Social Lower Norfair

[meleebrawler]

Spoiler

Think Ridley would have any tips to help him intimidate Samus better?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Ridley would say lose the chains/constraints. At least then Samus would be forced to move instead of just standing there when Kraid comes at her. Of course it was done to make Samus look stoic and cool, but kinda made Kraid look less intimidating as a result.

Once again Ridley and Yu-Gi-Oh comes full circle.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Ridley_Prime]

So I was looking over some 2 framing stuff, going more in depth with it than I had before, and isn't really said much, but Ridley is one of the characters with some of the most 2 frame options in the game.

. Down angle Forward Tilt (can crouch)
. Down Tilt; leads into Forward Air or Flickshot/RAR Back Air after. Fastfall if they neutral airdodge and aerial again.
. Dash Attack (very spaced)
. Forward Smash
. Down Smash; facing either way. Charging it can make it easier to time like with Forward Smash.
. Down Air (sweetspot); fullhop at ledge or for off stage use, and ledge jump Down Air to punish ledge regrab and horizontal recoveries just above ledge. Can also shorthop OoS Dair at ledge to punish ledge hangers with no intangibility.
. Plasma Breath; while single fireball doesn't go out as far as fully charged Plasma, you can go like a step closer to the ledge with it where it'll 2 frame, putting you in a better position to walk up and do any of the other 2 frames at ledge. Fullhop Plasma (single or any variation of charge) helps with the timing too. Sometimes if you send them away far enough and you put out the fullhop single fireball, it can discourage jumps, allowing you to follow them low with an nair or fair after a crouch ledge slip. Can also full charge Plasma at the ledge, and as they jump over it and airdodge towards ledge, Wing Blitz down to spike them while snapping to it.
. Wing Blitz; any angle, like WB forward from a distance (around mid stage) or up and back angle from an appropriate position off stage, though WB down after a forward short/fullhop/Akuma Jump + ledge snap is most reliable, and you can double or triple jump if you need to reposition yourself, time it right, or be off stage while facing the ledge. While there's not much of a gap for it, the shockwave of WB down can still spike someone too if close enough to the ledge while they're hanging on it with no intangibility; just basically one little smitch behind from where you would be in position to snap to ledge from a WB down while standing. Can also WB down on the ground near ledge as a bait to get them to think you're trying to spike them, which may get them to pick a hasty ledge option (roll, etc) that you can punish.
* If you hold forward during pretty much any of the 2 frames except Wing Blitz (still being a roll distance away for plasma for positioning and so you can do the run skid method of trumping after), you can walk off and ledge trump as a mixup. Even if you don't get a followup attack from the trump in time like a reverse nair at mid % (mainly on big bodies), uair to catch a jump or movement above after, or bair at high %, the opponent will have less to no intangibility when they regrab the ledge which you can punish with something else powerful like an f-smash, down angle f-tilt, and such.


The timing and spacing for everything takes practice, and of course is opponent recovery dependent, but listening to their sound cues can help. While Down Smash can 2 frame as shown, it's arguably better for punishing ledge regrabs and covering most ledge getup & jablock tech chase or post-skewer options (and punishing rolls and spot dodges when otherwise on stage which can be spammed on overly aggressive opponents that don’t respect it) with how difficult its 2 frame timing is compared to the other moves, but definitely satisfying when you pull it off. You can still use Forward Smash, Wing Blitz down, Down Air, or Down Tilt > Forward Air or Flickshot/RAR Back Air to punish ledge regrab too though, as most kill a little earlier, but Down Smash has more range. Ridley can also ledgehop fair, nair, uair, and bair to get from ledge to stage with them, or ledgehop followed by any special while landing, and use said aerials or specials off stage at ledge (typically nair or a timed Wing Blitz) to 2 frame teleport recoveries. Bair becomes untechable from the side of stage starting around 147% without rage and 125% with max rage, whether from ledge hang or when you 2 frame them with it.

For those who don't know, a 2 frame punish is a mechanic that basically allows a potential edgeguarder to attack an opponent attempting to recover without leaving the stage, with some exceptions. When a character grabs the ledge, there are 2 frames of tangibility just before they grab the ledge and become intangible or invincible, and you punish them during that timeframe. Hence, 2 framing.

Part of Ridley's skill ceiling definitely seems to be how consistent you can do 2 frame punish kills. Down angle f-tilt is the easiest, but the others can come naturally too with practice, and finding out what character recoveries are easier to 2 frame. The spacies and Pit being good examples from what I've practiced so far, as well as Game & Watch by just listening to the beep from his up B.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Came across in my recommended list. Don’t know how I missed the set with Nair^ against Palu earlier, but he did really good there. I feel better about that matchup now, at least offline when you play neutral well. R.O.B. though still on the other hand…

 

[Minix0]

ROB made me pick up Lucario

 

[Crowviknight]

So I‘ve finished making a Ridley MU chart, let me know your thoughts on it!

https://i.imgur.com/l13NeVW.jpg

 

[Minix0]

So I‘ve finished making a Ridley MU chart, let me know your thoughts on it!

https://i.imgur.com/l13NeVW.jpg

I don't see how Ridley wins against Lucario. Its either even or is slightly disadvantageous. I'd put Little Mac among his best mu's, Little Mac can do absolutely nothing about a camping Ridley.

Move Jiggs and Cloud up to 60:40. Jiggs you could theoretically move up to 65:35, that mu is horrid for her, but at the bare minimum she should go up one. Plant should go down to even.

Although Chrom is an echo, he's easier to fight than Roy due to his recovery, so I'd put him in 55:45 or 60:40. Ike, Marth, and Lucina should all be in 55:45 or even. Maybe 60:40 for Ike. Counter is annoying but getting around it isn't impossible. Other than that Ridley outranges and gimps them all fairly hard. Corrin is def a winning mu.

Move Falcon up to 60:40 and Wolf down a tier. Simon is easily Ridley's top 5 worst mu's, approaching and getting off ledge is incredibly hard. They out range Ridley with a lot of moves too, truly a hellish mu. Kazuya is either even or advantageous imo, he can't do much if he stays in the air.

Mario, Robin, Falco, maybe Fox, Lucas, Tink, and Yoshi should all be moved up to even. Mewtwo should be even or 55:45. Maybe 60:40. Mewtwo dies so early and can't really gimp him or keep him out that well to my knowledge. Move Zelda down to the bottom tier, Ridley gets shut out hard by her.

ZSS is even or 45:55. I really don't think Ridley loses that hard against that many characters, I'd move a good amount of them up a tier (G&W, Diddy, Trainer is even, Greninja, Duck Hunt, Sheik, Bayo, Shulk is even too, I'd move up Sonic once or twice, and move Min Min up one). I'd move Palu up a tier and Yink down. That tier should have Zelda, ROB, and Yink, imo. As for Pythra, if they're together I'd move them up a tier, since Pyra is a very easy mu for Riddles (60:40), but Mythra is 45:55 or 40:60.

I feel like I went on for too long, but those are my thoughts.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I don't see how Ridley wins against Lucario. Its either even or is slightly disadvantageous. I'd put Little Mac among his best mu's, Little Mac can do absolutely nothing about a camping Ridley.

Move Jiggs and Cloud up to 60:40. Jiggs you could theoretically move up to 65:35, that mu is horrid for her, but at the bare minimum she should go up one. Plant should go down to even.

