Lucas? What? How about Ness.

[PsychoIncarnate]

No, the series has a cult following, not just Earthbound/MOTHER 2.

A lot of them just know Earthbound though...Since Mother 3 isn't available in America/ rest of the world and Mother 1 is only available to them if they downloaded the rom

 

[Kunitsuna]

The best answer would be, of course, to include one as the character and the other as an alternate costume of the character. Throw Ninten in there, too.

As to who should be the actual character, I´d say Lucas, simply because MOTHER3 is big in Japan. It doesn´t matter with the US, as no installation of the franchise is particularly popular. Those who form part of Earthbound´s cult following are most probably aware of MOTHER3 and its characters anyway.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

A lot of them just know Earthbound though...Since Mother 3 isn't available in America/ rest of the world and Mother 1 is only available to them if they downloaded the rom

Honestly, Sakurai doesn't give a sh-t if Earthbound is the only official Mother game overseas. I'm sure he's going to add a lot of elements from Mother 3 if anything (which reidman from Starmen.net pretty much confirmed already), which probably wouldn't blend to well with elements from Mother 2 (imagine Ness fighting the Masked Boy or the Pig King in a storymode based on Mother 3...yeah...).

People somehow think Lucas is going to totally ruin the spot if he replaces Ness. This is not true, Lucas would probably have the exact some moveset as Ness did with just a few differences. The only thing different about him is his default look, name, and backstory (which is a lot better than Ness', which is nothing because Ness doesn't have much of a backstory at all). Ness can easily be an alt. for him, but Lucas comes first as a character. Suggesting Lucas and Ness is like someone wanting Ninten and Ness in, they're literally the same concept of a character, the latest one replacing the later one in the past, like with Link ever since he appeared in Super Smash Bros. First it was his design from OoT, and now it's his design from TP. This will most likely be the same with Ness.

In any case, if Lucas' subspace is based of Mother 3, I honestly think people would grow attached to him way more they could ever attach to a dull character like Ness (yes, he's dull, deal with it). Lucas has a lot of backstory, very good backstory. I was way more attached to him than I ever was with Ness in Mother 3.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's quite possible, just like anything in Brawl. About the Subspace storyline, we don't know for sure how that'll work. For all we know, the MOTHER portion could be Pokey somehow coming back with an army of Masked Man-esque Primids and Lucas doesn't want to relive that moment again.

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

If there's any hint of a heavy tone of Mother 3... I'm gonna order the Japanese Mother 3 and hope my little bit of Japanese can supplement the actions of the characters.

Better that than have it all spoiled... what little hasn't been spoiled already.

 

[Oldskool]

Well, I didn't really say he would exclusively listen to us, just that he was certainly giving us more consideration than before! Why would he pretend to care about other countries, anyway? This would be a bit of an issue if you're going to make a game that's released worldwide.

Your foreign Assist Trophies point is interesting as well, since Lyn couldn't of possibly of been an Assist Trophy if it weren't for us, since she doesn't have much of a following compared to quite a few other Fire Emblem characters! The same probably goes for Samurai Goroh as well, since I think they wanted to see Black Shadow more.
The Devil Assist trophy will be rather familiar to Japan AND Europe since only the US got him cut out... besides, he's only an assist trophy and doesn't replace any characters that have been playable in the 2 previous games of the Smash series.
The people at Nintendo is obviously going to have more interest in what their home country thinks, but at least they are thinking about us english speakers somewhat.

Also, the Franklin Badge isn't JUST a Mother 3 item anyway, it was in the previous Earthbound game too... the actual design is also based off a promotion for Mother 3, not the actual in-game one. Besides, if a single item is going to confirm franchises now, where the heck was Lip in Melee? I mean, we got her stick, didn't we?
...
And besides, couldn't they just use the trophy section for Lucas and keep the Ness that most players are comfortable with now?

Well with the Devil Assist thing I was bringing up the fact that you know, it's the DEVIL assist trophy. By no means am I offended, but that assist trophy is the SOLE REASON why US didn't get the game he originated from in the first place, the reason Tamagon was taken OUT of our Melee trophy collection and then he ADDS HIM (Devil) into the ASSIST TROPHY section of all places, OF ALL PLACES! And he wasn't even on the polls.. If he was so concerned about the US why the HECK would he put the Devil in the ASSIST trophy section (No pun intended), knowing that there was a possibility that it would be edited out of our version, but then the fact that this game is online all over the world prevents it...

