Lucario change wishlist.

[Jsteel3]

This is kinda off-topic but @ Jsteel3
Only one more pkmn? That sounds very if you ask me. Surely at least six PKMN isn't stretching it that far unless I up'd it by one, after 7 that's going too far.

I would believe that the pokemon roster would not outweigh the mario roster (the ones with the mushroom icon not including yoshi) which only has 5. Lengend of Zelda's will also be capped at 5 as well with the addition of a Ganondorf being the 5th.

 

[Masonomace]

I would believe that the pokemon roster would not outweigh the mario roster (the ones with the mushroom icon not including yoshi) which only has 5. Lengend of Zelda's will also be capped at 5 as well with the addition of a Ganondorf being the 5th.

I dig this which is true but PKMN as it's universe in Super Smash Bros. has only increased it's numbers by each new Smash game. Brawl had six playable PKMN characters which already surpassed Mario's roster from Brawl (If we aren't counting DK and Yoshi as you've said). And just to show a chart of characters in case it's been too long, this:

SSB64 = 2
SSBM = 4
SSBB = 6
Sm4sh = ?!?!?!?!?

 

[Jsteel3]

I dig this which is true but PKMN as it's universe in Super Smash Bros. has only increased it's numbers by each new Smash game. Brawl had six playable PKMN characters which already surpassed Mario's roster from Brawl (If we aren't counting DK and Yoshi as you've said). And just to show a chart of characters in case it's been too long, this:

SSB64 = 2
SSBM = 4
SSBB = 6
Sm4sh = ?!?!?!?!?

yea that is true if you count pkm trainer's pkm as their own character. (Which is what Sakuri does and might be another reason why he cut him to not surpass Mario, LOZ, etc)
but not counting pkm trainer's pokemon...
Pokemon and Mario two of their big titles have always had the same amount of characters.

(Side note I hope pkm trainer shows up in Charizard's mega evolution FS in a start up cut scene)

 

[Masonomace]

yea that is true if you count pkm trainer's pkm as their own character. (Which is what Sakuri does and might be another reason why he cut him to not surpass Mario, LOZ, etc)
but not counting pkm trainer's pokemon...
Pokemon and Mario two of their big titles have always had the same amount of characters.

(Side note I hope pkm trainer shows up in Charizard's mega evolution FS in a start up cut scene)

With Transformations being removed as a whole from what's been revealed so far seems promising for the idea of 'switching' to be cut fully. With that in mind Mario & Pokemon as playable characters in Sm4sh may actually be odd even numbers. But if I had to have be a PKMN universe decision judge I'd probably go with 5 ultimately if It can't be 6, 6 definitely if 6 in brawl was fine, and never go past 6 because too many. Also OMG at your side note **** yes!!!(?)!!!!! Red for Sm4sh cut-scenes~

For a new change I wanna see for lols is MegaLucario reverting momentarily de-evolving to Riolu for 5 seconds .
Edit: And we thought that it was bad losing to So-Po in Melee/Brawl, wait 'till you lose a stock to Riolu in that 5 second frame of time.

 

[Maikou]

Hm....I'd say we're in for about four more Pokemon with those numbers. Mewtwo Confirmed!

 

[Masonomace]

Hm....I'd say we're in for about four more Pokemon with those numbers. Mewtwo Confirmed!

That somehow doesn't seem . Would be nice to see Lucario's clone counterpart in Sm4sh.

 

[Maikou]

Hey, don't even joke about Mewtwo and Lucario being clones. they're completely different characters with completely different moves. The only similarity is the Neutral B, which even then is extremely different besides a few things.

 

[Masonomace]

For the sake of unique differences, Lucario's Aura Sphere is aura-based from his built-in AuraBoost% mechanic so actually they're barely similar with the exception of visual charging animation. Annnnnd that's it

New change to add on: If the Aura charges from Project M were applied somehow, I wouldn't mind that but his Up Taunt would have to be Sean Schemmel screaming briefly to gain some aura ki.

