Lucina's counter is broken

[EverdarkAngel]

So I have been playing around a bit trying to unlock characters. I have been maining mostly Robin, as I'm trying to really learn how to use her for online. I got to Lucina and got my butt handed to me a couple of times, so I decided to switch to Ike. I proceeded to go nuts and got her up to about 98% damage, while she was only able to deal 10% to me.
Here's where things get weird. She was trying to get back on the stage, so I had a forward smash charging. As soon as I swung, she did her counter. I hit, she blocked, she hit back. I went flying off the stage as if I'd been the one with massive damage done to me. I only had 10% damage!
Does her counter do some kind of crazy calculations to reverse the knockback that should be applied or is this a bug?

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Damage and knock back is dependent on what hit Lucina. If you hit her with a fully charged Forward Smash then yeah it would launch you pretty far. This is due to the fact that her entire blade is a "Sweetspot" where Marth's blade is only the tip. Trying to hit Lucina with a strong attack can be fatal. I've killed light weights and heavy weights with Counter at early percents. Meta Knight at 90 when he charged a forward smash and Dedede at 110 from a fully charged up smash.

Lucina best waifu obviously.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

This is actually really good to know. I will be careful when picking a move to hit them with. That is pretty scary.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Yeh as scourge said it's because you hit her with a really powerful attack. Especially as Ike.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

Greninja does very well against Lucina. Approach, throw a quick shiriken into her counter, she lags to hell on her missed counter and then just bust her face in. I played a few Marths and Lucinas online and they weren't able to do much of anything against my Greninja and I was barely trying.

 

[EverdarkAngel]

Yeah, the whole thing is kinda nuts. I'm gonna have to make sure to keep an eye out for her online. So far the only real incident was when trying to unlock her, but other than that I haven't had much trouble.

 

[[TSON]]

her shield breaker is crazy i had my shield broken twice over the past 2 hours and then i get a fully charged one to the face which kills at 60/70

x___x

 

[Tino]

I actually found that out myself when I played as her. I countered Shulk's charged up forward smash attack and it literally turned him into a shooting star. I think he was at, like, 70 percent or so damage when that happened.

 

[Einyuri]

Doesn't Lucina's counter work in the same manner that Roy's does? I didn't play much of Roy when I played Melee so I'm not too sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LIQUID12A]

A counter basing itself on the damage percentage of an attack doesn't count as broken. Remember that some attacks are strong yet hard to telegraph. It's actually very rewarding to know what deals high damage so you can accurately predict it and send an opponent flying.

I've killed Bowsers that try and get cheeky with Bowser Bombs, for example. Dude flies faster than a jet if he gets hit.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Counters a bad move.

Just saying :D

 

[warionumbah2]

Counters a bad move.

Just saying :D

yet it can punish so easily and effectively.

Yep it sucks.

 

[Einyuri]

I wouldn't call it bad all around. If you spam it then yeah you'll be left with your ass hanging out to be punished, but if you can actually get a good read and counter it isn't all that bad.

But maybe that's just the casual me talking, lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wouldn't call it bad all around. If you spam it then yeah you'll be left with your *** hanging out to be punished, but if you can actually get a good read and counter it isn't all that bad.

I am saying its a bad move for a number of different reasons.

A character is most dangerous when they have all options available too them. The moment someone picks some option before their opponent does they have committed to some action. As in you are not going to be able to do anything else until counter is over with. Therefore, you had better hope your opponent hits you with a move during the counter period or else your opponent will be thank you for the free hit on them. A free hit in smash could potentially snow ball into you losing a stock if your opponent does it right. When someone says "don't get hit" means avoid giving your opponent free shots on you.

Making reads on an opponent in a risky way is not a very good strategy for most things. If you want to make reads it should be in ways which you cannot get punished very easily. With counters huge cool down it is very risky.

