Lucas? What? How about Ness.

[EricShiznit]

I've asked a few times already, but I still don't understand the reasoning on why everyone here believe Ness will be replaced.
Lucas's game is only in Japanese, as opposed to Ness's game being in english/japanese. Plus the games are already years and years old. Why would Sakurai break the history Ness has with smash bros already, to add in a character that ONLY die hard earthbound fans like?

I've read a few times people mentioning Sakurai showing favoritism to Mother 3. Can someone tell me what that refers to? Other than having a Mother 3 composer, I can't find anything.

I understand that the Mother 3 game in Japan is bigger than Earthbound is us over here, but in the same breath, both eastern and western countries have Ness in smash bros. Ness appeals to players of the game that arent Earthbound/Mother3 fans.

If I could find the answers to these questions, I wouldn't ask, but after seeing so many "predictions threads" with Lucas over Ness, I got a little frustrated.

 

[prettymanfairy]

Actually the Franklin Badge is the one in from Mother 3. People at Starmen.net say that the there will be elements from Mother 3 that will ruin it for those that haven't played it. I don't think they would fib about it because of their cause.

 

[Jededi4h]

I'm with you Eric, I don't feel that Sakurai would take out Ness. I think he wants the characters in Smash Bros. to have as much Global recognition as possible.

And as for the Franklin Badge it originally appeared in the first Earthbound game (you know the one with Ness in it) so it's inclusion proves nothing.

 

[Hong]

Actually the Franklin Badge is the one in from Mother 3. People at Starmen.net say that the there will be elements from Mother 3 that will ruin it for those that haven't played it. I don't think they would fib about it because of their cause.

Which is based off of the Franklin Badge given out with a promotion for MOTHER for Famicom, making it neutral.

 

[freeman123]

I've asked a few times already, but I still don't understand the reasoning on why everyone here believe Ness will be replaced.
Lucas's game is only in Japanese, as opposed to Ness's game being in english/japanese. Plus the games are already years and years old. Why would Sakurai break the history Ness has with smash bros already, to add in a character that ONLY die hard earthbound fans like?

I've read a few times people mentioning Sakurai showing favoritism to Mother 3. Can someone tell me what that refers to? Other than having a Mother 3 composer, I can't find anything.

I understand that the Mother 3 game in Japan is bigger than Earthbound is us over here, but in the same breath, both eastern and western countries have Ness in smash bros. Ness appeals to players of the game that arent Earthbound/Mother3 fans.

If I could find the answers to these questions, I wouldn't ask, but after seeing so many "predictions threads" with Lucas over Ness, I got a little frustrated.

The reason that a lot of people think that is because on the official Melee site it supposedly said that they were going to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee, but didn't because Mother 3 was delayed. I never read that myself, and people claim that Sakurai said a lot of other things that he never said to my knowledge(like that clones won't be returning), so I have no idea if it's true or not. I just know that that's why so many people think Ness will be replaced by Lucas.

Also, the people at Starmen.net claim that their "source" told them that Ness would be replaced with Lucas. They also claimed that they knew about the Franklin Badge before it was shown on smashbros.com, but they didn't say anything about it until afterwards, so who knows how reliable they are.

 

[Big-Cat]

Starmen.net never said Ness was being replaced by Lucas.

 

[Kirby knight]

I've asked a few times already, but I still don't understand the reasoning on why everyone here believe Ness will be replaced.
Lucas's game is only in Japanese, as opposed to Ness's game being in english/japanese. Plus the games are already years and years old. Why would Sakurai break the history Ness has with smash bros already, to add in a character that ONLY die hard earthbound fans like?

Lucas's game is the most current MOTHER, and the rumor that Sakurai wanted to replace Ness with him if Lucas's game wasn't cancelled.

I understand that the Mother 3 game in Japan is bigger than Earthbound is us over here, but in the same breath, both eastern and western countries have Ness in smash bros. Ness appeals to players of the game that arent Earthbound/Mother3 fans.

Yes however outside of Japan we haven't got a new Earthbound/Mother game in how long? Lucas's inclusion in Brawl and how well he's recieved could give the push to bring Mother 3 outside of Japan. If that were to happen I wouldn't have a problem with Lucas's inclusion.

It may not be fair that Lucas may replace Ness, but I also think it's immensely unfair to those in Japan who want an extremely popular character only to be denied his inclusion because "the game hasn't be released outside of Japan".

