Looking back at the Gematsu leak...

[lijero13ss]

You cannot guess Mii Fighters. No, that is not possible in any way. The character did not exist till Smash. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They are created by Sakurai first. That's complete and utter bull. Get over it and just accept that he had real information, because you're making up bullcrap excuses now.

No, you're using severely flawed logic. It does not work that way. You do not predict almost the entire roster that you specifically gave out as correct. You do not predict a character does not exist yet. Mii Fighters are the exact same thing as Roy, two characters(technically 4) who originated in Smash. Let it go and just move on. They cannot be predicted if they do not exist. Period. That point will never hold water on your part. I don't care if he guessed most of the roster, but one cannot be guessed no matter what. It's quite literally impossible, and the chances of him guessing almost every character perfect, and Mii Fighters, who do not exist, it just way too impossible. He clearly had inside information. No, Wii Fit Trainer is not easy to guess. Not even close. Villager didn't even have a name till Smash 4, and was pretty much called Animal Crossing Boy, which Animal Crossing Guy means the same thing. Guy and any usage of Male are completely interchangeable. It's damn obvious what he meant.

Your crap about Rosalina is also wrong. He didn't list it because he didn't get a chance. No other reason. He's beyond credible, and to be frank, it's way more likely that Chrom and Chorus Men were cut later on. You know why he didn't get some later characters? Because perhaps, oh, I don't know, they were added later? Sakurai added the clones and Robin late into the game. How can he know Lucina or Robin when they weren't added before Palutena's reveal? Or likely weren't. You're making a lot of poor assumptions while completely ignoring what Sakurai said. FYI, he 100% got "Pokemon from X & Y" just as Sakurai listed it, since he outright admitted that's how he listed it. That's one hell of an exact coincidence, now isn't it. In fact, it even further implies Sakurai had a smaller list, which the guy read and gave to us. Amazing how he got Lucas' cut, DLC characters, and Mii Fighter(again, this is not guessable since they do not exist no matter what anyone says. Don't be ridiculous, they're new characters in every way and originated in Smash. That's as dumb as believing somebody guessed Roy from Fire Emblem, who didn't exist yet either), and got all but 2 characters wrong. But here's the kicker; We know Sakurai considered Chrom. That's a fact. We know Sakurai made a list since "Pokemon from X & Y" was on it. The chances of Chrom being on there are extremely high. Due to poor translations, Considered and Planned can be treated the same way. So even the interview isn't good enough as a reason to act like Chrom was not planned. The fact that Smash Run somehow has only enemies from playable franchises except a proven cut character(Ice Climbers) makes it beyond suspicious that somehow Chorus Men have an enemy too. While it's not cold hard proof they were planned, them being planned is beyond believable, and there's enough to suggest it's true, and them being cut is very likely a 3DS issue just like Ice Climbers, due to their multi-character style. Unless there's any proof they were definitely not playable(which there isn't), there's actually zero evidence to suggest the guy lied, and quite a bit to show he did not. Even if some is anecdotal, it's still more than what has been given against him, way more.

Frankly, there's a point when there's nothing better to do but accept when a leaker is legit. And he got way less wrong than the Pokemon X & Y leaker, who was also completely legit. There is no way a leaker who isn't the person controlling when characters are revealed to get every character reveal right. So that's not even worth entertaining as evidence against him. Planned dates change all the time, including release dates. Anybody who pays attention to developments knows that. In addition, leakers never know everything. They can't. Outside of the main developer themselves, there's going to be pieces a person will miss. They can miss a day of work due to being sick, for instance. You're too quick to call out the guy fake, and using extremely flawed if not sometimes worthless evidence. Tom Nook and Resetti have official and exact names. Greninja did not at the time. Nor did Villager. He would've named them exactly if he could. Because Guy and Boy can easily mean the same thing, there's no reason to believe whatsoever he wasn't referring to the player character. Honestly, if somebody leaked Brawl and called Pokemon Trainer as Red due to image they saw, they'd be just as correct. Even if they got the final name wrong, they didn't get the real character wrong overall. When people see PT, they assume Red(or sometimes Ash). Until they see the name, they won't refer to them as such. But since he beyond likely had a list, he could only list the currently planned characters, in waves(which explains why Rosalina wasn't listed, and the only reason she wasn't), which doesn't necessarily include every character that gets added late. Also, the fact Lucina was added mid-development and around the same times as the clones means he could not have known about her whatsoever. It's useless data against the leaker. Oh, and my favorite part; Sakurai downright admitted he originally wanted Miis in, but found Mii Fighters to be a more original idea and went with that instead. Yes Miis were listed first, and Mii Fighters were a mid-development decision, just as it was reported for Sal's leaker. Crazy coincidence, isn't it? Or, to be more blunt, it was no coincidence. Because there's just way too many, especially if you pay attention to the real development(which it's clear you did not, as he got two exact things right just as Sakurai said, which was Mii Fighters and Pokemon from X & Y). Oh, and fyi, you're wrong about Shulk's trailer too. He did not actually say the trailer would be that day. What he said was "Enjoy my good friend Shulk", implying it could be. But since he didn't actually say that'll be the case, it's a very weak blow to him. It also further proved that where he was among the development team, reveal trailer dates wasn't the specific case. In addition, he did also specify Shulk is in without a doubt, which was not a lie either. So I have a damn hard time believing he lied, when there's a severe amount of evidence in his his favor, including Sakurai's own words. Also, Sal isn't the leaker, he's just the middle guy, and didn't make up anything. At worst he translated weirdly. Hence "Goddess Palutena". He could've just been told "Animal Crossing Boy" and used a synonym for it. There's too much in favor of the leaker, and almost zip against him. He got two characters wrong, which are completely accountable for(and only one can be argued to not be proven as someone Sakurai intended to be in at one point, and it ain't Chrom), two impossible guesses right, since one is not able to be guessed, and another that Sakurai explicitly said was the case, and two severely difficult guesses(Wii Fit Trainer and Villager's codename), and since we have proof that codenames are used, as Roy was called Fire_Emblem first, Villager's codename is more than provable as correct for the time. And it sure as hell wasn't already anmed characters, cause he just happened to name everyone else accurately, or used a slight title, which still isn't legitimately inaccurate.

