Low Tier Potential!

[Comet7]

i'd bet on m2k's pichu over triple r's kirby tbh

 

[PsychoSoldier]

TBH I thought the potential of YL and Link had already been realized, which is also why I avoid even bringing them up, as they have already moved out of SH tiet (s**t tier).

I'd much rather focus on characters below Roy

And yes I;m too lazy to quote

 

[SAUS]

All I can say is that I see a distinct lack of discussion about crouch cancel in this thread. Half the reason a lot of low tier characters are low tier is because they are awful against crouch cancelling. One key part about all the top tiers is that they have good, reliable, and sometimes even easy ways to deal with a crouch cancelling opponent (drill/shine, drill/shine, needles/amazing grab, dair/amazing grab/spacing, tornado dress/float cancel/turnips, stomp/knee/grab, death grab/fair, spaced bair/dair/decent grab).

I am fairly certain YL cannot fair -> d-smash safely against crouch cancel. A quick look at his frame data thread shows that he has 7 frames of lag after the fair and his d-smash hits on frame 9. That means it will hit on frame 16, earliest. A crouch cancelled move applies 4 frames of "stun" (really just landing animation that in most (all?) cases can be cancelled on or after 4 frames - we'll assume after because I forget). 1 frame before the d-smash hits is frame 15. After 4 frames of the landing animation, there is still 11 frames before the d-smash hits. That is enough for Link to grab if he is frame perfect. I can assure you that other characters will grab you by that time with ease (4 extra frames of leniency). You could space it, sure, but 11 frames to shield is practically impossible to mess up. Also consider shine which will have 11 frames of leniency assuming you don't space properly.

Bomb drop OOS is NOT 1 frame. It is jump squat + 1 frame. It's essentially as fast as a shine OOS, but shines are safe against CC at 0%. A spacy trying to shine you will most likely CC the fuse burn (because they are holding down) and then still shine you. Even if he gets stuck from the bomb exploding (it might not because it bounces around a bit when it burns so the shine may miss), you still got knocked down (if fox) or launched (falco).

OOS options are nice, but consider how they are against CC as well. The reason someone like Link can get rushed down is not just because he has slow OOS options, it's that none of them are safe against someone holding down. It is the same issue for YL, but at least he can wavedash much more quickly. Otherwise, it is safe to say that they both essentially have no moves OOS (without shield dropping), as long as their opponent is at low damage, that are safe.

How is Pichu's nair against CC? I can't say I know, but I have a hunch that CC -> almost anything will punish it quite easily. Either that or it will mean that it is basically neutral again since your opponent has no stun. There is also the issue of the opponent going for trades - much like how Ganon is heavier than almost everyone, Pichu makes everyone else the Ganon in the matchup. He just loses at trading.

One of the main reasons Ganon is any good is because he can actually crush a CCing opponent. His stomp is like a super punish to it, but even a spaced fair is quite safe. His high knockback also removes it as a viable option against his weaker moves quite early. He has decent mixups with platform movement. Spaced moves on shields are safe. If you trade with him, you are losing. He even has his jab which is quite good against CC and comes out ridiculously fast. A good panic button (unlike YL, Pichu, or really any low tier).

The biggest factor to consider when you want to threaten space is how to deal with an opponent holding down. Ganon threatens against CC starting from 0%. What can YL do when his opponent is at 0%? What can Pichu do?

 

[XYZ?]

I feel like G&W could be used the same way jigglypuff is if you want a easier time getting back to stage.

 

[Comet7]

pichu's up air and dair are decent against CC. dair has the electric properties and the quake, though i'm not sure what the frame advantage or disadvantage is... up air definitely won't break CC against most characters at 0 (another thing i need to get around to testing...). nair only has 6 frames of endlag, so late nair seems pretty legitimate against CC (I haven't experimented with it much, but I should). shield obviously isn't that great of an option, but pichu can get it out before most moves like samus's down smash come out. nair might be able to be spaced so fox's shine can't punish it, maybe not (test, test...). falco's shine can definitely be spaced around since its range is mediocre and doesn't reach in front of him. headbutts is a sort of gimmicky panic move, but they can work since people are in an awkward position when they're getting headbutted since you know when you're going to stop and the other person doesn't.

 

[Zodiac]

As a former Link main I can tell you he has no potential, he freaking sucks.

 

[LovinMitts]

If Ness didn't play like such a chubster in Melee, he'd be really good. He gets a lot out of his DJC aerials, but he has way too many flaws that keep him from being viable. The yo-yo glitch is very interesting as well, but it's far too inconsistent to affect how viable he is.

 

[Carl the Oatswag]

I mean pichu has some great mobility and speed but you get that and much more with pikachu

 

[PsychoSoldier]

._. um Ness's U-tilt has a few frames of invincibility and is a great juggler on all characters except Jigglypuff

Did i contribute?

 

[LovinMitts]

Here's how to play a low tier effectively:

Someone mains an uncommon matchup, like Peach or Doc or something.
You go an even more uncommon matchup. For me, I go Ness.

Got 3-stocked as Sheik by a very good Luigi player who just moved here and destroyed most of my pool.
Went Ness and it was down to the last stock.

Okay, so that isn't the best example, but hey. Whatev.

 

[Avoin]

Obviously the bias is strong, but young link.

Truly believe that if used as a dedicated main, he can prove to be better than currently thought.

Very nice speed, Believe he runs faster/or as fast as falco , has a decent air capability in his juggles/Dair, can control the game with his projectiles *though he can be out camped by fox/falco of course*. Neutral A is pretty stellar, pretty good at ledge guards, but of course his glaring issue ,he has a slight struggle to finish off kills.

Been maining the links for awhile and recently switched to young link, though i'm not even close to a top talent and don't expect to personally make any impact with the character for some time. Making progress though.

 

[WinterShorts]

As a serious, partially devoted Mewtwo main myself, I'd say he has potential. He can play mindgames with his teleport, he can start combos against spacies, and his back-air is a super comfortable way of edge guarding someone or keeping someone off-stage (which reminds me, best recovery in the game over here!) How about his shadow ball? Not just throwing small or big shadow balls, but the charge of the ball? It's just this crazy hitbox that sends people in the air enough to grab them afterwards (and makes for a hilarious edgeguard!). I'd even argue that his side-b is useful, simply because it can go through shields and set up for heavy reads.

Mewtwo has a lot of untapped potential I believe. He's got these unique attributes to make for an unpredictable character.


Oh and also, battlefield side-b shenanigans are awesome!

 

[Dolla Pills]

Mewtwo' side b is punishable on hit