Lucario Mega Evolution Mechanics

[Neo Zero]

What if its like X factor? You're 2 or more points behind, so when you spawn you're Mega Lucario?

...ugh, please no.

 

[Jerm]

The main reason that has me thinking that it isn't a final smash is this: In the direct they mentioned that Mega Lucario is Lucario at max aura. If this is true, then what's the point of getting the smash ball if you're at max aura already?

Well it would be pretty good say if you die and come back at 0% then get the smash ball but other than that yea it would be extremely underwhelming if you are already at a high percentage.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well it would be pretty good say if you die and come back at 0% then get the smash ball but other that yea it would be extremely underwhelming if you are already at a high percentage.

Pretty much this, especially if Lucario somehow got the Pity Final Smash. But since Lucario's mechanics focus on aura, Mega Lucario has to have its ups and downs.

 

[Gimj]

My opinion is that you are all over/wishful-thinking. Charizard's Final Smash (seemingly) turning the stage darker while Lucario's ME (seemingly) doesn't, does not mean that Lucario's ME isn't also a FS. Sakurai probably wants each ME Final Smash have a different taste or uniqueness when you get it. Maybe when Lucario gets it, a big flash of blue aura stuff comes, while Charizard makes it darkened to give him the "scary dragon" vibe. It could be something as simple as that.

Mega Lucario having max aura power also, to me, doesn't seem to justify it not being a FS. First of all, if Lucario's FS was a ME, and he already was designed to have a rising aura mechanic, wouldn't it be common sense to make his FS always give him max aura? For all we know, that's just one feature behind a much more powerful FS. What if he has increased recovery? Faster running speed? Super-Armor? Jumps higher? All are still possible. And not labeling it a FS doesn't necessarily mean it's not one either. Sakurai could've wanted to focus on the fact it's a Mega Evolution, something the fans wanted, or was simply overlooked labeling it as a Final Smash in the video editing.

How would it work without being a FS? All his B buttons are known, and he can get max aura without a ME. All of his taunts are known, and are the same as Brawl's. No hint is even made at any of them triggering anything, plus we've seen his "powering-up" taunt not achieve anything. No mid-game transformations(FS aside) confirmed, and a moveset based ME would in-fact count as a transformation...which is confusing and somewhat contradictory. Granted it's not a moveset change, it's still a transformation nonetheless. What about his FS then? If he gets the Smash Ball while in ME, would his Aura Storm be more powerful? If so, it would be quite annoying to have to align the ME with a FS to make the most out of his FS. If not, then it's pretty stupid that a ME's FS is the exact same strength as normal Lucario's FS.

We have to overcome these evidences to believe it's not a FS:

1. His ME is timed; it blinks when running out. This is identical to previous transformation FSes. Also, this hints at it being very powerful and not underwhelming, hence the duration cap.

2. Mega Lucario was shown at the end of the Direct alongside Mega Charizard X(confirmed FS), and a Greninja FS. Would they really put a non-FS together with 2 FSes? Just doesn't really make sense to me; why not show his more epic and actual FS since you already showed us his ME previously?

3. Transformations mid-match are deconfirmed. Even if his ME doesn't change his moveset, it still counts as a transformation in every sense of the word. Contradictory to Sakurai's statements.

4. Taunts and B moves all achieve nothing regarding a ME. Nothing like this is remotely hinted at, at all. It can't even be assumed reliably is the epitome of imagination. Where is the room for this very specialized ME that Charizard couldn't have? This theory seems to cater to Lucario way too much, in a way that diminishes Charizard.

5. First impressions from the finale of the Direct are that they are all FSes(Lucario, Charizard, Greninja). It's almost obvious that's what Sakurai + friends intended.

6. Charizard having a FS ME while Lucario has a moveset-based ME just screams weird. Charizard's will have to be stronger than Lucario's since Charizard's is a FS and Lucario's isn't...Why do that? Okay say they are equal in power...why give Charizard an underwhelming FS? Lucario's ME would just weigh his down. This would also mean that Lucario's FS would be better than Charizard's if this were the case. They both have equally-powered MEs, Charizard's is his FS, Lucario's is within his moveset. This leaves room, obviously, for an increase in power with Lucario's FS. It would undoubtedly be stronger than Charizard's FS simply because it graduates their equally-powered ME, as a FS, since Lucario's ME is within his moveset. His moveset based ME just has to be weaker than his FS. This really just seems to awkward to be true, not to mention unnecessarily complex.

7. A sufficiently-damaged Lucario can achieve the exact same power as a Mega Lucario, if Mega Lucario is just as stated, a max aura boost(and therefore not a FS). Mega Lucario MUST have other unannounced powers that make it worthy of a ME...which would also make it worthy of a FS.

The straightforward conclusion, I think, is that Lucario's FS is indeed a Mega Evolution.

 

[lightdasher]

No hint is even made at any of them triggering anything, plus we've seen his "powering-up" taunt not achieve anything.

Source now or you're entire post is just spouting ****

 

[Gune]

My opinion is that you are all over/wishful-thinking. Charizard's Final Smash (seemingly) turning the stage darker while Lucario's ME (seemingly) doesn't, does not mean that Lucario's ME isn't also a FS. Sakurai probably wants each ME Final Smash have a different taste or uniqueness when you get it. Maybe when Lucario gets it, a big flash of blue aura stuff comes, while Charizard makes it darkened to give him the "scary dragon" vibe. It could be something as simple as that.

​

Well it goes both ways in no way does charizard having its FS as a ME confirm lucarios especially when sakurai never said anything about Lucario, the dark effect is just a stepping stone to the main point as Lucarios would most likely have one too as they are both Megas and megas all transform in the same manner.

Mega Lucario having max aura power also, to me, doesn't seem to justify it not being a FS. First of all, if Lucario's FS was a ME, and he already was designed to have a rising aura mechanic, wouldn't it be common sense to make his FS always give him max aura? For all we know, that's just one feature behind a much more powerful FS. What if he has increased recovery? Faster running speed? Super-Armor? Jumps higher? All are still possible. And not labeling it a FS doesn't necessarily mean it's not one either. Sakurai could've wanted to focus on the fact it's a Mega Evolution, something the fans wanted, or was simply overlooked labeling it as a Final Smash in the video editing.

Actually it is possible for it to have different capabilities but ounce again why didn't sakurai say that? I also doubt that Lucario is the only one they overlooked with the labeling as it could have easily just said "Final smash: Mega Evolution" just like the others had but it was'nt.

How would it work without being a FS? All his B buttons are known, and he can get max aura without a ME. All of his taunts are known, and are the same as Brawl's. No hint is even made at any of them triggering anything, plus we've seen his "powering-up" taunt not achieve anything. No mid-game transformations(FS aside) confirmed, and a moveset based ME would in-fact count as a transformation...which is confusing and somewhat contradictory. Granted it's not a moveset change, it's still a transformation nonetheless. What about his FS then? If he gets the Smash Ball while in ME, would his Aura Storm be more powerful? If so, it would be quite annoying to have to align the ME with a FS to make the most out of his FS. If not, then it's pretty stupid that a ME's FS is the exact same strength as normal Lucario's FS.

Actually its not contradicting sakurai because he said he didn't want transformation charecters because he wants people to be able to focus playing one moveset not 2 or 3, Lucario and Mega Luc have the same shape size and move set so its not a problem to do.


We have to overcome these evidences to believe it's not a FS:

1. His ME is timed; it blinks when running out. This is identical to previous transformation FSes. Also, this hints at it being very powerful and not underwhelming, hence the duration cap.

Just because its timed does not mean its very powerful if it was sakurai wouldn't just say it does one thing and that's it.

2. Mega Lucario was shown at the end of the Direct alongside Mega Charizard X(confirmed FS), and a Greninja FS. Would they really put a non-FS together with 2 FSes? Just doesn't really make sense to me; why not show his more epic and actual FS since you already showed us his ME previously?

I think that had more to do with Greninja and 6th gen than showing off Lucarios FS as they showed mega charizard and Mega Lucario then went on to end it with Greninjas FS.

3. Transformations mid-match are deconfirmed. Even if his ME doesn't change his moveset, it still counts as a transformation in every sense of the word. Contradictory to Sakurai's statements.

As I stated above move set changes are deconfirmed cosmetic changes are not.

4. Taunts and B moves all achieve nothing regarding a ME. Nothing like this is remotely hinted at, at all. It can't even be assumed reliably is the epitome of imagination. Where is the room for this very specialized ME that Charizard couldn't have? This theory seems to cater to Lucario way too much, in a way that diminishes Charizard.

It caters towards Lucario because sakurai was being oddly vague for something he doesent need to be, while charizard he didn't say a thing about until a while ago he said it straightforward that charizards is a FS. It is somewhat hinted that its a new mechanic with Sakurai not even mentioning it was a FS and him leaving out details when others had the details on their moves explained just fine.

5. First impressions from the finale of the Direct are that they are all FSes(Lucario, Charizard, Greninja). It's almost obvious that's what Sakurai + friends intended.

This is just a assupmtion just like mine above as we still don't know if sakurai was just showing off gen 6 representation.

6. Charizard having a FS ME while Lucario has a moveset-based ME just screams weird. Charizard's will have to be stronger than Lucario's since Charizard's is a FS and Lucario's isn't...Why do that? Okay say they are equal in power...why give Charizard an underwhelming FS? Lucario's ME would just weigh his down. This would also mean that Lucario's FS would be better than Charizard's if this were the case. They both have equally-powered MEs, Charizard's is his FS, Lucario's is within his moveset. This leaves room, obviously, for an increase in power with Lucario's FS. It would undoubtedly be stronger than Charizard's FS simply because it graduates their equally-powered ME, as a FS, since Lucario's ME is within his moveset. His moveset based ME just has to be weaker than his FS. This really just seems to awkward to be true, not to mention unnecessarily complex.

Your making it to difficult Lucario and Charizard don't have the same mechanics Lucario is bound by aura buffs and debuffs while charizard isn't he is just a pure reckless damage dealer, charizard could have a plethora of things at his disposal (infinite flying,Invincibility/ super armour, attack and KB boosts) while Lucario just gets Max aura something he can do already without a smashball. Charizard has possibilities for his ME to be viable while Lucario doesent so its pretty fair especially since his ME is timed and most likely will be limited with a Guage or some kind of limitation.

7. A sufficiently-damaged Lucario can achieve the exact same power as a Mega Lucario, if Mega Lucario is just as stated, a max aura boost(and therefore not a FS). Mega Lucario MUST have other unannounced powers that make it worthy of a ME...which would also make it worthy of a FS.

