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Looking back at the Gematsu leak...

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I read a lot during the hype phase that Gematsu had a reasonable amount of credibility, and there would no reason to lie about such things. It was a popular counter argument, or the that the website would not even post the information if it weren't of at least some reliable source.

Post release we can see that this leak was hamfisted at best, arguably some of it may have been accurately leaked, but most definitely some of it was BSed.

So what happened to whistleblower (Romano was it?) Did he ever explain anymore about his inaccuracies or was there a "Gotcha!" moment I missed? Did he indeed lose credibility? Was there any aftermath?
 

the8thark

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Who cares! Let's play smash!
I have to agree with this. Either you're playing the game now or waiting 2 days / 1 week for the game to be released. Some random hasbeen leaker doesn't really matter anymore.
 

Xevious 1

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It seems more than just a coincidence that they got Villager, Mega Man, WFT, Little Mac, Greninja, Mii Fighters, Palutena, Pac-Man, and Shulk all right.
 

ItsBearTime

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It seems more than just a coincidence that they got Villager, Mega Man, WFT, Little Mac, Greninja, Mii Fighters, Palutena, Pac-Man, and Shulk all right.
Especially considering Chrom was definitely considered, at some point before Robin was chosen instead. My theory is that Gematsu guy was going on info that was outdated (that or very lucky). Chrous Kids remain an enigma, though.
 

Untouch

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I still think this what was originally planned.

Chorus kids were probably cut because it sounded like they were going to be multiple characters, that's why there's so many rhythm heaven trophies yet no music or stage.
 

Xermo

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We can never truly leave the past behind, can we.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

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Who cares! Let's play smash!
I have to agree with this. Either you're playing the game now or waiting 2 days / 1 week for the game to be released. Some random hasbeen leaker doesn't really matter anymore.
Can't play Smash while at work guys, otherwise trust me, I'd be playing. We can't all remain at home the whole day playing it, as much as I'd like that. Just making conversation.
 
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Aunt Jemima

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Can't play Smash while at work guys, otherwise trust me, I'd be playing. We can't all remain at home the whole day playing it, as much as I'd like that. Just making conversation.
Zipzo, get back to work. /s
 
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Pazzo.

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I'd say that the Gematsu leaker had some old information, old enough to list "Pokémon from X and Y" and Chorus Kids. Of course, Chrom was considered, but the leaker more likely saw "Character from Fire Emblem Awakening" and assumed that the trend of adding the latest lord would continue.
 

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Why are we talking about that **** when Smash Bros. is already out? And who gives a damn about it anyways?
 

Kapus

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Why are we talking about that **** when Smash Bros. is already out? And who gives a damn about it anyways?
Well, of course the truth about the information won't affect how the game is right now, but it was still an interesting happening and I can see why people would still be curious about it.

I honestly think that the info in the leak was really just old, and the likes of Chrom and Chorus Kids were just dated ideas. I don't believe Romano or whoever said anything new about it since, so there's no way to really tell.
 

Naoshi

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What is with some of the hostility? I swear some of you people are absolutely hostile towards others for no reason. Some people are curious about the aftermath of the Gematsu leak. It was one of the most interesting leaks due to its high accuracy and sudden downfall.
 
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S_B

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Especially considering Chrom was definitely considered, at some point before Robin was chosen instead. My theory is that Gematsu guy was going on info that was outdated (that or very lucky). Chrous Kids remain an enigma, though.
Don't forget that Rhythm Heaven is the only Nintendo franchise represented by enemies in Smash Run that doesn't have (or at one time, HAD) a playable character. Yeah, there are plenty of Namco enemies, but Namco put their stamp on this game pretty damn hard so it's to be expected...

Chorus Kids were definitely being considered at one point, too, but I'm guessing they were cut for the same reason ICs were.

But yeah, Sal had old information about the roster, but it WAS a genuine leak, for sure.