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well with the Devil Assist thing I was bringing up the fact that you know, it's the DEVIL assist trophy. By no means am I offended, but that assist trophy is the SOLE REASON why US didn't get the game he originated from in the first place, the reason Tamagon was taken OUT of our Melee trophy collection and then he ADDS HIM (Devil) into the ASSIST TROPHY section of all places, OF ALL PLACES! And he wasn't even on the polls..

It makes you wonder if they'll take Devil out the North American version of Smash Brawl.

 

[Oldskool]

A lot of them just know Earthbound though...Since Mother 3 isn't available in America/ rest of the world and Mother 1 is only available to them if they downloaded the rom

If you are part of the cult (a TRUE member) trust me, you'd know about it.

 

[Oldskool]

It makes you wonder if they'll take Devil out the North American version of Smash Brawl.

They can't, online battles with Japan would cause problems (which means EVERYTHING they get, WE get. Plus he's already on the US site anyway.

 

[Noshiee]

it doesnt matter if Lucas in Brawl would spoil Mother 3 events, just look at Sheik in Melee.
Also, why dont Lucas has the PK and PSI attacks that Ness didnt get in Melee:
Ness:
B=PK Flash
>B=PK Fire
^B=PK Thunder
Down B=PSI Magnet
Final Smash=PK Rockin (Ness-only tech, big psychic-like attack that damages all enemies)
PK Rockin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsh37VUfa7Y (1:58)
It could cast colored beams from left to right and then right to left, cousingdamage and getting enemies closer to Ness, the he would cast a final powerful psychic wave that sends enemies flying. The final wave doesn't have that much range to the beams, which is the point of bringing enemies closer.

Lucas:
His specials can be based on this attacks:
PK Love (lucas version of Ness's PK Rockin)
PK Freeze (ice-based attack that can sometimes freeze enemies and it is known for the low use of PP (like energy...TP) compared to the its power (low PP for high damage)
PK Ground (does 5 unmissible ground-based attacks (except for flying enemies, that can sometimes miss))
PK Starstorm (Kumatoras similar vercion of Lucas's PK Love, its a little bit weaker to PK Love max version)
Refresh (Lucas-only tech, it heals small amounts of damage every turn for a period of time)
Sheild (reduces physical damage 3 times)
Psycho-Sheild (redusces PSI damage 3 times)
Sheild-Counter (same as Psycho-Sheild but it also returns damage at enemies)
Paralysis (paralizes enemies)
Hipnosis (puts enemies to sleep)
Brainshock (confuses enemies, making them attack their allies or themselves sometimes)

PK Starstorm and PK Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ahPxGYKrQ (1:15 and 1:20)

This attacks doesn't have to be similar in some way to how they originally are in the Mother games, like PK Fire, in the game it damages all enemies, while in Melee it only damaged one character unless other characters where really near to it. PK Flash coused different status effects or instant defeat sometimes, the instant defeat was the only thing that can be related in some way to the Melee PK Flash, because of the high damagedone by it. PSI Magnet absoved PP (energy or TP), in Melee, it sheilded you from missile attacks, and in this case, it healed you. PK Thunder summoned 1 to 4 lightning that could damage or miss the target randomly, in Melee, it is only one lightning , it's ball-shaped, you control the direction and can be used for recovery.
But they should have something similar oviously, like PK Fire is fire based, PK Flash can sometimes instant-kill you, PK Thunder is lightning-basd and can sometimes miss if you don't master it and PSI Magnet absorves damage.

So...this is my Lucas:
B=PK Freeze - casts a ice-like wave around Lucas, it hits ones, it can sometimes freeze the foe, it can be charged for bigger range and damage. It it is a quick attack(in reference to the low PP consumation) with decent damage.
>B=Sheild-Counter - creates a energy-psychic sheild in front of him and shots it forwards, increasing the sheild's size. Imagine Invisible Woman's sheild that she does in the first Fantrastic Four movie to Doctor Doom in the office scene thing. It has small/mid range, is not that powerful, it pushes enemies away and it reflects missile attacks (in reference to it sheilding and reflective abilities it had in the game). It kinda leaves you open from behind.
^B=PK Starstorm - Stars would star appearing below him, shooting them upwards in a spreaded fashion, blasing himself up. The stars can hurt enemies and if you do this with a enemies sticked to your side, all the stars would eventually connect with the enemie, cousing a big amount of damage (in reference to the big amount of damage it could couse in Mother 3). It leaves you kinda open at the begining of the attack.
Down B=PK Ground - It casts a wave on the ground that does small/mid damage and can be done 5 times in a row. It knocks foes back a little, but the waves eventally get bigger (the first wave is small, but the 5 is kinda big) so all the waves connect most of the time.
Final Smash=PK Love - Something different to PK Rocking I guess, like casting powerful psychic explosions in random places of the stage.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If you are part of the cult (a TRUE member) trust me, you'd know about it.

