Looking for some help with my defensive game

[Cardboardo]

Hello! I've recently been trying to improve my smash game due to the fast-approaching release of SSB4. I'm almost exclusively using Ness, if that matters. I've been getting pretty good at utilizing tricks like short-hopping (Just today I switched from using the analog stick to the X button for my jumps, so I'm still pretty awkward) but I have one common issue. I need a bit of advice with guards and such. I've grown into the habit of just rolling mindlessly and hoping for an opening whenever I need to fight on the ground and it's been hurting me. I hear that rolling is mostly taboo, at least in higher levels of play. I'm just not sure when to guard, when to dodge, etc. etc.. Can someone give me a few tips? Thanks!

 

[infiniteV115]

Most moves in this game are punishable on shield, which means that if it hits your shield, there's enough lag for you to punish it.

Pay attention to when your opponent attacks as opposed to grabbing (or, I guess, not attacking) and shield only when you expect them to attack. Then punish accordingly. Do this for a bit and you'll learn what you can punish out of shield (most things) and what you can't (some things)

Some of Ness' quicker options OoS (Out of Shield) are his shieldgrab, and jumping and immediately doing a neutral air.

Here's an example of some things that might seem like really safe attacks but are actually punishable out of shield
- MK dsmash (first hit). I can't remember whether this is -18 or -25 (frame disadvantage) on shield, but in either case you have enough time to drop your shield (7 frames) and do a running grab (8 frames) for a 15 frame total, meaning you have at least a 3 frame leniency window. If you're close enough you can also just do something like nair OoS (this should be 8 frames I think), fair OoS, ftilt OoS, etc.
- Marth fsmash. Dunno the frame disadvantage on this one but I'm pretty sure it's much less safe than MK's dsmash.
- MK dash attack. This I'm pretty sure is also less safe than MK dsmash, but the tricky thing about punishing it is that it (usually, depends on how the MK spaces it) puts MK behind you, so a shieldgrab won't work. You might want to drop shield, turn around and dash attack/dash grab.
- Snake utilt, all of Falco's smashes, Olimar's usmash, ICs smashes, Marth's smashes and tilts, MK's ftilt3, Pikachu's smashes, and tons of other moves that might seem safe on shield aren't actually safe. Can't really go through them all.

Here's a few examples of moves that are ACTUALLY safe on shield
- MK's fsmash
- ZSS' dsmash and sideB
- Ness, Marth & MK's fairs on shield, if spaced and timed properly
- Marth's nair on shield
- Falco's landing lasers, if timed properly
- Every zair if spaced properly
- Fox's landing bair

 

[smashkng]

Most moves in this game are punishable on shield, which means that if it hits your shield, there's enough lag for you to punish it.

Pay attention to when your opponent attacks as opposed to grabbing (or, I guess, not attacking) and shield only when you expect them to attack. Then punish accordingly. Do this for a bit and you'll learn what you can punish out of shield (most things) and what you can't (some things)

Some of Ness' quicker options OoS (Out of Shield) are his shieldgrab, and jumping and immediately doing a neutral air.

Here's an example of some things that might seem like really safe attacks but are actually punishable out of shield
- MK dsmash (first hit). I can't remember whether this is -18 or -25 (frame disadvantage) on shield, but in either case you have enough time to drop your shield (7 frames) and do a running grab (8 frames) for a 15 frame total, meaning you have at least a 3 frame leniency window. If you're close enough you can also just do something like nair OoS (this should be 8 frames I think), fair OoS, ftilt OoS, etc.
- Marth fsmash. Dunno the frame disadvantage on this one but I'm pretty sure it's much less safe than MK's dsmash.
- MK dash attack. This I'm pretty sure is also less safe than MK dsmash, but the tricky thing about punishing it is that it (usually, depends on how the MK spaces it) puts MK behind you, so a shieldgrab won't work. You might want to drop shield, turn around and dash attack/dash grab.
- Snake utilt, all of Falco's smashes, Olimar's usmash, ICs smashes, Marth's smashes and tilts, MK's ftilt3, Pikachu's smashes, and tons of other moves that might seem safe on shield aren't actually safe. Can't really go through them all.

Here's a few examples of moves that are ACTUALLY safe on shield
- MK's fsmash
- ZSS' dsmash and sideB
- Ness, Marth & MK's fairs on shield, if spaced and timed properly
- Marth's nair on shield
- Falco's landing lasers, if timed properly
- Every zair if spaced properly
- Fox's landing bair

MK's Dsmash is -25 on front, -18 or -19 on the back. MK's Fsmash isn't always safe on shield though. It's like -12 or -13 so if you PS it you can usually shield grab it unless your character has terrible grab range, or you can shield smash DI into MK to get into shield grab range if it's poorly spaced. A Ness Nair OoS could possibly work too if you PS that Fsmash. Learning to PS really helps with your punish game and it certainly helps in the long run if it takes more hits for your shield to become small from blocking attacks if you powershield the opponent's moves.

 

[Cardboardo]

Yowza! Those are some really informative replies; Thanks guys! I'm gonna take post replies to heart and get straight to practicing. I'll update with how I'm doing. Right now I still need to grasp the basics of getting my shield timing correct but soon I'll try to memorize those class-specifics both of you touched on.

 

[PKBeam]

- Every zair if spaced properly

Not ours.