Before Sal, no one even considered WFT to BE a character, let alone one that could show up in SSB. And villager? Sakurai had previously said that he felt AC to be "too peaceful" for it to field a rep for SSB. Ergo, if you suggested an AC rep, everyone would've rammed that quote in your face.

To get both of them right and all of the others? Yeah, Sal had real (but old) info.

He's still 8/10 right, BTW, and given we know Chorus Kids were planned as well, the only one he got wrong is Chrom (who is still in the game, still has a player-quality model...).
 
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ProjectAngel

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Gematsu simply had slightly outdated info. Chrom may have been considered due to his popularity, but of course, we know what happened with him.

As for the Chorus Kids... were the Sneaky Spirits we saw in the E3 demos of the game just a red herring?
 

Hayzie

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As I said before, I will reiterate once more: If you sat down (or you can stand, lay, hang upside-down) and wrote down a list of eligible characters from Nintendo franchises to enter the next Smash, you would come up with an identical list to Gematsu.

All this "but WFT is so random, you can't just guess that" is pretty not all that well-thought out. Quite frankly, I thought it. it's a perfect fit. Someone who was born into a series that is not only athletic, but full of moves? Durr.

I can't believe some people were even saying Villager and Rosalina were a surprise. Do people even pay attention to gaming series and what's within? The only reason why Gematsu was so popular is because not everyone in the world is gonna make a leak just for huge publicity. If we all threw our lists out there, Gematsu would just be a name people are still wondering about. Perhaps some information was known and they definitely knew about it, but otherwise the list was always full of not lucky guesses, but instead logical guesses. Thus I always saw them as true at the same time never caring for the leak, either.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Gematsu simply had slightly outdated info. Chrom may have been considered due to his popularity, but of course, we know what happened with him.

As for the Chorus Kids... were the Sneaky Spirits we saw in the E3 demos of the game just a red herring?
Probably a red herring. They're not really strong evidence Chorus Kids were planned at all. It could be any actual Rhythm Heaven character. He could've saw a trophy of them, while another character was meant to be playable(which means they would have a proper symbol like all playable franchises), and thought those were the two planned. We don't really know what the situation was.

Just remember that Sal Romano himself is credible, but his source may not be entirely. As for Chrom, it could've just been a poor assumption on the original data giver's part. We don't really know and Sakurai's words don't really make it sound like Chrom was considered at all early on(it instead sounds like he just wanted a new FE character, so he listed that, played through Awakening, found Chrom dull, went with Robin, then Lucina was eventually turned into a clone). It's hard to tell with the translation we got. He could've said FE:A character and the leaker assumed Chrom due to him being the main character. Not unjustified.

However, do keep in mind Sakurai did confirm that "Pokemon from X & Y" was what he listed among his planned characters. That's definitely real, and very specifically that. Greninja did not have a name back then, so course it couldn't be listed. And somebody did actually suggest Wii Fit Trainer in a joking manner for a future Smash game, so yes, people have thought about it, but it's not common whatsoever, not that it much matters, because he pretty much gave us way too much real information to ignore it. You do not get Mii Fighters wrong, since they did not exist beforehand. Everybody else can be guessed. Not easily, but possibly. You cannot guess characters that do not exist. Also, Sakurai did not plan for Roy right away in Melee either, and listed him as "Fire_Emblem" originally, meaning it could've been any FE character. It's not hard to believe he did the same for "Chrom" and was inproperly guessed. In addition, since no X/Y characters had their names released, the original leaker(not who spoke for him, Sal) can't list a name if he doesn't know who they are. He can list Chrom, clearly. Can he list Greninja, who doesn't exist to his knowledge? I don't think so.