Although Chrom is an echo, he's easier to fight than Roy due to his recovery, so I'd put him in 55:45 or 60:40. Ike, Marth, and Lucina should all be in 55:45 or even. Maybe 60:40 for Ike. Counter is annoying but getting around it isn't impossible. Other than that Ridley outranges and gimps them all fairly hard. Corrin is def a winning mu.

Move Falcon up to 60:40 and Wolf down a tier. Simon is easily Ridley's top 5 worst mu's, approaching and getting off ledge is incredibly hard. They out range Ridley with a lot of moves too, truly a hellish mu. Kazuya is either even or advantageous imo, he can't do much if he stays in the air.

Mario, Robin, Falco, maybe Fox, Lucas, Tink, and Yoshi should all be moved up to even. Mewtwo should be even or 55:45. Maybe 60:40. Mewtwo dies so early and can't really gimp him or keep him out that well to my knowledge. Move Zelda down to the bottom tier, Ridley gets shut out hard by her.

ZSS is even or 45:55. I really don't think Ridley loses that hard against that many characters, I'd move a good amount of them up a tier (G&W, Diddy, Trainer is even, Greninja, Duck Hunt, Sheik, Bayo, Shulk is even too, I'd move up Sonic once or twice, and move Min Min up one). I'd move Palu up a tier and Yink down. That tier should have Zelda, ROB, and Yink, imo. As for Pythra, if they're together I'd move them up a tier, since Pyra is a very easy mu for Riddles (60:40), but Mythra is 45:55 or 40:60.

I feel like I went on for too long, but those are my thoughts.

From my experience, the Belmonts are more manageable on a Battlefield stage where you have plats to avoid their projectiles more easily as well as doing plat setups of your own. Regardless, axe throw shouldn't be hitting you when you can either cancel it out with nair, timingly advance towards Belmont and it misses, or double jump over if feeling bold. Holy cross you can react to by buffering nair similarly or either shield or jump over as you slowly approach (or react with plasma/jumping plasma so they have a projectile to watch out for), though like with Link boomerangs, watch out for it on the way back (if you grab and d-throw them at the right time, the invincibility frames of d-throw will protect you from the returning projectile, and can pummel while waiting). Holy water just try to shield as much as you can and SDI out of it when hit. The holy water ledge trap of theirs can easily be avoided by just ledge jumping over them, and the water itself doesn't do much damage when you're at ledge.

For their whip itself, mainly remember they can angle their f-smash up and down, so don’t be too obvious with shorthop approaches and ledge stalling. Their fair and bair they can angle as well, which is sort of a problem when trying to catch their landing with a spaced d-tilt since they may still be able to hit you even when crouched (along with maybe dropping an axe or holy water as mixups from above). Their u-tilt doesn't have a diagonal blind spot for you to get in on, but their u-smash and uair does, though still have to watch out for axe and uppercut mixups when getting in on them that way.

For some more on holy water, he can't B-reverse it. You can pummel to disable holy water and get a normal d-throw punish by doing so; just have to buffer 2 pummels like you normally would with later % grabs. If you buffer even one pummel it gives you a good time to react to the positioning of holy water, deciding whether you want to pummel again to disable the projectile or d-throw to get a combo going. If you aren't confident you can grab though, a drift in and out nair will work as a punish since it's disjointed enough to escape from holy water. Also, if holy water hits your shield point blank, you can grab Belmonts before they can act.

Otherwise, remember the spacings and openings + maneuverabilities in which you can plasma in neutral (while he's camping with his own projectiles) that makes it easier to approach him. Mainly do said approaches with pivot f-tilt and EDC d-tilt; while I mentioned the ways in which you can do so from the air, that's mainly if you're forced to like when you've been launched.

That aside, they're easy to gimp with their poor recovery. A tough matchup for sure with their range, but I'd rather fight a Belmont than other zoners out there.

We can punish Belmont's f-tilt with d-tilt OoS after they f-tilt your shield 3 times. On the 3rd if you shield you can d-tilt immediately but if you get hit with the sweetspot of f-tilt (the ball at the end) you can only punish after 4 f-tilts.

Holy water requires about 2 SDI inputs, which has 5 hitlag frames for you to perform said SDI's.

His smashes are whiff punished by Wing Blitz forward in terms of end lag.

Skewer > jab 2 > insert followup here, for covering delayed getup.

Our jab 1 starts faster than theirs, allowing us to get out of scramble situations better.

Rapid jab skewer punish also applies, shorthop skewer OoS in this case. His dash attack (6 hits and -26 on shield) crosses you up when shielded, so turn around quick and punish accordingly. Simon's other normals besides f-tilt are punished by our OoS aerials and shield grab up close. His jab 2/rapid jab finisher, dash attack, smashes, and ledge getup attack (-25) are also shield punished by u-tilt should he be at u-tilt > uair kill %. D-tilt 1 and 2 is even punished by Rid f-smash when shielded, and his f-smash is shield punished by most of our burst options. His landing aerials besides nair (7 hits) and dair are too safe on shield though, so reset there. Axe is safe on shield which you'll mostly want to be avoiding anyway (swat it away with an aerial if expecting it when you're doing a jump-in), partly because of its shield damage.

Kill confirm on Belmonts:
u-tilt > fullhop uair (93-99%)
u-tilt > double jump uair (100-107%)



Zelda is a trap character archetype and as such you need to fight her patiently. Not just with Ridley but as anyone, but Ridley isn't especially screwed by her I find. Approach slowly, or outcamp her (not so much with plasma as she counters that, though can do it when she’s off stage but be ready to shield her up B after like in other instances) and force her to approach you. She usually wants to camp because her approach game isn't very good, so play her game, while shielding her up B. Whenever you do approach though, try and bait her to use Nayru's Love before attacking. If correctly spaced, doing so will allow a free punish with skewer or any spaced move. When you've got her in a combo or tech chase, she may do a panic neutral B as a get-off-me tool, so be sure you space your moves as well as possible in those instances (tilts, aerials, etc) to mitigate being punished by it, or just delay your followup move altogether if you’re sure she’ll neutral B, and then continue your attack string. She may also neutral B as an OoS mixup where she does a jump OoS followed by pressing B, but her up B OoS is much more threatening. More on that later.

Din's Fire she'll mainly use to edgeguard (when neutral airdodging it while recovering high, be careful of her trying to aerial you after and try to react with an aerial of your own) but if she uses it on stage or from ledge jump, take the opportunity to close in on her with a burst option with how laggy it is (clanking with it while approaching if she uses it from further away) or even skewer if you time and space it right while closing in on her, but watch out if she switches back to Phantom Knight after the Din's Fire. She's also one of the characters that rapid jab skewer punish can apply to, but frame wise f-smash is a more consistent punish for hers, or up smash if you shield the rapid jab from behind and doesn't push you too far back. If you use SPR on her at all, don't do the jump release in hope for an aerial setup (unless you’re at higher % than her where she can mash out), as she can counter most attempts with her specials/aerials.


She's another character that needs to be fought on platform stages if anything, giving you more room to work with around the phantom knight, though when on plats you still need to shield the knight's attacks, or even if you're below a plat the knight is on since we're a big body; attack from above or below while she's charging the knight and occasionally rushdown her when she’s charging it as a mixup like when she’s off stage to keep her guessing (fullhop > dair is good in this instance as well as run off stage and uair if she's recovering & charging knight from above), and while at ledge do a normal getup when the knight strikes like with other ledge traps, or if being edgeguarded above stage, nair through Din's Fire and neutral airdodge the knight on your way down; can also plank temporarily by timing ledge drops to avoid the knight.