 

[Nintendrone]

Some changes I'd like to see:

1. For the love of Arceus give Extreme Speed some hitboxes! Making a recovery slow AND non-damaging is beyond stupid.
2. Lower the aura cap. 170% was too much, so maybe 150 or something?
3. Make Double Team give enough freeze frames to the attacker to actually get hit.
4. Let Force Palm grab in the air, and make it more powerful.
5. Don't lower aura because Lucario's winning. I believe it should be all about the risk-reward of having high aura at lethal damage.

 

[Maikou]

Some changes I'd like to see:

1. For the love of Arceus give Extreme Speed some hitboxes! Making a recovery slow AND non-damaging is beyond stupid.
2. Lower the aura cap. 170% was too much, so maybe 150 or something?
3. Make Double Team give enough freeze frames to the attacker to actually get hit.
4. Let Force Palm grab in the air, and make it more powerful.
5. Don't lower aura because Lucario's winning. I believe it should be all about the risk-reward of having high aura at lethal damage.

This. Just, this. Minus the lowering of the Aura, as Sakurai has confirmed the Aura powers will become even stronger thus far.
Seriously, Double Team needs every single frame of the animation working as a Counter hitbox in order to be effective! I can hardly hit level 5's with that move and for an average Casual player, that should NOT be so! Especially when I can spam Marth/Roy and Ike's counters like nobody's business while using the moves in the exact same way!

Double team feels like I need to elaborately plan every single move I make so the foe attack with precise timing, which is just stupidly complex and annoys the heck out of me.

The exact length of the Counter hitboxes are EXACTLY THE SAME as the Fire Emblem trio, too! Why! I know Brawl didn't exactly get to be the most complete game ever, but STILL!

 

[Masonomace]

Seriously, Double Team needs every single frame of the animation working as a Counter hitbox in order to be effective! Especially when I can spam Marth/Roy and Ike's counters like nobody's business while using the moves in the exact same way! Double team feels like I need to elaborately plan every single move I make so the foe attack with precise timing, which is just stupidly complex and annoys the heck out of me. The exact length of the Counter hitboxes are EXACTLY THE SAME as the Fire Emblem trio, too! Why! I know Brawl didn't exactly get to be the most complete game ever, but STILL!

I agree with the 1st & 4th sentence, but DT / RDT has a longer lasting counter frame window & is the strongest counter in Brawl that kills with enough AB%. DT despite how late the slide comes out needs every counter-intangible frame for hard reads to be effective if not deadly. Marth & Ike's counter are 'quick & easy' punishes with the rare exceptions like Judgement-9 to retaliate HUGE knock-back, while DT is a set knock-back move with more utility. Reversed Double Team (RDT) is AMAZING and has a huge slide-box behind Lucario grounded or airborne. A successful RDT / DT off-stage depending where your direction is facing, is huge horizontal distance making Lucario's recovery top tier, I suggest using the proc safely for projectiles. Common hard reads for Double Team includes punishing get-up attacks >100%, any move with decent / bad ending lag, & auto-piloting.

One extra thing for my change list is we need more doge talking! And keep how Lucario will proc his DT, his activation in 2/3x or 1/4x gaming speed looks amazing!

 

[Ryan.]

I personally love what they did with him in Project M, especially his side special in the air, but I don't think they will be doing that for Smash 4 haha. I do love that his aura has more influence this time around, where he gets stronger when he takes in more damage. Other than that, Lucario is fine I think.

 

[Maikou]

The only thing I think we can all agree on, is that Sakurai SERIOUSLY needs to cut the "weakening" mechanic. One shouldn't be punished for doing well! Especially when one is at 170% Damage!

 

[Masonomace]

The weakening mechanic only occurred if Lucario wasn't at a high % being in the lead or after you lose your first stock. But what I'm curious / worried about is if AuraBoost% will carry over from brawl? Some moves got few stages of AB% while other moves got like 6 or 7. So lets say the brawl intervals (not entirely true on this) were 30% 60% 90% 120% 150% & 167% as the cap. After that AB% increased further the longer you last, resetting after you die or lose a stock. The problem was if Lucario died /lose a stock first he'd be very behind & since AB% took a long time to catch up on his next stock, it would take even longer for him to 'catch' back up. My wishlist of his AB% in Sm4sh:
Earliest / 1st stage of AB% = 15-20%
2nd stage = 35-40%
3rd stage = 55-60%
4th stage = 75-80%
5th stage = 95-100%
Latest & Maximum / 6th stage = 120%
Based off the early % kills we saw from the Sm4sh demo, it'd be a feat for Lucario to live until 120% as his pretend maximum aura. The only issue I can't help change is the late arrival of AB% you get for lasting longer through your next stocks, should you lose your stock(s) before your opponent. Maybe it'll reset & immediately start rising the moment you leave the revival platform?