And with that, I'm done. He's legit beyond a shadow of a doubt, and you haven't given a single legitimate reason why we should believe he was entirely fake. Conspiracy theories are beyond illegitimate and irrational. We go with facts. He listed, mid-development, an exact new character that did not exist anywhere at all. That cannot be guessed, no matter what, and no amount of pointless denial will change this. Nor will bullcrap theories that hold zero water either. He could only have known about it because he was still working there, and nothing else.

And to put it bluntly, I haven't seen such flimsy evidence in a long time. Terrible conspiracy theories do not make for a strong argument, if even one worth entertaining. You can believe he guessed most of the roster all you want, but denying an impossible guess is just ludicrous and severely hurts your argument. He was legit for sure. It does not mean 100% of it was legit, but guess what? Not all leakers have all the information, so it's not a zero sum game anyway.

Lol biggest post ive seen in smash boards to date lol

You need a tl;dr

 

[lijero13ss]

You cannot guess Mii Fighters. No, that is not possible in any way. The character did not exist till Smash. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They are created by Sakurai first. That's complete and utter bull. Get over it and just accept that he had real information, because you're making up bullcrap excuses now

Mii = Mii Fighter. I bet hundreds of people predicted Miis are probably gonna be playable characters, So you mean to tell me that if i came up to you pre release and said "Hey i predict Miis are gonna be playable characters" then smash 4 comes out, and the Mii Fighters are there, you are going to tell me im wrong?? Really?

Again, Mii = Mii Fighters

 

[SmashBro99]

The fact that he called Wii Fit Trainer makes me believe he had some info, and he guessed a lot of characters. Sure they seem like "obvious" choices now because they are confirmed...lol

 

[ScottyWK]

The only thing that the SalRomano/Gematsu leak got right was the E3 stuff. If you remember, he even called Miis "Miis" all the way up until minutes before the Nintendo video, where he called them Mii-Fighters. That to me is proof that he had relevant info at E3, but not much else.

All of his other predictions from the April leak (Chrom, Chorus Kids) were dead wrong or easy guesses (Palutena). Even Chrom seemed like an easy guess at the time. He also didn't mention Duck Hunt or Bowser Jr at all, which I'm going to go out on a limb and say weren't late additions, considering they have completely unique movesets and trailers.

"Outdated information" works for the clones not being part of his leak, but omission of those two characters and whiffing completely on Chrom/Chorus Kids is inexplicable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mii = Mii Fighter. I bet hundreds of people predicted Miis are probably gonna be playable characters, So you mean to tell me that if i came up to you pre release and said "Hey i predict Miis are gonna be playable characters" then smash 4 comes out, and the Mii Fighters are there, you are going to tell me im wrong?? Really?

Again, Mii = Mii Fighters

No One predicted Mii Fighters. Seriously, get over it.

That's not how predictions work. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They're an entirely new concept that Sakurai created.

No, you do not get it right for saying Miis whatsoever. That's not really who are overall playable. Want to know who really is playable? An extremely unique iteration of the Mii that only two people ever managed to correctly tell us, Sakurai and Sal's Leaker. Absolutely zero people ever guessed that. Do you know what everybody guessed for Miis? It wasn't a Mii Fighter, that's for sure. They guessed two things only; They'll be based upon the Wii Sports and similar games as well will allow you to use your created Mii. Nobody actually guessed anything else at any time and those "predictions" never came up. The only person to ever utter the words Mii Fighters first was Sal Romano. Fact.

And yes, I definitely would say you're wrong. You didn't get the actual character nor how they play as. You'd be incorrect, since you clearly didn't know the Mii Fighters were playable. That's as dumb as telling me you guessed Giga Bowser existed or that Roy(Fire Emblem) existed before Melee. They did not. They are completely different characters in every way and are not from another game previously.