Be careful about simply jumping over the knight though, as she will expect that and meet you with an aerial kick. Wing Blitz backward can be used in that instance as a mixup read if you expect a jump, or to catch her sleeping when charging a knight on a platform if you're diagonally below her. Sometimes too it can be good to just do a ledge jump/fullhop or double jump plasma on her while avoiding the knight, as she may fade back and neutral B during an aerial approach which'll stop you in your tracks and launch you into the swing of the knight, and even if she does reflect the plasma, it won't matter while you're in the air.


If she has a knight ready and you're off stage, fastfall or airdodge while drifting forward to recover low and avoid the strike. Don’t always recover low though like in the case of her going off stage to dair spike; for clarification, the knight has six different charge stages, those being a kick, a punch, an outward slash when the sword first appears, an overhead slash when the shoulder pads appear (can catch a jump/ledge jump and if summoned off stage, it can hit you from underneath), an upward slash when the helmet appears (this can hit ledge and 2 frame, though only hits ledge hang if summoned closer than center stage and you can ledge drop on reaction to avoid being hit), and once the phantom is fully assembled at its 6th stage, Zelda can move and attack freely, while the knight momentarily remains still until attacking with a dashing upward slash.

Aside from interrupting Zelda's charge, the knight can also be destroyed by dealing enough damage with like projectiles such as our plasma breath, a fully charge plasma which can destroy a full charged knight if you think you can risk it depending on the timing and distance, but dodging it will be a better option when in doubt. Also too, she may try to counter with an up B before the full charged plasma comes out, but if you're positioned well enough to destroy the knight with it, can try it and see what she does.

If she's traveling through the air (like off stage) while charging the knight, it will catch onto ledges behind her, even if she doesn't land on the floor herself. She typically uses it to cover two bases when edgeguarding; the knight to cover ledge, while going low herself to catch a low recovery, but when recovering, you can defend yourself with attacks such as nair or uair (try to do so before she does something like neutral B that'll knock you back or worse send you into the path of the phantom strike) before using your up B to get back to the ledge, or if you use Wing Blitz early enough, will stop her in her tracks. Also watch out for her neutral B or nair possibly launching you to the side of the stage, and be ready to tech so you don't get stage spiked.

With Din's Fire, remember that it has a big delay from the spark and from the burst. Simply reacting with a jump, fastfall, or airdodge will do the trick. Zelda will try to play mind games by pretending to hit you directly but then cover low's or high's depending on if they think you are going to jump or fall, but Din's Fire is such a committal move, it's hard for them to use it optimally unless you're easy to read.


All and all, mix up how you deal with the knight and recovering against her; it's a mind game battle more than anything. Like you normally would in neutral for spacing your moves, stay within mid range or burst range where she can't reliably charge the knight and more often interrupt her. She can of course shorthop back and begin summoning it, but if you catch on, that won't always work either. With patience too you can close the gap between you and her when her knight is in end lag. Her neutral without knight is more limited. Limit your interactions with Zelda and her knight by retreating in general (dash shield if you're expecting an up B), going to the ledge, or going to a platform if on a stage with one, allowing you to choose your options more wisely while being harder to hit.

If there's a pause in between her summoning a knight again, can try and approach and see what she does, and even if she begins summoning one as you do so, she won't have time to charge it to a stronger form, resulting in either interrupting her with an attack or allowing for an attack trade between you and her at worst with you getting hit by a weaker knight as you hit her. A timed single or half charge plasma breath can occasionally interrupt her phantom charge too, but do so sparingly to avoid it being reflected back at you with Nayru's Love (though an even number of fireballs of 2 or 4 will cancel each other out which can allow you to punish with a burst option like SPR at max range) or her countering with an up B. Also if she's a bit far and begins a knight summon, can dash in and out to gather info on when she likes to unleash it.


Going more into her up B or Farore's Wind to emphasize how much you need to respect it, it's her fastest out of shield option, so be ready for it when she's shielding or you're pressuring said shield, followed by you shielding yourself in order to punish it; f-smash is pretty much a guaranteed punish after shielding. Even just dashing away can bait her to up B, which again you can punish by dash shielding. The first hit of her up B can be DI'd (want to DI away or DI down typically), so be warned that you may have to react to or anticipate this DI. She'll also use this as part of a tech chase combo (so don't miss tech) or mix up her options and movement when in disadvantage, arguably her greater weakness.

Because Zelda can control her air drift almost immediately after reappearing, she can use it to snipe you from high off stage and still be able to grab the ledge. When expecting this, try to either do a downward Wing Blitz asap when up high and at the angle where it can snap to ledge, or dair if you still have enough jumps to recover after. Like with neutral B, if her up B hits you off stage when low, it can send you upward into the path of a phantom strike. She can also use up B to snipe after knocking you off stage with a phantom strike in order to finish you, though since she can't recover herself afterward, she'll only go for it when significantly behind in % or during a last stock end of game situation. She can ledge cancel with her up B as well, typically to position herself for a quick edgeguard, so be ready.


With her specials covered, going a bit into her normals, keep in mind that her up angle f-tilt along with u-tilt are potent anti-airs similar to our own, and with how her u-tilt lingers, can sometimes even catch you while neutral airdodging down. You don't want to be right above her anyway when trying to recover on stage from up high because of her uair, so retreat to ledge when needed if nothing else or if you're not in a position for another vertical burst option like dair. Speaking of her uair, up tilt combos into it if she hits you with the back side of up tilt, and can also combo into her bair, but like with our up tilt > uair, its timing is tight and is % dependent. At mid % where uair won't kill, she may go for an up B instead, so try and airdodge that if possible. Be wary of directional airdodging her uair left or right when landing, because she can punish you after with her up B. When dealing with her uair onslaught from up high, keep an eye out on a possible up B finisher which you should try to airdodge.

Likewise, she can do d-tilt > fair at various percents, so be ready to DI. Thankfully, her d-tilt doesn't hit our ledge hang for her to sweetspot fair us after except during ledge hang hurtbox shifting (and perhaps on stages with slanted edges like Lylat or Yoshi's Story), though the d-tilt may 2 frame. On platform stages, she can summon a knight on a plat, and d-tilt you up to the other plat for you to get hit by it, so keep in mind. Her dash attack is one of the fastest in the game, so just remember she may use it to close the distance and quickly react with your d-tilt/f-tilt, nair/fair, jab, or shield. She can also dash attack with a fully charged phantom that will shield break along with f-smash, fair, or dair, so don't sit in your shield during this to avoid getting punished in the worst way. Even sitting in shield against her during the few seconds of respawn invincibility isn't a good idea, especially if she immediately starts charging a knight during her fresh stock. Move around during that time.


Going into aerials, her nair is a multi-purpose combo tool much like our own and thus her most damaging out of shield option, and is similarly weaker on the back hit. It can be a potent edgeguarding option due to being longlasting (can even trap you long enough for a prior fully charged knight to connect its attack), but again, try to act with a nair of your own if it comes to that. With good drift, her nair can combo into a lightning kick, but as a caveat, her nair can knock you backward instead of forward if she drifts too heavily, resulting in you avoiding a combo, and if she drifts too little, a nair followup will not be possible. Likewise, if they initially nair far away enough from you or if she moves by you too fast, it's possible that you can fall out of her nair altogether.

