lucario help

[25%Cotton]

sorry, but i was searching and i couldn't find any help when facing lucario (if i stupidly missed it, please direct me there)...

i've been having some trouble with a lucario that totally defeats my playstyle... his assaults from the air pierce so easily through all of my attempts, to the point where at best we're trading hits...

i lost 4/4 matches against him...

 

[ph00tbag]

Learn how to punish dair on shield. It's actually a really laggy move, and you can generally uair or utilt oos against it if they mess up the spacing. Learn to PS Aura Sphere. It's actually pretty easy, and you can just walk and PS at the same time, some times.

A lot of Lucarios like to roll a lot. Sometimes if you can predict the roll, you can dsmash them out of it, and you'll generally be difficult to punish, especially if you use your jab well.

Finally, don't get discouraged about Lucario. He's a tough match-up, and will give you a hard time, especially when you're first getting used to the match-up.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Sorry if I'm dumb but what's PS?

 

[ph00tbag]

PS = powershield

 

[sasook]

I actually fought a Lucario with her for the first time yesterday, and man, I just could not approach at all. Broken disjointed hitboxes were....everywhere. From above, underneath or from the side, I didn't know how to fight him. The best I could do was, as the TC said, trade hits with him. It was pretty even (I could get him down to one stock) but still, I was surprised at how hard this matchup was.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Like ph00t said, you should be defensive in this matchup. You dont have to be campy if you dont want to, just defensive. Like you have to learn how to counter all of his moves. Most Lucarios approach from the air. You can counter most aerials approaches with utilt or uair out of shield. You just have to know when the attack ends and when to drop your shield and counter.

 

[Mazaloth]

I have been having hard time with the Ice climbers.
Basically they limit movement with there Icicles, and they are shorter then normal so Bair and Fair is horrible. Also, since there are two of them stunning and grabbing is near impossible.
Any tips?

 

[Shadow Tactics]

IC advice

I have been having hard time with the Ice climbers.
Basically they limit movement with there Icicles, and they are shorter then normal so Bair and Fair is horrible. Also, since there are two of them stunning and grabbing is near impossible.
Any tips?

Side B is your best friend in this matchup, use it to space yourself as much as you can. Try to get them in the air and juggle them as much as possible, ZSS destroys IC in the air (that's why usually in this matchup after a downsmash I follow up with a uair and save bair for when they're at the right percentage to be killed). Don't ever try to grab ICs, that's a really REALLY bad move, especially because they can grab you if you miss, and that could cost you a stock. If they spam icicles you can generally hit them with a well timed Side B if you short hop it over the icicles at the right time. Learn the maximum range of your dsmash as it's also very useful when fighting IC. Try not to stay up close for too long (unless they're seperated), attack when you see openings, be patient. Don't do things like dash attack or utilt recklessly because you can easily be shieldgrabbed. Don't neutral B too near them or you'll most likely end up getting dash grabbed, space it well if you use it (I don't know what the others think but I generally don't find neutral B too useful in this matchup). Try and seperate them and go after them one by one. The CPU IC is pretty stupid and gets gimped very easily. That's pretty much all the advice I can think of for now, it's pretty early here lol @_@.

 

[ph00tbag]

Basically, against ICs, don't be afraid to use your grounded spacing moves like dsmash and Plasma Whip, because IC's can't PS them. If Popo tries to PS, then Nana will get hit. All of these moves are also very good for splitting the ICs up, and if you kill Nana, then it's really all over.

 

[Adapt]

I find iceclimbers will try and force me to approach with ice blocks. Just shield them and wait for the best moment, or wait for them to approach. Also stay in the air or at maximum range.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Is approaching with fair good against IC's assuming that you are using max range?

 

[Garde]

No. You don't want to approach them with melee-range attacks. If they grab you and the IC player is decent at all, you will lose a stock.

Make use of the fact that they cannot power shield and harass them at range until you have a safe opening to score a few melee hits and get them into the air.

 

[Tezmata]

Didn't read much of the thread, but the reason many people find the Lucario match-up to be so awful isn't because it actually is difficult. It's because it requires a different style of play. Most ZSS mains are used to an extremely offensive style because let's face it, she's an aggressive character and that works for her. With Lucario, it's very defensive. You have to predict, dodge, shield, and time things more often than you do in other matches. It's not harder, just different.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Didn't read much of the thread, but the reason many people find the Lucario match-up to be so awful isn't because it actually is difficult. It's because it requires a different style of play. Most ZSS mains are used to an extremely offensive style because let's face it, she's an aggressive character and that works for her. With Lucario, it's very defensive. You have to predict, dodge, shield, and time things more often than you do in other matches. It's not harder, just different.