He did not guess them, he accurately knew about a new SSB character first introduced in the series. Because he had legitimate information that frankly cannot be denied no matter how much people try. Nobody actually thought Miis were going to be some unique class whatsoever or be in this kind of role. It didn't happen. Zero leaks suggested that in any way. People only guessed simple Miis, and nothing more, nothing "special", no unique name. In fact, the only mistake he made when he gave us this correct information was not list the rest of the classes, although that he probably didn't know of, but I could imagine him knowing of them and not bothered. Or Sal didn't post everything the leaker said, as we know he translated some of the message. Hell, we asked him to post the original and he refused to, which is logical, since you have to protect a leaker's identity so they don't get in trouble.

Oh, and for those who think Sal Romano is not credible, he's leaked real information before for other games, and he was always the messenger, not the person who directly had the information. He's no more than a messenger. The only crime he's really committed is poor translations at best. Nothing worth going nuts over.

 

[Xermo]

Just stopping in to say that the concept of fighting miis isn't something sakurai invented, hyper. If we got miis based on Wii sports boxing, they'd still be called mii fighters (or boxers). If we got miis based on find mii, they'd still be fighters. Literally the only reason the latter word is added into their title is because they take the form of 3 different unique fighting classes.

 

[LeeYawshee]

The Gematsu leak had been proven false as early as Rosalina & Luma. While people would still like to hang out it even after that, Robin and Lucina were the nails in the coffin, never mind that other predictions are nowhere to be seen.

Just because he didn't say everything doesn't mean that he was wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong, because I'm indifferent about Gematsu, but many past leakers didn't leak all of the information.

And that's not to mention the blatant contradictions like Chrom, as well as the freaking Chorus Kids who are nowhere to be seen in any form.

Wii Fit Trainer's prediction was impressive. Everything else was very guessable, and when you couple it with the innaccuracies and the missing information, I really see no way for this to have ever been real.

Once again, he leaked/guessed multiple times and even said that Lucas was going to be gone. If he had gone a third time, he might have said even more characters.

Also, the Chorus Kids are in both version of the game as trophies.

To add, didn't Gematsu Leak come out before E3? The information is pretty old.

Once again, I'm not saying it's real, but there's a lot of stuff that back it up. For this kind of stuff, you have to look at both sides, not just the side that disproves things.

 

[Evello]

I'm torn. I still am not convinced that Gematsu had actual information, but I will admit at the very least the leaker's guess record is good.

My biggest concern with the leak is the convenience of the order the characters were revealed in. Villager and WFT were by far the hardest guesses on the list and they were the first reveals. Everyone beyond that was honestly pretty easy to predict. Mega Man, Little Mac, any X&Y Pokemon (further helped by its vagueness, though the vagueness itself is not conclusive due to when the game started development), Palutena, Pac-Man, Shulk, and Miis were on loads of guess lists. Literal millions of SSB predictions were thrown out before the first E3 trailer. When WFT and Villager were revealed, the internet just identified one of the few of those millions of lists that got that prediction right, since there was bound to be at least one person who nailed it. After the first E3, the leaker did not guess any other surprise characters like Robin or Duck Hunt correctly (Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were actually pretty popular guesses initially, so I won't count them against Gematsu, though their playstyles were very unique and unpredicted). The leak just coasted on its initial 2 good guesses until another surprise popped up, then it tanked.

Worse still, the leak was not even right on all the obvious later guesses. Chrom was a very popular choice, and he was included in Gematsu, but he did not get in the game. We have no evidence he was ever even tested. Sakurai never indicated he made it into planning, as he seemed to believe quite strongly that Robin was a better choice than Chrom. Even more questionable is the fact hat the leaker only made one actually surprising guess after E3 2013 and it turned out wrong: Chorus Kids are nowhere to be seen. The Sneaky Spirits are in Smash Run, but that's hardly concrete evidence for an out-there cut newcomer we've never heard a peep about from Sakurai.

The fact that the name Mii Fighter is used by Gematsu is touted as the final evidence for Gematsu's credibility, but it is not really conclusive either. I would argue it's not really much of a point for or against the leak, since he also incorrectly labelled Palutena as "Goddess Palutena", called Villager "Animal Crossing Guy", and only knew of "Pokemon from X & Y". The leaker was not a fount of official names. Saying the leaker knew the Mii Fighters' final official names begs the question of why he didn't know all the other fighters' official names, which requires paragraphs of explaining away with assumptions. Meanwhile, it's completely reasonable and much simpler to assume that he just used the term Mii Fighter as a descriptive term, so that people understood what character he was predicting (exactly like the other names I listed above). How do you describe a Mii in a fighting game? A Mii Fighter. It is entirely reasonable someone could come up with that name without having inside information.

In total, the leaker guessed 2 difficult characters, which in a vacuum is impressive, but is less so when you consider that someone somewhere on the internet was bound to predict them. After that, the leaker made 8 common predictions and got 7/8 right. The leak also failed to include 2 commonly predicted characters. 2 surprise characters were not predicted, and one surprise character was predicted but was not in the game. That doesn't seem too perfect to be guesswork. And this is ignoring the 3 unpredicted clones, since they were later additions and most people assume Gematsu had old information. All in all, I'm unconvinced the Gematsu leaker was anything but a lucky guesser. It's not impossible that he/she had inside information, but I find it more likely that we witnessed a fluke of probability. We'll probably never know for sure either way.