For other aerials, her lightning kicks on their own can combo into her up B for powerful shield pressure. Even the sour hit of those aerials you should tech so you don't get jablocked after and hit by a lightning kick which is easier for her against big bodies such as us. Her fair and bair sweetspots only last 1 frame and the hitboxes aren't very big, so a Zelda that don't have mastery over their moves will land the sour hit more often. Her fair/bair when used as a landing aerial can sometimes low profile a grab, so wouldn't try to shield grab after shielding those moves. When shielding her fair/bair, watch if she crosses up your shield with it and punish her end lag.

Her dair, aside from spiking off stage (watch out if she's up high and has summoned a knight to strike from ledge that'll put you into her path to spike, though this is harder for her to do at higher %), can send into jablock at lower %. Around 70% or so, her dair can combo into bair or up B, and around 90% and above, her dair combos into uair which will kill us. Don't jump too much to avoid pressure where she can get a free dair on us on stage and sometimes send us into a knight's path. Like our uair, hers can hit someone on a top platform from a shorthop, and be used to hit multiple times with a lower plat. It can combo out of her up throw too, but is very weight and % dependent. Needless to say, her uair can combo off a phantom strike too with her being below you, but usually bair is a more desirable followup from phantom.


Her f-smash is a multi-hit that you don't want to try and spot dodge, or neutral getup from ledge or ledge jump like if she's charging it. If spaced right, you can punish it with skewer after shielding, though frame-wise is not a true punish. It's similar to our f-smash in having relatively low end lag, so respect it. If she prepares an f-smash along with a phantom strike when edgeguarding you, stay below for awhile, and plank her with uair underneath if possible. Her up smash may be the least used. It doesn't even hit platforms until the very last hit and one of her laggiest moves. Still, you don't want to challenge it with something like our dair, and it comes out of shield as fast as her lightning kicks, so you'll want to space your tilts on her shield as usual. Her down smash is fast however, and a fast edgeguard option when standing at the ledge, so recover low if you expect it, or up B poke if feeling lucky. Her d-smash has a good launch angle but not very much knockback, so is possible to survive it, but watch out for when she uses it on stage which can lead to tech situations, and mixup your tech movement. D-smash is also the fastest way for her to launch you off stage into the swing of phantom, and has a 20% chance of causing tripping.

For her grab game, respect her pivot grab and don't make committal approaches too often like if she's backed into a corner or you face a Zelda that's competent at grabs. If you wait to shield a fully charged phantom, her grabbing will guarantee that you get hit by it. Her grab itself is slow though. Her f-throw can combo off a fully charged phantom, her d-throw is her bnb combo like most characters which you can DI but mix it up (such as DI'ing in instead of away to make her fair/bair hit on sour instead of sweetspot, and also keep in mind her d-throw gives you little time to react to tech when it launches you on a lower platform), her up throw can combo into fullhop nair and situationally uair as mentioned as well as a setup for potential kills at top platforms like with our up throw, and her up and back throws are kill throws at high %. Up throw killing though depends on weight, stage blastzone ceiling height, and DI, but if she uses up throw earlier to combo, it'll stale it. Her back throw kills earlier with that said, so remember if you're at high % and she's cornered which may be intentional for her to grab and b-throw you, though if she uses b-throw earlier for an attempted gimp, kill, or sending into a knight's path, it'll stale.


With how her recovery works as a trap character (and keeping you from going off stage against her with her knight and Nayru's Love), ledge trapping is preferable to edgeguarding her, though keep in mind she can do a ledgehop aerial such as nair, side B from off stage, and plank with her uair or up B poke like us to keep you on your toes while attempting to ledgetrap, so don't let those catch you off guard; her up B poke also leaves herself more exposed to a strong attack like when we do ours, so punish when possible. Found it's also good to face away from ledge while shielding her up B, and then up smash OoS, f-tilt/f-air to cover ledge roll, etc, although if she does an up B poke around ledge, a spaced 2-frame can punish it. All of her normals besides d-tilt are punishable by our nair OoS, though her landing aerials are too safe on shield, so neutral reset there. Her neutral B's similarly punishable if shielded up close, but gotta hold till the end of the move. Her rapid jab finisher, u-smash, point-blank neutral B, up B, and ledge getup attack are also shield punished by u-tilt should she be at u-tilt > uair kill %.

If she's nearby charging a knight and you're shielding, can spot dodge if you time it right, roll behind her before she finishes getting her knight out, or perhaps better yet, fullhop or DJ OoS and do a fastfall landing aerial on her from above; namely with nair, uair, dair, skewer fastfall if lucky, bair if facing backwards, some falling plasma, or fullhop into a fastall empty landing for a tomahawk grab. F-air may also be possible, but might be harder to time in this instance as a multi-hit move.

* Still pay attention as to what charge state her knight is in when you decide to jump or otherwise evade it, because if she charges it to one of the higher states when you decide to wait and jump, it'll be a lot harder to dodge the strike due to the knight having more reach in its attack the more it's charged up. This mainly applies if you’re a bit further away from her and not close up. See the knight’s hitboxes here to get an idea, where you normally have to do at least a double jump (not so much IDJ) to get over the fully charged strike.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Her floatiness also makes it easier to catch her landings with an attack, whether it's timing our anti-airs or just doing dash attack or one of our smashes when she lands next to you from ledge or something. If she ledge jumps though, shield if you expect a quick knight summon, anti-air if you expect an aerial, or if she drifts toward you, expect a Nayru’s Love which you can punish with f-smash if quick enough or otherwise just shield and then punish (shorthop SPR OoS is a more true punish since her neutral B's -25 on shield, along with her u-smash and ledge getup attack for that matter). 2 framing her tends to work best by doing off stage attacks around the ledge; doing said attacks after falling next to the ledge, or ledge drop/ledgehop > aerial/special. Basically, her disadvantage is pretty bad with how slow she falls as a floaty. She may try to circumvent this with fastfall + neutral airdodge, so pay attention to her player’s habits, and while there is the get-off-me options of her Nayru's Love and lightning kicks, it'll still be something that'll get her punished for trying if you read her right.

p.s. You don’t really get to turn your brain off with plasma against her when she’s at ledge in any situation, as you’re always at risk of getting reversaled by an aggressive up B which forces you to play reactionary at all times. Neutral B her in advantage only as a mixup.

Zelda multihits- f-smash (5 hits), u-smash (7 hits), nair (5 hits), neutral B (4 hits), d-throw (5 hits)

Her fair, bair, uair, and up B are whiff punished by Wing Blitz forward in terms of end lag.

Skewer > d-tilt > insert followup here, for covering delayed getup.

Ridley kill confirm on Zelda:
u-tilt > fullhop uair (80-85%)
u-tilt > double jump uair (86-91%)

Update: With the revelation of Slingshot, figured it would be a good idea to list some of what options Zelda has with it, so you can have an idea of what moves to expect from her when suspecting a Slingshot following her pressuring your shield.

Flickshot Nayru's Love, along with some of her aerials like nair. Holdshot knight summon, as well as Holdshot Lightning Kick. For Fullshot, maybe Din's Fire.

Basically, don't press forward against her when you're in shield, which goes back to what I said earlier about choosing your battles during the match. You'll have to be more patient than her at times regardless of Slingshot. Also, after safely attacking her shield, is still recommend you shield yourself after rather than do a Slingshot tactic, unless you’re really confident you can maneuver around her up B with one. No matter how far back you retreat with Slingshot options though, Farore’s Wind can still track you if you’re not careful. Still gotta keep an eye on the knight too even if you use Slingshot as a neutral mixup.