They're both basicly alt costumes of each other. Sakurai could cram Ninten, Ness, and Lucas all into one package.

-Knight

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Like I said in my past reasoning. Putting Ness AND Lucas in is like putting the Link from OoT in and the Link from TP in. Basically they're both the same idea of a character, but they are, in a whole, separate characters as a whole. Lucas would just be an improved version of what Ness would be, with a different design and name. He would probably still have Ness' moves with some tweaks, but basically be the same character you love to play. Hell, he could even have a Ness alt. if Sakurai wants. But Lucas comes first, and definitely it would be quite ludicrous to have both in the game as separate characters.

People seem to think Ness is the main Mother representative somehow, even though he was only in the second game. If anything, that proper title would belong to Ninten, but since Sakurai is just going to use the current Mother character that is basically the same in each game in terms of personality, look, moves, etc. I'm pretty sure Ness is going to be replaced by Lucas.

 

[silver777]

Like I said in my past reasoning. Putting Ness AND Lucas in is like putting the Link from OoT in and the Link from TP in. Basically they're both the same idea of a character, but they are, in a whole, separate characters as a whole. Lucas would just be an improved version of what Ness would be, with a different design and name. He would probably still have Ness' moves with some tweaks, but basically be the same character you love to play. Hell, he could even have a Ness alt. if Sakurai wants. But Lucas comes first, and definitely it would be quite ludicrous to have both in the game as separate characters.

People seem to think Ness is the main Mother representative somehow, even though he was only in the second game. If anything, that proper title would belong to Ninten, but since Sakurai is just going to use the current Mother character that is basically the same in each game in terms of personality, look, moves, etc. I'm pretty sure Ness is going to be replaced by Lucas.

Listen to this dude.

 

[Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud]

People seem to think Ness is the main Mother representative somehow, even though he was only in the second game. If anything, that proper title would belong to Ninten, but since Sakurai is just going to use the current Mother character that is basically the same in each game in terms of personality, look, moves, etc. I'm pretty sure Ness is going to be replaced by Lucas.

People feel Ness is the main Mother character because he is the only one heard of outside of Japan (and die-hard Mother and Nintendo fans). Ninten is the first and Lucas is the most recent, but since they're both Japanese exclusive, they, for the most part, don't exist in the minds of the people outside of Japan (excluding those of us aware of Mother 1 and Mother 3). Ness is all the western world has, so it's very understandable that the western world sees him as the most important character of the series because they do not know the existance of the others.

I'm not against Lucas being in, but I do feel that Ness needs to be included otherwise everyone outside of Japan will either be lost or upset by losing the only character they know for some unknown face.

 

[Oldskool]

People feel Ness is the main Mother character because he is the only one heard of outside of Japan (and die-hard Mother and Nintendo fans). Ninten is the first and Lucas is the most recent, but since they're both Japanese exclusive, they, for the most part, don't exist in the minds of the people outside of Japan (excluding those of us aware of Mother 1 and Mother 3). Ness is all the western world has, so it's very understandable that the western world sees him as the most important character of the series because they do not know the existance of the others.

I'm not against Lucas being in, but I do feel that Ness needs to be included otherwise everyone outside of Japan will either be lost or upset by losing the only character they know for some unknown face.

And I have to say.... Who gives a freak? This game is not being made in the US or Europe...

 

[Doggalina]

And I have to say.... Who gives a freak? This game is not being made in the US or Europe...

It is, however, being sold in those places.

 

[Oldskool]

It is, however, being sold in those places.

And an inclusion of a character they don't know, in a game FULL of characters they do know, won't stop the people who plan on buying it, from buying it. Unless they have mental problems I guess. Of course they could just make the game Japan exclusive, like they were planning from the beginning of the first game.

 

[axemangx]

Why not add both? >_>

 

[JeffMan]

The whole Lucas-in-place-of-Ness conspiracy only exists because he was intended for the original Smash Bros for the 64; but MOTHER 3 [64DD] was cancelled, so they put Ness instead. The Melee rumour is both false and illogical, and I don't know how so many people got the wrong idea.

Now that MOTHER 3 [GBA] is actually out, there's a higher chance that Lucas (or another MOTHER 3 character) will be in it, but I have my doubts that Ness will be replaced in a game where we've already seen examples of several characters per series. I say Ness stays, Lucas is added (as "suggested" by Starmen.Net's heavily reliable inside person), and there may possibly be a third person.