Look at my figgin sig...

 

[dan smith]

Even though I am known as a hardcore Ness...I would actually be okay if Lucas replaced Ness. Having very similar moves and everything.

IF

Mother 3 was subsequently released in the US

AND

(spoilers)
If Ness appeared in Brawl as his Robot form.

ROBOT FOR TEH WIN!!!

http://files.fobby.net/0000/0ad1/devilmachine_small.jpg

 

[Spellman]

The 12 veteran characters will stay. That is my heartfelt wish.

On the same token, never underestimate starmen.net. They're pretty credible.

I'm going to go on a long shot here and say that Lucas and Ness will both be in Brawl.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Sakurai gives a freak, actually. He's mentioned that now Smash Brothers is world renowned, he'd have to to think twice about including characters that have only appeared in Japan... although he does also mention that the success of the Fire Emblem characters might also convince him to make an exception.

Sakurai is clearly making a game for the fans, and I'm certain he probably knows that it might be too late to replace Ness without making SOME kind of dissapointment. While Ness and Lucas are extremely similar anyway, it's likely Mother 3 would be represented by someone else like Flint or Kumatora, who have both become fan favorites now.

Listen to THIS guy. IF Ness were to get the boot, does anyone besides me will know that half the world of smash will go berserk if one of the oringinal 12 were getting the boot? It is crazy talk. Ness and Earthbound/Mother became even MORE popular thanks to smash. Ever since then, people all over the world have been demanding a new mother/earthbound game. If it werent for Ness being in Smash, I'm sure Mother 3 for GBA would be WAAAAAY down in sales (cough or might of not existed cough). Sure, Lucas is a highly suggested charater, but we already have Ness! Go with Flint, Kumatora or Claus!

Edit: Or, just add Lucas without taking out Ness! Look at that guy's moveset above my post!

 

[Kirby knight]

Listen to THIS guy. IF Ness were to get the boot, does anyone besides me will know that half the world of smash will go berserk if one of the oringinal 12 were getting the boot? It is crazy talk.

Yeah because the smash community would flip out about getting the same Ness moveset on a different body :/ Since when are the Original 12 are some holy grail type scale? Tell me why people aren't flipping out about Link's new TP look when he had his Oot look in SSB?

Ness and Earthbound/Mother became even MORE popular thanks to smash. Ever since then, people all over the world have been demanding a new mother/earthbound game. If it werent for Ness being in Smash, I'm sure Mother 3 for GBA would be WAAAAAY down in sales (cough or might of not existed cough).

You know what; if Lucas was in Brawl maybe then Mother 3 would be released outside of Japan. If only Ness is in it (or a Lucas alt) Mother 3 wouldn't of been given that much attention and that may lead to Mother 3 never having the chance to be released other than in Japan.

How on earth can you spew a bull**** like like "If it weren't for Ness being in Smash, I'm sure Mother 3 for the GBA would be WAAAAY down in sales" To say something like that you have stupid and or dumb. In Japan Mother 3 Sold like hot-cakes it wasn't because of Ness being in Smash that it sold so well. Don't talk about something you don't know about. Ness isn't as important as you think he is.

Lucas's inclusion would open up so many doors (such as mother 3 being released outside of Japan), Of course it seems like these Ness purists would rather have Earthbound only here.

-Knight

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Yeah because the smash community would flip out about getting the same Ness moveset on a different body :/ Since when are the Original 12 are some holy grail type scale? Tell me why people aren't flipping out about Link's new TP look when he had his Oot look in SSB?[quote/]

Uhhhhhhhhh...no. Because Link IS STILL IN. New look? Well Duh. Take a look at ANY SSB charater look and then look at the Brawl versions - way different from the 64-bit days. If you look around, the oringinal 12 are basicly holy grails. And I'm sure Lucas can use different PK moves.

