Social Lower Norfair

[BaganSmashBros]

It's safe to say that unaltered (with emphasis on this word) Other M design will not be used as it would make it impossible to reuse his animations later due to significant differences in proportions when compared to his other appearances.

and canonically it isn't even really him

This again...Other M Ridley is literally Ridley with a different birth date. He has all the memories (whenever Samus is involved, he focuses on her and doesn't try to kill her as fast as possible like he does with those he has no connections with) and there are absolutely no differences in appearance. His frozen corpse in Fusion uses the same design as in Super Metroid and in one trailer, Ridley had the same design as in the game with minor differences in textures.
Keep in mind that EVERYONE had a different design here, e.g. Mother Brain had very long limbs here while in SM she had very short arms and Geemers/Zoomers also have long legs here while they had little claws in other games.

Considering Bowser's size in odyssey (over 20 ft tall, considering Mario is 5'01"), how would Ridley be too big? I mean, Ridley is only 2-3 times Samus's height (6'3"), so that would put Ridley at about 18'9".

Spoiler: Bowser isn't too big for smash

View attachment 147367
Mario is 5'01".
There are school buses smaller than Bowser in this image.

And if size is an issue, how does a pink ball with a diameter of 8 inches or a tiny man 19 mm tall (3 quarters of an inch) get in?

I think it was just 3DS limitations or a lack of time/resources.

Bowser changes his size all the time, all Kirby characters have been upscaled and so was Olimar. If you want an actual counter-argument, use Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu and Ganondorf. As for Olimar specifically, the important thing here is not his size on its own, but how small he was in comparison to everything. You had to zerg rush everything to survive, but in Smash, he can fight on his own and the amount of pikmin that follow him is pathetic in comparison.

3DS limitations are not responsible for any of this and neither is the lack of time or resources. The latter makes even less sense when DLC is a thing and yet Ridley was nowhere in sight.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

If we got the Other M model (assuming it was altered), they’d have to focus on polishing it a lot more in the event it was the design chosen for him to be a playable character. When they made him a stage hazard, he was less of a priority to work on or give attention to detail, so they cut some corners and half-assed the textures, etc to get the game out on time.

 

[MrRoidley]

The Bowser argument is valid imo since Bowser is only made smaller whenever he's playable. Otherwise he's always gigantic. Why couldn't this be the same with Ridley?
Same with Ganondorf. In Hyrule Warriors and Smash, where he's playable, he's taller than Link yes, but in the Zelda games he's almost 2x Link's size

 

[BaganSmashBros]

The Bowser argument is valid imo since Bowser is only made smaller whenever he's playable. Otherwise he's always gigantic. Why couldn't this be the same with Ridley?
Same with Ganondorf. In Hyrule Warriors and Smash, where he's playable, he's taller than Link yes, but in the Zelda games he's almost 2x Link's size

Because Bowser changs his size in main games too and I'm not talking about the changes between games. For example, he shrinks in Galaxy once everything is done. Another thing to keep in mind is that Mario is very short. Bowser is just not a good character here when he's so inconsistent.
I...don't remember how big Ganondorf is in HW. I'd like to see that just out of curiosity.

 

[IsmaR]

I...don't remember how big Ganondorf is in HW. I'd like to see that just out of curiosity.

From a quick screenshot (he's bigger in cutscene, iirc).

 

[BaganSmashBros]

From a quick screenshot (he's bigger in cutscene, iirc).

He looks like he's pretty close to his normal size even if he is shorter. Can't really tell for sure when they are standing like this. Perhaps I should take a look at their models at some point. Still, this is useful. Thanks.

 

[Drclaw411]

Has it ever been pointed out before that Ridley’s stock icon in Smash 4 is actually his Brawl model from the Dojo, rather than his Smash 4 Other M model?

I mean that stock icon is exactly from his Brawl model, 100%. I have no idea what this means/meant (if anything) or why they didn’t use his Other M model for his stock icon. I thought it was interesting though.

 

[.Shìkì]

Considering Bowser's size in odyssey (over 20 ft tall, considering Mario is 5'01"), how would Ridley be too big? I mean, Ridley is only 2-3 times Samus's height (6'3"), so that would put Ridley at about 18'9".