Trust me If sakurai announces anything new about Mega Luc having to do with any invince or anything of that caliber then I'll believe its a FS untill then it just seems to underpowered for a FS.

The straightforward conclusion, I think, is that Lucario's FS is indeed a Mega Evolution.

My response are in White.

Not saying its a FS and Not saying its a new Mechanic for him but what I'm saying is just because charizard has a ME for a FS we can't just assume Lucario will too especially when each side has enough evidence to counter each other, we just have to wait for more info.

 

[Gimj]

Source now or you're entire post is just spouting ****

Hmm, this makes it seem like you're emotionally attatched to the notion of a non-FS ME. Not a convincing stand to take there, anyway:

Source for no hint at Lucario's moveset triggering a ME:

• Every piece of information we have received thus far does not hint at it. Every move has been shown in it's own right, instead of implying it figures into his ME. There is no evidence or support for the notion that "Some/All of Lucario's moveset can trigger a ME." No information has been given that implies that power. Prove me wrong.

Source for "powering-up" taunt not achieving anything:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs&t=36m14s

Well it goes both ways in no way does charizard having its FS as a ME confirm lucarios especially when sakurai never said anything about Lucario, the dark effect is just a stepping stone to the main point as Lucarios would most likely have one too as they are both Megas and megas all transform in the same manner.

You assume that Sakurai will make the same ME animation for every FS in SSB4. He could very well do that, but that doesn't limit him to do the same exact animation/effects. Lucario used a move that didn't exist in Pokemon for crying out loud. What if there is the standard ME animation, then an additional effect based on who's ME it is? It could explain why Charizard's differs. Like normal ME animation + darkness for Charizard, and normal ME animation + aura explosion for Lucario. I don't see why this couldn't happen.

More importantly, I'm not convinced the map even gets darker for Charizard's FS. Look at the most recent pic of it:

That's not what i call "dark." The map going darker exclusively for Charizard is the best "evidence" we have that Lucario's ME isn't a FS/the same as Charizard's, and even that doesn't seem to be true in light of new evidence.

Actually it is possible for it to have different capabilities but ounce again why didn't sakurai say that? I also doubt that Lucario is the only one they overlooked with the labeling as it could have easily just said "Final smash: Mega Evolution" just like the others had but it was'nt.

Sakurai didn't clarify a lot of things, he didn't clarify if Mega Charizard X was a FS...but yet it was. He is simply withholding, or just not giving us every and any information about everything shown.

Actually its not contradicting sakurai because he said he didn't want transformation charecters because he wants people to be able to focus playing one moveset not 2 or 3, Lucario and Mega Luc have the same shape size and move set so its not a problem to do.

I'm aware of that, but all I'm saying is that it goes against the new precedent of "no changing forms mid-match." It would just be quite unusual to have Lucario change forms mid-match, despite Sakurai saying that "all characters who change forms no longer change." It's possible, you're right, but it would still go against that precedent.

Just because its timed does not mean its very powerful if it was sakurai wouldn't just say it does one thing and that's it.

Why not? He's done that a bunch of times before. He's revealed something totally new to the Smash series, and not say anything about it. Off the top of my head, for example, Zelda's new Down B. We had no clue what it was all about, yet he revealed it in such a low-informational way. Also, I disagree that if it's timed it doesn't mean it's powerful. All timed transformations to exist in Smash Bros are very powerful(Super Sonic, Wario-Man, Giga Bowser, Landmasters) There is no exception to the rule, and it just makes sense when you think about it. Why have a weak-transformation be timed? It must not be that weak then, lol. It has to be strong, because to limit the duration of it means if it had unlimited duration it would be too strong. I mean I think it's obvious that a timed transformation = very powerful.

I think that had more to do with Greninja and 6th gen than showing off Lucarios FS as they showed mega charizard and Mega Lucario then went on to end it with Greninjas FS.

I think that's just imagination bro, sorry lol. They showed 2 FSes and "1 non-FS" because of 6th Gen? That sounds contrived to me rather than the straightforward conclusion that they are showing off their Final Smashes. It's just far more likely.

As I stated above move set changes are deconfirmed cosmetic changes are not.

Mega Lucario was confirmed to not be only a cosmetic change. "After it's Mega Evolution, all of Lucario's aura attacks will do maximum damage." This implies Lucario transforms, then is granted maximum aura damage. That's a direct quote.

It caters towards Lucario because sakurai was being oddly vague for something he doesent need to be, while charizard he didn't say a thing about until a while ago he said it straightforward that charizards is a FS. It is somewhat hinted that its a new mechanic with Sakurai not even mentioning it was a FS and him leaving out details when others had the details on their moves explained just fine.

Sakurai was even more vague about Charizard's ME FS. Lucario's ME at least got a description about what it does once transformed, Charizard's wasn't explained at all. Sakurai being vague for no reason doesn't mean anything, he simply didn't choose to provide all the information we want. I'm sorry, that doesn't add up to a "hint" to me. He simply showed that Lucario Mega Evolves, described an effect of it, and was done with it. Him not adding "It also is a Final Smash" doesn't therefore mean "it's a new mechanic." That's a pure assumption/wishful thinking on your part. Charizard's details were left out, yet here we are, it is a Final Smash.

This is just a assupmtion just like mine above as we still don't know if sakurai was just showing off gen 6 representation.

I really don't see how anyone would get this as an explanation. This, again, seems contrived. That is an awfully weird conclusion to draw to me, I mean we already seen Gen 6 Pokemon before that in the Direct anyway...which makes your conclusion unlikely. We saw: Fennekin, Gogoat, and Xerneas, all Gen 6ers. Mine seems to be the more likely conclusion: He's showing off Final Smashes of the Pokemon(2 Confirmed FS, 1 in the air, 66% chance I'm correct, 33% chance you are).

Your making it to difficult Lucario and Charizard don't have the same mechanics Lucario is bound by aura buffs and debuffs while charizard isn't he is just a pure reckless damage dealer, charizard could have a plethora of things at his disposal (infinite flying,Invincibility/ super armour, attack and KB boosts) while Lucario just gets Max aura something he can do already without a smashball. Charizard has possibilities for his ME to be viable while Lucario doesent so its pretty fair especially since his ME is timed and most likely will be limited with a Guage or some kind of limitation.

"Bound by aura buffs and debuffs." Huh? Debuffs? He has none. His aura strength is not a bond, it is a strength. He never "gets weaker", only an increase in power by his aura. When he dies, he restarts, just like any other character. In no way does his aura mechanic limit his power, or ME, at all. You are still assuming his ME only makes him get max aura. There is plentiful room for more features, you admitted it yourself earlier:

Actually it is possible for it to have different capabilities but ounce again why didn't sakurai say that?

So you're contradicting yourself actually, therefore this paragraph here is hard to take seriously. You should clarify.

Trust me If sakurai announces anything new about Mega Luc having to do with any invince or anything of that caliber then I'll believe its a FS untill then it just seems to underpowered for a FS.

How does it seem underpowered when you have no idea what it's totality is? You only know "it gives him max aura." That's it. Like we both said, there is plenty of room for additional power. If I use your logic though, why can't I assume Charizard's ME only improves his flight? It's all that's been shown so far right? So should I therefore conclude it's the only thing it improves on? Of course not, and you shouldn't either.

Not saying its a FS and Not saying its a new Mechanic for him but what I'm saying is just because charizard has a ME for a FS we can't just assume Lucario will too especially when each side has enough evidence to counter each other, we just have to wait for more info.

I think your side is lacking, sorry. I've shown plenty of evidence for my view.

Response in blue quote.

 

[lightdasher]

Source for "powering-up" taunt not achieving anything:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs&t=36m14s

Response in blue quote.

That doesn't even appear for a whole second.

Every piece of information we have received thus far does not hint at it. Every move has been shown in it's own right, instead of implying it figures into his ME. There is no evidence or support for the notion that "Some/All of Lucario's moveset can trigger a ME." No information has been given that implies that power. Prove me wrong.

You can't prove a negative you bloody conch

 

[Gimj]

That doesn't even appear for a whole second.

Irrelevant, it's about the footage shown. If you looked carefully, you would see that his aura begins to die down at the end. Please pay attention to detail, that proves that it's simply his old taunt revamped. If it were linked to a Mega Evolution, you wouldn't see a decrease in the amount of aura appearing from him. Instead, you would see a continual rise until the transformation. That footage didn't show a continuous rise, the aura effect starts to deplete, exactly like his old taunt.

It's also just commonsensical, they've shown this taunt in footage and pictures with no implication towards a Mega Evolution. Again, I ask, where is the evidence that any of his moves are involved in triggering a Mega Evolution?

You can't prove a negative you bloody conch

This is common internet atheist pseudo-logic that is parroted to no end, and all it shows is feint intellectuality. It also shows a grave misunderstanding about philosophy as well as science. Listen, it is entirely possible to prove a negative, don't believe the hype. It's demonstrably false. We can prove that there are no married bachelors, for example. We can prove there exists no Tyrannosaurus Rex inside volcanoes. We can prove that there is no evidence for Santa Clause's existence. We can prove there is no round square. We can prove a tiger is not bigger than a 747. We can prove that 5-6 equals a negative. We can prove there exists no integer between 1 and 2.

I can keep going on and on. Additionally, you are not required to prove a negative. All you need to prove, is that there is evidence that some/all of Lucario's moves trigger his ME. That is not proving a negative, you're not being asked to "prove there is no evidence." That's what I'm doing. You're being asked to prove a positive, actually. I am also providing evidence for my case: "there is evidence that Lucario's moves don't trigger his ME."

Do you really think it's impossible to prove someone wrong? I highly doubt that.

P.S. How exactly does "bloody conch" work as an insult? What is that supposed to mean, lmao? I'm slow?

Responses in quote are blue.

 

[lightdasher]

Responses in quote are blue.

I still think that clip is too short to tell.

Also, put a conch shell to your ear, you only hear the "sea"

 

[Gune]

@ Gimj

You assume that Sakurai will make the same ME animation for every FS in SSB4. He could very well do that, but that doesn't limit him to do the same exact animation/effects. Lucario used a move that didn't exist in Pokemon for crying out loud. What if there is the standard ME animation, then an additional effect based on who's ME it is? It could explain why Charizard's differs. Like normal ME animation + darkness for Charizard, and normal ME animation + aura explosion for Lucario. I don't see why this couldn't happen.