Edit: Apologies for the silly DT post @ Maikou , but I definitely agree with the removal of the weakening aura mechanic (and more). It was punishing Lucario players who do well in matches forcing them to adjust differently.

***A rumor I heard from a smash friend that momentum canceling was apparently in the Sm4sh demo. This makes me think maybe the aura cap would definitely be around 120-130% if it were true.***

 

[Swift Fox]

Yeah, how about no. Sharing a move is nothing new and has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on Mewtwo's chances of returning. Seriously, can we all just shut up about Lucario possibly disconfirming Mewtwo already?!

There is text in my post that you can't really see without converting it into BB Code editor.

I'm saying if Lucario's special move is Shadow Ball, it will def affect Mewtwo's chance. You're not going to say ortherwise, or would you...

 

[Masonomace]

I'm saying if Lucario's special move is Shadow Ball, it will def affect Mewtwo's chance. You're not going to say ortherwise, or would you...

Yeah true SF, even though Sakurai is bit of a troll I think he'll make them the same way but different color, visuals along with some custom special ideas similar to Project M Lucario's Aura Charged Aura Sphere (The Spirit bomb) & let's not forget Sean Schemmel voicing for Lucario I can see some DBZ references going on. We still must have the Lucario vs Mewtwo MU to happen!Also quoting myself for a post I just typed concerning the Aura Sphere / Shadow Ball change,

NB Aura Sphere for example you still ASC (Aura Sphere Charge) per-say that ASC orb was a ticking hit-box maybe that would have a secondary effect of wind-box properties or magnetizing properties of bringing in characters closer to it.....Wait Magnetizing?!?! Confirmed Steel type.

 

[Maikou]

There is text in my post that you can't really see without converting it into BB Code editor.

I'm saying if Lucario's special move is Shadow Ball, it will def affect Mewtwo's chance. You're not going to say ortherwise, or would you...

Pikachu and Pichu shared practically their whole moveset. They coexisted just fine. I think two Pokemon who can actually legit share two projectile moves can coexist just fine as well, don't you?

Mario and Luigi share Up-Specials. Luigi was Mario's clone in the first Smash Brothers game.

You can't seriously tell me sharing a move-A SINGLE MOVE-affects someone's chances either way. You just can't.

 

[Masonomace]

You can't seriously tell me sharing a move-A SINGLE MOVE-affects someone's chances either way. You just can't.

I'm saying if Lucario's special move is Shadow Ball, it will def affect Mewtwo's chance.

He's been seriously telling you if

I'm just adulting, but I did come back with a relevant post on more changing wishes~ & quoted you both to get your attention & more


Lucario's Neutral B special = Aura Sphere
It's not a change to the move itself, it's a hidden mechanic that we should have that goes for any / every character that charges & stores their projectile (& or holding an item but ofc it would be a set weight dependent), holding it in until ready to fire / release their said projectile. I want Lucario to be heavier the larger his Aura Sphere is charged / gets. This ALSO applies to his AuraBoost% making it larger in size as well. I can see a lot of dispute & the negative responses against it but throwing it out here as a change I want to see. Plus it goes towards the option for Lucario to fall faster & emphasize little if not any Steel attribute as his own type.