 

[Ephemiel]

Honestly I'm more sad that Sakurai confirmed there will be no DLC, but still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just stopping in to say that the concept of fighting miis isn't something sakurai invented, hyper. If we got miis based on Wii sports boxing, they'd still be called mii fighters (or boxers). If we got miis based on find mii, they'd still be fighters. Literally the only reason the latter word is added into their title is because they take the form of 3 different unique fighting classes.

Yeah, keep telling yourself he didn't invent the concept. Yes, of course he did. The concept is a special type of Mii.

No, they would not be called Mii Fighters unless they were special classes. Being able to box does not make them a Mii Fighter. The fact that they're specifically the new Fighting Team is the only reason why the term Mii Fighter makes sense. Oh, and I guess some thought they could be the new fighting team, but that doesn't have anything to do with their unique name that nobody actually guessed(because nobody legitimate did, since that's pure bull and we all know it). It did not exist before, and he did it first. This is pointless hindsight bias at its finest. He 100% created the idea, and nobody did it before nor made any attempt to.

Everybody called them Miis, and there was no special class designation. Do you know why? Nobody had any idea they were going to be split into 3 types of Fighters whatsoever. This came entirely out of left field and was fully unexpected. It was not guessable. Seriously, people need to get over this crap and just accept he had real information about a 100% new character based upon a preexisting avatar. You cannot guess what does not exist. Nobody actually does. There was zero precedence to suggest they'd be a multiple type of character as well, which means the "Fighters" part was impossible. All anyone would've seriously guessed is "Miis" at best.

@ Evello : Keep in mind Sakurai actually said he listed Greninja as "Pokemon from X & Y" too, which is a huge credibility to the leaker. He just happened to guess what Sakurai exactly said. Isn't that a tiny bit suspicious? Same with Sakurai's unique idea of a character class. Or if somebody knew of Roy(in Melee) or Giga Bowser. I don't pretend a Pokemon from the latest games is hard to guess, but the other 3 are pretty much impossible since nobody actually knew they legitimately existed. Again, people can argue all they want, but you cannot refute the fact you cannot guess a character that doesn't freaking exist. It's not a legitimate thing and it will never be possible. If they exist beforehand, yes, you have the legitimate chance of guessing it. Anybody can. But if they don't? Not a chance. Ever. Don't bother, you did not know. Don't pretend you did. You actually had to have found out real information to get the name of a real character right.

We also knew Sal Romano purposely rewrote what he leaked from his leaker, considering the fact he refused to give us the original writings(probably because they were in Japanese). The term Goddess means nothing, as its a title that's always capitalized.

Honestly I'm more sad that Sakurai confirmed there will be no DLC, but still.

...Actually, he confirmed there will be and if Mewtwo sells well enough, there will be more. He right now needs an incentive. Also, not only is Mewtwo confirmed DLC, but so is a Miiverse stage, and every patch that comes along is a form of DLC.(just not the paid kind)

 

[Ephemiel]

...Actually, he confirmed there will be and if Mewtwo sells well enough, there will be more. He right now needs an incentive. Also, not only is Mewtwo confirmed DLC, but so is a Miiverse stage, and every patch that comes along is a form of DLC.(just not the paid kind)

Really? When did he say that? I thought he had said that they didn't have anything made since they had no plans for it and that Mewtwo was the only thing they had.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Really? When did he say that? I thought he had said that they didn't have anything made since they had no plans for it and that Mewtwo was the only thing they had.

That's part of what they said, but he said he had no plans at the time, meaning Mewtwo was going to test the waters(which he directly said too).

The article's lying around somewhere. I gotta go, but I'm sure somebody will hook you up(instead of making the asinine argument that a new Smash original character was guessable, which at this point, they're basically wasting their time, as it's not possible to guess a character that never existed at any time )

 

[Storm Eagle]

This happened:

 

[MBakhsh]

I love that some anonymous stranger looking to troll an entire community not only succeeded, but still has people fooled well after release . Damn, I hope I'm as successful as this guy was in whatever future endeavors I pursue.

Is it so difficult to realize that maybe he just knew about the E3 characters and then decided to BS everything else, knowing he'd have everybody wrapped around his finger after WFT? What's the point in leaking only those three anyway? Nobody would believe him until after WFT was announced, and she was the last of the three. So he just did what the hundreds and hundreds of other BS leakers did: take a bunch of popular and plausible picks and throw in a random WTF character to make it somehow seem more legit. Sure, maybe Chorus Kids were cut for the same reason as ICs and Chrom was somehow an assumption based off of knowledge of a Fire Emblem newcomer and Rosalina and the secret characters weren't mentioned for some other reason, but this is giving a lot of credit to a completely random guy with absolutely no credibility or even an alias to his name.

The reason I think it's not pointless to discuss this leak anymore is that I really don't want him to come back and say "hey guys Chorus Kids are gonna be DLC" and all of a sudden we're going through the same nonsense again.