More importantly, I'm not convinced the map even getsdarker for Charizard's FS. Look at the most recent pic of it:

That's not what i call "dark." The map going darker exclusively for Charizard is the best "evidence" we have that Lucario's ME isn't a FS/the same as Charizard's, and even that doesn't seem to be true in light of new evidence.

The best evidence was the fact it is under powered and sakurai never said it was a FS while everyone else who showed a FS It was stated as a such while Lucarios mega evolution wasn't, Not to mention Lucarios Hud display isn't finished either which could mean he is still applying the Gauge I was speculating, Overall there are little things pointing to it not being a FS you don't have to believe them but they are valid points. If you can't see how dark the background is then compare the it with another picture of Skyloft it is noticably darker considering the stage doesent darken on its own at all.

Sakurai didn't clarify a lot of things, he didn't clarify if Mega Charizard X was a FS...but yet it was. He is simply withholding, or just not giving us every and any information about everything shown.

That's completely different Mega charizard was shown in a quick clip with no information Mega Lucario was shown in a segment that was supposed to explain the mechanics of it all we got was that it keeps you at full aura obviously holding back info probably for a good reason.

I'm aware of that, but all I'm saying is that it goes against the new precedent of "no changing forms mid-match." It would just be quite unusual to have Lucario change forms mid-match, despite Sakurai saying that "all characters who change forms no longer change." It's possible, you're right, but it would still go against that precedent.

I won't argue this because it could go either way with how flip flop sakurai is.

Why not? He's done that a bunch of times before. He's revealed something totally new to the Smash series, and not say anything about it. Off the top of my head, for example, Zelda's new Down B. We had no clue what it was all about, yet he revealed it in such a low-informational way. Also, I disagree that if it's timed it doesn't mean it's powerful. Alltimed transformations to exist in Smash Bros are very powerful(Super Sonic, Wario-Man, Giga Bowser, Landmasters) There is no exception to the rule, and it just makes sense when you think about it. Why have a weak-transformation be timed? It must not be that weak then, lol. It has to be strong, because to limit the duration of it means if it had unlimited duration it would be too strong. I mean I think it's obvious that a timed transformation = very powerful

Like I said before if it was so powerful why say only one thing about it in the information direct while Zelda had her phantom move explained in depth, everyone else had there moves explained had them explained fully except for Lucario which leads me to believe he's hiding something more than just a FS which he could've just called it in the first place.

I think that's just imagination bro, sorry lol. They showed 2 FSes and "1 non-FS" because of6th Gen? That sounds contrived to me rather than the straightforward conclusion that they are showing off their Final Smashes. It's just far more likely.

If the one non FS coincides with the other two then yes they would show it, I mean think about it what if Lucario still has Aura storm as a FS why would they show that when mega Lucario would show off his gen 6 representation like greninja and charizard are doing? Its not imagination its just you don't see it that way and that's fine.

Mega Lucario was confirmed tonot be only a cosmetic change. "After it's Mega Evolution, all of Lucario's aura attacks will do maximum damage." This implies Lucario transforms, then is granted maximum aura damage. That's a direct quote.

I was specifically talking about the cosmetic changes on Lucs ME not the whole thing because its aura boost.

Sakurai was even more vagueabout Charizard's ME FS. Lucario's ME at least got a description about what it does once transformed, Charizard's wasn't explained at all. Sakurai being vague for no reason doesn't mean anything, he simply didn't choose to provide all the information we want. I'm sorry, that doesn't add up to a "hint" to me. He simply showed that Lucario Mega Evolves, described an effect of it, and was done with it. Him not adding "It also is a Final Smash" doesn't therefore mean "it's a new mechanic." That's a pure assumption/wishful thinking on your part. Charizard's details were left out, yet here we are, it is a Final Smash.

Charizard was'nt in a veteran overview where sakurai was supposed to explain new mechanics moves buffs and debuffs and such which makes this a awkward comparison, I'm not assuming it is a new mechanic just like I'm not assuming its a FS just because its timed or charizard has one either, I just think he is holding back information on something more than just a FS.

I really don't see how anyone would get this as an explanation. This, again, seems contrived. That is an awfully weird conclusion to draw to me, I mean we already seen Gen 6 Pokemon before that in the Direct anyway...which makes your conclusion unlikely. We saw: Fennekin, Gogoat, and Xerneas, all Gen 6ers. Mine seems to be the more likely conclusion: He's showing off Final Smashes of the Pokemon(2 Confirmed FS, 1 in the air, 66% chance I'm correct, 33% chance you are)

Just because they used their final smashes doesent mean Lucario used his its a simple conclusion if you think about it, its gen 6 representation if you want it to be or all final smashes if you want it to be both of those outcomes are highly likely hell maybe both actually happened.

"Bound by aura buffs and debuffs." Huh? Debuffs? He has none. His aura strength is not a bond, it is a strength. He never "gets weaker", only an increase in power by his aura. When he dies, he restarts, just like any other character. In no way does his aura mechanic limit his power, or ME, at all. You are still assuming his ME onlymakes him get max aura. There is plentiful room for more features, you admitted it yourself earlier:

Actually it is possible for it to have different capabilities but ounce again why didn't sakurai say that?
So you're contradicting yourself actually, therefore this paragraph here is hard to take seriously. You should clarify.

Actually your wrong on that one Lucario definitely has debuffs if he's in the lead then he gets weaker and vice versa. Yes I did contradict myself but it was mainly to make a point that it could be anything else other than it being a FS, In fact Mega Lucario may be one of those secrete move sakurai was talking about its kinda possible.

How does it seem underpowered when you have no idea what it's totality is? You only know "it gives him max aura." That's it. Like we both said, there is plenty of room for additional power. If I use your logic though, why can't I assume Charizard's ME only improves his flight? It's all that's been shown so far right? So should I therefore conclude it's the only thing it improves on? Of course not, and you shouldn't either.

I assume its under powered based on the information I have on it, I want to believe there's more to it his vagueness makes me think there is but ounce again why would he leave that out when explaining it unless it was something more than that it just seems to weird to me, so untill there is more info saying anything different I can't really change assumption that this possible FS will be under powered.

It seems your biggest argument is that Mega charizard is a FS and was shown with Mega Lucario and it would weird if it wasnt which is a valid point if they were actually similar situations, apparently charizard gets dramatic effect by having a darkend backround for his FS but Lucario doesn't? tTey are both powerful transformations of the same caliber yet Lucario doesent get gets a visual effect to emphasize his power. Charizard's ME is called a FS in a POTD but Lucario's Mysteriously the only one doesent have the move everyone assumes is a FS called a FS in the information Direct. That being said Its not impossible for it to be a FS it won't bother if it is either but untill we get information on Lucario hinting at it being a FS or it being announced as one my theories will stay the same and just to be clear I'm not trying to force my opinion on you if it seems that way I just want to show that another option is very possible.

 

[Gimj]

I still think that clip is too short to tell.

Also, put a conch shell to your ear, you only hear the "sea"

Sorry, but it is not a matter of opinion. It's observable. There is sufficient footage of it to show that the aura decreases in intensity, and does not increase, as we would expect if it triggered a ME. Watch it again. You also have not provided evidence for your claim, that "Lucario's moveset is involved in triggering his ME."

Still don't see how the insult applies by the way, but I guess you get points for originality.

@ Gimj

The best evidence was the fact it is under powered and sakurai never said it was a FS while everyone else who showed a FS It was stated as a such while Lucarios mega evolution wasn't, Not to mention Lucarios Hud display isn't finished either which could mean he is still applying the Gauge I was speculating, Overall there are little things pointing to it not being a FS you don't have to believe them but they are valid points. If you can't see how dark the background is then compare the it with another picture of Skyloft it is noticably darker considering the stage doesent darken on its own at all.

Now I see where your major justification comes from, you're comparing Lucario's overview with the other veterans' overview. I understand now why you think Lucario's is "suspiciously" lacking. However, I am still convinced that that isn't the correct assessment. Let's compare, however, since you seem to justify your theory by doing so. Let's compare Lucario and Little Mac's "transformations." What information did we get on Giga Mac exactly? Nothing. All he said was "Is this really the same guy?" Why not tell us if it's timed or not? Does it even have any special attributes? We have no idea. And Sakurai has done this twice, once with the Little Mac reveal, and again in the Direct. Is this FS underpowered, since he didn't show us anything special about it? Why is he not showing us exactly how Giga Mac works? Simple, because he can. This withholding of information shouldn't be grounds to assume that Giga Mac has some "unique mechanic", neither should you assume anything about Mega Lucario's abilities. That's what I'm getting at. What about Zelda's Side-B? It's been confirmed to be different, but why didn't Sakurai explain it in her overview? It's changed quite drastically. So since he didn't review it, should I just assume something's up? No. Wouldn't you agree these assumptions are presumptuous?

I think this is a main point that you need to see, namely, that you are assuming his ME is underpowered. You don't know whether it's a FS or a moveset-based mechanic so you assume it's a moveset mechanic because we don't have all the information about Lucario's ME. Okay. Now, why are you saying it's underpowered? Because we don't have all the information about Lucario's ME. It is circular in nature. You make end-all-be-all statements like this without knowing the entirety of it. On one hand who say you don't know if it's a FS or moveset ME because of the lack of info, and on the other hand you say you do know something based on the lack of info, namely, that it is underpowered. Do you see the contradiction there?

*By the way I did compare the pictures, and it does seem you are right. It does look darker. I thought this was the case beforehand, it's just this new picture threw me off for some reason. So yes, Charizard's Mega Evolution very likely causes the to be stage darker, based on the evidence.

That's completely different Mega charizard was shown in a quick clip with no information Mega Lucario was shown in a segment that was supposed to explain the mechanics of it all we got was that it keeps you at full aura obviously holding back info probably for a good reason.

Well we could get straight to the point, why didn't he coordinate the Direct in such a way that would reveal its attributes? He could have shown more footage of it.

Like I said before if it was so powerful why say only one thing about it in the information direct while Zelda had her phantom move explained in depth, everyone else had there moves explained had them explained fully except for Lucario which leads me to believe he's hiding something more than just a FS which he could've just called it in the first place.

This is where you go wrong, not everyone had their moves explained in depth. See Giga Mac. Understand that just because Sakurai chooses not to show everything and anything about a move does not mean we have grounds to assume something is fishy.

If the one non FS coincides with the other two then yes they would show it, I mean think about it what if Lucario still has Aura storm as a FS why would they show that when mega Lucario would show off his gen 6 representation like greninja and charizard are doing? Its not imagination its just you don't see it that way and that's fine.

