Lucario Help

[Azumouse]

I have been playing a lot of brawl lately and i have realized i have a very large problem fighting lucario, i'm being out prioritized at every turn in some cases i will be interrupted on the middle of a combo by a Nair etc.

Does anyone have any advice for fighting against lucario, has anyone else had a problem fighting lucario?
please help.

 

[Bellioes]

First of all, banana combo him. He has a short trip animation so its easier to followup. If you can banana lock him, hell take a huge hunk of damage from just going across FD.
Also, be more careful as he gets into killing percent. He gets stronger and its really frustrating when you get him to like 180% only to get hit by a Fsmash and die at like 90%. And keep your kill moves fresh. If you end your banana locks with Fsmash for damage. When you go for the kill use your Dsmash instead.
Finally, edgeguard effectively. Hes relatively easy to gimp if you can predict the trajectory of his UpB. If he likes to go to the ledge, run off stage and Fair in front of the ledge. That usually kills them at like 100% cause they dont expect it and DI wrong. Manipulate their recovery with reverse bananas and peunuts and then punish them when they get to predictable.

 

[Azumouse]

Thanks that seems to have helped somewhat, first time i have won a match against him.
but what can i do in a 2v2 with friendly fire? i do everything you have said but i cant use banana's for obvious reasons and without the banana's my efforts are reasonably futile due to his high priority; is there any thing inpiticular i can do against him in 2v2's?

 

[Bellioes]

Well Im not an expert on teams. I really have no experience with it. I guess just get a partner who uses a character with a good killing ability than try to use Diddys combos (be careful when using bananas as youve already stated) to put your opponent into killing percent for your partner to finish off. Thats all I can say from the videos Ive seen of Diddys in teams.

 

[white peachy]

Thanks that seems to have helped somewhat, first time i have won a match against him.
but what can i do in a 2v2 with friendly fire? i do everything you have said but i cant use banana's for obvious reasons and without the banana's my efforts are reasonably futile due to his high priority; is there any thing inpiticular i can do against him in 2v2's?

Why can't you use bananas in teams?

 

[Bellioes]

I think its cause of the limited space in teams. If you leave your bananas laying around youll limit not just your opponents options but also your teammates. I guess it just that the cons outweigh the pros. Anyways, dont take my work up on this. I could be wrong (Ive never played a competitive team match in my life) so yeah I dont know how it is actually playing with bananas on the field. This is just sortve a guess.

 

[white peachy]

I generally use diddy pretty much the same in doubles as singles. You should always use bananas in doubles, or you're greatly limiting yourself against the majority of the cast. Control over them is always important in singles as well as doubles. To not use them at all would be kinda silly. They're far too good to ignore. If you hit your teammate a few times in the match...so be it. But do not simply refuse to use them, you will lose a friend in your teammate lol.

As for Lucario. Controlling tempo/momentum in this matchup is infinitely important. Good Lucario's live to relatively high %'s, and the higher they go, the more dangerous they are. Maintain consistent pressure and try to win individual stocks(the first being of high importance), because Lucario is a hard character to multistock due to his strange mechanics. Start off strong and you put the pressure on them right from the start of the match as they tend to be kind of campy IMO. Be careful following up wiffed Luca fsmashes (they sometimes will fsmash a second time because it has like 0 wind down lag) and always be wary when edgeguarding of the shadow ball/aura sphere whatever.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Bananas aren't nearly as effective in teams. In singles, because there's only one other person, they're much easier to control and harder for the opponent to deal with, because they can't get help getting out of them. In doubles, their partner can intercept a banana to help your opponent, and because everyone else can slip, you have trouble keeping control of them. It's too easy for someone else to grab your bananas in doubles. Plus, you could make your partner trip, and that's never good.

As Bellioes said, the cons seem to outweigh the pros. Not that you can't use bananas in doubles, but you don't want to have two out and glide toss and dribble all over the place like you would in singles. You'd most probably just use one to set up a quick combo, and one for the kill. And you have to be careful and pay attention, because it's too easy for your oppponents to get control of the bananas by having one sheild and the other grab, and your teammate can trip on it and get killed.