Some other common fallacies:
"He said Chrom and Chrom was considered, so it's not fake, it's just outdated!" Chrom is one of the only characters we know was never planned to be in the game at any stage. Considered, but never planned. Oh, yeah, and if his information is so massively outdated, why would he only say Chrom is in almost a year after the initial "leak?" By then he would have been scrapped anyway.
"He specifically said Mii Fighters, he's obviously legit!" Okay, you got me there. Now excuse me while I go back to playing some of my personal favorite characters, "Animal Crossing Guy" and "Pokemon from X and Y."

 

[Ephemiel]

That's part of what they said, but he said he had no plans at the time, meaning Mewtwo was going to test the waters(which he directly said too).

The article's lying around somewhere. I gotta go, but I'm sure somebody will hook you up(instead of making the asinine argument that a new Smash original character was guessable, which at this point, they're basically wasting their time, as it's not possible to guess a character that never existed at any time )

So i can still hope that Sagi or Kalas from Baten Kaitos will come as DLC.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

You cannot guess Mii Fighters. No, that is not possible in any way. The character did not exist till Smash. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They are created by Sakurai first. That's complete and utter bull. Get over it and just accept that he had real information, because you're making up bullcrap excuses now.

No One predicted Mii Fighters. Seriously, get over it.

That's not how predictions work. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They're an entirely new concept that Sakurai created.

You are being way too hostile. You do realize that just because you are fanboying over the leaker, doesn't mean that anyone who thought about "Mii Fighters" before is wrong and should just bow down before the leaker?
"Mii Fighters" is a pretty generic and guessable name for the mii character slot, you know.

 

[Xermo]

Yeah, keep telling yourself he didn't invent the concept. Yes, of course he did. The concept is a special type of Mii.

No, they would not be called Mii Fighters unless they were special classes. Being able to box does not make them a Mii Fighter. The fact that they're specifically the new Fighting Team is the only reason why the term Mii Fighter makes sense. Oh, and I guess some thought they could be the new fighting team, but that doesn't have anything to do with their unique name that nobody actually guessed(because nobody legitimate did, since that's pure bull and we all know it). It did not exist before, and he did it first. This is pointless hindsight bias at its finest. He 100% created the idea, and nobody did it before nor made any attempt to.

Everybody called them Miis, and there was no special class designation. Do you know why? Nobody had any idea they were going to be split into 3 types of Fighters whatsoever. This came entirely out of left field and was fully unexpected. It was not guessable. Seriously, people need to get over this crap and just accept he had real information about a 100% new character based upon a preexisting avatar. You cannot guess what does not exist. Nobody actually does. There was zero precedence to suggest they'd be a multiple type of character as well, which means the "Fighters" part was impossible. All anyone would've seriously guessed is "Miis" at best.

You're taking this far too seriously, mate.
Sakurai didn't invent "Mii Fighters." At the very least, he coined the names "Mii Brawler," "Swordfighter" and "Gunner" (the first two being nothing new in terms of miis; gunner literally being a Mii Samus/Mega Man hybrid).

Being able to box doesn't make you a fighter? Wow, guess Little Mac is just in the game for ****s and giggles if he isn't a fighter.

"Everybody" didn't call them miis, just the leakers YOU saw. Your entire argument is based on what one guy called one character in a general sense, a fighter.

Really though, the biggest flaw in your argument is that you claim he had information about the roster. The roster was chosen prior to development of the game, excluding the clones. So why doesn't your almighty leaker mention anything about DHD? Why does he use vague and incorrect names for other characters? If anything, you're the one who's blindsided with bias; you said yourself this guy has a track record of leaking correct info, so you immediately flock to his words without a second guess? Heh.

 

[EgeDal]

Weird thing is, even though Gematsu leak is LEGIT, people keep saying it's not, lol

 

[Hayzie]

I still don't see why people think WFT is impressive. That's like top choice. I knew I shouldn't have posted ITT. I'm sorry.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think people aren't being flexible enough with their arguing.

The leak doesn't have to be totally fake or totally true. You can't see things in black or white. It's simply illogical.

The source likely had some inside info, but nothing stops someone mixing real information with fake information to twist things up for whatever reason (to cover their tracks, for pure schadenfreude, ...).

Thing is, we'll never know, but one thing is for certain: a lot of information that Gematsu leaked ended up being true. Whether or not the source had inside information or made some really lucky guesses is and will always be up to debate.

However, I think it's irrational to assume that the leak is absolutely fake just because Robin and Lucina were revealed instead of Chrom.

 

[ChikoLad]

I think people aren't being flexible enough with their arguing.

The leak doesn't have to be totally fake or totally true. You can't see things in black or white. It's simply illogical.

The source likely had some inside info, but nothing stops someone mixing real information with fake information to twist things up for whatever reason (to cover their tracks, for pure schadenfreude, ...).

Thing is, we'll never know, but one thing is for certain: a lot of information that Gematsu leaked ended up being true. Whether or not the source had inside information or made some really lucky guesses is and will always be up to debate.

However, I think it's irrational to assume that the leak is absolutely fake just because Robin and Lucina were revealed instead of Chrom.

I'll be flexible as soon as I see cold hard evidence of the other side.