I am not sure how fast the start-up is on counter before you get to the counter window. If its very fast, then you can most certainly use counter very effectively at times when your opponent is forced into following through with an attack. For example, if you see Bowser's bomb attack on you from up above that is a prime example of you know you are about to get hit by the move. There is no reading or anything needed for that move because its start up is quite slow enough for you to be able to see it, then time a counter. Another situation would be a person charging a smash attack as you are falling down on them.

Those are situations in which using counter should be used. While it does has its niche use one can end up finding those situations not occurring very often. Using counter as a read is a bad idea. Plus, the few situations where it is a good idea pop up very rarely. Combing these two aspects counter is going to be a very underused move and therefore to me is a bad move.

The effect of counter is good if it happens. Otherwise, if something never happens it may as not even matter and the move being almost useless. But, its at least still there and a unique trait to lucina ;D

So no, counter is not broken and I see it as quite the opposite.

 

[Einyuri]

I am saying its a bad move for a number of different reasons.

A character is most dangerous when they have all options available too them. The moment someone picks some option before their opponent does they have committed to some action. As in you are not going to be able to do anything else until counter is over with. Therefore, you had better hope your opponent hits you with a move during the counter period or else your opponent will be thank you for the free hit on them. A free hit in smash could potentially snow ball into you losing a stock if your opponent does it right. When someone says "don't get hit" means avoid giving your opponent free shots on you.

Making reads on an opponent in a risky way is not a very good strategy for most things. If you want to make reads it should be in ways which you cannot get punished very easily. With counters huge cool down it is very risky.

I am not sure how fast the start-up is on counter before you get to the counter window. If its very fast, then you can most certainly use counter very effectively at times when your opponent is forced into following through with an attack. For example, if you see Bowser's bomb attack on you from up above that is a prime example of you know you are about to get hit by the move. There is no reading or anything needed for that move because its start up is quite slow enough for you to be able to see it, then time a counter. Another situation would be a person charging a smash attack as you are falling down on them.

Those are situations in which using counter should be used. While it does has its niche use one can end up finding those situations not occurring very often. Using counter as a read is a bad idea. Plus, the few situations where it is a good idea pop up very rarely. Combing these two aspects counter is going to be a very underused move and therefore to me is a bad move.

The effect of counter is good if it happens. Otherwise, if something never happens it may as not even matter and the move being almost useless. But, its at least still there and a unique trait to lucina ;D

So no, counter is not broken and I see it as quite the opposite.

That's fair, you give good reasons. I usually only use it when I see the move coming or I know, as you said, that they're forced into either the attack or they're going to die. Though you give good reasons though. I just like that Lucina has the option to counter if she does choose so.

Counter has surprisingly saved my ass a number of times, lol.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I counter recoveries. Works really well if you have a knack for anticipation.

 

[Jackson]

I counter recoveries. Works really well if you have a knack for anticipation.

This is a really solid use for it.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

This is a really solid use for it.

The nice thing is that they're closer to the blast zone than if they were on stage. It's pretty easy to take out fox around 100% if you can get him offstage and counter his Up+B.

 

[Jackson]

The nice thing is that they're closer to the blast zone than if they were on stage. It's pretty easy to take out fox around 100% if you can get him offstage and counter his Up+B.

Yeah, linear and slow recoveries like that are easy pickings for counter.

 

[Einyuri]

I counter recoveries. Works really well if you have a knack for anticipation.

Indeed, countering recoveries is a very good way to utilize the move. More times than not I've found myself off stage countering someone mid-recovery, knowing I can up-b back to the ledge.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

She kept kicking my butt with this counter when I was trying to unlock her, I finally was successful with Captain Falcon, in which I managed to sneak up from behind and use the Falcon Dive on her thus bouncing her off the edge into the abyss below, Falcon yelled yes while doing it.

But yeah, I tried a few guys trying to beat her, but she just kept countering, and Falcon lost like three times to her trying to unlock her.

