Show me any Lucas vid out there with few exception and I'll show you Fair being almost 100% useless on grounded opponents unless they're in lag or made a critical error. It is not a good approach. It will almost always lead to sheilding and usually punishment. Bairs are safer because you can keep a safe distance away and not have any lag. In addition, the fact that you can fastfall bairs safely unlike Fairs means that in many ways its speed is greatly enhanced by the lack of time you have to spend in the air unprotected.
You can use an fair and DI backwards to make it a safer approach. If you use it early enough in a short hop, you can land with no lag allowing Lucas to escape safely and not get shield punished.
Start up time is not necesarily something that detracts from an aerial. Take for example Melee DK's Fair. One of the slowest start up times in the game and yet one of his most commonly used aerials and a major kill move. Now take for example Melee Ness's Dair. Some situation. Very slow start up and yet a very useful move for him. Lucas's Bair just follows the same principles that these do. You need timing and spacing to use them effectively.
What bothers me about this argument is that those moves were excessively powerful, which makes up for the slow startup time, unlike Lucas' bair. The quicker fair even has more knockback and the general rule that follows is that less speed means more power and vice verse. Lucas' bair doesn't follow this rule.
You have to bear in mind the TINY hitbox that Lucas's Fair has. This is the worst thing about it. More importantly, this tiny hitbox covers hardly any of Lucas's body meaning that MANY attacks will go right through it and hurt Lucas as well as the opponent. The only part of you that is protected is Lucas's outstretched leg and that very small spark that covers only directly in front of Lucas. Bair on the other hand stretches above Lucas's head all the way down below his feet.
Okay, I'll give you that.
The two moves have very similar priority but for both, they will only outprioritize moves if the opponent move hits Lucas's foot. You can test this by using both moves on Samus's missiles for example. If the sparks hit the missile it will go right through and hit Lucas but if his foot hits it will destroy the missile. This means that for the Fair you have only that little foot poke that is safe while the rest of Lucas's body is exposed. The bair on the other hand swings the foot around protecting Lucas's entire side 180 degrees.
Same as above
Bair does have less knockback than Fair but not by a ton. If your opponent happens to be in the air and open to attack by all means use Fair because it's stronger and considerably safer to use on aerial opponents than it is on grounded opponents. If your opponent made an obvious mistake or is in lag then definetly choose Fair over Bair because it will send them back further. But Fair IS NOT A SAFE APPROACH on a grounded opponent while Bair is. That is why the Bair is useful. And for spiking of course. Which isn't really that hard, you just have to predict your opponent's recovery.
You forgot one thing here though. Yes, the fair has more knockback in general, but it is also more consistent. The strongest hitbox of the bair is not always veryeasy to hit with, and even then, you must remember it is less.
And i just think of it this way. Fair has more speed and power. Speed and power>Defense, at least when it comes to aerials. Besides, I dont think the fair is as bad of an approach as you say it is. I dont think it loses that category by much, while the bair is much worse in terms of speed, and a little less in power (it's inconsistent).
I'm not discounting the use of Fair entirely. If you can get away with it, by all means do so. But if your opponent ever predicts it, they can punish you bad for it. I've seen countless videos where people do it. It's just a move that doesn't space well and doesn't protect you well.
You sure? It seems to me like the fair and bair have similar range, at least in front. And remember, you CAN DI back for safety.
If I had to compare Fair to an aerial in Melee I'd say it's most like Fox's Uair. An amazingly good move if used in the air but you can't use it as an approach because 1. It has a small hitbox that leaves his body vulnerable 2. It has more lag upon landing than other aerials even with L cancelling 3. There are better and safer options.
Again Uair is one of Fox's best moves...but ONLY in the air. The only other time you'd ever use it is if the opponent left themselves obviously open to it. Lucas's fair is very comparable. It has greater knockback than Bair so if you hit with it it's better. But you have a higher chance of being punished for using it as an air to ground approach than you do if you use his Bair. I have seen countless Lucas videos and analyzed them to see what works and what doesn't. Nearly EVERY SINGLE TIME you see someone using Fair on a grounded opponent it is sheilded and punished. It may be a fast aerial but Lucas is not so fast that you can't see it coming a mile away. Oh and you can retreat Bairs just as easily and again with more safety.[/QUOTE]
What lag upon landing? Remember, you can land with no lag with Lucas' fair out of a short hop. No lag at all is better than an autocancel which is your only option with the bair.
Like I said earlier, you can retreat fairs too.
Idk, you apparently lkove the bair and I'll let you do that, but I just think the fair has most of what's important to me in an aerial over the bair.
Damage: Fair
Knockback: Fair
Startup: Fair
Ease of use: Fair
Range: Tie
Lag: Fair (if you finish the aerial before you land)
Defense: Bair
Priority: Tie
That's what I have gathered at least. I could be wrong.