You know what; if Lucas was in Brawl maybe then Mother 3 would be released outside of Japan. If only Ness is in it (or a Lucas alt) Mother 3 wouldn't of been given that much attention and that may lead to Mother 3 never having the chance to be released other than in Japan.
How on earth can you spew a bull**** like like "If it weren't for Ness being in Smash, I'm sure Mother 3 for the GBA would be WAAAAY down in sales" To say something like that you have stupid and or dumb. In Japan Mother 3 Sold like hot-cakes it wasn't because of Ness being in Smash that it sold so well. Don't talk about something you don't know about. Ness isn't as important as you think he is.[Quote/]

Then tell me - was mother 3 released before or after melee? And what about the oringinal mother 3? canceled. notice the HUGE gap before another mother game? Heck you may be right on the "Don't talk about something you don't know about." But I am not judging my opinion on my earthbound knowledge - I basing my opinion on common sence.

Lucas's inclusion would open up so many doors (such as mother 3 being released outside of Japan), Of course it seems like these Ness purists would rather have Earthbound only here.[QUOTE/]

OK, sure. But It dosent mean "WHOA! Lucas in! We HAVE to get rid of Ness now, cause there was WAY to many mother charaters in Melee!"

Why would you replace Ness? Why fix what is not broken?

Also, I am NOT aganist Lucas. I simply see NO point in REPLACING Ness, instead of just adding Lucas all together.

 

[Kirby knight]

Uhhhhhhhhh...no. Because Link IS STILL IN. New look? Well Duh. Take a look at ANY SSB charater look and then look at the Brawl versions - way different from the 64-bit days. If you look around, the oringinal 12 are basicly holy grails. And I'm sure Lucas can use different PK moves.

Yes Lucas could use different moves, by stealing them from other characters like Ness had to do in SSB and SSBM. Seriously, they're alt costumes of each other.

Then tell me - was mother 3 released before or after melee? And what about the oringinal mother 3? canceled. notice the HUGE gap before another mother game? Heck you may be right on the "Don't talk about something you don't know about." But I am not judging my opinion on my earthbound knowledge - I basing my opinion on common sence.

What does the 3rd mother game being released after Melee have to with it? So what if it was canceled, that fact of the matter was that it came out on the GBA later on, it doesn't matter about the years in between them.

OK, sure. But It dosent mean "WHOA! Lucas in! We HAVE to get rid of Ness now, cause there was WAY to many mother charaters in Melee!"

Why would you replace Ness? Why fix what is not broken?

Also, I am NOT aganist Lucas. I simply see NO point in REPLACING Ness, instead of just adding Lucas all together.

Why not have the most current rep of the Mother series? It could lead to Mother 3 being released outside of Japan (Which I said many many many times). Honestly They are almost the exact same character just with a new body. I mean do you support? Pichu returning in Brawl because that's what your going to get if Lucas and Ness are included in seperate characters slots. Of course they could have different movesets (by stealing them from other characters in the Mother games, so why not add them instead?).

The point is Ness and Lucas are clones of each other in their games. They can only be different from each other by stealing moves from other characters. I don't see why your so adamant about adding clones into Brawl. Ness would be perfectly fine as an Alt costume of Lucas, and also by doing that they could add Ninten because he's exactly the same as Ness and Lucas.

-Knight

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Yes Lucas could use different moves, by stealing them from other characters like Ness had to do in SSB and SSBM. Seriously, they're alt costumes of each other.[QUOTE/]

Maybe, but look at Mario and Luigi. Some moves are the same, but some different. Do people complain about Luigi's similar moves/call him a clone? No. The same could be done with Lucas/or even Ness. Ness and Lucas seem to fit in the Mario/Luigi catogory. You would ASSUME their moves would be the same, but yet in Melee they made Luigi in his own form, but with only some basic A moves being the same (ok fine, a couple B moves too).

What does the 3rd mother game being released after Melee have to with it? So what if it was canceled, that fact of the matter was that it came out on the GBA later on, it doesn't matter about the years in between them. [QUOTE/]

But wouldnt you think a earthbound charater in Melee would get at least SOME hype for a new game that hasnt been active in quite a few years (I'm talking in perspective before Mother 3 was released) Ok, I'm realised that what I said about the sales going way down wasnt exactly true, but I know it did play a part in it.