 

[axemangx]

Seriously. What annoys me is, they say Lucas is unique himself.

If he is, how about.


B-O-T-H.

 

[genosall]

I don't think that Sakurai would get rid of one of the first twelve. (just an opinion) So I think that ness shall return!... but Lucas = cool so mabaly lucas could be an alt costume for him?

 

[Conker1]

I say keep Ness...and add Flint.

 

[GreatClayMonkey]

people also say ness stole his moves ness stole 2 pk fire and thunder

 

[Kirby knight]

I would throw up and Lucas & Ness were included in Brawl. They could never be unique from each other because they share almost the exact same moves (Think Issac and Felix from Golden Sun). I'm sure Sakurai could make them both unique by stealing movesets from other respective character in the MOTHER games; so why not add those characters instead?

Lucas & Ness would be perfectly fine being alt costumes of each other. I think if Sakurai added the "Masked-Man" into Brawl that would be quite the unique character (although from what I've heard his story importance is a bit...limited; er well I wouldn't know someone else would have to confirm).

-Knight

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I think if Sakurai added the "Masked-Man" into Brawl that would be quite the unique character (although from what I've heard his story importance is a bit...limited; er well I wouldn't know someone else would have to confirm).

No, the Masked Boy, even though it's not like he appeared all the time, is indeed a very important character in Mother 3. The whole plot revolves around him and Lucas' relationship and their backstory that is very dramatic and sad.

I would love to see the Masked Boy in, though. In all honesty, he'd play a perfect role in Lucas' subspace story if the conflict of Mother 3 was included in it. Ness wouldn't really have much of a subspace story idea to work with, though. Ness hardly has an actual backstory other than a destined boy with the ability to use PSI power to defeat Gigyas (who wouldn't make that great of a boss). Lucas, however, would fit right into the story with the conflict he goes through with the Masked Boy and the Pig Army straight from Mother 3.

The whole Lucas-in-place-of-Ness conspiracy only exists because he was intended for the original Smash Bros for the 64; but MOTHER 3 [64DD] was cancelled, so they put Ness instead. The Melee rumour is both false and illogical, and I don't know how so many people got the wrong idea.

No, it's stated in Ness' Japanese profile on the Melee site that he was going to be replaced in Melee. Mother 3 wasn't even planned to be released during the time Smash Bros. was released, so I dunno how they would do that.

Now that MOTHER 3 [GBA] is actually out, there's a higher chance that Lucas (or another MOTHER 3 character) will be in it, but I have my doubts that Ness will be replaced in a game where we've already seen examples of several characters per series. I say Ness stays, Lucas is added (as "suggested" by Starmen.Net's heavily reliable inside person), and there may possibly be a third person.

Do you honestly want two exactly similar characters in at the same time with just one other Mother 3 character? In all honesty, if there's three Mother representatives, I would just go with Lucas, Claus, and Flint and just drop Ness.

 

[Big-Cat]

people also say ness stole his moves ness stole 2 pk fire and thunder

That he did. They're Paula's but Poo has these moves as well, I believe.

As for that Lucas in Melee thing, I believe it's true. If anyone can find a translated version of the Melee site, please post it.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

people also say ness stole his moves ness stole 2 pk fire and thunder

PSI Magnet also came from Paula....

 

[Kirby knight]

No, the Masked Boy, even though it's not like he appeared all the time, is indeed a very important character in Mother 3. The whole plot revolves around him and Lucas' relationship and their backstory that is very dramatic and sad.

I would love to see the Masked Boy in, though. In all honesty, he'd play a perfect role in Lucas' subspace story if the conflict of Mother 3 was included in it. Ness wouldn't really have much of a subspace story idea to work with, though. Ness hardly has an actual backstory other than a destined boy with the ability to use PSI power to defeat Gigyas (who wouldn't make that great of a boss). Lucas, however, would fit right into the story with the conflict he goes through with the Masked Boy and the Pig Army straight from Mother 3.

Thanks for filling that in for me. Now that I know he does play an important role in Mother 3 I think he'd be a nice addition into Brawl rather than having 2 characters that have to steal other peoples moves to prevent becoming clones of each other.

-Knight

 

[Terrabottuti]

And I have to say.... Who gives a freak? This game is not being made in the US or Europe...

Sakurai gives a freak, actually. He's mentioned that now Smash Brothers is world renowned, he'd have to to think twice about including characters that have only appeared in Japan... although he does also mention that the success of the Fire Emblem characters might also convince him to make an exception.