For a more condensed version of the matchup, also including some info not covered above: Zelda relies on retreating, a lot of dash backs. The main goal is to understand how she uses knight and respect her u-tilt. Other retreating options she uses are f-smash and pivot grab.

During knight charge, as soon as the helmet is on (semi-final stage), Zelda can't release it early or mix up her timing; only before the helmet appears.

In neutral, being out of knight's range will usually be better than shielding (not only do you want to conserve shield health but she can punish shield with grab during the final charge phase where she gets to move around unless you're much further away from her) or jumping over (which she can punish with an aerial or anti-air). Even if further away, while the knight's in end lag, this is your opportunity to close the gap since her neutral becomes a lot worse without it. Once you understand how she uses knight, her best move by far is u-tilt which combos into itself and aerials.

Ledgetrapping is when she's at her strongest. Phase 4 and 5 of the knight can hit ledge hang. To avoid ledgetraps, regrab the ledge; Zelda doesn't cover the regrab due to the knight forcing a timed ledge option. Can also time a getup attack to get through the knight's attack with intangibility. Her f-smash is another ledgetrap move to watch out for, as it covers everything but ledge hanging and ledge jump, tho knight covers those options.

During advantage, watch how she uses knight to cover herself while landing, even if she's off stage. She's a sitting duck while charging it during disadvantage though, so can either punish her during it or patiently wait it out. Nayru's Love is another landing option she uses during disadvantage of course, so stay mid ranged.



I've really studied the Zelda matchup particularly because of some I know that use her, but once you know how to fight her which is different from most others (having to respect more of her attacks), she's not too bad. I mostly agree with your assessments overall, especially on ZSS. I'd much rather fight her than regular Samus. It's just with ZSS, she'll spend most of her time in the air, so camp her from the ground with your anti-airs rather than chase her and avoid her nair and zair combo starters, having your up tilt, up angle f-tilt, up smash, nair, and such ready, along with d-tilt to cover her overextensions; otherwise just knowing how to react to Flip Jump/Kick with practice or reading it when she’s in disadvantage, along with her dair to some extent. Back angle Wing Blitz works surprisingly well at catching her jumps as a read too, along with others that have a similarly high jump height with how that angle WB can overshoot. Zelda too since she’s a floaty.


For more on Flip Jump, it has intangibility on frames 3 through 12. Visually, it ends when she reaches the apex of her flip, is on her way down, and around when you start seeing the blue afterimages (aka when she can kick), so don’t attack when her flip is on the way up. Timely abuse Ridley up smash and uair against it; if you're not early enough, then patiently wait till near the end of it and punish. Remember too that ZSS loses Flip Jump after using it until she touches the ground, which can be useful in off stage situations where she may be gimped, though edgeguard her quickly since she has two tethers to work with. If she tethers, can try and do an off-stage or Crouch Ledge Slip nair/fair on her, or SPR/jump plasma if she tethers high, depending. She can easily jump over charged Plasma with Flip Jump, so be careful with it, using one or two fireballs as bait, or Flickshot Plasma when retreating if you have room. Can shield Flip Kick, but with how safe it is on shield, she'll be away before you can punish as she bounces off with it. Reading/evading is the better option with how much end lag it has. In other words, pay attention to her panic options. If it's not Flip Jump, it may be dair, but that at least is more reactable, and easily punished when dodged. Dair is arguably easier to bait out too, though note it can hit you under a platform, so still shield it there. Surprisingly, she can’t airdodge fastfall too well, making her disadvantage pretty linear when she doesn’t have Flip Jump available, and is otherwise forced to dair or something.

Other things to note about Flip Jump/Kick:
. Normally if she’s facing your way, she flips forward, and if she’s facing backward, she flips away. If the player taps backward at the beginning of the move however, she'll flip backward. The same thing happens with the kick, as the player can choose if she kicks forward or backward. This is effective for mind games, but don't let it get in your head much. Simply anticipate Flip Jump when she's in disadvantage regardless of the direction it may travel. Also note if you're in contact with her at the end of the move's arc, will be hit automatically without the player's input (buried if you're grounded), so never act slowly around it.
. Can combo into a spike out of her nair, killing and comboing at about 35-75% on most stages.
. If you're buried by the move, it can lead into a Boost Kick at higher percents for early kills.
. With good mashing, you can mash out of Flip Jump’s bury until around 110%.
. Aside from Flip Jump's uses during advantage and trying to get out of disadvantage, she may use it as an approach in neutral. The player can run towards you and when they are a short distance away, use Flip Jump and attack from behind, so don't be caught off guard. They can hold back some after the initial flip to slow down their momentum too and affect where they land.
. In some instances when she uses Flip Jump to get out of disadvantage like when being combo'd or tech chased, it'll be harder to react and punish compared to when you can anticipate her doing it from ledge (above ledge as a high recovery or below ledge as a low recovery + burying you). In this situation, it can be easier to just let the Flip Jump go and try to intercept the landing instead. Same with when she uses it high in the air and you’re not nearby to punish it (be realistic on when you can chase her in the air with your average air speed and jump height). Frame trapping 101.

After punishing a Flip Jump, it’s time to take advantage. ZSS players usually like to drift away with their incredible airspeed and space you out with a zair. Be sure to read for jumps too; jumps are one of their most valuable tools while landing along with the stall and fall dair when you get too close. It's relatively quick and has low landing lag, so read and intercept it with an up smash or up tilt. SPR is also a good option, albeit slower than a lot of other options available in the scenario. It’s good for closing stocks and dragging ZSS to ledge, but you are giving them their jump and Flip back when doing this, so use at your own risk.

At any rate, it's optimal to get ZSS off stage after intercepting Flip Jump; fullhop nair when they use it to recover high for instance. Because of her exploitable recovery and lack of Flip Jump, our nair is an amazing tool for further edgeguarding them, and Plasma. These should be your main two options when dealing with edgeguarding ZSS. You should still remember that she has 2 tethers and a wall jump though, so be sure to plan what you’re going to do first. When in a situation where you can ledgetrap her, it’s pretty important to remember all her drop from ledge options, especially ledge drop > jump > zair, and Flip Kick as they are among her safest and hardest to beat ledge options due to their speed and overall safety.

It’s usually a good idea to use a lot of active, large, or disjointed moves to snuff out her safer options like ledgedrop zair. ZSS has some pretty quick regular getup options, but they can be read and punished with a large or active move. Overall, advantage is about squeezing everything you can out of a small punish and hopefully get an early kill.


Aside from her nair and zair, watch out for her Blaster combo starters. Her d-smash/Blaster > up B Boost Kick kills us around 90%. If you see her charging her Blaster, can shield it if you do a dash shield, then punish with an OoS option. If they wall you out with zair's, something like a Wing Blitz forward from mid stage can be a decent mixup option to catch their landing. It can also go through Blaster, though wouldn’t rely too much on the timing. Our tilts, nair, bair, and even a single plasma beats out her Blaster too.

She has hard to punish shield pressure (even with her rising aerial, but parries help to deal with that) but little shield damage and poke (aside from her fair which can poke due to being a 2-hit move and may need to shield tilt that), so can shield well against ZSS aside from Blaster and tether grab which is more reactable than regular Samus's; move around though. Most of what ZSS can do on shield is still relatively safe, especially zair and nair. If she tries to go for an aerial, you can react with an up smash or nair OoS as a get-off-me for rising aerials (her fair and bair). Do not try to up smash ZSS’s nair OoS however, especially a landing nair. It's hugely disjointed and safe. Also watch for her jabbing on your shield, as it's difficult to punish and spammable after a landing aerial due to it being a frame 1 move, though her jab 3 you can punish well. Regardless, if she bounces off your shield with Flip Jump, you can follow her aerial movement with an OoS aerial if quick enough.