So basically you just space with Lucario more than other characters?

 

[Kitamerby]

Didn't read much of the thread, but the reason many people find the Lucario match-up to be so awful isn't because it actually is difficult. It's because it requires a different style of play. Most ZSS mains are used to an extremely offensive style because let's face it, she's an aggressive character and that works for her. With Lucario, it's very defensive. You have to predict, dodge, shield, and time things more often than you do in other matches. It's not harder, just different.

And you gals couldn't kill a fly with a rocket launcher, which makes it that much easier to aurape. <<

Lucario has the advantage in this matchup by default. There's no denying it. It is a harder matchup than most. Not unwinnable, but you probably won't win without some sort of small skill gap.


I would recommend not going offensive in this match, though. Powershield enough Aura Spheres and I'd imagine poking with SideB a bit would frustrate some Lucarios (up until the point where you can actually develop your own strategies to beat them, at least.)

 

[noradseven]

2 of my friends main lucario and I can tell you this match sucks lucario roll dodge is dumb.

That being said its certainly not too bad. Lucario players can be more easily bated into down smash compared to other players. I would avoid using n-B because you will get owned, f-B is okay but you can still get punished.

I use the first hit of over B to clash with aura the second to smack in the face. but your main weapon against lucario will be back-air, lucario has some serious problems against this move. Also get lucario off the edge you can down smash his recovery every time.

Just outpredict and don't let lucario live above 120%.

*seriously on lucario's recovery too the edge. pro-strat, downsmash down BB, up B. Its because of that and that alone that I would say this match is even instead of 6-4.

 

[jibbyjaont]

If Lucario is going for the edge, wouldn't it be easier to just edge hog?

 

[Garde]

He can grab onto walls if you hog him.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm going to second Norad on bair against Lucario. I've mentioned this before, but bair eats through aura sphere like a fat man eats through cupcakes.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I'm going to second Norad on bair against Lucario. I've mentioned this before, but bair eats through aura sphere like a fat man eats through cupcakes.

My only doubt is that it doesn't clink with an overcharged aura sphere IIRC.

 

[ph00tbag]

My only doubt is that it doesn't clink with an overcharged aura sphere IIRC.

I've punched through full charge at something like 70%.

 

[DeliciousCake]

By overcharge I mean, down a stock and at high percentage. The ball gets unnaturally large, and I think it has priority over it.

 

[Garde]

The easy way to test this is in Training mode, which I can do tonight when I run my other tests.

 

[ph00tbag]

By overcharge I mean, down a stock and at high percentage. The ball gets unnaturally large, and I think it has priority over it.

It's possible. I've not tried it in those circumstances.

 

[noradseven]

edit: im stupid

 

[noradseven]

It's possible. I've not tried it in those circumstances.

Fear the death aura sphere, like a 4-5 min match lucario is 2 stocks down and at 200%, and hasn't use his aura yet(stupid), but the aura becomes like bigger than lucario, and is pretty much an instant kill, I saw it once, everyone in the FFA, was WTF, run, I think it did like 60some % damage.

 

[TheRockSays]

Against Lucario hes must up and down tilt him to hell! PS aerials.

 

[noradseven]

Against Lucario hes must up and down tilt him to hell! PS aerials, and don't let him live above 150% or your screwed.

If you add that line I agree completely.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Know that gimping Lucario is not as easy as most people seem to think. We have a lovely wallcling option out of Extreme Speed, which is a pretty flexible recovery tool because of it's high level of controlability, and most Lucarios will counterpick a stage where this is possible. If he gets too far beneath the stage, however, he can be gimped in a pretty gay manner since Extreme Speed won't be able to travel enough distance and turn onto the stage as well (usually).

Side B will probably be useful for ya. A lot of Lucarios like their Fsmash a lot. It's got IASA frames and high range, but Side B has even longer. Mind that it doesn't become too stale, or Lucario will get really high % (170% is his cap) and aurape you. Lucarios also love their aura spheres

Lucario's a pretty versatile thingamajig. A lot of Lucarios will have different styles. I, personally, prefer the air (zomg), meaning I love to combo with Fair and go for gimps. He works offensively, defensively, balanced, gimp-happy, grab-happy, and campy as well. Watch your opponent and see if you can work out their pattern. Then punish it. Lucario is put in a awkward position when his Dair is shielded low to the ground. This isn't quite so easy for ZZS to punish because of her grab animation, which is the standard for punishing a shielded Dair. ZZS has great anti-air abilities though. Utilize 'em.