Why not have the most current rep of the Mother series? It could lead to Mother 3 being released outside of Japan (Which I said many many many times). Honestly They are almost the exact same character just with a new body. I mean do you support? Pichu returning in Brawl because that's what your going to get if Lucas and Ness are included in seperate characters slots. Of course they could have different movesets (by stealing them from other characters in the Mother games, so why not add them instead?).[QUOTE/]

Please read above with the mario and luigi thing. Look at Marth. The first charater from Fire Eleblem, yet he is in Melee and has great chances for Brawl alongside Ike, the newer rep.

The point is Ness and Lucas are clones of each other in their games. They can only be different from each other by stealing moves from other characters. I don't see why your so adamant about adding clones into Brawl. Ness would be perfectly fine as an Alt costume of Lucas, and also by doing that they could add Ninten because he's exactly the same as Ness and Lucas.

Well I don't want clones, first of all. Second, there will be no clones, stated by Sakurai himself. When I think of Alt costumes, I think of Wario in his oringinal plumber suit, not a different charater. You might as well call them alternate charaters then. (Read above, the Mario and Luigi thing)

 

[2007]

screw Lucas. Ness is pwnzorz.

 

[Kirby knight]

Maybe, but look at Mario and Luigi. Some moves are the same, but some different. Do people complain about Luigi's similar moves/call him a clone? No. The same could be done with Lucas/or even Ness. Ness and Lucas seem to fit in the Mario/Luigi catogory. You would ASSUME their moves would be the same, but yet in Melee they made Luigi in his own form, but with only some basic A moves being the same (ok fine, a couple B moves too).

Yes some of Mario and Luigi's moves are shared between them; and no people didn't generally complain about Lugi's moveset when comparing how similar it is to Mario's. I was just stating the fact that both Ness and Lucas moves are basicly the same. I even said:

Yes Lucas could use different moves, by stealing them from other characters like Ness had to do in SSB and SSBM.

So I did not "assume" that there moves would be the same unless they did not borrow moves from other Characters in Mother/Earthbound.

Please read above with the mario and luigi thing. Look at Marth. The first charater from Fire Eleblem, yet he is in Melee and has great chances for Brawl alongside Ike, the newer rep.

Mhm, but Ike's and Marth sword-play is vastly different enough to allow them not to be as similar as Ness and Lucas. Even Luigi's differences from Mario has also to due with his size. Bringing Lucas and Ness into the fray it could be hard to give them each enough unique moves and atributes because their basicly like Ness went in and changed his clothes and then dyed his hair to become Lucas.

Well I don't want clones, first of all. Second, there will be no clones, stated by Sakurai himself. When I think of Alt costumes, I think of Wario in his oringinal plumber suit, not a different charater. You might as well call them alternate charaters then. (Read above, the Mario and Luigi thing)

I don't really want clones either; which is why I'm pointing out how similar Ness and Lucas are to each other. Having an alternate character in the form of an alt costume isn't such a bad idea. Again Mario and Luigi are physically different enough to not be considered as the same boat as Ness and Lucas.

-Knight

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Yes some of Mario and Luigi's moves are shared between them; and no people didn't generally complain about Lugi's moveset when comparing how similar it is to Mario's. I was just stating the fact that both Ness and Lucas moves are basicly the same. I even said:

So I did not "assume" that there moves would be the same unless they did not borrow moves from other Characters in Mother/Earthbound.

First of all, when I said "you would assume" I did not directly mean you .

Mhm, but Ike's and Marth sword-play is vastly different enough to allow them not to be as similar as Ness and Lucas. Even Luigi's differences from Mario has also to due with his size. Bringing Lucas and Ness into the fray it could be hard to give them each enough unique moves and atributes because their basicly like Ness went in and changed his clothes and then dyed his hair to become Lucas.

I didn't mean Marth and Ike were similar, I was just responding to the comment you made which was "Wouldn't you rather have a newer rep?" Also, may I ask how size matters to mario and luigi in SSBM? Just because Luigi was skinner dosent mean he couldnt swing a cape at somebody

I don't really want clones either; which is why I'm pointing out how similar Ness and Lucas are to each other. Having an alternate character in the form of an alt costume isn't such a bad idea. Again Mario and Luigi are physically different enough to not be considered as the same boat as Ness and Lucas.

BUT an alternate charater WOULD be a clone!

-Knight

My responces in bold.

 

[Kirby knight]

Honestly this whole Lucas vs Ness argument is going nowhere, it's going to take some sort of conformation by Sakurai to maybe end this debate. But I just want to cover one more thing.