While the ratio was almost entirely correct, we shouldn't assume he could never have made up or guessed a thing or two. That's a bit silly. There's no telling how or why he listed Chrom, and there's a possible suggestion Chorus Kids were planned, but nothing that proves it whatsoever. The Smash Run enemies are not good enough proof at all. Sakurai can clearly represent series in any way he wants, and it doesn't actually mean playable. Many series have trophies yet no playable characters or enemies/stages/etc. Doesn't mean he ever wanted them playable. That's assuming a little too much. In other words, no, we cannot legitimately say Chorus Kids were planned as we have no playable data(the only real way to prove it) available.

There's at least data of Chrom doing an attack that could suggest the leaker thought he was playable. That's more than Chorus Kids have, which is very much data that doesn't hold any substancial water. Honestly, it's as good as saying that Sakurai wanted to have Ridley playable(before the latest interview, in which case, he does imply he tried but didn't think it would work).
 
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Naoshi

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As I said before, I will reiterate once more: If you sat down (or you can stand, lay, hang upside-down) and wrote down a list of eligible characters from Nintendo franchises to enter the next Smash, you would come up with an identical list to Gematsu.
So many people did that with their predictions and got it wrong big time. Like, to be honest, outside of some characters, Smash Bros 4's roster wasn't exactly easy to predict. Gematsu's source predicted so much right is kind of the thing. I mean if he only got Wii Fit Trainer and got almost everyone else wrong, then I'd be suspicious, but IDK... he got so many characters right.
 
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Hayzie

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So many people did that with their predictions and got it wrong big time. Like, to be honest, outside of some characters, Smash Bros 4's roster wasn't exactly easy to predict. Gematsu's source predicted so much right is kind of the thing. I mean if he only got Wii Fit Trainer and got almost everyone else wrong, then I'd be suspicious, but IDK... he got so many characters right.
I am being honest. It came off as no surprise. if you made a list of main characters from franchises, you'd get pretty close. Lanky Kong or Geno or someone randomly obscure would be pretty lame. Who else would fit the bill of Nintendo franchises other than the big names, especially recent games is an absolute no-brainer.

Which reminds me. Did Gematsu ever say Duck Hunt?
 

Naoshi

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I am being honest. It came off as no surprise. if you made a list of main characters from franchises, you'd get pretty close. Lanky Kong or Geno or someone randomly obscure would be pretty lame. Who else would fit the bill of Nintendo franchises other than the big names, especially recent games is an absolute no-brainer.

Which reminds me. Did Gematsu ever say Duck Hunt?
Thing is though, I've known people who wrote realistic predictions and still gets them wrong. Many people expected Takamaru and some other expected characters that simply did not happen at all.

I've wrote a theory on this many months ago, I feel it's worth a read on why I feel he was legit. My theory may or may not be outdated by now though.
http://smashboards.com/threads/potential-roster-stage-leak-thread.364914/page-296#post-17472234

He didn't mention Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, Rosalina and the clones. However, the clones were not planned in the initial roster, so he likely did not hear about them at all. As for the other 3, he was leaking characters by waves. Rosalina was revealed between the first and second wave of the leak. He probably could've leaked more but when the leak got things wrong later, Sal probably went quiet because he didn't want to risk any more of his credibility when his source was telling him things.

Outside of Rosalina, every newcomer he did not reveal were unlockables. So take that as you will!
 
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FalKoopa

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Last I remember, after the leak was wrecked by the Robin-Lucina trailer, Sal posted that he had no idea why that happened and he would get back at the leaker. We haven't heard from him since.
 

Naoshi

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Last I remember, after the leak was wrecked by the Robin-Lucina trailer, Sal posted that he had no idea why that happened and he would get back at the leaker. We haven't heard from him since.
Did Sal disappear or something? Or was it just the leaker we haven't heard from again?
 

the8thark

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You're speaking generally of course, yes?
I was speaking generally with a slight joke about the Melee fans who insist that living in the Melee past is the only way and refuse to look any kind of smash future.
 

ChikoLad

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The Gematsu leak had been proven false as early as Rosalina & Luma. While people would still like to hang out it even after that, Robin and Lucina were the nails in the coffin, never mind that other predictions are nowhere to be seen.