Spoiler: Bowser isn't too big for smash

View attachment 147367
Mario is 5'01".
There are school buses smaller than Bowser in this image.

And if size is an issue, how does a pink ball with a diameter of 8 inches or a tiny man 19 mm tall (3 quarters of an inch) get in?

I think it was just 3DS limitations or a lack of time/resources.

I think one of the main issues was that most ridley models would look weird scaled down due to most iterations having incredibly thin limbs, which is an issue the Other M version does not have.


On the other thing, I'd be fine with a changed up Other M ridley, but best case would be Proteus Ridley (bet you did not guess I'd say that. Kappa.)

Playable boss would suck, and so would eg. playing stage 2 ridley and Final Smash lets you transform into adult Ridley... urgh.

Tbh, the best case scenario would be the one someone posted earlier, where only Ridleys body is a hurtbox and the wings/tail are not and just used to make him look bigger than he is. I'd add making the tail a hurtbox when he attacks with it, because otherwise those disjoints would be disgusting.

 

[Dhragen]

I think theres's three options for ridley.

1. A straight resized Ridley Based on one of the metroid games.

2. An Smash Original Design: For meet some design criteria, Ridley model could be altered to match some characters in therms of proportions. Wider arms, bigger body, smaller wings, and bigger Hands and Feets (All fighting games resize the hands and feets of barehand fighters for visualize better when the attack/hitbox occurs

3. A Ridley Clone: NOT Confuse with a character clone. For counterpoint the "a small Ridley would be inconsistent portrayal to his character, etc" argument, what if the Ridley we get it's not the actual Ridley, but a version exclusive to smash, while still having the big Ridley. I hate to aknowledge the existance of Other M, but thanks to that we know that Ridley CAN be cloned, so a genetic altered Ridley clone made by the Space Pirates could be in the realm of possibilities, while still having the big Ridley (he could appear as the Final Smash of the Small Rildey). As for "why would you create a smaller ridley clone?", It could have been created for stealth, combat and infiltration missions in small areas, plus it could also require less supplies for its creation considering his size.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Has it ever been pointed out before that Ridley’s stock icon in Smash 4 is actually his Brawl model from the Dojo, rather than his Smash 4 Other M model?

I mean that stock icon is exactly from his Brawl model, 100%. I have no idea what this means/meant (if anything) or why they didn’t use his Other M model for his stock icon. I thought it was interesting though.

Yes, it's been pointed out multiple times, but there's no explanation for this. The model they use in the game has its own CSP that actually matches it, making his stock icons (yes, icons because there's a separate icon used for "Meta Ridley", which is the same as normal one but darker) even weirder.

Also, Metal Face had a stock icon just like Ridley does.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1854&v=g8AcAENWeXs​

^^
Game Xplain's latest video talking about their predictions for E3. Andre says this about Ridley @31:15......

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."​

EDIT: False alarm....

https://www.resetera.com/posts/8894206/

"I phrased it very poorly haha--it's not a tease for anything but our own content "

 

[Xhampi]

Mario characters are always as tall as the game they're in need :

It's not really a question of "Can Sakurai make Ridley playable ?" but "Can he do it while respecting what makes him Ridley ?" and so far his answer has been no.

In a way it means we have more faith in his abilities than most, including the man himself.

Honestly at this point if Ridley still doesn't make it this time, I think our best hope would be something like a Metroid Warrior, a way to give the idea of a playable Ridley a foot in the door.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Considering Bowser's size in odyssey (over 20 ft tall, considering Mario is 5'01"), how would Ridley be too big? I mean, Ridley is only 2-3 times Samus's height (6'3"), so that would put Ridley at about 18'9".

Spoiler: Bowser isn't too big for smash

View attachment 147367
Mario is 5'01".
There are school buses smaller than Bowser in this image.

And if size is an issue, how does a pink ball with a diameter of 8 inches or a tiny man 19 mm tall (3 quarters of an inch) get in?

I think it was just 3DS limitations or a lack of time/resources.