* Also watch out for Boost Kick OoS, and to DI the move, mostly DI down and in during the multi-hits, but the higher up you are when hit by her up B, the further out you must DI. DI out on the first hit may help you fall out of it.

As hyped as her combo game is, she doesn't really have that much true combos. Her best way of combo'ing like with us is off of tech chases. Techroll away leaves her with the least options to potentially punish with if you have space, but mix it up. Also mixup your landing with her juggling game. Watch out for her d-smash at ledge, or if you’re under a platform that she’s on and shield it there.

Plasma Whip can hit you away or hit you over her head for juggling if she holds it. Depending on how you evade her grab, she may side B to mix it up; best to jump over both, but shield both air side B and zair.

If she’s a stock ahead or you’re on your last stock, try to avoid recovering low or be wary about it since she can beat or trade with our up B via Flip Kick, dair, and such. Certain stages will make it harder to land a spike during our vertical up B though.


Last but not least, the player will undoubtedly adapt to your punishes and mixups. For example, if a smart ZSS starts noticing that you're countering Flip Jump as a recovery move, they may recover with it later to mix you up, or simply recover low with a tether or Boost Kick. There are more ways that ZSS can mix up her options, as she has a well versatile kit that can cover her weak points decently. The way a ZSS reacts to you abusing her habits varies player to player, so it’s important to never stop paying attention to what she does or what options or habits the ZSS shows. Be sure to predict a change in habits, like in the example with the ZSS changing their Flip Jump habits. Be cautious when you know or think that the ZSS will change their habits after you capitalize on them. Just be sure to remember, that before you run in, a lot of her moves can substitute for each other in some scenarios, a good example being how zair can substitute for Blaster as a shield pressure/poking/combo/ledgetrap tool.

Overall, disadvantage against ZSS is rough and hard to break out of. Breaking out of combos is tough, considering the fast moves, movement speed, and large disjointed hitboxes that she has, as well as things like her jab forcing a tech for d-smash tech chases. We don’t have any fast combo breakers that can really get us out of her combos, so it’s usually optimal to try and break out of combos with DI and SDI mixups. Landing is usually difficult, but there are options. They are relatively unsafe and slow through, like going to ledge or covering your landing with a disjointed aerial while drifting back. Recovering is not very difficult though, with recovering low being optimal since ZSS can’t really go deep and edgeguard, but you should be wary that if you do, she can use her spiking dair as mentioned.

While she can rack up damage on us pretty easily, she struggles to kill without a stun to a smash attack or Boost Kick, so at high percent, keep your head and stay focused.

ZSS prefers to set up ledgetraps as opposed to edgeguards. None of her moves can hit you on ledge, but getting up is a different story. Her quick, low lag, big hitboxes make it hard to get back on stage. The biggest moves to watch out for are her grab, side B, and Blaster. They can all lead to another ledgetrap situation or even a kill in side B and Blaster's case. The short range of her aerials (barring nair) makes our ledge jump to nair a decently safe option, because it can snuff out some aerial options and provides decent protection, but it's important to watch for her up smash, nair, and other active aerials like fair. It’s important to mix up your ledge game too, with ledge drop > jump > fair, and whatnot. It just depends on the player and their habits, so be sure to pay attention, and above all, stay calm.

Misc:
ZSS multihits- f-smash (2 hits), u-smash (~6 hits), fair (2 hits), side B (5 hits)

Aside from maybe grab, her u-tilt, f-smash, nair, and Flip Kick are whiff punished by Wing Blitz forward in terms of end lag.

Skewer > d-tilt > insert followup here, for covering delayed getup.

With ZSS, can also move a lot and challenge her in the air, especially when she goes for flip kick (given that you're not off stage) because if you try challenging it from the ground, miss, and get hit you're buried but if you're in the air you won't be buried. Still tech it though.


ZSS's normals and side B are punished by our OoS aerials and shield grab, as is point-blank neutral B. Her jab 3 is punished by shorthop SPR OoS, and her dash attack (-36) will cross you up when shielded, so quickly turn around and punish accordingly with f-smash or maybe Skewer (shorthop turnaround Skewer OoS for better frame advantage & positioning). U-tilt, dash attack, f-smash, and ledge getup attack can even be punished by our f-smash when shielded (turnaround f-smash in dash attack's case).

Her landing aerials besides dair are too safe on shield to punish though, so go for a neutral reset there. The Flip Jump if she does the kick is punishable on shield with whatever, but have to react quick and catch her landing. It's a matter of knowing or reacting to the direction she drifts after hitting your shield with it.

Her dash attack (dash back first if she crosses you up) & flip kick (dash whatever direction she's drifting) are also shield punishable by d-smash. Her jab 1/2/3, u-tilt, dash attack, f-smash, Flip Kick, and ledge getup attack are also shield punished by u-tilt should she be at u-tilt > uair kill %. Her ledge getup attack is also punished by f-smash OoS.

Her grab is 15 frames in startup and 33 frames in end lag, allowing a potential whiff punish with Skewer, Wing Blitz forward, and such, and since her shield grab would be frame 19, could dash attack her shield and still spot-dodge it or jump, or mix in shield jumping or Double Shield Cancel fullhop to bait a whiff. Like regular Samus though, watch out for up B as her fastest possible OoS option, and only dash attack her shield if you expect her to go for a grab.

Also, zair's 30 frames of end lag allows you to SPR after if you were stuffed out by it before. Mainly zair from a fullhop, as shorthop zair would cancel the end lag when they go to ground.

Ridley kill confirm on ZSS:
u-tilt -> fullhop uair (78-82%)
u-tilt -> double jump uair (83-86%)

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Minix0 ... And then there's Mezcaul who makes the Zelda matchup look easy. :u

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Maybe a quick off stage SPR can be good for catching her recovery, or he just got lucky there. Either way, cool set.

Other recent epic highlights I forgot to post earlier.

 

[Minix0]

Minix0 ... And then there's Mezcaul who makes the Zelda matchup look easy. :u

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Maybe a quick off stage SPR can be good for catching her recovery, or he just got lucky there. Either way, cool set.

Other recent epic highlights I forgot to post earlier.

To be fair that Zelda was playing pretty badly too.

But yeah, Mezcaul be reppin'. Isn't he the best Ridley behind Nair?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

To be fair that Zelda was playing pretty badly too.

But yeah, Mezcaul be reppin'. Isn't he the best Ridley behind Nair?

That is a good Zelda player, but they just had a bad game, yeah. Merely posted as proof of concept that she can be outplayed by Ridley, although not consistently to that extent obviously, but still.

I don't know whose generally considered the 2nd best, but Mezcaul is the top Ridley of France.

 

[IsmaR]

Handshake/final shot of the last trailer: "Look at how far this game has come after all these years, and how incredible it was that they could make this all happen."

My brain:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Garo]

He's so happy to get another new victim.

Metroid Dread is right around the corner and I've thankfully managed to avoid any "unofficial" spoilers. Interesting to see if the big guy makes some kind of appearance.

 

[CamZilla94]

I feel so bad everytime i forget about this place and my Ridley brethren. Hope everyone's been doing well this past year!

 

[Ridley_Prime]

After testing it, you can definitely do a jump release with SPR sooner than you could before, allowing you to do aerial followups a bit faster. This will also make mashing out of the move harder for the opponent since you can act sooner now. A decent buff, and I was still expecting nothing like usual.