 

[Karnu]

Brawl Lucario but not floaty and has Project M extreme speed, fix up his double team and give him the ability to grab people in the air with force palm

 

[Superior Spider-Mew]

Well really since he's nothing like how he is in Project M, I would at least for him to be faster, just sayiiin. I personally think his moveset is fine in Brawl but I just still wish he was faster is all.
1. extremespeed to have a hitbox
2. extremespeed to have a faster startup
3. a Sir Aaron or Riley costume, that would be sooo cool.
4. make this lucario a female, I dont know why but I'm just curious as what a female lucario would sound like, also it would add another female to the roster haha
5. the P:M air force palm grab
6. Not as floaty as he was in Brawl
7. double team to either freeze the opponent to actually hit or make it much faster

 

[zero sum]

uhh

–force palm air grab
–lower the % for maximum aura (170% is entirely too much, somewhere around 135-150 seems ideal, probably on the upper end of that)
–extremespeed hitbox
–reduce the ending lag in the air for nair. don't know how major this is but it was always something that bothered me
–no weakening mechanic when you're ahead by a couple stocks
–make his attacks a little stronger at low percentages in general? even though lucario is supposed to be a “comeback character” or what have you & you don't have to make his aerials hit like high-speed locomotives, 3.5% on a forward aerial just seems a little unfair.

just stating my onion

 

[D-idara]

His UpB now has a hitbox, that's all I needed, Lucario had enough martial arts moves on Brawl, I think Project M takes it a little too far.

 

[7Blue]

I never liked that you could break out of a Force Palm grab.

 

[Masonomace]

I never liked that you could break out of a Force Palm grab.

As I read this I just was remembering when I was playing with Kami & I somehow broke out of a FP with my % over the 40's. Most shocking thing I've ever done with breaking command grabs. I didn't mind the grab mashing break, both characters had almost equal ending lag frames to react. Definitely hope SSB4 Lucario doesn't get a nerf to his Side B FP & see people mash out breaking out of FP grabs at high % per-say 120%.
We approve of FPCG? Also do we want F1FP to return? Yes to both

 

[Fastblade5035]

Just two things for me.

-Make ExtremeSpeed like Wolf's BUp, but lower the amount of hits the higher Lucario's Aura is. You lose hits, but gain much more knockback.

-Replace Force Palm with Metal Claw, basically Quick Draw x Jolt Haymaker.

 

[Arthreeteseven]

He definitely needs a Metal type move, maybe Iron Head or Iron Claw

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Just two things for me.

-Make ExtremeSpeed like Wolf's BUp, but lower the amount of hits the higher Lucario's Aura is. You lose hits, but gain much more knockback.

-Replace Force Palm with Metal Claw, basically Quick Draw x Jolt Haymaker.

Based on what we've seen already, Extreme Speed does hit, but it only hits once. It was seen during his FS, so I don't know if that is a factor. I do like your idea, though.

However, I don't believe Force Palm should be changed. I think his moveset is perfect the way it is, just a few tweaks are needed, specifically for Double Team. Aura plays a part in Extreme Speed's speed and distance, so I'm cool with that. Force Palm seems to be faster(again, this was during his Mega Evo), so that's good. But with custom movesets on the way, who knows if his moves will have different effects, or become flat-out different moves? What do you think?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

The only change I want for Lucario is better attack power so he actually land some kos.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

The only change I want for Lucario is better attack power so he actually land some kos.

Well, his aura has more influence now, so, I think you're covered.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Well, his aura has more influence now, so, I think you're covered.

Sounds good, maybe I'll consider using him.

 

[Spirst]

Back when Brawl was a thing, I had wanted to get into Lucario but I never could. One of the biggest things that turned me off about him was his extreme floatiness. Lucario is supposed to be 119.0 lbs so why was he floating like a Jigglypuff? Hopefully the new physics of Sm4sh remedy this issue.

Other than that, his piss poor KO power was another turnoff, Thankfully though, his aura is buffed now.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Back when Brawl was a thing, I had wanted to get into Lucario but I never could. One of the biggest things that turned me off about him was his extreme floatiness. Lucario is supposed to be 119.0 lbs so why was he floating like a Jigglypuff? Hopefully the new physics of Sm4sh remedy this issue.

Other than that, his piss poor KO power was another turnoff, Thankfully though, his aura is buffed now.

His floatiness was never an issue for me. In fact, it empowered his ability to wall climb, which I thought was pretty fun to do. And despite his floatiness, he was still a character that was not easily downed. But he seems to fall a bit faster now, which I can still work with.

About his killing power, yes, it was very low, but long drawn out matches would work out for him in the end. Should he get the first kill, his power would be great enough to rack his opponent's damage up to his level once more, assuming he didn't go down in the meantime.