 

[Muttley]

I use counter way too gratuitously for my own good. It should really only be used if you have time to see that your opponent has committed to an attack. It is too risky otherwise.
Imho it's not broken; it's a nice tool, but its one of the most punishable moves in the game. There are better ways to punish with Lucina, anyway. *cough*DancingBlade*cough*

Also grab more. I can't tell you what a hard time I have with playing Lucina against people who have mastered really good grabbing, and apparently roll cancelled dash grabbing is a thing in this game that everyone and their mom is probably going to miraculously master overnight, so I'm concerned for my Lucina/Marth game.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I am saying its a bad move for a number of different reasons.

A character is most dangerous when they have all options available too them. The moment someone picks some option before their opponent does they have committed to some action. As in you are not going to be able to do anything else until counter is over with. Therefore, you had better hope your opponent hits you with a move during the counter period or else your opponent will be thank you for the free hit on them. A free hit in smash could potentially snow ball into you losing a stock if your opponent does it right. When someone says "don't get hit" means avoid giving your opponent free shots on you.

Making reads on an opponent in a risky way is not a very good strategy for most things. If you want to make reads it should be in ways which you cannot get punished very easily. With counters huge cool down it is very risky.

I am not sure how fast the start-up is on counter before you get to the counter window. If its very fast, then you can most certainly use counter very effectively at times when your opponent is forced into following through with an attack. For example, if you see Bowser's bomb attack on you from up above that is a prime example of you know you are about to get hit by the move. There is no reading or anything needed for that move because its start up is quite slow enough for you to be able to see it, then time a counter. Another situation would be a person charging a smash attack as you are falling down on them.

Those are situations in which using counter should be used. While it does has its niche use one can end up finding those situations not occurring very often. Using counter as a read is a bad idea. Plus, the few situations where it is a good idea pop up very rarely. Combing these two aspects counter is going to be a very underused move and therefore to me is a bad move.

The effect of counter is good if it happens. Otherwise, if something never happens it may as not even matter and the move being almost useless. But, its at least still there and a unique trait to lucina ;D

So no, counter is not broken and I see it as quite the opposite.

It's not bad. It's something that should be used used sparingly of course but it fulfills its purpose of relieving pressure and rewarding reads in even the highest level matches, from Melee's fast-paced gameplay to Brawl's leisurely duels.

And since her counter has such good knockback and a solid angle in this game, just

1. Throw them off-stage
2. Read or react to recovery trajectory
3. Counter

It's a very effective addition to her edge-guarding kit, which I strongly believe is Lucina's bread and butter for securing stocks.

 

[Nasreth]

This is easily one of Lucina's best moves, up there with her f-air in my opinion. It's an easy way to punish people who are super aggressive or simply try zoning you with smashes. It's a great edgeguard as well.

 

[Einyuri]

It's not bad. It's something that should be used used sparingly of course but it fulfills its purpose of relieving pressure and rewarding reads in even the highest level matches, from Melee's fast-paced gameplay to Brawl's leisurely duels.

And since her counter has such good knockback and a solid angle in this game, just

1. Throw them off-stage
2. Read or react to recovery trajectory
3. Counter

It's a very effective addition to her edge-guarding kit, which I strongly believe is Lucina's bread and butter for securing stocks.

Agreed. It's a great tool in this game and I don't see myself cutting my usage of it in any way. If you can read and counter recoveries, the pay-off is worth it.

 

[Syrek]

Freaking love her counter! <3 It's SO satisfying if you can pull it off and especially if you can K.O. someone at a low percentage. It may feel broken to some but I think it's perfect! ^_^

 

[Doval]

This is due to the fact that her entire blade is a "Sweetspot" where Marth's blade is only the tip.

That doesn't necessarily mean Marth's counter has a tipper or that Lucina's counter works any different from Marth's. Is there any proof for this?

 

[Folt]

According to this, Marth and Lucina's Counter has the same base damage and multiplier.