 

[Diem]

View attachment 334816

After testing it, you can definitely do a jump release with SPR sooner than you could before, allowing you to do aerial followups a bit faster. This will also make mashing out of the move harder for the opponent since you can act sooner now. A decent buff, and I was still expecting nothing like usual.

Awesome, good to hear that this was actually a change that has some utility as opposed to one of those changes that's entirely pointless. It's not much, but as long as it's something somewhat useful, it's welcome.

 

[Garo]

Sora feels super fun. I sometimes see people complaining about how Ridley plays, wanting him to have more of an aerial presence. I imagine Sora's a bit like how they wanted Ridley to play, floating offstage for as long as he wants, throwing out aerials and coming back even from the far corners of the screen.

Anyone else think Space Pirate Rush feels better? Beyond the faster jump release I mean. I've not seen any hard data yet, so this could be placebo, but the transition from slamming to dragging seems faster (I guess the patch note can be interpreted to say this), and the automatic throw feels like it comes out immediately as you reach the edge instead of coming to a halt first.

 

[Aligo]

Sora feels super fun. I sometimes see people complaining about how Ridley plays, wanting him to have more of an aerial presence. I imagine Sora's a bit like how they wanted Ridley to play, floating offstage for as long as he wants, throwing out aerials and coming back even from the far corners of the screen.

Anyone else think Space Pirate Rush feels better? Beyond the faster jump release I mean. I've not seen any hard data yet, so this could be placebo, but the transition from slamming to dragging seems faster (I guess the patch note can be interpreted to say this), and the automatic throw feels like it comes out immediately as you reach the edge instead of coming to a halt first.

To throw my hat into the ring, the only thing I think Ridley really lacks is a satisfying forward air. Fire breath like brawl charizard would have been really cool.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Sora feels super fun. I sometimes see people complaining about how Ridley plays, wanting him to have more of an aerial presence. I imagine Sora's a bit like how they wanted Ridley to play, floating offstage for as long as he wants, throwing out aerials and coming back even from the far corners of the screen.

Anyone else think Space Pirate Rush feels better? Beyond the faster jump release I mean. I've not seen any hard data yet, so this could be placebo, but the transition from slamming to dragging seems faster (I guess the patch note can be interpreted to say this), and the automatic throw feels like it comes out immediately as you reach the edge instead of coming to a halt first.

If it helps, saw some screenshots that were taken before and after the patch to visualize exactly how much space is saved before releasing SPR normally. The colored layer is post patch, the black and white layer is pre patch.

Basically, yeah, the end throw part of SPR does happen sooner.

And after catching someone with SPR, simply hold B or jump to buffer instant jump release. Aside from it being faster with the 13.0 changes, it’s also better that way than trying to mash for an early release.

 

[StormC]

Just wanted to once again thank all Ridley fans for supporting the character through thick and thin. After all these years of Ultimate speculation his inclusion almost seems quaint now, but I really feel like his inclusion was the herald that Ultimate would be something special - and even then it exceeded my expectations. Although I was more of a K. Rool supporter, Ridley to me is a core part of the Ridley/K. Rool/Banjo pillars of hype and Ultimate would be a lesser game with any of them missing. I'm pretty confident Ridley will return come next Smash, and it'll be just as exciting to see him again.

Pirates forever. Never say too big.

 

[Constantini]

I stuck to Rids from day 1, although I found I came to a point where I had squeezed every drop of juice I could out of him, in terms of tech/mu knowledge etc. and it started to get a bit stale. Overall, he's style the most hype addition to SSBU and I love him, but I still constantly find myself scratching my head with nintendo's choice to design his Dair and down B the way they are. Really makes me wonder how much better/more fun he could be with a complete kit, because he's basically missing two moves lol.

I also did enjoy him much more before the DLC characters. They're all really annoying ass MU's for ridley. Not talking about relative difficulty or anything, just plain old annoying and ''I'd rather not be fighting this character''. Well, I can't wait to see what Ridley gets in the next smash game!

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Skewer has its problems, but it’s only really considered useless by those who aren’t good at getting reads or tech chases (more commonly the former). Dair… Well again, the side B jump release or fullhop off stage setups work well for it.

It’s not like Ganondorf who has up tilt and neutral B as two very arguably useless moves.

 

[IsmaR]

Didn't expect so many bug fix updates so quickly for Metroid Dread.

Just finished a playthrough yesterday skipping nearly 8 major upgrades (namely Gravity Suit), surprisingly none of the crucial sequence breaks/glitches got touched.

I read some interesting Dread stuff from insiders™ regarding content (an area) being potentially cut despite being in a nearly finished state, as well as some reasoning that

Spoiler: Dread spoiler

The reason that Ridley apparently wasn't included was so as to not have him outshine the new villains

Potential for DLC was also thrown as "not impossible but would take a lot of work." Grain of salt and all that aside, I am curious since it was brought up that the scope during development was downsized in order to meet the deadline. I could see something like maybe some quality of life features (boss rush, Fusion mode difficulty not being tied to an amiibo, etc.) down the line at most, as much as I would love to see more Metroid before Prime 4 comes out (or even future 2D titles).

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Didn't expect so many bug fix updates so quickly for Metroid Dread.

Just finished a playthrough yesterday skipping nearly 8 major upgrades (namely Gravity Suit), surprisingly none of the crucial sequence breaks/glitches got touched.

I read some interesting Dread stuff from insiders™ regarding content (an area) being potentially cut despite being in a nearly finished state, as well as some reasoning that

Spoiler: Dread spoiler

The reason that Ridley apparently wasn't included was so as to not have him outshine the new villains

Potential for DLC was also thrown as "not impossible but would take a lot of work." Grain of salt and all that aside, I am curious since it was brought up that the scope during development was downsized in order to meet the deadline. I could see something like maybe some quality of life features (boss rush, Fusion mode difficulty not being tied to an amiibo, etc.) down the line at most, as much as I would love to see more Metroid before Prime 4 comes out (or even future 2D titles).

Are you able to give a source on that insider stuff or is it confidential? Either way,

Spoiler

I don't think a Ridley fight would've outshined Raven Beak, even if he was a penultimate boss like he usually is. Besides that, it would've been hard to top the Samus Returns encounter where he was a final boss with three phases just like Raven Beak. Mercury already went all out with Rid there. For both the "fanservice bosses" (Ridley in SR and Kraid in Dread respectively), they did a good enough job in making them as challenging as they should be for a modern sidescroller experience. Also too, I feel Storm Missiles might've made a Ridley fight in Dread a bit too easy compared to how challenging he was under SR's engine. At least Raven Beak during the 2nd phase of his fight was given some Ridley esque flying melee moves as a nod I guess.

I know Ridley won't always make an appearance, and his "absence" in Dread doesn't demoralize me or anything, but now more than ever I'd have to say it would be completely backwards for him to finally become playable in Smash but then never appear in Metroid as an enemy again; speaking in the event of him not being in MP4 or another future game, etc. The general Metroid fans who gatekeep him because they're tired of him don't really matter because devs will do what they want at the end of the day, but still.

Yeah, I'd be fine with a bare minimum content update for Dread if nothing else. Surprised boss rush was never a thing in Mercury's Metroids when they had one for Castlevania LoS: MoF, but Nintendo likely gave them a stricter deadline.

