Lucario Matchup: Zero Suit Samus!

[Timbers]

Hopefully not imposing, but I'll take my chances. This week over at the Lucario boards is Zero Suit Samus' chance to shine. =P! If you feel you can contribute to this matchup, then please do!


-What specific troubles do you have with Lucario as a Zamus player? Does Lucario shut down any of your game?


-What advantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-What disadvantages do you feel Lucario has against you?


-Is there any method or strategic goal you would use to win this match?


I would greatly appreciate it if players of the board would give their input on the matches, thanks!

 

[fkacyan]

Advantages:
- Lucario has range. Lots of range. And lingering hitboxes.
- Heavy character, hard to KO until high percents.
- Said high percents make him KO our light character far more easily, and to my knowledge, makes certain hitboxes larger (Might be wrong).
- Has priority over many moves.

I can't really think of many disadvantages at the moment. He's one of ZSS's hardest matchups.

 

[Kyriel]

His UP B can be gimped/punished pretty easily.

 

[Ilucamy]

It's about time we put ZSS on the Lucario boards. As a ZSS second, I can say that while Lucario does have his lingering and disjointed hitboxes, ZSS has her own as well. Her Up-B and U-Smash both outrange Lucario's dair making one of our best moves effectively useless. Her Side-B (her main killer) outranges our f-smash. On the other hand, her aerials, while very good, have nowhere near the range and priority that Lucario's have. She also lacks an effective downward aerial, making out uair quite useful. She is lightweight, so Lucario shouldn't have too hard of a time killing at high percents. She does, however have a good upward kill, her Uair, but I believe it is outranged by Dair.

ZSS, like most characters has an easily executable spike due to ES's long startup lag. She can also gimp us thanks to her tether recovery, but this also means we can gimp her with ES hog. Like us though, ZSS with almost always be able to recover if she is above the stage, but when she is below, she can easily be edge-hogged. If you do try to edgehog her, you have to watch out for her down-b Spike AND her Up-B spike. Her Up-B spike will allow her to take you down with her. As for Aurasphere, while I don't play like the regular Zamus, I tend to use Down-B to jump over any projectile or completely horizontal move, she doesn't have any reflectors, so you can spam it as much as you want. Not sure about cancellation with her stun-gun, but given AS gets canceled by almost everything, I'd say be wary of it.

This is all based off of knowledge of both characters, as I have yet to face a GOOD Lucario player with Zamus.

Edit: Almost forgot, watch out for armor pieces at the beginning of the match, not only are they a pain, but she can use her down-b footstool for mindgames and whatnot. Try to use them against her. It's not that hard.

Her Down-B footstool has deceptive range and can be used to recover, given that it yields such ridiculous horizontal distance. She can jump off her armor pieces, which is weird.

 

[DeliciousCake]

She does, however have a good upward kill, her Uair, but I believe it is outranged by Dair.

It's only outranged from directly above. From an angle it should outprioritize Lucario's Dair.

ZSS, like most characters has an easily executable spike due to ES's long startup lag. She can also gimp us thanks to her tether recovery, but this also means we can gimp her with ES hog. Like us though, ZSS with almost always be able to recover if she is above the stage, but when she is below, she can easily be edge-hogged. If you do try to edgehog her, you have to watch out for her down-b Spike AND her Up-B spike. Her Up-B spike will allow her to take you down with her.

This is generic for ZSS against ANY character.

As for Aurasphere, while I don't play like the regular Zamus, I tend to use Down-B to jump over any projectile or completely horizontal move, she doesn't have any reflectors, so you can spam it as much as you want. Not sure about cancellation with her stun-gun, but given AS gets canceled by almost everything, I'd say be wary of it.

Uncharged shots may get overridden by fully charged auraspheres, if my memory serves me correctly.

Edit: Almost forgot, watch out for armor pieces at the beginning of the match, not only are they a pain, but she can use her down-b footstool for mindgames and whatnot. Try to use them against her. It's not that hard.

More generics.

She can jump off her armor pieces, which is weird

Flip-jump has unique properties in that it allows for ZSS to footstool off any solid object, including stickers, trophies, and music CD's. This footstool also allows for mind-blowing horizontal distance.

