Lucina Custom Move Metagame/Theory

[Emblem Lord]

I feel Lucina's custom moves could change her metagame and how she is played permanently if utilized correctly. How do you feel about custom moves and why? Do you feel it could supplement her metagame? Are any of her customs good enough to replace her standard specials? I personally, like Storm Breaker and Lunge Breaker (Not official names). I see potential in both these attacks and imo I think Storm Breaker could overtake shield breaker in Lucinas gameplan. Here is a vid of her custom moves.

Video courtesy of NinjaLink

Please discuss

 

[Robertman2]

I'm disappointed that they aren't her defaults. Could have been a great way to make her less of a clone. I also would have liked Blazer and that Sonic the Hedgehog spinny thing she does in the Twin Falchions cutscene.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Storm Breaker looks to be the best of the neutral specials. It's a great positional tool, should be safe on block with the windbox, and it makes her already strong gimp game even better by pushing opponents away from the ledge without resetting their recovery if well spaced. Do we know if the windbox interacts with projectiles at all? The lunge is cool and gives her immense reach and horizontal recovery, but I don't think it's her best option overall.

Not sure about side special yet. Heavy Combination is probably the weakest of the available options, but I need to play around with the default more. Easy Combination isn't strong at all and lacks utility, but that's four guaranteed hits in the stale move queue.

Up special will either be default or the super jump. I'll decide once I have a better handle on how her offstage game plays out. The default is a solid recovery tool but you can go pretty deep with the super jump. I don't think the horizontal movement and reversed hitboxes on the crescent slash (strong on the last hitbox) justify its use, the extra height on the other options is more valuable.

I'll probably stick to default counter. The strong counter's timing seems too tight to be practical and the easy counter lacks oomph.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Lunge Breaker looks amazing for giving traps even more containment range. Storm Breaker looks insane in footsies. It only does 4% damage, but the range and safety are too great to ignore. And the windbox pushes out so far and comes out after the thrust. I think even if your opponent spot dodged they would still get pushed out. If what we theorize is true Storm Breaker will become the default neutral special without a doubt.

Easy Combination looks super consistent. Damage is reduced but it still does ok damage and if you want a consistent punisher that is your move.

Lunge Breaker has great offensive potential imo. Use it in weird cross-ups and traps to keep your opponent off guard. Also probably amazing as a ledge jump since you will blow right past your opponent.

If Lunge Breaker and Storm Breaker are both still transcendent then smh we may never EVER see Shield Breaker in competitive play at the highest level with Lucina.

I'm very excited about these two moves especially for Storm Breaker. I really hope custom moves stay legal.

Do you guys feel the right custom loadout could change a characters tier positioning? What about changing your moves to counter a character rather then simply switching to an alternate? Storm Breaker vs Little Mac is an obvious and very useful custom move counter pick.

Thoughts?

 

[Raziek]

I think Horizontal DS actually has a lot of potential, but I'm unsure if it offsets the recovery nerf. F-throw and Fair seem to combo into it at 60-80% range.

Regular DB is the best option in my opinion.

I still need to play around with the SB's to see how I feel about those.

I'm also unsure if either of the other counters are better. Default counter is VERY strong.

 

[JUr]

Well, definitely my take in this discussion must be made after playing the game...

But for now and in a mere theoretical approach, Dolphin Jump and Lunge Breaker could help a off-stage Lucina's specialist because of the increased range in vertical and horizontal recovery...

Heavy Combination looks like a great option for doubles! With a good place to start and a partner that could send people to the zone of impact it could cause great damage to the opponent team

 

[LIQUID12A]

I can only see myself using that other Up B. That's an amazing recovery, but no hitbox might gimp it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I wanna pick up that Heavy Blade /Heavy Combination. Would make for a reliable pressure tool and can be lethal if connected. Just gotta learn the timing and lag.

Lunge Breaker looks nice too, would do wonders with chasing. Storm Breaken isn't bad though, I hope it's utility is won't be very situational for how little damage the actual move does now.

Dolphin Jump would be amazing with Lunge Break too BTW.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Lunge Breaker
Please discuss

I say it should be "Fieldbreaker".

 

[Freelance Spy]

Do you guys feel the right custom loadout could change a characters tier positioning? What about changing your moves to counter a character rather then simply switching to an alternate? Storm Breaker vs Little Mac is an obvious and very useful custom move counter pick.

Thoughts?

All day long. I had suggested many times that we could further define a more balanced tier list via giving some higher tiers some of the more nerfy looking customs. People didn't like that idea though...

Anywhocould you give a quick explanation on trancendance? What is it/how does it effect me?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok so in fighting games there is a term called priority. When someone says a move has high priority its really a combination of things. The move is usually fast, has alot of range, and a large hitbox. But the truth is there is no such thing as priority in most fighters. Pretty much any move can beat or stuff another move depending on spacing, timing and other factors.

But...there are exceptions. The most common exception is reversal type attacks that have invincibility. Lucina's Dolphin Slash is a shoryuken-esq move a la Street Fighter. It is invincible for a few frames at the beginning and allows her to blow through any attack in the game when done at the right moment. Dolphin Slash would be considered to have nigh unstoppable priority due to this trait.

Another exception is Transcendence. This trait is what is described as any move that cannot trade hits or clank with another attack. It CANNOT interact with other hitboxes. It interacts only with items, shields and hurtboxes. All of Metaknight's attacks are transcendent. If MK does a tilt thinking his opponent will attack, more than likely MK will "outprioritize" and hit their limb since his sword will "ignore" their attack and strike at the vulnerable limb or hitbox of his opponent. Combine that with his incredible attack speed and it's easy to see why MK was so dominant in footsies in Brawl and probably still is despite reduction in his attack range on several of his normals.