 

[meleebrawler]

Are you able to give a source on that insider stuff or is it confidential? Either way,

Spoiler

I don't think a Ridley fight would've outshined Raven Beak, even if he was a penultimate boss like he usually is. Besides that, it would've been hard to top the Samus Returns encounter where he was a final boss with three phases just like Raven Beak. Mercury already went all out with Rid there. For both the "fanservice bosses" (Ridley in SR and Kraid in Dread respectively), they did a good enough job in making them as challenging as they should be for a modern sidescroller experience. Also too, I feel Storm Missiles might've made a Ridley fight in Dread a bit too easy compared to how challenging he was under SR's engine. At least Raven Beak during the 2nd phase of his fight was given some Ridley esque flying melee moves as a nod I guess.

I know Ridley won't always make an appearance, and his "absence" in Dread doesn't demoralize me or anything, but now more than ever I'd have to say it would be completely backwards for him to finally become playable in Smash but then never appear in Metroid as an enemy again; speaking in the event of him not being in MP4 or another future game, etc. The general Metroid fans who gatekeep him because they're tired of him don't really matter because devs will do what they want at the end of the day, but still.

Yeah, I'd be fine with a bare minimum content update for Dread if nothing else. Surprised boss rush was never a thing in Mercury's Metroids when they had one for Castlevania LoS: MoF, but Nintendo likely gave them a stricter deadline.

Spoiler

Post-Fusion, the only possible traces of Ridley left are in the Federation's hands, or more specifically the bioweapon splinter faction within it. The way I would bring Ridley back at this point would be to make him an A.I the same way Adam was, with his personality but not really his memories, at least at first (just say Samus to him three times to fix that).

But the faction crazy enough to do something like that would still keep tight leashes on him to prevent him from acting out in any way. So who would be interested in letting him loose and maybe having him as an ally? Enter MB from Other M, from what we could see her body was still mostly in one piece and the faction's leader could pull some strings to get enough of her back to rebuild her. The two could make an interesting pair as an "evil" foil to Samus and Adam, especially if MB can find her own Chozo battle armor and get some combat training in.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Others have also pointed out the leftover metal claw on SR388 after Samus Returns. Doubtful the Federation would ignore it when they revisit the planet with Samus prior to Fusion. The claw could either contain some of Ridley's DNA in it or be used as a blueprint for having another mechanized Ridley or something.

Back to Smash though, a decent guide was made on plasma recently. It's actually one of our most complex moves far as knowing when to use at the right times. It's no secret that Ridley's don't make optimal use of it except for edgeguarding/ledgetrapping.

 

[Diem]

Back to Smash though, a decent guide was made on plasma recently. It's actually one of our most complex moves far as knowing when to use at the right times. It's no secret that Ridley's don't make optimal use of it except for edgeguarding/ledgetrapping.

There's something oddly calming but also engaging about Ridley tutorial videos set to jazz, I'm learning right now.

 

[Garo]

Semi-interesting interaction I had with Skewer and Kazuya's Rage Drive armor:

I feel like I've seen the same thing before (Skewer skips the zoom-in and thus executes faster) but I can't remember what caused it then.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah, have seen that interaction with Kazuya happen with someone before too.

So for the last patch, we got a dash attack buff. Kills like 30% earlier on its own from what I tested, and will be quite noticeable when used at the end of combo strings like d-throw > f-air and variants of it.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/57295

The Min-Min nerfs is a nice bonus.

Edit: This f-air > dash attack setup could have potential. Note that it has to be sour f-air or it’ll send too far. It being staled can help as far as that.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Also, I guess the opponent being put in jablock by certain moves will lead to dash attack kills fairly often now.

 

[Garo]

30% earlier? That's nuts. IIRC knockback buffs are rately that big.

Well, this is it for Ridley. Down air still kinda sucks and I feel Plasma Breath and SPR are somewhat undertuned, but besides that it feels like he's in a decent place.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

30% earlier? That's nuts. IIRC knockback buffs are rately that big.

Well, this is it for Ridley. Down air still kinda sucks and I feel Plasma Breath and SPR are somewhat undertuned, but besides that it feels like he's in a decent place.

30% was a guesstimation on my part, going off of memory. Before I recall dash attack on its own not killing like Mario on Final Destination until around 140%, while now I could do it around 110%. In reality I guess it made the move kill closer to 10 to 15% earlier on average, but still pretty good in addition to the other things DA getting strengthened helps with as pointed out.

 

[Garo]

Went solo-Ridley in the European Online Challenge. Downward Wing Blitz, Skewer and SPR gimps helped me get some really quick wins. Unfortunately all the European R.O.Bs who I haven't seen in months chose this as the time to crawl out of their scrap heaps and generally gave me tons of trouble. Also faced a really good K. Rool player and an even better Terry player. Landing a Skewer on K. Rool's armor is really fun since you basically get a second one for free, but I might stop trying it against Terry altogether. Landed two in one match and got instantly owned by GO! both times.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

One thing I realized I wasn’t doing before against Terry the last time I fought one was up angle f-tilt to stuff out his approaches. That and down tilt you should be doing plenty anyway for Ridley’s neutral, but still.

 

[Garo]

Results for the European Online Challenge. My 22 000 or so points weren't enough to make it to top 100, but French Ridley player Aiba managed to nab the 8th place.

My new "innovation" is phantom footstooling a shielding opponent to bait out an oos attack and then punishing with dair. Also getting better at using uncharged / minimally charged Plasma Breath.

 

[Garo]

Youtuber Hanasaku has gotten to Ridley in his series of videos where he changes characters in interesting and sometimes ridiculous ways:

Landing shockwave for down air is probably the most reasonable of the bunch, but having forward smash range increase with charge (like Duck Hunt Duo's) seems interesting and not too OP. I can only imagine what five midair jumps would lead to, considering the two we have is sometimes enough to f-air people off the side.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ridley could also use a weight buff so he is as heavy as Charizard.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Smash community: Wow, Ridley is so light. (weighs 107)
Also Smash community: Damn, ROB is sooo heavy!! (weighs 106)

Top tier bias I guess, but ROB's still a fairly big body that's easy to hit, or at least easy to keep in disadvantage once you get a hit in and you're patient while knowing his whole playbook (waiting for him to use laser off stage before going in to edgeguard, etc). Ridley could be heavier, but I still maintain that it's serviceable enough for now, especially with his impressive survival DI.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think the weight complaint is because people were disappointed that Ridley wasn’t a superheavy thus subverting expectation. With ROB he is a fairly small real life toy so people don’t care that he isn’t that heavy. Funnily enough, you do see a good number of people disappointed with Mewtwo and Sephiroth’s weight from a canon perspective.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Metroid Prime HD huh? Dreams beyond Smash come true after all.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Oh, the render.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Garo]

I was getting worried that none of the Remastered control schemes felt good, but then I noticed that you can set motion controls on with the dual stick style, which immediately felt right.

I only just landed on Tallon IV (I always take ages with Primes since I scan and look at everything) but so far I'm very impressed by the visuals. They're definitely above what you'd generally expect from a remaster (upgraded resolution, sharper textures). Some of the level geometry and character models seem completely redone and the lighting's obviously way better. Dunno if this was in the original, but a neat detail I only now noticed is that when you look up when it's raining the droplets are actually sliding down the arm cannon.

The model viewer in the extras menu is a nice little addition. Like in DK Tropical Freeze they're not all just models doing a basic pose but neat little dioramas instead. There are some funny details like a Parasite Larva that's seemingly biting its own tail (or doing its best Morph Ball impression).