Because bigness is part of Ridley's character and has no other attributes worth noting and has never changed size in between or even withing the same game. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't he change size in Prime 3?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't he change size in Prime 3?

Yes. When you encounter him as Meta Ridley, he's big enough for Samus to stand in his open mouth. But when you encounter him later as Omega Ridley, he's much smaller.

 

[UltimateWario]

I’m a fan of the “Bowser has only been resized to be playable but Ridley can’t be resized to be playable because he’s never been resized to be playable” argument.

Mario characters are always as tall as the game they're in need :

It's not really a question of "Can Sakurai make Ridley playable ?" but "Can he do it while respecting what makes him Ridley ?" and so far his answer has been no.

In a way it means we have more faith in his abilities than most, including the man himself.

Honestly at this point if Ridley still doesn't make it this time, I think our best hope would be something like a Metroid Warrior, a way to give the idea of a playable Ridley a foot in the door.

My problem with the whole “can it be done, can it be done respectfully, etc” argument is that it HAS been done, respectfully, and by one of our own, forced to work within the constraints of the modding tools we have and with a custom model that turned the worst Ridley design into one of the best. It’s pretty widely considered one of, if not THE best character mods for P:M. So it can be done, and I imagine the man developing the game would have a lot easier time than our friend Bagan did. It’s baffling how he can say “oh we tried, and it was just too resource consuming”, and I’m starting to think he just tried making Ridley playable at normal, huge size. Which is dumb.

 

[soviet prince]

Considering Bowser's size in odyssey (over 20 ft tall, considering Mario is 5'01"), how would Ridley be too big? I mean, Ridley is only 2-3 times Samus's height (6'3"), so that would put Ridley at about 18'9".

Spoiler: Bowser isn't too big for smash

View attachment 147367
Mario is 5'01".
There are school buses smaller than Bowser in this image.

And if size is an issue, how does a pink ball with a diameter of 8 inches or a tiny man 19 mm tall (3 quarters of an inch) get in?

I think it was just 3DS limitations or a lack of time/resources.

It's safe to say that unaltered (with emphasis on this word) Other M design will not be used as it would make it impossible to reuse his animations later due to significant differences in proportions when compared to his other appearances.


This again...Other M Ridley is literally Ridley with a different birth date. He has all the memories (whenever Samus is involved, he focuses on her and doesn't try to kill her as fast as possible like he does with those he has no connections with) and there are absolutely no differences in appearance. His frozen corpse in Fusion uses the same design as in Super Metroid and in one trailer, Ridley had the same design as in the game with minor differences in textures.
Keep in mind that EVERYONE had a different design here, e.g. Mother Brain had very long limbs here while in SM she had very short arms and Geemers/Zoomers also have long legs here while they had little claws in other games.

Bowser changes his size all the time, all Kirby characters have been upscaled and so was Olimar. If you want an actual counter-argument, use Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pichu and Ganondorf. As for Olimar specifically, the important thing here is not his size on its own, but how small he was in comparison to everything. You had to zerg rush everything to survive, but in Smash, he can fight on his own and the amount of pikmin that follow him is pathetic in comparison.

3DS limitations are not responsible for any of this and neither is the lack of time or resources. The latter makes even less sense when DLC is a thing and yet Ridley was nowhere in sight.

You Know that cause???? The 3ds prevented a lot of things to happen, final smashes had to be changed characters cut ect

I think theres's three options for ridley.

1. A straight resized Ridley Based on one of the metroid games.

2. An Smash Original Design: For meet some design criteria, Ridley model could be altered to match some characters in therms of proportions. Wider arms, bigger body, smaller wings, and bigger Hands and Feets (All fighting games resize the hands and feets of barehand fighters for visualize better when the attack/hitbox occurs

3. A Ridley Clone: NOT Confuse with a character clone. For counterpoint the "a small Ridley would be inconsistent portrayal to his character, etc" argument, what if the Ridley we get it's not the actual Ridley, but a version exclusive to smash, while still having the big Ridley. I hate to aknowledge the existance of Other M, but thanks to that we know that Ridley CAN be cloned, so a genetic altered Ridley clone made by the Space Pirates could be in the realm of possibilities, while still having the big Ridley (he could appear as the Final Smash of the Small Rildey). As for "why would you create a smaller ridley clone?", It could have been created for stealth, combat and infiltration missions in small areas, plus it could also require less supplies for its creation considering his size.

no i want ridley not a fake ridley

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So assuming they actually announce Ridley on Tuesday or for this next Smash game, how would everyone feel if they did the Other M model. I honestly wouldn't care too much either way, just because he would finally be in the game. But if they were to make him a character they would try to make him look appropriate to scale and out of all his models, the Other M model would probably be the best one to scale to some degree. Would everyone be ok with him like that?