It's not a matter of what it "has" to be. It's a matter of what the truth actually is. And there are absolutely no undeniable facts to support Gematsu. Only a list of characters that anyone can conjure up. Again, I myself predicted more correctly than Gematsu, without inside info. So who's to say Sal Romano isn't just a faker who did almost as well with his predictions as myself? He certainly hasn't provided us with ANYTHING to suggest he is anything more than that.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think both sides need to calm down a bit. The temperatures are unnecessarily high.

 

[Ephemiel]

I think both sides need to calm down a bit. The temperatures are unnecessarily high.

I guess we can say that they're both really feeling it.

But really, i don't even understand how a simple leak made this argument possible.

 

[lijero13ss]

Yeah, keep telling yourself he didn't invent the concept. Yes, of course he did. The concept is a special type of Mii.

No, they would not be called Mii Fighters unless they were special classes. Being able to box does not make them a Mii Fighter. The fact that they're specifically the new Fighting Team is the only reason why the term Mii Fighter makes sense. Oh, and I guess some thought they could be the new fighting team, but that doesn't have anything to do with their unique name that nobody actually guessed(because nobody legitimate did, since that's pure bull and we all know it). It did not exist before, and he did it first. This is pointless hindsight bias at its finest. He 100% created the idea, and nobody did it before nor made any attempt to.

Everybody called them Miis, and there was no special class designation. Do you know why? Nobody had any idea they were going to be split into 3 types of Fighters whatsoever. This came entirely out of left field and was fully unexpected. It was not guessable. Seriously, people need to get over this crap and just accept he had real information about a 100% new character based upon a preexisting avatar. You cannot guess what does not exist. Nobody actually does. There was zero precedence to suggest they'd be a multiple type of character as well, which means the "Fighters" part was impossible. All anyone would've seriously guessed is "Miis" at best.

@ Evello : Keep in mind Sakurai actually said he listed Greninja as "Pokemon from X & Y" too, which is a huge credibility to the leaker. He just happened to guess what Sakurai exactly said. Isn't that a tiny bit suspicious? Same with Sakurai's unique idea of a character class. Or if somebody knew of Roy(in Melee) or Giga Bowser. I don't pretend a Pokemon from the latest games is hard to guess, but the other 3 are pretty much impossible since nobody actually knew they legitimately existed. Again, people can argue all they want, but you cannot refute the fact you cannot guess a character that doesn't freaking exist. It's not a legitimate thing and it will never be possible. If they exist beforehand, yes, you have the legitimate chance of guessing it. Anybody can. But if they don't? Not a chance. Ever. Don't bother, you did not know. Don't pretend you did. You actually had to have found out real information to get the name of a real character right.

We also knew Sal Romano purposely rewrote what he leaked from his leaker, considering the fact he refused to give us the original writings(probably because they were in Japanese). The term Goddess means nothing, as its a title that's always capitalized.


...Actually, he confirmed there will be and if Mewtwo sells well enough, there will be more. He right now needs an incentive. Also, not only is Mewtwo confirmed DLC, but so is a Miiverse stage, and every patch that comes along is a form of DLC.(just not the paid kind)

omg lol you sound like a kid. Seriously, Mii = Mii Fighters. They just added the word "fighter" at the end of the name. That's it. Very simple concept.

If i make a Mii, and i can use that Mii in SSB4, then that means Mii's are playable in tha game.

Again, i will repeat, a Mii is the same as a Mii Fighter.

Another example, if, lets say, MK8, had the playable Mii character named as "Mii Driver", then they are completely different from the Mii and can never be associated as the same thing? Please.

Mii = Mii Fighter. End of discussion.

 

[Hayzie]

I could have sworn it was Mii Swimmer.... alas, the 3ds version...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You are being way too hostile. You do realize that just because you are fanboying over the leaker, doesn't mean that anyone who thought about "Mii Fighters" before is wrong and should just bow down before the leaker?
"Mii Fighters" is a pretty generic and guessable name for the mii character slot, you know.

Don't make assumptions. I have tons of suspicions over tons of what he said. I never really believed he was 100% legit, and you'd know that if you read all I said. I do believe he had insider information on a character that did not exist. Since it is impossible to guess someone who wasn't real before, saying anybody could've guessed it is beyond ludicrous. Of course they couldn't have. Nobody knew who Mii Fighters were whatsoever, or what the heck they were about. Everybody actually guessed Miis and nothing else, and it's blatant we all know that.

If you honestly think people thought there was some "special class" that Sakurai would do, then you didn't read any leaks whatsoever. That was beyond unexpected and he took everybody by surprise. The whole idea of Miis being your avatar that you could customize was expected. What wasn't was the class idea whatsoever.

I cannot accept anybody can guess characters who seriously never existed before. It doesn't make a lick of sense. It's just basically a troll idea that it could be possible. In the real world, completely non-existent characters can not be guessed. Yes, everybody else was guessable because they existed. Normal Miis were. Mii Fighters? I don't think so. Actually, anybody who understand logic fully understands this. Don't be blind by hindsight. It doesn't seriously work that way and cannot.