But I hardly use Diddy for doubles anyway; I use Wario for doubles. It's just the few matches I have played as Diddy in doubles, you can't use the bananas as freely as you would in singles.

 

[Azumouse]

Yeah i think if you are going to use Nana's in double's then just use one then?
otherwise if your teammate trips it could prove fatal for them and for you, and even if this doesn't happen then you probably wont be able to keep control of them due to the mass of people;
thanks for the advice on Luca guy's it's helped a lot; but i don't think ill be using diddy in doubles much anymore.

 

[Kitamerby]

Finally, edgeguard effectively. Hes relatively easy to gimp if you can predict the trajectory of his UpB. If he likes to go to the ledge, run off stage and Fair in front of the ledge. That usually kills them at like 100% cause they dont expect it and DI wrong. Manipulate their recovery with reverse bananas and peunuts and then punish them when they get to predictable.

I was going to say that this doesn't work on competent Lucarios, but since it apparently did, I'll keep my mouth shut on this one.

Anyways, another thing is try not to recover from below ever. IIRC, Diddy's best option is to recover high or so to avoid being wrecked by Aura Sphere and Dair. Just watch out for baited airdodges on your way down. Also, don't glide toss predictably into a Lucario that's flashing. Aura Sphere doesn't care about your banana shenanigans and he'll end up eating like 5% while you die with the lights and the screaming since you can't shield while glide tossing.

Also, if the Lucario likes abusing fsmash, if you want to be REALLY sneaky, throw some bananas in front of him and rush him and see if he trips on the banana since he steps forwards while using Fsmash. I've had it happen to me by accident a few times, and since this Lucario apparently gets gimped by Diddy Kong, he might fall for this a few times. It'll also be completely hilarious and you can laugh at him for being an idjit. :3

 

[Bellioes]

I bet your right about it not working on competent Lucarios. It depends on predictability and manitpulating their recovery with your projectiles. Good Lucarios usually dont fall for the pressure and are definitely much harder to gimp. Not that it wont work ever but itll definitely happen less. Its not like its a guaranteed gimp.

 

[Kitamerby]

I bet your right about it not working on competent Lucarios. It depends on predictability and manitpulating their recovery with your projectiles. Good Lucarios usually dont fall for the pressure and are definitely much harder to gimp. Not that it wont work ever but itll definitely happen less. Its not like its a guaranteed gimp.

Actually, the reason it shouldn't work is because Diddy Kong has no moves that send Lucario at an angle that he would really need to use Extremespeed. If he's forced to use it, though, there's a good chance most anyone (not named Mario lol) could have a shot at gimping him if they predict right or have a low-knockback-angle aerial.

 

[Player-1]

Actually, the reason it shouldn't work is because Diddy Kong has no moves that send Lucario at an angle that he would really need to use Extremespeed. If he's forced to use it, though, there's a good chance most anyone (not named Mario lol) could have a shot at gimping him if they predict right or have a low-knockback-angle aerial.

Banana plucking and peanuts off stage messes with extreme speed angling, well messes with the opponents, I verse good Lucarios off and online and they'll sometimes get weird angle recoveries because of it. Not so much that it gimps them, but it puts them at a point where Diddy can get on stage and Fsmash them or something

 

[Bellioes]

True I was gonna add that most good Lucarios DI well enough that they always recover from above but thats always at higher percents. At lower percents, there really isnt anything that Diddy can do to put Lucario in a gimpable situation. The best move I can think of is a Fthrow at the ledge followed by bananas and peanuts but like I said, DIed right, your still coming in from a higher than 45 degree angle and then as you said, you dont really have to use ExtremeSpeed

EDIT: And as P1 said, projectiles really help in manipulating your UpB so that you either recover at weird angles or get punished for doing something else. Its the pressure that makes Lucarios easier to edgeguard.