Well I can think of plenty of reasons. I gave you a reason before, that they already showed Gen 6 previously in the direct(Fennekin, Gogoat, Xerneas), not to mention that Mega Lucario was already shown. Also, Sakurai isn't obligated to have Gen 6 representation in a Smash direct. Now that I think about it, if you're right, why didn't they show Mega Lucario performing Aura Storm? On your theory this is entirely possible, and would do a good job of hinting at a uniqueness to the ME itself. Not to mention it would fit in much better, it's a FS, Gen 6, subtle hint and epic hype move all packed into one second of footage.

Charizard was'nt in a veteran overview where sakurai was supposed to explain new mechanics moves buffs and debuffs and such which makes this a awkward comparison, I'm not assuming it is a new mechanic just like I'm not assuming its a FS just because its timed or charizard has one either, I just think he is holding back information on something more than just a FS.

As I've shown with Giga Mac and Zelda's Side-B, veteran overview /= full analysis. It is still very possible to coordinate Charizard's FS to be explained even without an overview. And this thinking is precisely what I'm criticizing, the fact that you think there's something more simply because Sakurai didn't explain it all. I don't think you are justified in thinking that way. I think, you should simply see it as a "stay tuned" or a "sample", not just automatically think "Sakurai didn't explain it all, therefore a new mechanic." Something more, by the way, has to be a new mechanic. There is no room in his moveset for a transformation if it's not a FS.

Just because they used their final smashes doesent mean Lucario used his its a simple conclusion if you think about it, its gen 6 representation if you want it to be or all final smashes if you want it to be both of those outcomes are highly likely hell maybe both actually happened.

Gen 6 representation seems like such a trivial motivation, and just doesn't seem accurate. Why is Gen 6 representation necessary in a Smash Bros direct? There is no obligation to represent every franchise, the goal is to reveal new information. That is what Directs are about. Guess what? Gen 6 representation isn't new information, but three new Final Smashes are. So I don't think it's a matter of "see what you want to see" I think we have good grounds for denying your "interpretation" of that. You really think they sat down and were like "Okay, put Charizard's FS, Greninja's FS...but not Lucario's FS, just put in his new ME mechanic, even though we already showed it earlier."

Actually your wrong on that one Lucario definitely has debuffs if he's in the lead then he gets weaker and vice versa. Yes I did contradict myself but it was mainly to make a point that it could be anything else other than it being a FS, In fact Mega Lucario may be one of those secrete move sakurai was talking about its kinda possible.

No, he does not "get weaker" he is simply not at full potential. There is a difference, "getting weaker" implies his power decreases, which it does not. At best, you could say when he's in the lead he's not at full potential. Come to think about it, he actually can be at maximum power while he's in the lead. Example: High percentage, 2 stocks ahead of opponent. In the lead, maximum power. You have a pessimistic way of looking at it, see his aura mechanic as him simply being "abnormally strong in high percentages." And him being strong at high percentages does not mean he is "weak" at lower ones.

Since you admitted you contradicted yourself, then I need you to clarify. Do you agree that it's possible his ME has more capabilities than shown? If so, then that automatically renders your "underpowered" argument bankrupt. This is because those capabilities have the very real possibility to make him absurdly strong. It also serves as an admission that you don't know everything about the ME, hence you can't assert it is underpowered...since you don't know everything it can do.

I assume its under powered based on the information I have on it, I want to believe there's more to it his vagueness makes me think there is but ounce again why would he leave that out when explaining it unless it was something more than that it just seems to weird to me, so untill there is more info saying anything different I can't really change assumption that this possible FS will be under powered.

You have information on it? Like what? I think you mistake vagueness for innocent withholding of information. I'm trying to drive this point home, that just because he doesn't explain it in full detail, does not mean he has a special secret about said thing. Again, see Giga Mac. Also, didn't you say Lucario's HUD wasn't finished? What if the reason is as simple as that, the entire ME transformation process isn't finished?

It seems your biggest argument is that Mega charizard is a FS and was shown with Mega Lucario and it would weird if it wasnt which is a valid point if they were actually similar situations, apparently charizard gets dramatic effect by having a darkend backround for his FS but Lucario doesn't? tTey are both powerful transformations of the same caliber yet Lucario doesent get gets a visual effect to emphasize his power. Charizard's ME is called a FS in a POTD but Lucario's Mysteriously the only one doesent have the move everyone assumes is a FS called a FS in the information Direct. That being said Its not impossible for it to be a FS it won't bother if it is either but untill we get information on Lucario hinting at it being a FS or it being announced as one my theories will stay the same and just to be clear I'm not trying to force my opinion on you if it seems that way I just want to show that another option is very possible.

Just to note, Charizard's confirmation of his ME being a FS does not in anyway further the "mystery" of Lucario's ME. What I mean is that it is not evidence that Lucario's is not a FS, just like you say it is not evidence that Lucario's is a FS.

That's not my biggest argument, in my opinion, I have made quite a few arguments that were overlooked/still standing:

1. You assume that Sakurai will make the same ME animation for every FS in SSB4. He could very well do that, but that doesn't limit him to do the same exact animation/effects. Lucario used a move that didn't exist in Pokemon for crying out loud. What if there is the standard ME animation, then an additional effect based on who's ME it is? It could explain why Charizard's differs. Like normal ME animation + darkness for Charizard, and normal ME animation + aura explosion for Lucario. I don't see why this couldn't happen.

2. He's revealed something totally new to the Smash series, and not say anything about it. Off the top of my head, for example, Zelda's new Down B. We had no clue what it was all about, yet he revealed it in such a low-informational way. Also, I disagree that if it's timed it doesn't mean it's powerful. All timed transformations to exist in Smash Bros are very powerful(Super Sonic, Wario-Man, Giga Bowser, Landmasters) There is no exception to the rule, and it just makes sense when you think about it. Why have a weak-transformation be timed? It must not be that weak then, lol. It hasto be strong, because to limit the duration of it means if it had unlimited duration it would be too strong. I mean I think it's obvious that a timed transformation = very powerful.

• Giga Mac argument is linked with this:
  Let's compare Lucario and Little Mac's "transformations." What information did we get on Giga Mac exactly? Nothing. All he said was "Is this really the same guy?" Why not tell us if it's timed or not? Does it even have any special attributes? We have no idea. And Sakurai has done this twice, once with the Little Mac reveal, and again in the Direct. Is this FS underpowered, since he didn't show us anything special about it? Why is he not showing us exactly how Giga Mac works? Simple, because he can. This withholding of information shouldn't be grounds to assume that Giga Mac has some "unique mechanic", neither should you assume anything about Mega Lucario's abilities. That's what I'm getting at.

3. We've already seen Gen 6 Pokemon before that in the Direct anyway...which makes your conclusion unlikely. We saw: Fennekin, Gogoat, and Xerneas, all Gen 6ers. Mine seems to be the more likely conclusion: He's showing off Final Smashes of the Pokemon(2 Confirmed FS, 1 in the air, 66% chance I'm correct, 33% chance you are)

4. I'm trying to show you that you do not have all the information about Lucario's ME. It is a fact, because you have no idea what triggers his ME. So how can it seem underpowered when you have no idea what it's totality is? You only know "it gives him max aura." That's it. Like we both said, there is plenty of room for additional power. If I use your logic though, why can't I assume Charizard's ME only improves his flight? It's all that's been shown so far right? So should I therefore conclude it's the only thing it improves on? Of course not, and you shouldn't either. Until you know everything about the ME, then you can conclude or make an opinion on whether it is underpowered or not. Sakurai didn't clarify a lot of things, he didn't clarify if Mega Charizard X was a FS...but yet it was. He is simply withholding, or just not giving us every and any information about everything shown. On Monday he could reveal that Lucario's is a FS too just the same.

5. Mega Lucario having max aura power also, to me, doesn't seem to justify it not being a FS. First of all, if Lucario's FS was a ME, and he already was designed to have a rising aura mechanic, wouldn't it be common sense to make his FS always give him max aura? For all we know, that's just one feature behind a much more powerful FS. What if he has increased recovery? Faster running speed? Super-Armor? Jumps higher? All are still possible. And not labeling it a FS doesn't necessarily mean it's not one either. Sakurai could've wanted to focus on the fact it's a Mega Evolution, something the fans wanted, or was simply overlooked labeling it as a Final Smash in the video editing.

6. A sufficiently-damaged Lucario can achieve the exact same power as a Mega Lucario, if Mega Lucario is just as stated, a max aura boost(and therefore not a FS). Mega Lucario MUST have other unannounced powers that make it worthy of a ME...which would also make it worthy of a FS. Why would a sufficiently-damaged Lucario's power be equal to a Mega Lucario? What makes Mega Lucario greater?
In your owns words:

Lucario just gets Max aura something he can do already without a smashball.

7. What about his FS then, if his ME is within his moveset? If he gets the Smash Ball while in ME, would his Aura Storm be more powerful? If so, it would be quite annoying to have to align the ME with a FS to make the most out of his FS. If not, then it's pretty stupid that a ME's FS is the exact same strength as normal Lucario's FS. Is this really a plausible design?

8. Taunts and B moves all achieve nothing regarding a ME. Nothing like this is remotely hinted at, at all. It can't even be assumed reliably is the epitome of imagination, plus we've seen his "powering-up" taunt not achieve anything. . Where is the room for this very specialized ME that Charizard couldn't have? This theory seems to cater to Lucario way too much, in a way that diminishes Charizard. Charizard gets a simple, expected FS ME, while Lucario gets a complex, specialized ME mechanic. It makes it seem that "all Mega Evolutions are not created equal", since Charizard's is on the highest level(FS), while Lucario's is on a low level(moveset).

9. Charizard having a FS ME while Lucario has a moveset-based ME just screams weird. Charizard's will have to be stronger than Lucario's since Charizard's is a FS and Lucario's isn't...Why do that? Okay say they are equal in power...why give Charizard an underwhelming FS? Lucario's ME would just weigh his down. This would also mean that Lucario's FS would be better than Charizard's if this were the case. They both have equally-powered MEs, Charizard's is his FS, Lucario's is within his moveset. This leaves room, obviously, for an increase in power with Lucario's FS. It would undoubtedly be stronger than Charizard's FS simply because it graduates their equally-powered ME, as a FS, since Lucario's ME is within his moveset. His moveset based ME just has to be weaker than his FS. This really just seems to awkward to be true, not to mention unnecessarily complex.

Sorry for the big wall of text, lol.