Those of us who supported him for Smash 4 did so knowing that if he got in, it'd be his Other M design. Now that Other M is history I can't pretend I wouldn't be a little bit disappointed with that design, but I'd get over it quickly, first step is that he needs to be in, maybe a future game can then give him a better design.

I fear any kind of size gimmick much more than the Other M design tbh, that's the one thing that could ruin his inclusion for me.

 

[Cosmic77]

Those of us who supported him for Smash 4 did so knowing that if he got in, it'd be his Other M design. Now that Other M is history I can't pretend I wouldn't be a little bit disappointed with that design, but I'd get over it quickly, first step is that he needs to be in, maybe a future game can then give him a better design.

I fear any kind of size gimmick much more than the Other M design tbh, that's the one thing that could ruin his inclusion for me.

Sadly, a size gimmick is something I could see Sakurai doing. Not because I'm assuming he'll think it's funny or anything, but because Sakurai has been making a lot of gimmicky characters lately. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we get a tank Ridley who's whole shtick is being insanely huge, incredibly slow, and extremely easy to hit.

I'm hoping Sakurai dials it down with Ridley and does something a little more standard, but I have to at least prepare myself for a situation where I get a playable Ridley with a terrible gimmick (and to a lesser extent, a terrible design).

 

[silver_blade001]

Honestly I don't think the design for Other M was the worst design ever, I mean it did its job in making an interesting looking creature. Now was that creature Ridley, Eh...

But what I kinda expect them to do if he got in was some sort of mix of all the Ridleys if they aren't going to use one of the newer designs. And the only reason I say that is because love it or hate it there is one good thing about the Other M Ridley, and that is it allows him to walk on all 4s for when he needs to, but still allowing him to have his hands free when he wants to attack. The way I see it, and I've said this back during Smash 4 times, one of the ways they could "shrink" Ridley is by making him crouch down and kinda crawl which he does in Other M. This would make it so he isn't so high as much as he is long. And when he attacks this causes him to stand and thus making his hitbox what we would expect. I think it would be a good way of making him keep his size without really changing him.

 

[osby]

Sadly, a size gimmick is something I could see Sakurai doing. Not because I'm assuming he'll think it's funny or anything, but because Sakurai has been making a lot of gimmicky characters lately. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we get a tank Ridley who's whole shtick is being insanely huge, incredibly slow, and extremely easy to hit.

I'm hoping Sakurai dials it down with Ridley and does something a little more standard, but I have to at least prepare myself for a situation where I get a playable Ridley with a terrible gimmick (and to a lesser extent, a terrible design).

Sakurai expressed concern about making Ridley too slow, so I don't think this will happen but.... I think a "not great" is to be expected. Fans are pushing a character, main developer said he can't do it for so long.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If ridley gets in I feel like they'll avoid using the other m design 1) because the game is hated by the majority of fans and 2) Other M ridley was already a boss character in smash 4, using a different design makes more sense to me in that regard.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I personally think they're going to use Proteus Ridley and completely de-roboticize him so he's fully organic.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well one factor of why Ridley has the best shot

From one user pointed out Ridley got a bigger role each smash

64 was background of stage

Level up

Melee was intro

Level up

Brawl had him as a boss (twice)

Level up

Smash 4 had him a shot a stage hazard boss that seemed almost as if playable.


What else could they level him up for.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I personally think they're going to use Proteus Ridley and completely de-roboticize him so he's fully organic.