 

[ph00tbag]

Zero Suit Samus can build Lucario up to 150% lickity split because she outranges him, and dair doesn't really phase her, so Lucario doesn't have too much of an approach. The issue is, once he's there, she can... keep hitting him, and doesn't really have many good options for KOing him, for whatever reason. Meanwhile, he's at full aura, doing 30-40% with every two or three hits, and then is able to KO Zamus with a Fsmash or Dsmash no problem. After that, ZSS just has to hit Lucario with a Plasma Whip, and it all repeats. The problem for ZSS is, Lucario is still the one knocking her off first, so even though they seem to be going even, Zamus just has a hard time with Lucario, and it's the most frustrating thing, because Zamus feels in control of the match-up easily, until it comes to the question of KOing, and she just can't do it.

Anyway, that's my impression of the match-up. Hope it helps.

 

[fkacyan]

Zero Suit Samus can build Lucario up to 150% lickity split because she outranges him, and dair doesn't really phase her, so Lucario doesn't have too much of an approach. The issue is, once he's there, she can... keep hitting him, and doesn't really have many good options for KOing him, for whatever reason. Meanwhile, he's at full aura, doing 30-40% with every two or three hits, and then is able to KO Zamus with a Fsmash or Dsmash no problem. After that, ZSS just has to hit Lucario with a Plasma Whip, and it all repeats. The problem for ZSS is, Lucario is still the one knocking her off first, so even though they seem to be going even, Zamus just has a hard time with Lucario, and it's the most frustrating thing, because Zamus feels in control of the match-up easily, until it comes to the question of KOing, and she just can't do it.

Anyway, that's my impression of the match-up. Hope it helps.

Phoot, the issue with this is that he forces ZSS to approach. He can just spam Aura Sphere all day and we have to go at him. He can also just shield the sideB and go to to jab or side B.

And I've seen Lucarios live to non-fresh plasma ships up to 200%, and I doubt it's going to be fresh.

 

[Adapt]

when you die everything gets reset, so it will be fresh after he kills you

 

[Timbers]

oh wow.

Appreciate the information d=

 

[fkacyan]

when you die everything gets reset, so it will be fresh after he kills you

Ah, true.

But then, he can shield that too =/

EDIT: What I mean to say here is that there's no reason that he'll run into it, as he can force an approach, and that the startup lag will give him enough time to not get hit.

 

[ph00tbag]

Phoot, the issue with this is that he forces ZSS to approach. He can just spam Aura Sphere all day and we have to go at him. He can also just shield the sideB and go to to jab or side B.

And I've seen Lucarios live to non-fresh plasma ships up to 200%, and I doubt it's going to be fresh.

Aura Sphere can be frustrating, yes, but if it's all he does, it's slow and easy to avoid, and somewhat difficult to spam efficiently, in contrast with Falco's Lasers, or Pit's Arrows. Then, once you get Lucario in the air, he just has a hard time, and you can build him up very easily. I recognize that Lucario is one of Samus' hardest match-ups, but it's not because of his projectile, it's because he's **** near impossible to KO before he can KO ZSS.

Furthermore, Plasma Whip will be fresh until it connects with Lucario. It will stay fresh if it misses, or even if it hits his shield, and if a fresh one hits Lucario at over about 160%, he's going to die.

 

[Ilucamy]

It's only outranged from directly above. From an angle it should outprioritize Lucario's Dair.

Really? Even when you factor in the disjointed hitbox?

Your sig is scary. So is your avatar...

 

[Timbers]

Thanks for all the input so far, guys.

 

[Tallen]

once I KO'ed two mid-heavyweight lvl 8 CPU's with one f-smash (sweetspotted btw). The funny thing was that I was around 140% and both were still 80-90%
Lucario is scary like that =3 though I pity you Zamus users a little now. I finally fought a solid Zamus player just after she publicly humiliated one of the toughest Marth players on the block, and I managed to whipe him out fairly easily, sadly.

 

[ddonaldo]

apart from lucario's b, zss side b outranges all of lucario's attacks