Frankly, if you think I will ever believe that was possible, either provide proof of another leak in the severe past that had that name, otherwise there's zero evidence to suggest it's legitimately possible, especially since again, they do not exist at the time. It's still just as ridiculous as saying you guessed Giga Bowser or Roy(FE). Anybody who actually thought they'd exist without insider information would be completely unbelievable because they cannot cite their origin. Every character has an origin. Anybody who originates in the game being leaked cannot be guessed due to never existing before. Yes, I'm repeating myself, but it's necessary if people want to ignore basic logic just for the sole purpose of refusing to believe a person was legit when they actually were beyond a shadow of a doubt. I agree entirely that Sal Romano's leaker could be lying about some bits, but that's about it.

 

[Evello]

Don't make assumptions. I have tons of suspicions over tons of what he said. I never really believed he was 100% legit, and you'd know that if you read all I said. I do believe he had insider information on a character that did not exist. Since it is impossible to guess someone who wasn't real before, saying anybody could've guessed it is beyond ludicrous. Of course they couldn't have. Nobody knew who Mii Fighters were whatsoever, or what the heck they were about. Everybody actually guessed Miis and nothing else, and it's blatant we all know that.

If you honestly think people thought there was some "special class" that Sakurai would do, then you didn't read any leaks whatsoever. That was beyond unexpected and he took everybody by surprise. The whole idea of Miis being your avatar that you could customize was expected. What wasn't was the class idea whatsoever.

I cannot accept anybody can guess characters who seriously never existed before. It doesn't make a lick of sense. It's just basically a troll idea that it could be possible. In the real world, completely non-existent characters can not be guessed. Yes, everybody else was guessable because they existed. Normal Miis were. Mii Fighters? I don't think so. Actually, anybody who understand logic fully understands this. Don't be blind by hindsight. It doesn't seriously work that way and cannot.

Frankly, if you think I will ever believe that was possible, either provide proof of another leak in the severe past that had that name, otherwise there's zero evidence to suggest it's legitimately possible, especially since again, they do not exist at the time. It's still just as ridiculous as saying you guessed Giga Bowser or Roy(FE). Anybody who actually thought they'd exist without insider information would be completely unbelievable because they cannot cite their origin. Every character has an origin. Anybody who originates in the game being leaked cannot be guessed due to never existing before. Yes, I'm repeating myself, but it's necessary if people want to ignore basic logic just for the sole purpose of refusing to believe a person was legit when they actually were beyond a shadow of a doubt. I agree entirely that Sal Romano's leaker could be lying about some bits, but that's about it.

No one is saying that the leaker guessed the idea of Mii fighters in different classes. You're right, that would be nigh impossible. They're saying he simply used the words "Mii" and "fighter" together by coincidence. Just like he said "goddess" and "Palutena" together. The leaker never mentioned any kind of Mii classes. If he had said anything to indicate the scope of the Mii Fighters I would view that as conclusive proof, but he didn't. He said Mii and fighter. And when you're describing a Mii that fights, it's not a stretch to imagine he could say that with no insider knowledge.

 

[aethermaster]

To be honest I'm more curious as to what happened to the guy who leaked the 3ds version. Must've taken the full wrath of Masahiro Sakurai...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No one is saying that the leaker guessed the idea of Mii fighters in different classes. You're right, that would be nigh impossible. They're saying he simply used the words "Mii" and "fighter" together by coincidence. Just like he said "goddess" and "Palutena" together. The leaker never mentioned any kind of Mii classes. If he had said anything to indicate the scope of the Mii Fighters I would view that as conclusive proof, but he didn't. He said Mii and fighter. And when you're describing a Mii that fights, it's not a stretch to imagine he could say that with no insider knowledge.

There was no coincidence he got that at the right time. It's a severe stretch he could guess the exact characters that would revealed the next day. Nobody gets both on the dot whatsoever. It does not happen.

The fact he got a few wrong before means getting them perfectly means he had to have known it. That "Goddess" crap is beyond useless. It's a description of her being. Sal always translated, and was told slightly wrong about her name. However, getting the name of an entirely new never seen before character and exact character right regardless... that's blatantly not a coincidence.

 

[ChikoLad]

To be honest I'm more curious as to what happened to the guy who leaked the 3ds version. Must've taken the full wrath of Masahiro Sakurai...

He was sued by NOA for like, 20 million USD, if I recall correctly.

 

[Naoshi]

He was sued by NOA for like, 20 million USD, if I recall correctly.

damn that guy is screwed for life it seems

 

[Luigi#1]

[clears throat]
[Opens mouth]
...
Actually...

Screw this.

 

[lijero13ss]

[clears throat]
[Opens mouth]
...
Actually...

Screw this.

Lol

 

[Deleted member 245254]

He was sued by NOA for like, 20 million USD, if I recall correctly.

Source?

 

[Merkabo]

I don't understand why any of this matters. It's the equivalent of high school gossip. O_o

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

Nobody knew who Mii Fighters were whatsoever, or what the heck they were about. Everybody actually guessed Miis and nothing else, and it's blatant we all know that.

I'm still confused here on your reasoning. Please keep in mind I'm not trying to be aggressive, I just want to have discussion.
One of your main annoyances right now seems to be the fact that "Mii Fighters is conclusive since they weren't a character before."
The thing I'm confused on is that you seem to speak for the entire world of Smashers when you say things like "No one could have ever guessed -Mii Fighters-!" But as many people have already mentioned, it's not hard to take "Mii" (which was already a highly speculated and wanted character) and put "Fighters" next to it. Heck, I even vividly remember one of my Smash friends here back home who was always saying things like "I hope Sakurai doesn't make/reveal Mii fighters" whenever a direct rolled around (this was before E3 of course).

