Lucas Buff or Nerf Poll

[T-Donor66]

NO BIAS PLEASE! Also please do not vote if you do not know much about Lucas. Thank you.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Where's both as a option?

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

I've learned to work around the bad tools, this community needs to be so quick on calling out on balance.

 

[T-Donor66]

Where's both as a option?

Neither basically means both. If he received an equal amounts of buffs and nerfs, then he was neither buffed or nerfed.

 

[Neku ネク]

I'd consider anything from Brawl to Smash 4 a buff. His moves come out a lot faster and deal more damage with a lot of knockback. His aerials are so fast and can transition quickly. His grab still sucks a little bit, but otherwise I think the overall character received more buffs.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Neither basically means both. If he received an equal amounts of buffs and nerfs, then he was neither buffed or nerfed.

Not really, neither would mean doing nothing.

 

[The Elephant]

This is the way I see it, Lucas can be punished for not hitting the sweet spot on his airials. You should NEVER be punished for landing a hit on your openenlt imo. Also, his grab could use a little less start up

 

[A17]

Not really, neither would mean doing nothing.

OP is talking net amount of changes - the overall results.

Do the buffs outweigh the nerfs or do you feel it's the other way around?

@ T-Donor66 , I think this is what you're trying to ask, no?

 

[MrWhYYZ]

OP is talking net amount of changes - the overall results.

Oh, I've understood it after his response but neither isn't the correct word for it because it would mean none of the above.

 

[T-Donor66]

OP is talking net amount of changes - the overall results.

Do the buffs outweigh the nerfs or do you feel it's the other way around?

@ T-Donor66 , I think this is what you're trying to ask, no?

That is exactly what I mean.

 

[A17]

Oh, I've understood it after his response but neither isn't the correct word for it because it would mean none of the above.

I absolutely agree better wording could've avoided this confusion, and that's why I spoke up so hopefully OP got the hint (if they really care for the quality of his/her own thread).

 

[T-Donor66]

I absolutely agree better wording could've avoided this confusion, and that's why I spoke up so hopefully OP got the hint (if they really care for the quality of his/her own thread).

Excuse me? Are you guys aware you can't edit polls? Do not accuse me of not caring for the quality of my thread when I can't fix a little detail that no one cares about expect you two.

 

[A17]

No no, I wasn't accusing you of being careless. I spoke up to bring the wording to attention.

And no, I wasn't aware the polls on this board could not be edited. That's too bad.

 

[T-Donor66]

No no, I wasn't accusing you of being careless. I spoke up to bring the wording to attention.

And no, I wasn't aware the polls on this board could not be edited. That's too bad.

My wording is fine. Please stop talking about it. Everyone else who voted knows what I meant. Just quit caring about it.

 

[LwYz.Ph.]

No more grab release shenanigans = a buff anyday.

He has almost the same tools as in Brawl but better, like 3 throws that could lead to a KO, even better recovery, 1 more aerial that can kill (upair, the others being bair and dair for being spikes), now has true combos, etc.

You can't beat low level players that easily now, no more Dair to dtil lock kill setup but that thing wouldn't even work vs good players in Brawl anyway. And I almost forgot, now we have to deal with 2 more characters who can gimp the up b pretty easily (Rosa and Villager) so Lucas still has hard counters to deal with. u_u

 

[SpandexBullets]

Lucas's aerials do less shield damage and dair can no longer be auto-canceled. Dair, nair and up-air all have less range as well.

Overall, I think he was minimally buffed and has adapted to Smash 4's physics well, but he's nowhere nearly as good as he could have been if none of those problems existed.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

He was definitely nerfed, damage nerfed, end lag increased, the only thing buffed was the ability to combo, but they don't even do that much damage honestly.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I suppose there's always going to be high tier and low tier characters, but Lucas could honestly do with some buffs while retaining his unique playstyle. He has a glaring weakness in his inability to kill even at mid percents outside of advertised moves coupled with combos that do unimpressive damage. Like honestly, you can string all the n-airs you want, but pretty much every other character could do the same damage with less effort and more return. I'm not going to hope for Brawl Lucas damage (can you imagine 17% n-airs and 20% d-airs in this game?), but at least make the low reach aerials a bit more rewarding to land.