BUT an alternate charater WOULD be a clone!

I don't really want clones either; which is why I'm pointing out how similar Ness and Lucas are to each other. Having an alternate character in the form of an alt costume isn't such a bad idea. Again Mario and Luigi are physically different enough to not be considered as the same boat as Ness and Lucas.

So by that statement yours saying that there are 4 Mario clones, 4 Pikachu Clones, etc,etc etc. If Lucas had an alt costume of Ness that would be a Clone in some sense, but it a way it wouldn't because Ness would be a costume and not take of any character space ( Heaven forbid alt costumes take up roaster space x_x ).

-Knight

 

[Oldskool]

Honestly this whole Lucas vs Ness argument is going nowhere, it's going to take some sort of conformation by Sakurai to maybe end this debate. But I just want to cover one more thing.



So by that statement yours saying that there are 4 Mario clones, 4 Pikachu Clones, etc,etc etc. If Lucas had an alt costume of Ness that would be a Clone in some sense, but it a way it wouldn't because Ness would be a costume and not take of any character space ( Heaven forbid alt costumes take up roaster space x_x ).

-Knight

HA HA HA HA HA (Animal Crossing Laugh)

Yeah, I pray Sakurai will end the Lucas and Animal Crossing Character debate soon!

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Ugh, everyone is just making a sorry a-s excuse for Ness to say.

Let me tell you, in all honestly, Ness is the worst of the three Mother characters, having hardly any backstory at all (Ninten had quite a backstory with his connection to Gigyas, and Lucas' backstory is a very strong plot throughout the game; Ness didn't have a backstory other than just being a boy with PSI power and told by Buzz Buzz to save the world from Gigyas). Saying he's even better than Lucas in one bit, Lucas being the best Mother main yet character-wise, would just be plain ******** and misinformed. Either that, or you have very low respect for a great series like Mother and only want Ness in just because even though he isn't the star of the Mother series. So no, Ness is not "teh pwnorz!", despite what people have said about him.

Lucas is just going to replace Ness design-wise like they do with every other Smash character in each game (like Link and DK, notice Link is based of his TP design and DK is based off his recent DK Bongo design). He'll have the same moves, everything, even perhaps a Ness alt for people who want to play as Ness for nostalgic reasons. Lucas has a lot of backstory in Mother 3 that would fit perfectly into the Subspace Emissary, especially if his relationship with Claus and the Pig Army is explored in something very epic. Something Ness lacks overall (as in, if he had his own subspace, it wouldn't be good at all, ever; Gigyas would honestly not be able to be a boss, nor is there backstory for him at all). Lucas, overall, is a better character that's simply just a better version of what Ness tried to be, which was the main Mother character. I would highly be disappointed if both of them were in, just as much as I would highly be disappointed if Sakurai put the Link from OoT and the Link from TP as two seperate characters in at the same time.

 

[Noshiee]

okay...Lucas is the most likely Mother/Earthbound rep alongside Ness, so his chances of being in Brawl are way bigger than any other Mother/Earthbound character not counting Ness. If only one of those characters, Lucas and Ness, is going to appear while the other is an alternate costume, Lucas most likely is going to be the alt.
If both appear as playable characters, they would not be clones, there is a bunch of PK attacks and abilities that Lucas can have without using Ness's Melee specials, 'couse there are more PK attacks than Fire, Thunder, Flash and PSI Magnet..., like PK Freeze, Ground, Starstorm, Rockin (which is an Earthbound/Mother 2 attack, so it most likely that Lucas doesnt get it, it could be Ness FS though), or Lucas only-techs, like PK Love and Refresh. He could use other abilities like Sheild-Counter, Paralysis, Hipnosis or Brainshock.
They could have different ways to be played, like Ness is an attack-from-distance-and-then-kick-the-foe's-butt-while-is-open, while Lucas can be an attack-non-stop-and-then-run.
This is just an example of how they could be made different, with just their weight being the same. I'm frekin tired of hearing that they would be the same, 'couse they could be made totally DIFFERENT!,
let me remember you that Sakurai can do anything, and making Ness and Lucas different is one of those things.
I'm not saying that Lucas is in, and also Ness, but that the possibility of both of them being in Brawl and not being clones is not impossible.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

