knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
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looking for video critique falco vs chinesesah's fox
- Thread starter knightpraetor
- Start date
Hmm, you really have to get more clever while recovering and coming back from the ledge
I'll edit this for a more detailed critic ^^'
E: 0:40 - why dj-dair on the platform? you could waveland on it but why dair?
0:50 - sweetspot
0:52 - don't attack like this if you lost your rejump =/
Instead waveland on the platform or just ff without any attack
0:55 - if he edhehogs either do rejump --> phantasm asap or do rejump --> firebird (and space it so he can't edgehop bair + recover
Try to predict if and when he ledgehops and either sweetspot ( if you think he'll leave the ledge soon enough) or do your upB diagonal upwards and ff (or he stays on the ledge ofc don't >.<)
0:56: - Laser =P
1:07 - nice pillar, but if you hit him you have to follow up more efficent
1:08 - That wakeup attack was very obvious; punish it
1:10 - don't always spotdodge after a tech when he is near; mix it up with shine/shield/c-stick-roll
1:12 - DI?
1:15 - DON'T comeback like this; it's easy to punish and you get set up for an easy edgeguard
1:19 - (2nd upB) Do it more upwardish and ff --> more difficult to punish
1:26 - if he stays in his shield, grab him and throw him asap (i'd fthrow in this situation)
1:28 - this is one of the most important things in this matchup - CC every f**king drill and shine him before he touches the ground --> combo
1:30 - after that tech i'd have tried to shine/ Next drill, cc --> shine, it's cool
1:33 - don't dodge after the tech
1:34/35 - Fall down deeper and then sweetspot the ledge with your rejump / The ledgehop -->phantasm was a bad decision; either do it asap or on the platform, but i'd prefer doing ldhl or just going onto the stage by pressing right
1:44 - against foxes ledgehopped aerials are not that good, because he can cc and shine or dd
1:56 - you have to expect that illusion; shffl a nair, it works wonders
1:58 - again this risky rejump dair =/
1:59 - isai drop would have been cool
2:05 - don't turn around wait for the illusion and shffl a nair or if he changes his recovery do what fits (mostly shffl'd dair and run off +rejump dair)
2:10 - just do a second laser (before your first laser hits) =P
2:11 - messup =/ ; run off + rejump dair is sexy in this situation
2:15 - rejump dair =/; that was close
2:23 - be sure your lhdls are very low against fox
2:33 - edgehog
2:38 - this time the rejump + bair wsa a good decision ^_^
2:41 - if possible SDI those uairs
In conclusion:
- think more while recovering
- vary your approaches, you often approach too direct (when against shield shffl'd nair > shffl'd dair)
- CC + SHINE
- if you hit him, follow up better
- MORE LASER (alot)
- Platformgame
- Falcos grabs aren't very good but if they mess up the DI some awsome combos occur (e.g. uthrow --> shffl'd nair --> grab =P)
Ask me if anything isn't clear
I'll edit this for a more detailed critic ^^'
E: 0:40 - why dj-dair on the platform? you could waveland on it but why dair?
0:50 - sweetspot
0:52 - don't attack like this if you lost your rejump =/
Instead waveland on the platform or just ff without any attack
0:55 - if he edhehogs either do rejump --> phantasm asap or do rejump --> firebird (and space it so he can't edgehop bair + recover
Try to predict if and when he ledgehops and either sweetspot ( if you think he'll leave the ledge soon enough) or do your upB diagonal upwards and ff (or he stays on the ledge ofc don't >.<)
0:56: - Laser =P
1:07 - nice pillar, but if you hit him you have to follow up more efficent
1:08 - That wakeup attack was very obvious; punish it
1:10 - don't always spotdodge after a tech when he is near; mix it up with shine/shield/c-stick-roll
1:12 - DI?