I do apologize for the "fanboy" assumption though. It was out of line and I only said it because I was put off by the aggression you were showing.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

To be fair, @ Verde Coeden Scalesworth , we theorized with friends that Miis could have an original moveset for Smash, and be called Mii Fighter, before the E3.

Fighter is a generic word, that should be common in a fighting game.



About the Gematsu leak? I believe it's partially true. At least the first 3 characters: Wii Fit Trainer, Villager and Megaman. Although the WFT is not as obscure as the Savvy Stylist for example, it's not the character that cross the mind of every gamers.

Miis were easy guesses, and so is Pac-Man, considering Megaman (and the return of Sonic was given too).

The rest of the leak are guesses to me, with the Chorus Kids being the curveball. The fact that we have absolutely no news from the "leaker" since the Robin/Lucina trailer reinforce that feeling.

 

[spader13]

There was no coincidence he got that at the right time. It's a severe stretch he could guess the exact characters that would revealed the next day. Nobody gets both on the dot whatsoever. It does not happen.

The fact he got a few wrong before means getting them perfectly means he had to have known it. That "Goddess" crap is beyond useless. It's a description of her being. Sal always translated, and was told slightly wrong about her name. However, getting the name of an entirely new never seen before character and exact character right regardless... that's blatantly not a coincidence.

But his timing wasn't even always right. He said we'd be getting Shulk hours before the trailer when Robin and Lucina were revealed. I highly doubt that they chose to swap out a trailer's character last minute.

I believe it's likely he had some legitimate information originally (seeing the first E3 characters early, and possibly seeing Miis early the next time), but overall, I don't believe the rest of the leak was just "outdated information".

That said, while I never would have predicted WFT, I was talking to a friend who doesn't follow Nintendo closely about Amiibos, and he was surprised that WFT wasn't in earlier versions of Smash (the last game he played was Melee and didn't realize how Wii Fit lined up with Brawl's release). While an anecdote isn't much use in arguing that WFT could have been a random, lucky guess, it does add a little credence to that theory (although I think the original 6 was probably based on real info).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But his timing wasn't even always right. He said we'd be getting Shulk hours before the trailer when Robin and Lucina were revealed. I highly doubt that they chose to swap out a trailer's character last minute.

No, he did not say we'll "get that character". This is severe misinformation. He implied the character was coming, but never made any specific date known. It's only specific the character exists, but was not actually telling us when. People severely take that out of context. The timing of the actual information made people believe it was coming the next day, and they even covered that later too. That's the one time where his timing wasn't giving us whatsoever a date for the reveal, it just was solely assumed. I don't blame people for that, due to the timing, but if he meant that exact data, he would've specified some kind of date or "Enjoy my good friend, Shulk, who is the next trailer." The boled part was assumed, but never said in any real fashion.

I believe it's likely he had some legitimate information originally (seeing the first E3 characters early, and possibly seeing Miis early the next time), but overall, I don't believe the rest of the leak was just "outdated information".

It blatantly applies to Rosalina, and the reveal dates, which he got few right, which is a type of outdated information, is a very key point. And nah, nobody saw Mii Fighters that day along with Palutena exactly. No reason was even given why they were shown together(which only people who saw the video first could understand why), being a custom moves thing(they all had super unique ones).

That said, while I never would have predicted WFT, I was talking to a friend who doesn't follow Nintendo closely about Amiibos, and he was surprised that WFT wasn't in earlier versions of Smash (the last game he played was Melee and didn't realize how Wii Fit lined up with Brawl's release). While an anecdote isn't much use in arguing that WFT could have been a random, lucky guess, it does add a little credence to that theory (although I think the original 6 was probably based on real info).

Getting half of the exact ones and suddenly not the others is why it was outdated. He knew a few ideal release trailer dates, which clearly got changed. There is some information that had to be. Whether or not that applies to Chrom/Chorus Kids is another story. Chorus Kids is too unknown to conclude they could've been planned, but Sakurai has implied that's possible, and he pretty much had to have a list to thrown Greninja's old codename(Pokemon from X & Y) under. He outright specified he had a slot saved for that type of Pokemon. Developers still use simple pen and paper, since computers are too unreliable to keep a small data list up. Having some ideal lists is faster to access(since going through tons of files for a tiny list is overcomplicating things), and it's faster to pass around to his members. Likewise, it does explain the weird names too. If the leaker never saw any videos, than he only had ideal names to go off of, which can include Animal Crossing Guy or Goddess Palutena. The thing is, none of these are really that incorrect, and can be titles or codenames and they make perfect sense.

 

[LancerStaff]

In which case, that does mean he still had real information before us. That's not impossible, I admit. Which still makes him legit, regardless. I can buy that.

Still makes him a pretty big liar and mostly wrong. Never heard about him until after that E3, never believed a word, especially since I recall him saying he/his source was at E3.