I think it'll either be that, with Samus being updated to her samus returns design as well, or Metroid Prime 4 looks for them since both that and smash are seemingly being developed by Namco. And if they go for proteus ridley de-roboticized they could easy have the robotic one be an alternate costume which would be cool

 

[StrangeMann]

Found a great post on ResetEra and wanted to repost it here because it's pure gold:

Spoiler: Greatness

Vergeben was faking! It is over!

You said Ridley hype would never die while his fans still stanned for him! They STILL stan for him! They have edited their avatars stanning for him!

Are there no other leaks that tease Ridley?

Are there no other leaks?"

There was some teasing by some era mods. But it was just "Too Big" jokes! That's not substantial enough to go on!

Gather every tease into a collection! And make sure there's a timeline!

Deconfirmed so many times? What can fans do against such indifference?

Hype with me.

Hype until the end.

For disappointment and avatar quotes?

For Ridley! For the end of all this discussion!

E3 is coming

"Look to my coming at 9 AM PST on June 12. At noon EST, tune into the 2018 E3 Nintendo Direct."

Yes! The hype for Ridley shall burn in me, one last time!

Yes!

Let this be the hour, we crash Era together.

Fell Deeds awaken. Now for Villains. Now for Metroid! And a **********ing Space Dragon!

*HYPE*

Forth Smash Era!

Smashboards!

Smash Era hypes alone

r/smashbros: Not alone!

Ridley Stans! To Smash 5!

 

[Deleted member]

It’s baffling how he can say “oh we tried, and it was just too resource consuming”, and I’m starting to think he just tried making Ridley playable at normal, huge size. Which is dumb.

Seeing how the first thing Sakurai thought when Miyamoto asked for Pac-Man was just his Pizza shape instead of his bipedal design (which is his main design in almost everything as early as the 1980's arcade artwork) i wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Atleast if Ridley not in E3 at least it wouldn't be as bad as the shadow speculation

 

[osby]

Atleast if Ridley not in E3 at least it wouldn't be as bad as the shadow speculation

It's hard to top that one. I wonder if people are going to hold their breath until the game is out this time, if he's not revealed in three days.

 

[UltimateWario]

If ridley gets in I feel like they'll avoid using the other m design 1) because the game is hated by the majority of fans.

Problem is, Sakurai likes Other M (I doubt he actually played it or anything, but he specifically praised Sakamoto for it), and you know how he is. I think it’s likely Ridley, if he were to appear, will match Samus. So if the trailer opens up and Samus is sporting her awful smooth shoulders n’ tron lines, we should prepare for the “worst”.

 

[Sage of Ice]

sometimes i wonder if the people who are opposed to ridley think this is what we want in the game...

Spoiler: damn ur right he really is too big...

 

[AuraWielder]

Problem is, Sakurai likes Other M (I doubt he actually played it or anything, but he specifically praised Sakamoto for it), and you know how he is. I think it’s likely Ridley, if he were to appear, will match Samus. So if the trailer opens up and Samus is sporting her awful smooth shoulders n’ tron lines, we should prepare for the “worst”.

Sakurai liked Other M? Could we get a quote on that, because I don't remember seeing that anywhere.
No, the fact that Samus and Ridley uses their Other M appearances and Pyrosphere from Other M appears doesn't count, I mean a direct quote from the man. He could have just easily picked the Other M appearances since it was Samus's most recent game prior to SSB4.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Problem is, Sakurai likes Other M (I doubt he actually played it or anything, but he specifically praised Sakamoto for it), and you know how he is. I think it’s likely Ridley, if he were to appear, will match Samus. So if the trailer opens up and Samus is sporting her awful smooth shoulders n’ tron lines, we should prepare for the “worst”.

The smooth shoulders were the worst

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Sakurai liked Other M? Could we get a quote on that, because I don't remember seeing that anywhere.
No, the fact that Samus and Ridley uses their Other M appearances and Pyrosphere from Other M appears doesn't count, I mean a direct quote from the man. He could have just easily picked the Other M appearances since it was Samus's most recent game prior to SSB4.