The majority of his list was made up of EXTREMELY commonly speculated characters. So I don't find it unusual that many of his predictions came true, since I was expecting them even without Gematsu's interference.

If we're gonna go by the "well the majority of his predictions were right" logic, then I guess that means I am a more credible source than him, since I had more correct predictions than he did. Only characters I didn't even slightly see coming was Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt Duo (though I thought Mr. Peepers, the dog, would be an Assist Trophy). And while I didn't predict "Villager" and Greninja specifically, I did think a character from Animal Crossing and Pokémon X/Y was going to show up, which is no different to Gematsu's own "Animal Crossing Guy" and "Pokémon from X & Y" predictions.

Everyone else was on my radar.

So no, the logic of "his predictions were mostly correct" does not make him anymore credible than anyone on this forum.

If he wants to prove that he was legit at this point, he's gonna have to leak photos that are clearly from inside the development studio or something like that. But he can't do that, because the leaker was not legit (or there was no leaker, and Sal Romano was just talking ****...he never did clearly show us he was receiving e-mails from another person in the first place).
 

Naoshi

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Animal Crossing Guy was obviously referring to Villager. You gotta consider the fact he might've not known Villager's English name as his name was entirely different in Japanese. This is also the first Smash Bros game to refer him as such too. I seriously don't think "Animal Crossing Guy" should be a mark against him. As for Rosalina, just because he did not mention her doesn't mean it was false, he did not ever at any point said the 6 characters he revealed first were all of the newcomers. He was revealing characters by waves. Rosalina just happens to be revealed before the 2nd wave of that leak happened.

Also, taking photos of the development studio for proof? Uh, good luck doing that and not get caught dude.
 
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Nielicus

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Why are we talking about that **** when Smash Bros. is already out? And who gives a damn about it anyways?
This, we can't talk about the **** forever lol
 
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ChikoLad

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Animal Crossing Guy was obviously referring to Villager. You gotta consider the fact he might've not known Villager's English name as his name was entirely different in Japanese. This is also the first Smash Bros game to refer him as such too. I seriously don't think "Animal Crossing Guy" should be a mark against him. As for Rosalina, just because he did not mention her doesn't mean it was false, he did not ever at any point said the 6 characters he revealed first were all of the newcomers. He was revealing characters by waves. Rosalina just happens to be revealed before the 2nd wave of that leak happened.

Also, taking photos of the development studio for proof? Uh, good luck doing that and not get caught dude.
Why should "Animal Crossing Guy" be a point in his favour, then? It could have been literally any male character in the franchise. Tom Nook and Mr. Resetti are the most iconic AC characters, so if someone did not know who their names were but recognised them as AC characters, they could just as easily call them "Animal Crossing Guy".

And Rosalina is a point against him because I don't know how you could miss a character further along in development than most of the cast (she was revealed almost an entire year before the game's release) who is one of the most popular characters from Nintendo's flagship franchise, yet still list characters who are much less recognisable, assuming you do have access to legitimate information, or even early versions of the game.

Also, taking photos of the development studio for proof? Uh, good luck doing that and not get caught dude.
I'm well aware of the ramifications of that, but it's irrelevant. I do not expect the "leaker" (again, Sal Romano never gave us undeniable proof that he had any outside source, he simply claimed this and everyone bought it) to leak us anything that undeniable on the grounds that I don't believe the Gematsu leak is legit at all.

Those video leaks with Bowser and Shulk were a legit leak, and we could tell right off the bat because Nintendo immediately took action. There is no way Nintendo didn't know anything about the Gematsu leak, as it was headlined everywhere. Even GameXplain did multiple videos on it, and we know for a fact that someone at Nintendo watches their channel considering they get invited to preview events and get review copies and all of that jazz. If it was a legit leak, we would have heard of Nintendo's action against the guy long ago, because there is no way they don't know about the Gematsu "leak" considering how much everyone talked about it.
 