For Lucina, Dancing Blade and Shield Breaker are transcendent. Well, assuming they havent been changed from their Brawl incarnations when her ancestor used them.

So if you think your opponent is going to press something and try to tilt/poke and zone you, trying throwing out a Dancing Blade and then if it hits, hit confirm and follow through with it. If you can get into your opponents head and get a feel for when they like to hit buttons you can blow them up for hitting buttons in a predictable manner. Shield Breaker as a poke against say Dedede or DK is good since they have long range pokes themselves and it lets Lucina compete with their range.

If Storm Breaker is transcendent it would mean Lucina would have access to a very braindead super high priority spacing tool thats very safe even when blocked. Yeah it does little damage but it would be very frustrating for an opponent to be continuously outspaced and out zoned by a super safe move thats very difficult to punish unless they take a risk. This is assuming the wind can't be blocked and still pushes out even if they shield which I believe it does.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Custom moves confirmed broken.

Nice explanation.

 

[Freelance Spy]

If Storm Breaker is transcendent it would mean Lucina would have access to a very braindead super high priority spacing tool thats very safe even when blocked. Yeah it does little damage but it would be very frustrating for an opponent to be continuously outspaced and out zoned by a super safe move thats very difficult to punish unless they take a risk. This is assuming the wind can't be blocked and still pushes out even if they shield which I believe it does.

I really have to thank you thoroughly for your explanations. I'm actually setting up a series of "how to" videos and I'm gathering, (lesser known?) information to use later for this. You have been extremely helpful in doing this. Anywho, yeah if stormbreaker is as safe as that we could have ourselves a couple of top tier characters. If not then I'd say that fieldbreaker would help to approach.

 

[NonSequtur]

So, is there any use for Shield Breaker? Are the Neutral B's fast enough to be useful?

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you have a set-up for breaking shields it will work well. I have broken shields in brawl so if its buffed I know my set-ups are now even better. but mostly I used it as a poke and I intend to do the same in this game.

 

[Circa]

I feel this thread is worth reviving a bit now that most of us have the game.

What is everyone's opinion on the power of our customs?

I know for me personally, I still can't fully figure out what I want in the up-b and neutral-b slots (and kinda in the Counter slot...I keep wanting Iai Counter to be good, and I don't use the move enough to figure it out). Crescent Slash feels super amazing to just have most of the time...like, once it comes out you're basically safe for the entirety of the move. It also has the whole Fthrow combo thing going for it at low percents. That said, getting footstooled is basically a free stock for your opponent. There have also been a number of edgeguard situations where I'd much rather have Dolphin Slash. That may just be due to my playstyle though.

I have no clue with neutral-b. I'm bad at knowing when to use the move in general.

 

[Robertman2]

I'm loving that Storm Thrust

 

[Emblem Lord]

Storm Thrust is amazing on the ground. I'm still getting used to it for edge guarding but its stage presence is too real.

 

[JUr]

I'm still liking more the defaults... But I need to play more with the customs...

For now, Dashing Assault is a great horizontal recovery and if you can time it well in the ground is a great combination starter... Dashing Assault, SH, NAir... Dashing Assault, DTilt, DB...

Effortless Blade is very useful too

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think I may have underestimated Dolphin Jump. It might be the best custom yet.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I haven't tried the Wind Sword yet, but her dashbreaker is pretty awesome.

Her regular counter seems best to be.

No comments yet on the dancing blades.

The Flying Princess (up b 3) is amazing.

Those are my names and I am sticking to them.

 

[Circa]

I can't help but change Storm Thrust to Galeforce, Shield Breaker to Luna, and easy/normal Dancing Blade to Astra.

I've yet to unlock Dolphin Jump, but I don't know if I could go without the hitbox. I prey heavily on characters who lack one, and that makes me not want to be one of those characters.

 

[dx_Fang]

I've been playing a ton with Lucina's Dash Assault and I am favoring it the more I use it. Around 20%-50%, if the DA hits then they would get a hard knock down. From that, they can either tech roll or eat the fall because they don't expect it fast enough. This allows for a follow up dash attack or dashing grab.

 

[obscurica]

Dashing Assault and Crescent Strike seems to be where Lucina's ultimately going to create her own distinct identity, separate from Marth. From testing, fthrow/CS combos and Dashing Assault creates a monumental pressure style -- as she doesn't need to worry about spacing, those two custom abilities offer a superior rushdown kit than you would have with Marth, who'll be burning precious frames repositioning for tipper usage. Crescent Strike is also actually a REALLY good ledgeguard, and while you give up vertical recovery by running it, it's really hard to predict Lucina's lateral recovery ranges with it and Dashing Assault.

Marth might end up running Storm Thrust, emphasizing his space control instead and creating a really campy, opportunistic style in contrast. It'll be swappable with Shieldbreaker, based on matchup. Dolphin Jump makes Ken Combos safer for him too.

I'm having a hard time making up my mind as to which situation works for which side-B, though. I kinda want to put more kill power on Lucina with Heavy Combo, but it's so unwieldy... I do know that Iai Counter is actually hilarious as a mindgame for the Dashing Assault/Crescent Strike build, as it adds a dimension of yomi to her options: if they expect the Dashing Assault, they'll dodge and have you pass then punish, right? But if you get the timing down (which is just a matter of extensive matchup practice) "punishing" you just sends them hurtling off-stage. Potentially a devastating asymmetrical gameplan, allowing you to freely apply pressure while neutralizing their's.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I feel completely different. Also i think you are missing the point of why dashing assault is amazing.

All about the ledge carry