one for his fmash which surprised me. As others have already said, luigi is better in air. The chart should definitely give luigi a blue check or a big blue check instead of an X.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
I wanna update my input on this, on reflection on playing Olimars who have already learned how Luigi beats most of their moves.

You basically just flat out beat a lot of Olimar's moves. As I've been playing against Olimar some more I see them wising up and not trying to out prioritize the tornado, and instead just shield it and attack you on the tornado's ending lag. That doesn't really matter though, because the rest of your moves still greatly limit Olimar's options.

Because of this, the Olimar's I face resort to using a lot of uptilt and nair, try to space for grabs, and shield a lot(for things like your tornado). The cool thing is is that it's still an uphill fight for them, and both uptilt and nair STILL get beat by luigi's glorious nair. =P

It's definitely a bad chart.
 

SparkEd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
231
NAir beats out their UTilt/NAir?

...Man, I've been timing pretty crappy lately. :[
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Yeah the strong hit nair sure does. As soon as I went from Dair to fair or something to only aerial to fast falled nair, I'd drop through uptilts and nair all the time. It's like a luigi rule of thumb- you can always fall back and rely on the nair!
 

asob4

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,968
Location
Palmdale, CA
it is definitely one of the harder match ups, but not completely in luigi's favor. olimar still has the range and can weave in and out with aerials while luigi is grounded (if ever)
i've played one of the best luigi's i know (ROFL) and i'm able to beat him by knowing what to avoid.
the tornado is a *****, but you can get around it easily.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
No see, I disagree on the range, Olimar loses pretty much all of his effective range here, because of the priority issue. That's the range of all three of his smashes, because dair, nair, fair, and bair will hurt, knock away, and possibly kill the pikmin while still being able to continue and hit olimar, that also means Olimar's pikmin latch isn't going to get him anywhere, then all of Olimar's 4 directional aerials get outranged and beat by Luigi's. Olimar can't grab an airborne opponent and the pikmin is still vulnerable. That leaves Olimar with not much left, mostly his moves that use Olimar himself, and if you consider the quality of those none of them have a whole lot of range at all(even though uptilt and nair are quite good moves for olimar on their own). I agree on the tornado, Luigi's tornado will dominate an Olimar who doesn't know any better but not so if the Olimar knows what's up, but weaving in and out with aerials or using Olimar's range shouldn't be possible either.

I don't contest the point that this isn't a "pick luigi and auto win" completely in his favor match-up or that it's possible for good Olimar's to still pull through, but if we went back to that chart, I'd bet Luigi deserves a blue check and just possibly a big blue check.
 

asob4

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,968
Location
Palmdale, CA
true true
but his multi hit up air can get through some of his aerials (except nair) i'm pretty sure, i'll need to test.
besides that chart is garbage, i've always seen luigi as one of the hardest matchups for olimar since the game came out
 

whut?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
347
Location
long island, NY
I honestly think Luigi is possibly the best Olimar counter out there, yet on the match up chart he has a nice old red X against him. Every single thing Olimar can do can be out prioritized by Luigi from the air, and if you watch the enemy powershielding as Luigi his nair will go right through Olimar's U smash. Maybe I'm missing something huge, but what could Olimar possibly have up on Luigi?

i didnt see it said yet,
luigis downB ***** anything grounded olimar tries to do.
im pretty sure it deflects pikmin(?) and clashes with any other smash attack(?)
luigi isnt a bad counter but hes definitely not the best..
he is too easy to hit...& has no projectile game.
 

Puddin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
1,333
Location
Na'wlans
No projectile game? Green balls of fire are the best projectile in the GAME!! yeah I play a friend who uses Luigi, I usually have a hard time winning but it isn't impossible. I'll have to check on Luigis Tornado, that thing is beast.
 
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