It's also pretty clear they tried to balance out Lucas' throws with his terrible grab. For all the disadvantages carried by a tether, at least make it so that it outranges some of the sword characters moves. I see you stretching when you reach for that ledge, Rope Snake, why can't you stretch a bit more for the grab? It narrows down kill options even more.

Or maybe there are people who're struggling against Lucas and think the fat-headed blond kid should be nerfed even more. I don't know. Perspective.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

I suppose there's always going to be high tier and low tier characters, but Lucas could honestly do with some buffs while retaining his unique playstyle. He has a glaring weakness in his inability to kill even at mid percents outside of advertised moves coupled with combos that do unimpressive damage. Like honestly, you can string all the n-airs you want, but pretty much every other character could do the same damage with less effort and more return. I'm not going to hope for Brawl Lucas damage (can you imagine 17% n-airs and 20% d-airs in this game?), but at least make the low reach aerials a bit more rewarding to land.

It's also pretty clear they tried to balance out Lucas' throws with his terrible grab. For all the disadvantages carried by a tether, at least make it so that it outranges some of the sword characters moves. I see you stretching when you reach for that ledge, Rope Snake, why can't you stretch a bit more for the grab? It narrows down kill options even more.

Or maybe there are people who're struggling against Lucas and think the fat-headed blond kid should be nerfed even more. I don't know. Perspective.

uair hitbox already cries, no more nerfs pls.

 

[pikazz]

I think Lucas got buffed in many areas from brawl counterpart. he still can kill, he can setup, he has really good throws, his ZAir is twice as long and twice as effective than in brawl.

the only thing I think is as bad or worse is his grab. I have a feeling that lucas Pivot grab was a tad faster in brawl than in smash4

 

[SpandexBullets]

Lucas has no problem killing; his f-smash is deceptively fast and powerful, and his d-smash has a huge hitboxes.
But he needs buffs to compete with Ness.
• 50% bigger hitboxes on up-air, nair, dair and fair
• Slightly better shield damage on nair and dair
• Slightly faster falling speed
• More hitstun on dtilt
• Autocancel fair, nair and dair (if last hit doesn't come out, like Kirby's)
• PK less start up lag

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Lucas has no problem killing; his f-smash is deceptively fast and powerful, and his d-smash has a huge hitboxes.
But he needs buffs to compete with Ness.
• 50% bigger hitboxes on up-air, nair, dair and fair
• Slightly better shield damage on nair and dair
• Slightly faster falling speed
• More hitstun on dtilt
• Autocancel fair, nair and dair (if last hit doesn't come out, like Kirby's)
• PK less start up lag

Dsmash if shielded won't hit again, so if they shield it they can punish without getting hit by the next 2 hits.

Fsmash is his only good smash attack that's semi-reliable imo.

Dsmash can edgeguard sometimes.

 

[A Polar Bear]

Oh, and buff PK Thunder end lag. We don't need to see Lucas spin and pirouette and win gold in world championship ballet after every PKT usage.

 

[T-Donor66]

In my opinion, I would say buffed. He has lots of combo potential in this game.

 

[SpandexBullets]

In my opinion, I would say buffed. He has lots of combo potential in this game.

It's good, but it's not the GOAT

 

[Sleeplessacee]

In my opinion, I would say buffed. He has lots of combo potential in this game.

I agree he does have good combo potential however he has no damage with it. Characters will hit you with a few moves and probably catch up on damage you did with your super fancy combo.

The believe he needs to be buff in these ways
-Reduce end lag on pk thunder theres no reason i should be punished for hitting a off stage opponent with pk thunder because im spinning there for years after its over I've also seen some kill set ups missed because it has so much end lag sometimes opponents will land right in front of me after the thunder is over because it made them recover odd and i can't do anything about it but stands there with my arms crossed.