Sakurai is clearly making a game for the fans, and I'm certain he probably knows that it might be too late to replace Ness without making SOME kind of dissapointment. While Ness and Lucas are extremely similar anyway, it's likely Mother 3 would be represented by someone else like Flint or Kumatora, who have both become fan favorites now.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sakurai gives a freak, actually. He's mentioned that now Smash Brothers is world renowned, he'd have to to think twice about including characters that have only appeared in Japan... although he does also mention that the success of the Fire Emblem characters might also convince him to make an exception.

Sakurai is clearly making a game for the fans, and I'm certain he probably knows that it might be too late to replace Ness without making SOME kind of dissapointment. While Ness and Lucas are extremely similar anyway, it's likely Mother 3 would be represented by someone else like Flint or Kumatora, who have both become fan favorites now.

Duster and Boney. Limping thieves and doggies need love too.

 

[Oldskool]

Sakurai gives a freak, actually. He's mentioned that now Smash Brothers is world renowned, he'd have to to think twice about including characters that have only appeared in Japan... although he does also mention that the success of the Fire Emblem characters might also convince him to make an exception.

Sakurai is clearly making a game for the fans, and I'm certain he probably knows that it might be too late to replace Ness without making SOME kind of dissapointment. While Ness and Lucas are extremely similar anyway, it's likely Mother 3 would be represented by someone else like Flint or Kumatora, who have both become fan favorites now.

There is a DIFFERENCE between actually giving a freak, and pretending to give a freak *Cough*devil assist*Cough**Cough* a lot of foreign wanted playables ending up as assist trophies*Cough* *Cough* Japan STILL being the only ones to get the opportunity to suggest characters*Cough* whoo! excuse me thar...

Anything he said casual on that fan submission response, should be taken with a grain of salt. Mother 3 stuff was CONFIRMED BY HIM to be in the game. Ness would not survive the onslaught, and is not worthy of putting in just to satisfy a few noobs scratching their heads at Lucas. That's what the TROPHY section is for.

 

[burrito]

Look at it this way, Ness and Lucas are so similar. I see it as more of an update to Ness than a replacement. It's just like updating OOC Link to TP Link. Why would you be so upset if Ness stripes were changed, he was given blonde hair instead of a hat, and his name was changed? Characters change from game to game, get over it. Plus, maybe it will help to get a copy of Mother 3 over here in the US.

I wouldn't like it if Ness and Lucas were included as seperate characters in Brawl. As I've said earlier, there are much more unique characters that can be included from the Mother series and Ness/Lucas takes up those characters slot. I doubt that we will see 3 Mother characters, either, I don't think there will be enough characters in Brawl to give mother 3 slot.

 

[Terrabottuti]

There is a DIFFERENCE between actually giving a freak, and pretending to give a freak *Cough*devil assist*Cough**Cough* a lot of foreign wanted playables ending up as assist trophies*Cough* *Cough* Japan STILL being the only ones to get the opportunity to suggest characters*Cough* whoo! excuse me thar...

Anything he said casual on that fan submission response, should be taken with a grain of salt. Mother 3 stuff was CONFIRMED BY HIM to be in the game. Ness would not survive the onslaught, and is not worthy of putting in just to satisfy a few noobs scratching their heads at Lucas. That's what the TROPHY section is for.

Well, I didn't really say he would exclusively listen to us, just that he was certainly giving us more consideration than before! Why would he pretend to care about other countries, anyway? This would be a bit of an issue if you're going to make a game that's released worldwide.

Your foreign Assist Trophies point is interesting as well, since Lyn couldn't of possibly of been an Assist Trophy if it weren't for us, since she doesn't have much of a following compared to quite a few other Fire Emblem characters! The same probably goes for Samurai Goroh as well, since I think they wanted to see Black Shadow more.
The Devil Assist trophy will be rather familiar to Japan AND Europe since only the US got him cut out... besides, he's only an assist trophy and doesn't replace any characters that have been playable in the 2 previous games of the Smash series.
The people at Nintendo is obviously going to have more interest in what their home country thinks, but at least they are thinking about us english speakers somewhat.

Also, the Franklin Badge isn't JUST a Mother 3 item anyway, it was in the previous Earthbound game too... the actual design is also based off a promotion for Mother 3, not the actual in-game one. Besides, if a single item is going to confirm franchises now, where the heck was Lip in Melee? I mean, we got her stick, didn't we?
...
And besides, couldn't they just use the trophy section for Lucas and keep the Ness that most players are comfortable with now?