okay...Lucas is the most likely Mother/Earthbound rep alongside Ness, so his chances of being in Brawl are way bigger than any other Mother/Earthbound character not counting Ness. If only one of those characters, Lucas and Ness, is going to appear while the other is an alternate costume, Lucas most likely is going to be the alt.
If both appear as playable characters, they would not be clones, there is a bunch of PK attacks and abilities that Lucas can have without using Ness's Melee specials, 'couse there are more PK attacks than Fire, Thunder, Flash and PSI Magnet..., like PK Freeze, Ground, Starstorm, Rockin (which is an Earthbound/Mother 2 attack, so it most likely that Lucas doesnt get it, it could be Ness FS though), or Lucas only-techs, like PK Love and Refresh. He could use other abilities like Sheild-Counter, Paralysis, Hipnosis or Brainshock.
They could have different ways to be played, like Ness is an attack-from-distance-and-then-kick-the-foe's-butt-while-is-open, while Lucas can be an attack-non-stop-and-then-run.
This is just an example of how they could be made different, with just their weight being the same. I'm frekin tired of hearing that they would be the same, 'couse they could be made totally DIFFERENT!,
let me remember you that Sakurai can do anything, and making Ness and Lucas different is one of those things.
I'm not saying that Lucas is in, and also Ness, but that the possibility of both of them being in Brawl and not being clones is not impossible.

PK Love isn't Lucas' exclusive move, Ness knows it too.

Matter of fact, their whole set of learned PSI (sans a few) are pretty much exactly the same, along with their stats.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Honestly this whole Lucas vs Ness argument is going nowhere, it's going to take some sort of conformation by Sakurai to maybe end this debate. But I just want to cover one more thing.



So by that statement yours saying that there are 4 Mario clones, 4 Pikachu Clones, etc,etc etc. If Lucas had an alt costume of Ness that would be a Clone in some sense, but it a way it wouldn't because Ness would be a costume and not take of any character space ( Heaven forbid alt costumes take up roaster space x_x ).

-Knight

Hm.........lets read that again "an alternate CHARATER would be a clone!"

Just like to point that out.

clones=bad either way, whether it takes up roster space or not. So YOUR saying Ganondorf could be an alternate costume for Captain Falcon, am I right?

I do see your point thou. Of course Ness shouldnt sink as low to an alternate costume, he IS the representer for Earthbound in Smash.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

okay...Lucas is the most likely Mother/Earthbound rep alongside Ness, so his chances of being in Brawl are way bigger than any other Mother/Earthbound character not counting Ness. If only one of those characters, Lucas and Ness, is going to appear while the other is an alternate costume, Lucas most likely is going to be the alt.
If both appear as playable characters, they would not be clones, there is a bunch of PK attacks and abilities that Lucas can have without using Ness's Melee specials, 'couse there are more PK attacks than Fire, Thunder, Flash and PSI Magnet..., like PK Freeze, Ground, Starstorm, Rockin (which is an Earthbound/Mother 2 attack, so it most likely that Lucas doesnt get it, it could be Ness FS though), or Lucas only-techs, like PK Love and Refresh. He could use other abilities like Sheild-Counter, Paralysis, Hipnosis or Brainshock.
They could have different ways to be played, like Ness is an attack-from-distance-and-then-kick-the-foe's-butt-while-is-open, while Lucas can be an attack-non-stop-and-then-run.
This is just an example of how they could be made different, with just their weight being the same. I'm frekin tired of hearing that they would be the same, 'couse they could be made totally DIFFERENT!,
let me remember you that Sakurai can do anything, and making Ness and Lucas different is one of those things.
I'm not saying that Lucas is in, and also Ness, but that the possibility of both of them being in Brawl and not being clones is not impossible.

EXACTLY. This post FTW.

 

[Noshiee]

PK Love isn't Lucas' exclusive move, Ness knows it too.

Matter of fact, their whole set of learned PSI (sans a few) are pretty much exactly the same, along with their stats.

alright fine, I was wrong about PK Love, but Ness doesn't use it in smash, which means Lucas can.

and about the PSI thing, Ness's uses Paula's PSI, aside from PK Flash, which I thing is Ness exclusive, but I can be wrong though. Lucas could use the other PSI like I said before, like PK Freeze, Starstorm or Ground.
Also the same stats thing doesn't stop Sakurai from making him different from Ness, like making OoT Link using the boomerang, or Ganondorf fighting hand to hand, or making Mewtwo equally as powerful to other characters in smash.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I do see your point thou. Of course Ness shouldnt sink as low to an alternate costume, he IS the representer for Earthbound in Smash.