-Reduce the Start up and end lag on his grab and slightly buff the range seriously he probably has the worst ranged grab in the game. Its reach isn't the best. sometimes it'll whiff a opponent right in front of me. it doesn't seem to have a vortex that pulls you in like zss or link or even samus it'll literally tickle your opponents belly and come back not to mention you have forever to punish it

-Reduce the start up of up smash a TINY bit there have been many times I've been hit out of my up smash from a mashing opponent even though i got the read on them because it takes too long for the i frames to activate

-Reduce how far someone can go with the down throw i feel like i should have just did a f throw if they were gonna go that far i only say this because i have missed so many up airs at the correct percent because the d throw isnt consistent enough and his up air doesn't have enough range so he'll straight up miss right next to the opponent and if you cant land this on a good opponent good luck landing up smash or down smash it'll be hard to get the read of them and your best bet will be to spam f smash.

-I think his up and down smash should have more knock back when someone shields it not enough to make it safe but enough to push a opponent off the ledge consistently if they're next to it to allow better ledge guard options kinda like Mario's f smash knock back.

Let me know if i missed anything and what you guys think

 

[yoshi8984]

I might be one of the few who thinks he's been nerfed. I'm actually enjoying Lucas less than I did in Brawl.

- F-Smash has WAY less Knockback.

- Oh god the Grabs (even pivot ones) are horrendous (weren't tether grabs supposed to be less laggy compared to Brawl?)

- D-Tilt doesn't trip anymore (or at least there's an odd hitbox for it to do so).

- Fair has more lag and isn't safe on shield anymore.

- Nair hits only 6 times (unsure about the damage output).

- Hitbox on Uair is SO BAD (I don't get why it doesn't hit in the front like Ness).

- PK Freeze has to be released to explode on ground level (before it didn't).

- Magnet Pull & Zap Jump are gone (I thought the latter would at least still be in since Ness can still PK Jump) .

- His throws aren't as strong as they once were (but I get D-Throw is meant for combos).

- F-Tilt decreased Knockback even on sweetspot (to be fair I feel like most F-Tilts were since pivot F-Tils are possible now lol, look at Ness', Peach's and I think Ike's which could KO decently in Brawl)

- Magnet can't absorb from behind anymore. :/

==

I might just be looking into this too much and overlooking his potential though. =P

 

[SpandexBullets]

I might be one of the few who thinks he's been nerfed. I'm actually enjoying Lucas less than I did in Brawl.

- F-Smash has WAY less Knockback.

- Oh god the Grabs (even pivot ones) are horrendous (weren't tether grabs supposed to be less laggy compared to Brawl?)

- D-Tilt doesn't trip anymore (or at least there's an odd hitbox for it to do so).

- Fair has more lag and isn't safe on shield anymore.

- Nair hits only 6 times (unsure about the damage output).

- Hitbox on Uair is SO BAD (I don't get why it doesn't hit in the front like Ness).

- PK Freeze has to be released to explode on ground level (before it didn't).

- Magnet Pull & Zap Jump are gone (I thought the latter would at least still be in since Ness can still PK Jump) .

- His throws aren't as strong as they once were (but I get D-Throw is meant for combos).

- F-Tilt decreased Knockback even on sweetspot (to be fair I feel like most F-Tilts were since pivot F-Tils are possible now lol, look at Ness', Peach's and I think Ike's which could KO decently in Brawl)

- Magnet can't absorb from behind anymore. :/

==

I might just be looking into this too much and overlooking his potential though. =P

He has a completely superior kill game in contrast to Brawl, which is every throw but down throw, f-smash (still very, very good and FAST), sweetspot fair (still disjointed) and great meteor smashes that can trick opponents due to low landing lag (on bair anyway).

As well as that, his down throw combos with up-air till 140% on most of the cast, so maybe that's why it was nerfed. I really think you should be able to autocancel dair before the last hit tho :/

 

[TurboLink]

They need to buff his PK Freeze. Give him more control over his PK Freeze please.