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Look at it this way, Ness and Lucas are so similar. I see it as more of an update to Ness than a replacement. It's just like updating OOC Link to TP Link. Why would you be so upset if Ness stripes were changed, he was given blonde hair instead of a hat, and his name was changed? Characters change from game to game, get over it. Plus, maybe it will help to get a copy of Mother 3 over here in the US.

I wouldn't like it if Ness and Lucas were included as seperate characters in Brawl. As I've said earlier, there are much more unique characters that can be included from the Mother series and Ness/Lucas takes up those characters slot. I doubt that we will see 3 Mother characters, either, I don't think there will be enough characters in Brawl to give mother 3 slot.

Well, you have to admit, if Lucas does have a subspace story that's mildly based on Mother 3's plot, another Mother character like the Masked Boy would almost be needed for it, along with the Pig King as a boss, probably.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, you have to admit, if Lucas does have a subspace story that's mildly based on Mother 3's plot, another Mother character like the Masked Boy would almost be needed for it, along with the Pig King as a boss, probably.

I don't know if the Masked Boy should be in permanently. You would have to be extremely creative to have him in the game without spoiling anything.

 

[burrito]

And besides, couldn't they just use the trophy section for Lucas and keep the Ness that most players are comfortable with now?

Man, I hate this argument, "keep Ness because players are comfortable wit him". Brawl is a new game, it's going to have change, it's going to have new thigns that you will have to become accustomed to. Character's are going to be different in Brawl, it's something people are going to have to learn to deal with.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

I don't know if the Masked Boy should be in permanently. You would have to be extremely creative to have him in the game without spoiling anything.

True, but honestly, Mother 3 is probably going to be spoiled greatly if both him and the Pig King were in it. In Sakurai's mind, he probably knows that Mother 3's story is pretty much familiar all across Japan, so he wouldn't really care much if he implements something big American fans who haven't played it yet. Perhaps he'll have the mindset of introducing what Mother 3 is all about story-wise to American fans through Brawl while having a familiar spirit in Japan. But you never know, knowing Sakurai.

 

[Big-Cat]

True, but honestly, Mother 3 is probably going to be spoiled greatly if both him and the Pig King were in it. In Sakurai's mind, he probably knows that Mother 3's story is pretty much familiar all across Japan, so he wouldn't really care much if he implements something big American fans who haven't played it yet. Perhaps he'll have the mindset of introducing what Mother 3 is all about story-wise to American fans through Brawl while having a familiar spirit in Japan. But you never know, knowing Sakurai.

I think that Lucas and Kumatora should get in if we want it new yet familiar. Both of these were shown, before MOTHER 3's release.

 

[Big-Cat]

True, but honestly, Mother 3 is probably going to be spoiled greatly if both him and the Pig King were in it. In Sakurai's mind, he probably knows that Mother 3's story is pretty much familiar all across Japan, so he wouldn't really care much if he implements something big American fans who haven't played it yet. Perhaps he'll have the mindset of introducing what Mother 3 is all about story-wise to American fans through Brawl while having a familiar spirit in Japan. But you never know, knowing Sakurai.

I think that Lucas and Kumatora should get in if we want it new yet familiar. Both of these were shown, before MOTHER 3's release.

 

[raphtmarqui]

It doest matter to me if Lucas or Ness is in, there both pretty much the same thing anyway.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ness looks cooler and Mother 3 is not world wide available

Earthbound itself has a cult following

 

[pirkid]

I think we're arguing too much, using the same facts over and over and not listening to each other.

Seriously, does it really matter?

Lucas or Ness. I would say both, but I'd get shot with quotes from nowhere.
Ness, he's a classic, like Falcon and Jiggs. Let's just replace them all with Lucas, Jody Summers, and Clefairy!
Or Lucas, he's new. Big froop-and-whoop. He's a good rep, and he's new.
He was only in Japan though.
"SO, H3'5 N3W SHUTUP"
"N0 I W4NT MY N3$$ B4KC"

And we've gone for two pages. Get over it, wait fo Sakurai to catch up.

 

[raphtmarqui]

One should just be a costume.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ness looks cooler and Mother 3 is not world wide available

Earthbound itself has a cult following

No, the series has a cult following, not just Earthbound/MOTHER 2.