 

[Gune]

Sorry for the big wall of text, lol.

Now I see where your major justification comes from, you're comparing Lucario's overview with the other veterans' overview. I understand now why you think Lucario's is "suspiciously" lacking. However, I am still convinced that that isn't the correct assessment. Let's compare, however, since you seem to justify your theory by doing so. Let's compare Lucario and Little Mac's "transformations." What information did we get on Giga Mac exactly? Nothing. All he said was "Is this really the same guy?" Why not tell us if it's timed or not? Does it even have any special attributes? We have no idea. And Sakurai has done this twice, once with the Little Mac reveal, and again in the Direct. Is this FS underpowered, since he didn't show us anything special about it? Why is he not showing us exactly how Giga Mac works? Simple, because he can. This withholding of information shouldn't be grounds to assume that Giga Mac has some "unique mechanic", neither should you assume anything about Mega Lucario's abilities. That's what I'm getting at. What about Zelda's Side-B? It's been confirmed to be different, but why didn't Sakurai explain it in her overview? It's changed quite drastically. So since he didn't review it, should I just assume something's up? No. Wouldn't you agree these assumptions are presumptuous?

Both of those examples he explained them to the point we at least know what it is, Zeldas down B is actually somthing he explained deeply from how you can charge it to how you can block incoming attacks with it. Now Little macs FS is somewhat similar but sakurai still said how its activated and what it was, Lucarios didn't say what it was nor if it had anything else to do with it he just said one measly thing that was.

I think this is a main point that you need to see, namely, that you are assuming his ME is underpowered. You don't know whether it's a FS or a moveset-based mechanic so you assume it's a moveset mechanic because we don't have all the information about Lucario's ME. Okay. Now, why are you saying it's underpowered? Because we don't have all the information about Lucario's ME. It is circular in nature. You make end-all-be-all statements like this without knowing the entirety of it. On one hand who say youdon't know if it's a FS or moveset ME because of the lack of info, and on the other hand you say you do know something based on the lack of info, namely, that it is underpowered. Do you see the contradiction there?

I see the point your trying to make I've been acknowledging it since the beginning, Im just saying that so far this is looking to be one really under powered FS if it is indeed one, that's a justified assupmtion just like you assuming that he Is just with holding information on this being a FS.

*By the way I did compare the pictures, and it does seem you are right. It does look darker. I thought this was the case beforehand, it's just this new picture threw me off for some reason. So yes, Charizard's Mega Evolution very likely causes the to be stage darker, based on the evidence.

This is where you go wrong, not everyone had their moves explained in depth. See Giga Mac. Understand that just because Sakurai chooses not to show everything and anything about a move does not mean we have grounds to assume something is fishy.

Considering the man loves surprises and tries to keep his fans on their toes there is plenty of reason to believe that something is fishy, Zelda is a perfect example her new down B was shown before hand where people had thought it was a AT but come to find out it was her move, the same can be said with Lucario people think its a FS because everyone thought that Megas would be obligatory FS's but they can be applied in different ways, so for all we know it could be another mechanic that sakurai is with holding Info on.

Well I can think of plenty of reasons. I gave you a reason before, that they already showed Gen 6 previously in the direct(Fennekin, Gogoat, Xerneas), not to mention that Mega Lucario was already shown. Also, Sakurai isn't obligated to have Gen 6 representation in a Smash direct. Now that I think about it, if you're right, why didn't they show Mega Lucario performingAura Storm? On your theory this is entirely possible, and would do a good job of hinting at a uniqueness to the ME itself. Not to mention it would fit in much better, it's a FS, Gen 6, subtle hint and epic hype move all packed into one second of footage.

You keep bringing up that they showed some gen 6 pokemon I get that but big thing of gen 6 was the Megas hence why I believe it was gen 6 representation instead of FS's it wasn't obligatory but that doesent mean sakurai wouldn't do it, not to mention GF wants to promote Gen 6 a lot and them asking sakurai to show off the pokemon who are highly relevant and known in gen 6 in a trailer that features their newest forms from gen 6 isn't out of the question.

As I've shown with Giga Mac and Zelda's Side-B, veteran overview /= full analysis. It is still very possible to coordinate Charizard's FS to be explained even without an overview. And this thinking is precisely what I'm criticizing, the fact that you think there's something more simply because Sakurai didn't explain it all. I don't think you are justified in thinking that way. I think, you should simply see it as a "stay tuned" or a "sample", not just automatically think "Sakurai didn't explain it all, therefore a new mechanic." Something more, by the way, has to be a new mechanic. There is no room in his moveset for a transformation if it's not a FS.

Gigamac he said what it was and how its activated, Zeldas down B sakurai explained that fully, Lucario's Mega evolution said that he keeps Max aura and that was it, whether this is a "sample" or a "stay tuned" scenario I still have as much justification to think its a new mechanic or something more just like you believe its a FS. I'm not going to compare Lucarios and Chariards Megas anymore one wasn't talked about at all then suddenly revealed as a FS while the other was supposed to be talked about and barely gave any information on it, it didn't even labled it as a FS when other charecters moves were labled. There is room in his move set for transformation mechanic simultaneous button presses can be worked into this.

Gen 6 representation seems like such a trivial motivation, and just doesn't seem accurate. Why is Gen 6 representation necessary in a Smash Bros direct? There is no obligation to represent every franchise, the goal is to reveal new information. That is what Directs are about. Guess what? Gen 6 representation isn't new information, butthree new Final Smashes are. So I don't think it's a matter of "see what you want to see" I think we have good grounds for denying your "interpretation" of that. You really think they sat down and were like "Okay, put Charizard's FS, Greninja's FS...but not Lucario's FS, just put in his new ME mechanic, even though we already showed it earlier."

Its not trivial at all current generation representation is important to GF everyone knows this why wouldn't GF want a trailer showing off they biggest gen 6 representatives in a trailer together? Lucarios mega evolution being shown again doesent mean its a FS and it being with two other FS's doe sent mean anything either other charecters have no bearing on what the outcome of Lucario is.

No, he does not "get weaker" he is simply not at full potential. There is a difference, "getting weaker" implies his power decreases, which it does not. At best, you could say when he's in the lead he's not at full potential. Come to think about it, he actually can be at maximum power while he's in the lead. Example: High percentage, 2 stocks ahead of opponent. In the lead, maximum power. You have a pessimistic way of looking at it, see his aura mechanic as him simply being "abnormally strong in high percentages." And him being strong at high percentages does not mean he is "weak" at lower ones.

Lucarios attack power is severely cut if he is in the lead you can easily tell this by his AS when he's at Aura cap which is 167% the AS gets considerably smaller.

Since you admitted you contradicted yourself, then I need you to clarify. Do you agree that it's possible his ME has more capabilities than shown? If so, then that automatically renders your "underpowered" argument bankrupt. This is because those capabilities have the very real possibility to make him absurdly strong. It also serves as an admission that you don't know everything about the ME, hence you can't assert it is underpowered...since you don't know everything it can do.

The way I was putting that was to point out that I do see both possibillties as likely, my assumption of Lucarios ME being under powered if it is a FS won't change untill I get more info on it and we won't be getting any info till the game comes out.

You have information on it? Like what? I think you mistake vagueness for innocent withholding of information. I'm trying to drive this point home, that just because he doesn't explain it in full detail, does not mean he has a special secret about said thing. Again, see Giga Mac. Also, didn't you say Lucario's HUD wasn't finished? What if the reason is as simple as that, the entire ME transformation process isn't finished?

Yes I have information on it the same information that you have I don't see why you have such a problem with me calling it under powered with the information that was given it sure its not a lot of info but what info is there to say it isn't under powered? None so un till more info is brought up I can't really change my assumption based on the evidence I have.


Just to note, Charizard's confirmation of his ME being a FS does not in anyway further the "mystery" of Lucario's ME. What I mean is that it is not evidence that Lucario's is not a FS, just like you say it is not evidence that Lucario's is a FS.

That's exactly what I have been getting at this whole time.

That's not my biggest argument, in my opinion, I have made quite a few arguments that were overlooked/still standing:

1. You assume that Sakurai will make the same ME animation for every FS in SSB4. He could very well do that, but that doesn't limit him to do the same exact animation/effects. Lucario used a move that didn't exist in Pokemon for crying out loud. What if there is the standard ME animation, then an additional effect based on who's ME it is? It could explain why Charizard's differs. Like normal ME animation + darkness for Charizard, and normal ME animation + aura explosion for Lucario. I don't see why this couldn't happen.

This could happen if Mega Lucario turns out to be a FS its meh status but it could happen.

2. He's revealed something totally new to the Smash series, and not say anything about it. Off the top of my head, for example, Zelda's new Down B. We had no clue what it was all about, yet he revealed it in such a low-informational way. Also, I disagree that if it's timed it doesn't mean it's powerful. All timed transformations to exist in Smash Bros are very powerful(Super Sonic, Wario-Man, Giga Bowser, Landmasters) There is no exception to the rule, and it just makes sense when you think about it. Why have a weak-transformation be timed? It must not be that weak then, lol. It hasto be strong, because to limit the duration of it means if it had unlimited duration it would be too strong. I mean I think it's obvious that a timed transformation = very powerful.

All timed transformations are powerful except lucarios at the moment.

• Giga Mac argument is linked with this:
  Let's compare Lucario and Little Mac's "transformations." What information did we get on Giga Mac exactly? Nothing. All he said was "Is this really the same guy?" Why not tell us if it's timed or not? Does it even have any special attributes? We have no idea. And Sakurai has done this twice, once with the Little Mac reveal, and again in the Direct. Is this FS underpowered, since he didn't show us anything special about it? Why is he not showing us exactly how Giga Mac works? Simple, because he can. This withholding of information shouldn't be grounds to assume that Giga Mac has some "unique mechanic", neither should you assume anything about Mega Lucario's abilities. That's what I'm getting at.

Sakurai said that gigamac was an FS sakurai didn't say that mega Lucario is an FS, everybody who had their moves examined had those moves lab led as to what they were Lucario just had his lab led as mega evolution so no while the situations may seem similar they aren't comparable because you know what gigamac is, but you don't know what mega Lucario is.

3. We've already seen Gen 6 Pokemon before that in the Direct anyway...which makes your conclusion unlikely. We saw: Fennekin, Gogoat, and Xerneas, all Gen 6ers. Mine seems to be the more likely conclusion: He's showing off Final Smashes of the Pokemon(2 Confirmed FS, 1 in the air, 66% chance I'm correct, 33% chance you are)

Gen 6 is our current gen just because we have seen some current gen pokemon in pokeballs does not negate the fact that GF wants sakurai to promote gen 6 and greninjas trailer is a easy way to get 2of the mega evolution mascots and the most popular 6th gen pokemon easy screen time for the fans also where did you get those calcs from?