Ness wasn't the representative of Earthbound, it was the representative of Mother. People seem to think Ness is the main star of the whole series just because he was in the only released version of Mother over the states. That's not the case. If Sakurai wanted to have a main Mother star, the most likely representative would literally be Ninten, as he's the first. But he didn't. He wanted the most recent Mother character to represent the series, as the most recent is basically an improvement on the past one design-wise, much like every Link in every Zelda game. Most likely he's going to do the same now that a new Mother character appeared, with a very good backstory and design.

 

[Kirby knight]

Hm.........lets read that again "an alternate CHARATER would be a clone!"

Just like to point that out.

clones=bad either way, whether it takes up roster space or not. So YOUR saying Ganondorf could be an alternate costume for Captain Falcon, am I right?

No I'm not. That's a really dumb comparison to make anyway. Ganondorf was a clone of C. Flacon due to time restraints. Ness and Lucas ;/ I really don't have to explain.

I guess Mario was a Wario clone in Melee because he had an alt costume that looked like his x_x

I do see your point thou. Of course Ness shouldnt sink as low to an alternate costume, he IS the representer for Earthbound in Smash.

So you would rather just have Ness than Lucas who could actually bring MOTHER 3 over so people actually would have another perseptive on the MOTHER SERIES as a whole?

Sakurai I beg of you give us a MOTHER character update :/ my goodness.

-Knight

 

[Noshiee]

Ness wasn't the representative of Earthbound, it was the representative of Mother. People seem to think Ness is the main star of the whole series just because he was in the only released version of Mother over the states. That's not the case. If Sakurai wanted to have a main Mother star, the most likely representative would literally be Ninten, as he's the first. But he didn't. He wanted the most recent Mother character to represent the series, as the most recent is basically an improvement on the past one design-wise, much like every Link in every Zelda game. Most likely he's going to do the same now that a new Mother character appeared, with a very good backstory and design.

I don't rememeber Mario and/or Luigi having a great backstory, aside from "OMG, the Princess was captured...again, I/we have to save her even if I/we don't the responsability of doing it!!"
Or Mr. game and Watch, who doesn,t have any backstory at all!!
So the Ness's backstory is not as big as Lucas backstory doesn't mean anything, as a lot of characters doesn't have a lot of backstory either.
And if they are using the most recent characters, why is Zero Suit Samus in? or why are they using Red for PT design instead of the one from Pearl or Dimond, or using Pearl's/Dimond's starting Pokemon instead of Squartle, Ivysaur and Charizard?
So the most recent chararcter thing also doesn't mean anything, or atleast not as much as a lot of people think.

 

[ZenJestr]

well...guess who was confirmed today...hee hee

I still want Ness in some form...but I am glad Lucas is in...

 

[EricShiznit]

I'm disappointed Lucas was confirmed. But I don't want both.

I'll miss you Ness.

 

[PyrasTerran]

Meh.. I grew up with Ness since I was in elementary school. He was the star of both my first Earthbound game and my first RPG. So the character itself holds much more sentimental value to me than any other Earthbound character.

I am really hoping he's still available.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just because Lucas got in doesn't mean that Ness is being kicked out. After all, Ness is one of the original 12 Smash Bros. fighters, and it's only natural if all the N64 SSB fighters come back again.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Just because Lucas got in doesn't mean that Ness is being kicked out. After all, Ness is one of the original 12 Smash Bros. fighters, and it's only natural if all the N64 SSB fighters come back again.

but you have to admit, it lowers his chances.

 

[DekuBoy]

why would sakurai replace a kid with a baseball bat with a character who is meant to be a crybaby?
NESS PWNS

 

[the grim lizard]

I love how people go to great lengths saying they can take Tom Nook out of the background at times in order to be playable or that Zamus can be accessed separately, etc., but they can't see the obvious possibility that two EB/Mother protagonists can be in Brawl.

 

[BoG]

Really, I think this kills his chances. Why would Sakurai reveal Lucas first? In my opinion, that would be like revealing Peach before Mario, or DK before Diddy. Now, I'm an optimist even, I still think Nook has a chance, but hope for Ness is gone. It is unfortunate.
For me, this throws smash predicting into total chaos. No one is safe. IC return, Ness won't, no one is safe. NO ONE.