 

[Kitamerby]

Banana plucking and peanuts off stage messes with extreme speed angling, well messes with the opponents, I verse good Lucarios off and online and they'll sometimes get weird angle recoveries because of it. Not so much that it gimps them, but it puts them at a point where Diddy can get on stage and Fsmash them or something

You have a point, but it's not something to rely on, since Lucario has options around all of those in Fair alone. <<

 

[Player-1]

You have a point, but it's not something to rely on, since Lucario has options around all of those in Fair alone. <<

uhhh...no he doesn't...lol? If he could reach Diddy with a fair, then he can reach the stage without using his up-b, which is't what I was saying...

 

[Kitamerby]

uhhh...no he doesn't...lol? If he could reach Diddy with a fair, then he can reach the stage without using his up-b, which is't what I was saying...

I was talking about the peanut breaking and a possible banana catch, but okay.

 

[Player-1]

I was talking about the peanut breaking and a possible banana catch, but okay.

Still, if the bananas were close enough for him to grab with a fair then he'd be able to grab the stage, Lucario has a huge ledge sweetspot. And if he did grab it at sometimes, he'd be force to use his Up-B from even lower which can result badly for Lucario

 

[ADHD]

Diddy can't gimp lucario its too difficult. You have to get your KO from a smash, it's so hard to get that final blow when he's at 140 because his hitboxes are retarted and its so hard to approach him at that percent. That's the ONLY reason why lucario would have a slight advantage against diddy.

 

[Kitamerby]

Diddy can't gimp lucario its too difficult. You have to get your KO from a smash, it's so hard to get that final blow when he's at 140 because his hitboxes are retarted and its so hard to approach him at that percent. That's the ONLY reason why lucario would have a slight advantage against diddy.

His hitboxes don't change with damage, actually. They're always the same size.

 

[white peachy]

Regardless of whether his hitboxes change or not...we all know the knockback of his moves increases and he becomes more dangerous at higher percents. Being that Diddy has trouble landing gimps on him and has trouble killing him at higher percents makes this matchup even or a slight advantage towards Lucario. I think his aura is as much a psychological advantage as anything, because when I play a good Lucario all that's going through my head around 130-140% is "I gotta kill him now...I gotta kill him now...." For some reason if I take the first stock I feel really good about the way the match is going to end too. Probably because I can rack 40-50% more before I lose the second stock.

 

[Player-1]

Diddy can't gimp lucario its too difficult. You have to get your KO from a smash, it's so hard to get that final blow when he's at 140 because his hitboxes are retarted and its so hard to approach him at that percent. That's the ONLY reason why lucario would have a slight advantage against diddy.

Ok, maybe I don't know anything on the Marth matchup, but I know this one. I play Lucarios fairly often...good ones...offline and online. It's not too difficult to gimp Lucario...

 

[ADHD]

I can never gimp them with my projectiles I mise will just try and dair him lmao. I've been too cautious, but something dumb always happens when I go offstage like I get stage spiked.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

Ok, maybe I don't know anything on the Marth matchup, but I know this one. I play Lucarios fairly often...good ones...offline and online. It's not too difficult to gimp Lucario...

yeah, especially since his up b doesnt hurt you, but it is difficult to kill him when hes "powered up," maybe its a psychological thing.

i usually grab the edge when hes recovering, and when he aims for the stage, i jump off and grab him and throw him off again, and sometimes i bair through his up b or his jump

if you want to spike him just predict where hes going early, cuz he snaps to the edge from far away

 

[Player-1]

I can never gimp them with my projectiles I mise will just try and dair him lmao. I've been too cautious, but something dumb always happens when I go offstage like I get stage spiked.

You don't need to be AS cautious against Lucario, you have to keep your guard up and all, but don't be as cautious as trying to do it with MK. Your projectiles aren't really used for gimping, that's like...a seondary thought, you want to be messing with their up-b, when you hit them with your projectiles he'll sink a little bit which can get you that edgehog, but most good Lucarios will land on stage still, but it still messes with their overall trajetory, for example they might be trying to curve their up-b so they land on the stage sooner, but the bananas and peanuts make it so they miss the curve and you could have time to get up from the ledge and smash attack him