1:15 - DON'T comeback like this; it's easy to punish and you get set up for an easy edgeguard
1:19 - (2nd upB) Do it more upwardish and ff --> more difficult to punish
1:26 - if he stays in his shield, grab him and throw him asap (i'd fthrow in this situation)
1:28 - this is one of the most important things in this matchup - CC every f**king drill and shine him before he touches the ground --> combo
1:30 - after that tech i'd have tried to shine/ Next drill, cc --> shine, it's cool
1:33 - don't dodge after the tech
1:34/35 - Fall down deeper and then sweetspot the ledge with your rejump / The ledgehop -->phantasm was a bad decision; either do it asap or on the platform, but i'd prefer doing ldhl or just going onto the stage by pressing right
1:44 - against foxes ledgehopped aerials are not that good, because he can cc and shine or dd
1:56 - you have to expect that illusion; shffl a nair, it works wonders
1:58 - again this risky rejump dair =/
1:59 - isai drop would have been cool
2:05 - don't turn around wait for the illusion and shffl a nair or if he changes his recovery do what fits (mostly shffl'd dair and run off +rejump dair)
2:10 - just do a second laser (before your first laser hits) =P
2:11 - messup =/ ; run off + rejump dair is sexy in this situation
2:15 - rejump dair =/; that was close
2:23 - be sure your lhdls are very low against fox
2:33 - edgehog
2:38 - this time the rejump + bair wsa a good decision ^_^
2:41 - if possible SDI those uairs
In conclusion:
- think more while recovering
- vary your approaches, you often approach too direct (when against shield shffl'd nair > shffl'd dair)
- CC + SHINE
- if you hit him, follow up better
- MORE LASER (alot)
- Platformgame
- Falcos grabs aren't very good but if they mess up the DI some awsome combos occur (e.g. uthrow --> shffl'd nair --> grab =P)
Ask me if anything isn't clear
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
I have a little time; here's what I got for you, knightpraetor.
Well, there are two major things that I see you're doing 'wrong':
1. Try to sweet-spot the edge more: Part of the reason why Chinesahh beat you that bad was because he capitalized on your recovery, which is okay because Falco's recovery isn't that good to begin with.
2. Mind-games are you friends: Find a way to get 'inside' of the Fox. Chinesahh is one of the fastest Fox's I've ever seen, so I understand here.
Your tech skill is great, so you know what you're doing. Chinesahh's #8(?) on the EC; he knows what he's doing. No one is expecting you to do any better against a player of his status and caliber.
Well, there are two major things that I see you're doing 'wrong':
1. Try to sweet-spot the edge more: Part of the reason why Chinesahh beat you that bad was because he capitalized on your recovery, which is okay because Falco's recovery isn't that good to begin with.
2. Mind-games are you friends: Find a way to get 'inside' of the Fox. Chinesahh is one of the fastest Fox's I've ever seen, so I understand here.
Your tech skill is great, so you know what you're doing. Chinesahh's #8(?) on the EC; he knows what he's doing. No one is expecting you to do any better against a player of his status and caliber.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
1:15 - DON'T comeback like this; it's easy to punish and you get set up for an easy edgeguard
should i just wait and sweetspot jump to the ledge?
2:05 - don't turn around wait for the illusion and shffl a nair or if he changes his recovery do what fits (mostly shffl'd dair and run off +rejump dair
is it not better to just turn around and then uptilt if he goes at you/dsmash if he goes low?
though granted, if you shffl the nair it will hang and beat hte phantasm, right?
thanks for all the advice; saved me the trouble of watching. Definitely was really predictable with ledgehops, techs/spotdodges, aerial approaches, etc.
Fighting his fox was too hard for my second rate falco:\ Chinesesah's fox destroyed all my character's pretty much. The only thing that was reasonably close was fox dittos. I main fox/marth...the embarassing part was how bad my marth was destroyed. I'm really not that surprised that my sheik and falco were ravaged. I just didn't expect it to be 4-stock demolishment.
Chinesesah had a surprisingly good DK. Better than his marth i thought. I managed to beat his marth with fox and only lost by a stock with sheik and in marth dittos. BUt his dk just destroyed my fox. I did better on FD, despite the chaingrab. Got more upair combos.
who else does he play?
anyways, back on topic, when fox is at hte right spacing to shffl a nair at you..are you better off shielding or attempting to trade your nair? or should you be trying to respace so you can start lasering again and prevent his nair approaches?
should i just wait and sweetspot jump to the ledge?
2:05 - don't turn around wait for the illusion and shffl a nair or if he changes his recovery do what fits (mostly shffl'd dair and run off +rejump dair
is it not better to just turn around and then uptilt if he goes at you/dsmash if he goes low?
though granted, if you shffl the nair it will hang and beat hte phantasm, right?
thanks for all the advice; saved me the trouble of watching. Definitely was really predictable with ledgehops, techs/spotdodges, aerial approaches, etc.