I unfortunately do remember seeing a link/page awhile back about it being mentioned that Sakurai liked Other M, but not sure if I could find it now. Would have to try and look for it later when I have more time after work, but regardless, wouldn’t surprise me. It felt like he went the extra mile with having Other M content, and not just because it was the latest game at the time, tho could be wrong about him liking the game. It just makes it all the worse though regardless when factoring in how little content the Prime trilogy as a whole got.

 

[AuraWielder]

I unfortunately do remember seeing a link/page awhile back about it being mentioned that Sakurai liked Other M, but not sure if I could find it now. Would have to try and look for it later when I have more time after work, but regardless, wouldn’t surprise me. It felt like he went the extra mile with having Other M content, and not just because it was the latest game at the time, tho could be wrong about him liking the game. It just makes it all the worse though regardless when factoring in how little content the Prime trilogy as a whole got.

Personal opinion, but in the event that Sakurai does like Other M, that won't really be a factor in his decision to choose Ridley or not. Chances are, he's going to go with a design that'll make the most fans happy. Kinda like how Pac-Man was feared a bit for SSB4 because people were nervous that Sakurai would use the "Ghostly Adventures" re-design, but he insisted on only using the "classic" Pac-Man.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Problem is, Sakurai likes Other M (I doubt he actually played it or anything, but he specifically praised Sakamoto for it), and you know how he is. I think it’s likely Ridley, if he were to appear, will match Samus. So if the trailer opens up and Samus is sporting her awful smooth shoulders n’ tron lines, we should prepare for the “worst”.

If ridley is added though, it'll have been because of fan demand. Adding ridley while added the most hated version of him kinda goes against the whole "pleasing fans" thing

 

[IronTed]

Well one factor of why Ridley has the best shot

From one user pointed out Ridley got a bigger role each smash

64 was background of stage

Level up

Melee was intro

Level up

Brawl had him as a boss (twice)

Level up

Smash 4 had him a shot a stage hazard boss that seemed almost as if playable.


What else could they level him up for.

I disagree on him being "leveled up" in 4. Going from 2 separate boss appearances to a stage hazard confined to one version is definitely a down grade, even if Hazardley is somewhat more character-like.

 

[UltimateWario]

The smooth shoulders were the worst

It really is amazing how much one little change can bring down an entire design. I dislike the Other M design on the whole, and think both the classic design (Super/Prime Trilogy) and Samus Returns blow it out of the water, but it’s those GODDAMN SHOULDERS that make it so awful, and I don’t even know why. Another Metroid 2 Remake uses what is basically the Other M design with the Prime pauldrons and cannon barrel (so it’s not pointy) and it’s 100% more tolerable.

If we get the Samus Returns Varia Suit I’m going to be pleased as pudding. I like that one a lot aside from the cannon still being pointy.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

It really is amazing how much one little change can bring down an entire design. I dislike the Other M design on the whole, and think both the classic design (Super/Prime Trilogy) and Samus Returns blow it out of the water, but it’s those GODDAMN SHOULDERS that make it so awful, and I don’t even know why. Another Metroid 2 Remake uses what is basically the Other M design with the Prime pauldrons and cannon barrel (so it’s not pointy) and it’s 100% more tolerable.

If we get the Samus Returns Varia Suit I’m going to be pleased as pudding. I like that one a lot aside from the cannon still being pointy.

Prime 2/3 had the best suits in the whole series, Varia suit included. I like how Samus's helmet has 3 lines going across the whole thing instead of that triangle thing in the front, which I don't mind, I just prefer the lines. In Prime her shoulders are way too big imo but thats a minor issue. All in all I've never outright disliked any other suit than the suit from Other M.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I remember supporting Ridley before Smash 4. Was pretty bummed he wasn't in. I'm on the support train again but I'm assuming he doesn't make it back because I don't want to get burned again. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping he's at E3 though. Puts me in a weird spot where I'm trying to tell myself it's not happening but at the same time I still really want it to happen.

 

[IronWarrior94]

So was Jonneh the only Resetera mod who teased/hinted Ridley? If so, what's interesting is that he appeared on Gamexplain's Smash Prediction video yesterday and said he believes Ridley is going to be a full on playable character, and that he's "certain of it".
Needless to say, it will be really interesting if he's present during the Ridley video Gx is likely going to post tomorrow.