4. I'm trying to show you that you do not have all the information about Lucario's ME. It is a fact, because you have no idea what triggers his ME. So how can it seem underpowered when you have no idea what it's totality is? You only know "it gives him max aura." That's it. Like we both said, there is plenty of room for additional power. If I use your logic though, why can't I assume Charizard's ME only improves his flight? It's all that's been shown so far right? So should I therefore conclude it's the only thing it improves on? Of course not, and you shouldn't either. Until you know everything about the ME, then you can conclude or make an opinion on whether it is underpowered or not. Sakurai didn't clarify a lot of things, he didn't clarify if Mega Charizard X was a FS...but yet it was. He is simply withholding, or just not giving us every and any information about everything shown. On Monday he could reveal that Lucario's is a FS too just the same.

I know I don't have all the information I've said that plenty times of before, I'm not saying its completely underpowered and will stay that way I'm just expressing so far his presentation of lucario's ME makes it look like a crap FS.

5. Mega Lucario having max aura power also, to me, doesn't seem to justify it not being a FS. First of all, if Lucario's FS was a ME, and he already was designed to have a rising aura mechanic, wouldn't it be common sense to make his FS always give him max aura? For all we know, that's just one feature behind a much more powerful FS. What if he has increased recovery? Faster running speed? Super-Armor? Jumps higher? All are still possible. And not labeling it a FS doesn't necessarily mean it's not one either. Sakurai could've wanted to focus on the fact it's a Mega Evolution, something the fans wanted, or was simply overlooked labeling it as a Final Smash in the video editing.

Lucarios last FS also coincided with his aura doing more or less damage if he had high aura buff or debuff, there can be more to it it could be a FS or a mechanic but just because there can be more to it FS wise doesent mean his ME being a new mechanic is any less likely or vice versa. The didn't say it was a FS for a reason if it was a FS sakurai could have easily said that it was he also could have easily put "Final Smash:" in front of Mega Evolution like everyone else had for there FS's.

6. A sufficiently-damaged Lucario can achieve the exact same power as a Mega Lucario, if Mega Lucario is just as stated, a max aura boost(and therefore not a FS). Mega Lucario MUST have other unannounced powers that make it worthy of a ME...which would also make it worthy of a FS. Why would a sufficiently-damaged Lucario's power be equal to a Mega Lucario? What makes Mega Lucario greater?
In your owns words:
Lucario just gets Max aura something he can do already without a smashball.

Yes mega Lucario is most definitely hiding something whether or not that's more buffs to make it FS worthy or the reveal of it being some new kind of mechanic both are likely outcomes so you can't exactly use this as a point in your argument since it easily supports both our sides of the discussion.

7. What about his FS then, if his ME is within his moveset? If he gets the Smash Ball while in ME, would his Aura Storm be more powerful? If so, it would be quite annoying to have to align the ME with a FS to make the most out of his FS. If not, then it's pretty stupid that a ME's FS is the exact same strength as normal Lucario's FS. Is this really a plausible design?

It actually is a pluasible design when sakurai was explaining WFT he showed a move she does to raise the attack power of another move which was deep breath and sun stance I believe getting deep breath just right would make sun stance a very good kill move as seen in the direct. The same thing can be done with Aura storm and lucarios ME since his aura is getting a buff ME+AS would completely destroy someone who got caught in it of course this is if Lucario still has aura storm as a FS.

8. Taunts and B moves all achieve nothing regarding a ME. Nothing like this is remotely hinted at, at all. It can't even be assumed reliably is the epitome of imagination, plus we've seen his "powering-up" taunt not achieve anything. . Where is the room for this very specialized ME that Charizard couldn't have? This theory seems to cater to Lucario way too much, in a way that diminishes Charizard. Charizard gets a simple, expected FS ME, while Lucario gets a complex, specialized ME mechanic. It makes it seem that "all Mega Evolutions are not created equal", since Charizard's is on the highest level(FS), while Lucario's is on a low level(moveset).

Simultaneous button pressing like how Lucario uses SB in project M he could press A+B and use the meter for his Mega evolution and cancel it by pressing A+B again, If they are going to be equal why not equal in power or/and aesthetics? There is other ways to make them equal other than move status.

9. Charizard having a FS ME while Lucario has a moveset-based ME just screams weird. Charizard's will have to be stronger than Lucario's since Charizard's is a FS and Lucario's isn't...Why do that? Okay say they are equal in power...why give Charizard an underwhelming FS? Lucario's ME would just weigh his down. This would also mean that Lucario's FS would be better than Charizard's if this were the case. They both have equally-powered MEs, Charizard's is his FS, Lucario's is within his moveset. This leaves room, obviously, for an increase in power with Lucario's FS. It would undoubtedly be stronger than Charizard's FS simply because it graduates their equally-powered ME, as a FS, since Lucario's ME is within his moveset. His moveset based ME just has to be weaker than his FS. This really just seems to awkward to be true, not to mention unnecessarily complex.

There is lots of things that scream weird in smash, ness and Lucas using moves that they never use in game, all star fox charecters using a land master when fox is the only one who cannonically has one, Lucario accessing his ME as a power up mechanic is no weirder than those. Your making this very complicated when it doesent need to be Yes charizards FS is going to be stronger than Lucarios ME if its a power up mechanic the FS's aren't going to be equal, its not like in the games ME's are stronger/better than other's so charizards ME doesent have to match in power with Lucarios ME especially if Lucarios isn't a FS that's just ridiculous.

Sorry for the delayed reply was moving to California and totally forgot about this.

 

[Shiliski]

I don't like the idea that it only works 1 time per match. Think of what that would do for 99 stock matches? It'd be completely useless. 99 is an extreme case I admit, but even at a 10 stock match or a 20 stock match it'd be a hindrance. Meanwhile in a 1-3 stock match it'd be a bit too much, because you'd just use it all the time.

I'm going to step back from speculation based upon "What Sakurai did or did not say" and lean more upon "what actually makes sense."

A major transformation based upon a taunt makes almost no sense, especially if's on-demand. Why would anyone NOT just start the match with using that taunt? It would be OP, no questions asked. You aren't going to fix that with some kind of limit like "once per match" either, you'll just make it harder to balance. It needs to be something that's going to work just as well in a 1 stock match as it will in a 99 stock match, and just as well in a 1 minute match as it will in a 99 minute match. Sakurai seems to have considered that with every single other aspect of the game, so I don't see why he'd suddenly overlook it for one guy's alleged supertaunt which probably doesn't exist.

A major transformation based upon an FS makes a ton of sense, and is well in line with other FSs like Super Sonic. However, this has the problem of being underwhelming if Lucario is already at max Aura. However, there's something that people aren't considering: What if 'Max Aura' isn't achievable through anything but FS? What if Lucario tops out at like... 200% while Mega Lucario is something like 250%? That's just a guess on my part, but it's a guess that doesn't irk me as much as the 'once per match limit' does.

Meanwhile, Lucario's current FS in Brawl is pretty weak, so even this, without my guessed modification, would be a step up. It wouldn't shock me at all if Sakurai was looking to replace that FS. Also, in favor of the consistency argument, I should point out that many characters in Brawl have incredibly similar Landmasters.. er, I mean Final Smashes. Granted, yes, those are clone characters while Lucario and Charizard are not clones of each other, but there is precedent for assuming that Lucario's Mega is an FS just because Charizard's is. There's also precedent for assuming that Lucario's mega is a unique mechanic, because other characters have unique mechanics.


Also, as a side note, you don't get to make a point by saying "Prove me wrong". Not because you can't prove a negative (you can, in certain cases) but because if you make a claim then the burden is on you to prove that claim. Otherwise people are free to dismiss it completely as a claim with no proof.

 

[Gimj]

Sorry for the delayed reply was moving to California and totally forgot about this.

Np, I have been away myself.

Both of those examples he explained them to the point we at least know what it is, Zeldas down B is actually somthing he explained deeply from how you can charge it to how you can block incoming attacks with it. Now Little macs FS is somewhat similar but sakurai still said how its activated and what it was, Lucarios didn't say what it was nor if it had anything else to do with it he just said one measly thing that was.

Misunderstanding on your part, not talking about Down-B, talking about Side-B. It's been changed by a substantial amount but no coverage on it in the direct. Not sure what "had anything else to do with it" means, but my point still stands as it seems to me.
- All that was shown for Giga Mac: It's Little Mac's FS. No further explanation of what it does at all.
- All that was shown for Lucario ME: It gives him max aura. No further explanation of how it's activated at all.

-> Since you don't know what Giga Mac does, should you just assume he has a new mechanic?

-> Since you don't know how Lucario's ME activates, should you just assume he has a new mechanic?

Isn't it clear how unjustified your assumption is?
I see the point your trying to make I've been acknowledging it since the beginning, Im just saying that so far this is looking to be one really under powered FS if it is indeed one, that's a justified assupmtion just like you assuming that he Is just with holding information on this being a FS.

No dude, no. It's really not the same. My assumption is different because we know he's withholding information, because we both don't even know how it is activated! Right? So there is definitely a degree of information he is withholding. It's a fact. So my assumption therefore is justified, whereas yours is not. You seem to think that because Sakurai didn't explain everything about his ME, therefore it is not a FS or is an underpowered one.
It's like me telling you(as if you had no prior knowledge) "Bowser's FS is Giga Bowser! Sakurai says he grows bigger and deals more damage!"

Then you say "Wow, what an underpowered FS. He will just be a bigger target and will be constantly hit."

Little would you know, that Giga Bowser has superarmor constantly and therefore cannot be stopped.

Considering the man loves surprises and tries to keep his fans on their toes there is plenty of reason to believe that something is fishy, Zelda is a perfect example her new down B was shown before hand where people had thought it was a AT but come to find out it was her move, the same can be said with Lucario people think its a FS because everyone thought that Megas would be obligatory FS's but they can be applied in different ways, so for all we know it could be another mechanic that sakurai is with holding Info on.

I would agree if it was the case that Lucario's ME was teased, but it wasn't. Right when he revealed it for the first time, he gave us some info on it. It wasn't teased like Zela's down-B was, so that's not a good example/comparison at all.