Fighting his fox was too hard for my second rate falco:\ Chinesesah's fox destroyed all my character's pretty much. The only thing that was reasonably close was fox dittos. I main fox/marth...the embarassing part was how bad my marth was destroyed. I'm really not that surprised that my sheik and falco were ravaged. I just didn't expect it to be 4-stock demolishment.
Chinesesah had a surprisingly good DK. Better than his marth i thought. I managed to beat his marth with fox and only lost by a stock with sheik and in marth dittos. BUt his dk just destroyed my fox. I did better on FD, despite the chaingrab. Got more upair combos.
who else does he play?
anyways, back on topic, when fox is at hte right spacing to shffl a nair at you..are you better off shielding or attempting to trade your nair? or should you be trying to respace so you can start lasering again and prevent his nair approaches?
should i just wait and sweetspot jump to the ledge?
Yes, but make sure your exaxt at sweetspoting with your rejump or he'll just run to the edge and shine or sth and your dead.
is it not better to just turn around and then uptilt if he goes at you/dsmash if he goes low?
That's also possible but then don't jump xP
I rarely turn around because nair comes out faster than utilt so i can react better ( @ low % it even sets up for a gimp =D) and i somehow also prefer dair over dsmash.
But that's just personal preference.
though granted, if you shffl the nair it will hang and beat hte phantasm, right?
Yes, it will send him offstage again and at low % he'll fall under the height of the ledge (which means he'll have to upB and at low % it's harder to tech the dair/dsmash.
when fox is at hte right spacing to shffl a nair at you..are you better off shielding or attempting to trade your nair? or should you be trying to respace so you can start lasering again and prevent his nair approaches?
Usually he shouldn't be able to shffl a nair at you cause of you shlers. However if he's too near to do a shl (eg after you teched) you can turn around und utilt / Dash or wd back / flee with a rshl /cc and shine at low% / DJ over him --> ff + dair (don't spam this ^^') / shield / use platforms to escape
Keep in mind that he doesn't have to shffl a nair in this situation, with his great Dashdance he can't wait for you to panic and do sth dumb and then grab you ;P
If he's really near, shielding often is the best you can do. But if you shield make sure you can shine out of shield very fast. ofc you can also roll now and then, but against Foxes this isn't the best idea =/
Shind out of shield ***** btw. it starts **** combos in this matchup ;P
Edit: i never try to trade nairs, but i'd only use it if he is at high % and you at low
Yes, but make sure your exaxt at sweetspoting with your rejump or he'll just run to the edge and shine or sth and your dead.
is it not better to just turn around and then uptilt if he goes at you/dsmash if he goes low?
That's also possible but then don't jump xP
I rarely turn around because nair comes out faster than utilt so i can react better ( @ low % it even sets up for a gimp =D) and i somehow also prefer dair over dsmash.
But that's just personal preference.
though granted, if you shffl the nair it will hang and beat hte phantasm, right?
Yes, it will send him offstage again and at low % he'll fall under the height of the ledge (which means he'll have to upB and at low % it's harder to tech the dair/dsmash.
when fox is at hte right spacing to shffl a nair at you..are you better off shielding or attempting to trade your nair? or should you be trying to respace so you can start lasering again and prevent his nair approaches?
Usually he shouldn't be able to shffl a nair at you cause of you shlers. However if he's too near to do a shl (eg after you teched) you can turn around und utilt / Dash or wd back / flee with a rshl /cc and shine at low% / DJ over him --> ff + dair (don't spam this ^^') / shield / use platforms to escape
Keep in mind that he doesn't have to shffl a nair in this situation, with his great Dashdance he can't wait for you to panic and do sth dumb and then grab you ;P
If he's really near, shielding often is the best you can do. But if you shield make sure you can shine out of shield very fast. ofc you can also roll now and then, but against Foxes this isn't the best idea =/
Shind out of shield ***** btw. it starts **** combos in this matchup ;P
Edit: i never try to trade nairs, but i'd only use it if he is at high % and you at low
I'm not going to go too in depth, but you used get up attack way too many times. He punished you after the 3rd time with a wavedash grab. Don't miss as many techs in the future, and don't become predictable.
Your lasers are too high and slow. They're great for pressuring, so make sure you're good at abusing them. Also, edgeguard more aggressively; you would've had a kill that game.
Your lasers are too high and slow. They're great for pressuring, so make sure you're good at abusing them. Also, edgeguard more aggressively; you would've had a kill that game.