You keep bringing up that they showed some gen 6 pokemon I get that but big thing of gen 6 was the Megas hence why I believe it was gen 6 representation instead of FS's it wasn't obligatory but that doesent mean sakurai wouldn't do it, not to mention GF wants to promote Gen 6 a lot and them asking sakurai to show off the pokemon who are highly relevant and known in gen 6 in a trailer that features their newest forms from gen 6 isn't out of the question.

Sakurai showed Mega Lucario already earlier on in the Direct. It obviously isn't out of the question, but it is implausible because Gen 6 had plenty of representation beforehand in the Direct. He isn't obligated to conform to GameFreak with Directs. He shows what he feels is appropriate. More often than not, Directs help promote other games because...it's Smash Bros. If there was nothing shown about gen 6 previously in the direct, I would be more inclined to agree. But the idea of "okay showing gen 6 pkmn and Mega Lucario isn't enough, we want more gen 6 representation at the end!" Also, you make up the idea of Sakurai needing to represent Gen 6 Pokemon in a Direct. Direct's promote regardless, so your"representation" theory just seems like a way to avoid the obvious. Two are FSes, and one we don't know. Isn't it more likely the third is also the same, since the majority of moves were a Final Smash? It's really just that simple.

Gigamac he said what it was and how its activated, Zeldas down B sakurai explained that fully, Lucario's Mega evolution said that he keeps Max aura and that was it, whether this is a "sample" or a "stay tuned" scenario I still have as much justification to think its a new mechanic or something more just like you believe its a FS. I'm not going to compare Lucarios and Chariards Megas anymore one wasn't talked about at all then suddenly revealed as a FS while the other was supposed to be talked about and barely gave any information on it, it didn't even labled it as a FS when other charecters moves were labled. There is room in his move set for transformation mechanic simultaneous button presses can be worked into this.

Again, you confuse her Down-B with her Side-B. My point was Sakurai didn't explain Zelda's new Side-B in the Direct at all. And don't portray it like he explained Giga Mac, please, because he didn't. He didn't explain "what it was" he just explained how it was activated. That's it. We have NO idea what Giga Mac does, or how he works. Simultaneous button presses? No character ever used that combination of buttons, and therefore does not exist in Smash as of now.

Its not trivial at all current generation representation is important to GF everyone knows this why wouldn't GF want a trailer showing off they biggest gen 6 representatives in a trailer together? Lucarios mega evolution being shown again doesent mean its a FS and it being with two other FS's doe sent mean anything either other charecters have no bearing on what the outcome of Lucario is.

You are looking at it through "outside Smash/I dont want a ME as a FS" lens. I am looking at it through a Smash Bros lens. I actually think ML being shown with two other FSes after he was shown before DOES mean something. Out of the three things shown, two are FSes. You are taking a guess that it is based on "Gen 6 reps." I am making a evidence based deduction that it is based on FSes...Since two of them are confirmed to be FSes.

Lucarios attack power is severely cut if he is in the lead you can easily tell this by his AS when he's at Aura cap which is 167% the AS gets considerably smaller.

No, he can be at full-power and in the lead. Example: 2 stocks ahead of opponent, 167% damage.

The way I was putting that was to point out that I do see both possibillties as likely, my assumption of Lucarios ME being under powered if it is a FS won't change untill I get more info on it and we won't be getting any info till the game comes out.

Well at least you admit that you are just assuming it simply because you want to. This is my point, you are assuming, I am judging based on available evidence.

Yes I have information on it the same information that you have I don't see why you have such a problem with me calling it under powered with the information that was given it sure its not a lot of info but what info is there to say it isn't under powered? None so un till more info is brought up I can't really change my assumption based on the evidence I have.

I have a problem because you just feel like assuming it's underpowered when you have no idea what information is in store. Why don't you call Giga Mac underpowered? His mechanics have been avoided twice. No, you must not assume it is underpowered. You literally admitted earlier that there is room for possible additions to the ME's power that were not told. If that is possible, then that contradicts your assumption of it being underpowered. What you do:

"I don't know everything it does, so I'm just going to pretend there is no more information on ML and say it is underpowered. Sakurai said Lucario's ME gives him max aura, and that means that's all it does. It is underpowered."

That's what I'm getting, and that's my problem. It's illogical and way too presumptious.

Sakurai said that gigamac was an FS sakurai didn't say that mega Lucario is an FS, everybody who had their moves examined had those moves lab led as to what they were Lucario just had his lab led as mega evolution so no while the situations may seem similar they aren't comparable because you know what gigamac is, but you don't know what mega Lucario is.'

They are comparable, just not identical. We know how Giga Mac is activated, but we don't know what he does at all. We don't know how Mega Lucario is activated, but we know something it does. My point is that just because Sakurai didn't have the time to go into major detail about everything, it doesn't mean there is a special secret mechanic. It is a little strange that it wasn't labeled as a FS, but there are possible reasons for it. Maybe focus on the fact it is a Mega Evolution? Forgot to add Final Smash on the edit? Who knows.

Gen 6 is our current gen just because we have seen some current gen pokemon in pokeballs does not negate the fact that GF wants sakurai to promote gen 6 and greninjas trailer is a easy way to get 2of the mega evolution mascots and the most popular 6th gen pokemon easy screen time for the fans also where did you get those calcs from?

Greninja FS, Charizard FS, Lucario ME.2 FSes, 1 unknown. 100/3 = 33.3333%
2 FS = 66.6666%
1 unknown = 33.3333%

66.666% More plausible on my view that they are FSes. Yours is 33.333%.

I know I don't have all the information I've said that plenty times of before, I'm not saying its completely underpowered and will stay that way I'm just expressing so far his presentation of lucario's ME makes it look like a crap FS.

I just get weirded out by that because Sakurai shows you a feature of his ME and you automatically assume it is the only feature possible...even though you admit it is possible that there is more to it. So I'm kind of confused. But I would agree that if it is all that the ME did, then it would be underpowered. But there is no evidence of that.

Lucarios last FS also coincided with his aura doing more or less damage if he had high aura buff or debuff, there can be more to it it could be a FS or a mechanic but just because there can be more to it FS wise doesent mean his ME being a new mechanic is any less likely or vice versa. The didn't say it was a FS for a reason if it was a FS sakurai could have easily said that it was he also could have easily put "Final Smash:" in front of Mega Evolution like everyone else had for there FS's.

See, you recognize there can be more to it, but yet assume it is underpowered. I don't get how you can think that way.

Yes mega Lucario is most definitely hiding something whether or not that's more buffs to make it FS worthy or the reveal of it being some new kind of mechanic both are likely outcomes so you can't exactly use this as a point in your argument since it easily supports both our sides of the discussion.

Again, you admit it. But you are wrong that it supports the "reveal of it being a new mechanic" for one reason. The reason is that argument is based only on the power of the ME. Notice I said "Mega Lucario must have other unannounced POWERS that make it worthy of an ME." My point is that the ML needs to be stronger than normal Lucario, so it can almost be guarenteed that Sakurai has other power enhancements for ML. Or else, ML and regular Lucario could achieve the same strength. This strongly points to it being a FS because of the power graduation it must need. If it was moveset based, then it couldn't be too powerful or else it would be OP.

It actually is a pluasible design when sakurai was explaining WFT he showed a move she does to raise the attack power of another move which was deep breath and sun stance I believe getting deep breath just right would make sun stance a very good kill move as seen in the direct. The same thing can be done with Aura storm and lucarios ME since his aura is getting a buff ME+AS would completely destroy someone who got caught in it of course this is if Lucario still has aura storm as a FS.

Actually, Sakurai confirmed that WFT is the only one in the game who can do that. This also strongly points away from your theory of a moveset based ML. You also miss the point, it is about how awkward and unfufilling it would be to have that design. Most Lucario players would find themselves stuck using the weaker Aura Storm since they used their ME already, or they can't line them up when the want since Smash Ball is random. it is just dumb to make a weak version of a FS and a strong version. Again, WFT is the only character who can do this. That might be a nail in the coffin for your theory actually.

Simultaneous button pressing like how Lucario uses SB in project M he could press A+B and use the meter for his Mega evolution and cancel it by pressing A+B again, If they are going to be equal why not equal in power or/and aesthetics? There is other ways to make them equal other than move status.
A+B is never used in Smash Bros. It's not just "status" it's a substatial power level. A FS will always be the strongest move a character has, that is the whole point. And a moveset ME vs a FS ME = FS ME is the stronger one. Do you see why it would be weird to have Mega Charizard X be stronger? It would make them discriminate their ME's for no good reason.

There is lots of things that scream weird in smash, ness and Lucas using moves that they never use in game, all star fox charecters using a land master when fox is the only one who cannonically has one, Lucario accessing his ME as a power up mechanic is no weirder than those. Your making this very complicated when it doesent need to be Yes charizards FS is going to be stronger than Lucarios ME if its a power up mechanic the FS's aren't going to be equal, its not like in the games ME's are stronger/better than other's so charizards ME doesent have to match in power with Lucarios ME especially if Lucarios isn't a FS that's just ridiculous.

That's not the way I was using weird. I mean it like "unattractive." But don't you think what you just said is a little unfair to Lucario? They would have to make his ME weaker than Charizard. Lucario fans would probably be upset about that. It is much better to treat them equally and give them similar power but in different ways. I'm not making this complicated, I'm showing you how complicated your theory makes it. And I bet alot of pokemon fans would disagree with making all ME's match in power.

 

[Delzethin]

Can I throw my 2 cents in? Based on what we know, I think Mega Lucario is his FS...but it'll mirror the Pokemon games and last the entire rest of the stock.

Here's my reasoning for the last part. All we know is that in Mega form, Lucario's aura boost supposedly peaks immediately. While it's pretty powerful when you think about it--up to double damage is nothing to laugh at--it's nothing Lucario can't already get in certain situations. So they'd have to balance that somehow, right? And what better way to do that than by having the transformation last until Luc gets knocked out? It differs from other transformation FSes by being less powerful but lasting significantly longer, and it'd match up how Mega Evolution functions in the games. And it's still pretty balanced because the more damage Luc takes, the less of a buff it is as he gets closer to max aura anyway.

Presumably, Mega Charizard X works the same way (maybe his buff is some form of Tough Claws?), as would Mewtwo or Sceptile if they make it in some form.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Can I throw my 2 cents in? Based on what we know, I think Mega Lucario is his FS...but it'll mirror the Pokemon games and last the entire rest of the stock.

Here's my reasoning for the last part. All we know is that in Mega form, Lucario's aura boost supposedly peaks immediately. While it's pretty powerful when you think about it--up to double damage is nothing to laugh at--it's nothing Lucario can't already get in certain situations. So they'd have to balance that somehow, right? And what better way to do that than by having the transformation last until Luc gets knocked out? It differs from other transformation FSes by being less powerful but lasting significantly longer, and it'd match up how Mega Evolution functions in the games. And it's still pretty balanced because the more damage Luc takes, the less of a buff it is as he gets closer to max aura anyway.

Presumably, Mega Charizard X works the same way (maybe his buff is some form of Tough Claws?), as would Mewtwo or Sceptile if they make it in some form.

Hard to tell at the moment, but I think it's going to be a timed transformation final smash just like Wario-man, Super Sonic, the 3 Landmasters (do they really count as a transformation?), and Pikachu's Volt Tackle (however if it does last the entire stock, then what happens when they get the smash ball while in their Mega form?)

 

[Kami~]

Hard to tell at the moment, but I think it's going to be a timed transformation final smash just like Wario-man, Super Sonic, the 3 Landmasters (do they really count as a transformation?), and Pikachu's Volt Tackle (however if it does last the entire stock, then what happens when they get the smash ball while in their Mega form?)

Gotta agree with this. I seriously doubt they'd let lucario be at full aura (which is hella broken in brawl) for a whole stock. That'd be murder

 

[Gimj]

I already proved that ML is timed.

Hey guys, I think I just found something that has pretty big implications.

At 20:58 on the Direct, it is pretty much confirmed that Lucario's Mega Evolution is timed. You can notice this by carefully watching Lucario's model randomly start to blink rapidly, much like other Final Smash transformations( I recommend watching the tip of his "dreadlocks"). So it won't last until he dies. If I were to guess, I'd bet it was his Final Smash, simply because it was shown in close succession with Greninja's Final Smash and it behaves similar to other FS transformations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs&t=20m52s

Just something I noticed.

 

[Masonomace]

My response to the comment of MEvo being apart of his taunt charging:

Isn't it great? Goku Sean Schemmel is voicing Lucario so taunt power-up is definitely confirmed. And when Gokucario Lucario charges up his MEvo meter and breaks the limit he'll go even further beyond in FS form.

But being serious about it, It's still early to tell. Gimj pointing out the time-factor ticking of MLucario is a good indicator that it's FS. Lucario shouldn't be getting multiple FS's just because of his built-in AuraBoost% mechanic, rather Lucario could have an overload aura move to balance out any possible underwhelming MEvolution using SmashBall at your AuraBoost% peak. I'm gonna make up a scenario so humor my speculation:

Lucario heavily losing, rising to maximum AuraBoost% level and then MEvolving into MLucario overloading his peak. MLucario performs an extremely powerful attack neutralizing his aura back to maximum in MEvo (or just doing the powerful attack and reverting back to MLucario) until time's up (probably not much longer).

or​

Lucario stock-tanking and activates his FS, MLucario gets maximum AuraBoost% but doesn't have overloading aura so therefore stays as MLucario fighting until a set time's up.

Edit: It's just a theory thrown out there with no evidence ofc but to the comments of underwhelming potential from seeing little point of using MEvo at your Aura's peak, I say give MLucario something terrifyingly strong to emphasize his MEvo FS later in the match.

 

[emuluc]

Could the Mega Evolution work like it does in Pokémon X/Y? We will have a touch screen so maybe we could use a Mega Evolution once either a special meter fills or once per match. Then the Mega Evolution ends once you get K.O.'d.

you mean it will work like little mac's ko punch meter?

 

[praline]

Pretty sure Lucario just has to get the smash ball.

 

[Gune]

Honestly his mega evo could be a secret special move to replace his down B.

 

[praline]

Honestly his mega evo could be a secret special move to replace his down B.

All of his specials were shown though.

 

[Gune]

All of his specials were shown though.

All of his default specials were shown, Lucario still has 8 more specials we know nothing about.

 

[praline]

All of his default specials were shown, Lucario still has 8 more specials we know nothing about.

They're just gonna be alterations of the regular specials. Only Mii Fighters and Palutena have 12 unique specials.

 

[Masonomace]

Lucario still has 8 more specials we know nothing about.

Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg *Mind blown*

If Lucario can only have 4 default and Mii Fig--- nvm @ praline gots it covered. Mega Lucario could have the default specials change a tiny bit maybe?

Edit: Could be a Wario-man scenario and have a fresh new move-set but doubtful to think at first.

 

[Gune]

They're just gonna be alterations of the regular specials. Only Mii Fighters and Palutena have 12 unique specials.

We never know some alterations may be bigger than others aside from mii's and palutena.

 

[Gimj]

Honestly his mega evo could be a secret special move to replace his down B.

Now I know you don't believe he has a moveset-based ME based on evidence. You're emotionally attached to the idea, you just want it to be true lol. Really? A small, moveset-alteration-feature, will hide the iconic Mega Evolution transformation from his normal moveset? Aka, you will never see Mega Lucario online/normal battles? Not to mention all previous Down-B transformations got removed from Zelda and PKMN Trainer. Talk about wishful thinking, my goodness dude.

The likelihood of that statement being true is the same as them removing Mario from Smash.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

It will happen when he gets to his maximum aura. Calling it.

 

[Gune]

Now I know you don't believe he has a moveset-based ME based on evidence. You're emotionally attached to the idea, you just want it to be true lol. Really? A small, moveset-alteration-feature, will hide the iconic Mega Evolution transformation from his normal moveset? Aka, you will never see Mega Lucario online/normal battles? Not to mention all previous Down-B transformations got removed from Zelda and PKMN Trainer. Talk about wishful thinking, my goodness dude.

The likelihood of that statement being true is the same as them removing Mario from Smash.

To be perfectly honest I don't care whether it's move set transformation or a FS I just want it to be strong. Also this isn't a transformation its more so a power up unlike the example's you brought up, alternate move set changing has been removed this will have the same moveset thus isn't the same thing and could still be implemented. I don't see why having hypothesis with this is apparently "wishful thinking" there is a good chance this could happen and just to be clear I'll be happy either way.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Isn't it fairly obvious that its not a FS, its just max aura, he flashes, and bam he's mega, and it lasts until he's KOed?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Threads like this remind me that I wish Lucario was in the Demo :<

 

[Gimj]

Isn't it fairly obvious that its not a FS, its just max aura, he flashes, and bam he's mega, and it lasts until he's KOed?

You didn't read the thread. Again, I already proved his ME is timed, so please go read my earlier posts if you are curious. Also I gave arguments against a normal Lucario capable of achieving the same power as Mega Lucario(a model you seem to be proposing).

This also seems to reduce ML to a skin-change...I highly doubt that to be the case.

To be perfectly honest I don't care whether it's move set transformation or a FS I just want it to be strong. Also this isn't a transformation its more so a power up unlike the example's you brought up, alternate move set changing has been removed this will have the same moveset thus isn't the same thing and could still be implemented. I don't see why having hypothesis with this is apparently "wishful thinking" there is a good chance this could happen and just to be clear I'll be happy either way.

The fact you keep defending the notion to whatever end necessary is why it seems to be "wishful thinking." You don't seem unbiased, unlike me(a non Lucario player), because you can't seem to analyze your own theories critically. I have no motive, other than the fact that I think Mega Lucario deserves proper representation, like anything else.

You said it could be a modification of his down-b which turns him into a ML. The fact that that is so unlikely to happen is why I don't believe you are using logic...you are using emotions/desire. Now to my point, do you realize how backwards and silly it would be to not have Mega Lucario playable on the default/normal version of Lucario? Do you realize the outrage that would cause? The iconic, greatly-expected, hype-creating, Mega Lucario is shunned behind the confines of a customization option...meaning it is not a part of Lucario's base design. You know what that means? Lucario players will never feel the satisfaction of going online, and destroying randoms with the powerful Mega Evolution. Ever. Mega Lucario will only be usable with yourself and friends. This also brings me to Pokemon representation. A customized ME will forgo free advertisement in the "For Fun" population and be something you don't even know exists at first. Your theory makes Mega Evolutions a less-represented idea; it hides them from the general population. Even though earlier, you were trying to make a point about Pokemon representation in a Smash-Direct...Mega Lucario gets the function of a surprising add-on that you so happen to stumble on. The advertised and hyped ML is going to not only going to be bullied out of his normal moveset by another not-as-iconic FS, but will instantly confuse Lucario players when they grab their first Smash Ball and see no sign of ML after the match is over.

I think I could keep going here with more problems, but to think that it is possible ML will be a customization option is folly. It diminishes the anticipated ME.

 

[victinivcreate1]

@ Gimj

Flashing doesn't mean timed. Charged Aura Sphere.

 

[Masonomace]

Flashing doesn't mean timed. Charged Aura Sphere.

In Brawl FCAS held in did show flashing ticks true but in the Lucario direct trailer for his MEvo he was sitting there not charging Aura Sphere so now you lost me. And on this topic about replacing Down-B with MEvo through customizing specials, nope.

 

[Gimj]

@ Gimj

Flashing doesn't mean timed. Charged Aura Sphere.

Again, try to be more investigative before making a statement. It could turn out that statement is baseless(it is). The possibility of the flashing being caused by a fully-charged Aura Sphere is, without question, zero. Watch the video segment I linked please.

Hey guys, I think I just found something that has pretty big implications.

At 20:58 on the Direct, it is pretty much confirmed that Lucario's Mega Evolution is timed. You can notice this by carefully watching Lucario's model randomly start to blink rapidly, much like other Final Smash transformations( I recommend watching the tip of his "dreadlocks"). So it won't last until he dies. If I were to guess, I'd bet it was his Final Smash, simply because it was shown in close succession with Greninja's Final Smash and it behaves similar to other FS transformations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs&t=20m52s

Just something I noticed.

There, I pulled it up for you. Hopefully I don't have to argue this any further.

 

[Masonomace]

I'd comment more on this thread for it's purpose but...not much else to say
Gotta give props to @ Gimj for the 98% guarantee Mega Lucario is timed. The only question now: Is it Lucario's FS, or is it a hidden mechanic ability that ties with Lucario's AuraBoost% being the absolute maximum?
*Needs more Mega Lucario game-play to find out*

 

[Kami~]

Ok this has gone on far too long

Anyone who doesn't think it's a Final Smash is ****ing stupid, have a nice day ^ ___ ^;

 

[Bedoop]

PEOPLE! PEOPLE! CALM DOWN!
This is a Discussion!
Not an Argument!
Please!