Naoshi

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Why should "Animal Crossing Guy" be a point in his favour, then? It could have been literally any male character in the franchise. Tom Nook and Mr. Resetti are the most iconic AC characters, so if someone did not know who their names were but recognised them as AC characters, they could just as easily call them "Animal Crossing Guy".
This is such a stretch and a very ridiculous one at that. He referred the character as "Animal Crossing Guy" not "an Animal Crossing Guy". Funfact, the trophy for villager was called Animal Crossing Boy in Brawl.

And Rosalina is a point against him because I don't know how you could miss a character further along in development than most of the cast (she was revealed almost an entire year before the game's release) who is one of the most popular characters from Nintendo's flagship franchise, yet still list characters who are much less recognisable, assuming you do have access to legitimate information, or even early versions of the game.
You've missed the point entirely. He missed Rosalina because he did not name EVERYONE in the first round of the leak. He only named SIX characters. And he has never once claimed that was all of them or ever claimed Rosalina was not in the game.

I'm well aware of the ramifications of that, but it's irrelevant. I do not expect the "leaker" (again, Sal Romano never gave us undeniable proof that he had any outside source, he simply claimed this and everyone bought it) to leak us anything that undeniable on the grounds that I don't believe the Gematsu leak is legit at all.

Those video leaks with Bowser and Shulk were a legit leak, and we could tell right off the bat because Nintendo immediately took action. There is no way Nintendo didn't know anything about the Gematsu leak, as it was headlined everywhere. Even GameXplain did multiple videos on it, and we know for a fact that someone at Nintendo watches their channel considering they get invited to preview events and get review copies and all of that jazz. If it was a legit leak, we would have heard of Nintendo's action against the guy long ago, because there is no way they don't know about the Gematsu "leak" considering how much everyone talked about it.
The leaker was completely anonymous and didn't give too much away, whereas the ESRB leaker got caught with the photos (people have took the ESRB pictures and did something to them to identify the name of the monitor and such, which likely helped track him down).
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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No, we have 100% proof real information was gotten. Mii Fighter. That was an original character made by Sakurai that was not revealed to anyone outside of the workers there. At least till the worldwide reveal. He did get Mii before, which was guessable, but you can't guess a character that was not introduced till Smash.

You cannot deny he had real information. That's not possible at all due to this alone.

Anybody else is guessable, except Mii Fighter. Period.
 

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I don't believe Gematsu leak was for real.

The only impressive thing was getting Wii Fit Trainer right, every other character in the list was an obvious choice (yes, even Villager, who was very requested even back in Brawl times)

****, WFT aside, every single character who was a surprising choice was not predicted.

Greninja was never directly mentioned.

Robin and Lucina were nowhere to be seen.

Bowser Jr.? Not mentioned at all.

No Dark Pit.

What about Duck Hunt?

Not even Rosalina was predicted, and that wasn't such a big surprise for anyone.

And that's not to mention the blatant contradictions like Chrom, as well as the freaking Chorus Kids who are nowhere to be seen in any form.

Wii Fit Trainer's prediction was impressive. Everything else was very guessable, and when you couple it with the innaccuracies and the missing information, I really see no way for this to have ever been real.
 

ChikoLad

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No, we have 100% proof real information was gotten. Mii Fighter. That was an original character made by Sakurai that was not revealed to anyone outside of the workers there. At least till the worldwide reveal. He did get Mii before, which was guessable, but you can't guess a character that was not introduced till Smash.

You cannot deny he had real information. That's not possible at all due to this alone.

Anybody else is guessable, except Mii Fighter. Period.
Everyone guessed Miis, and Mii Fighter is an easily associated name since that's literally what they do in this game. And even most people still call them "Miis" even after release, so I don't see how the addition of the very generic word "fighter" means anything. If their names were "Mii Swarm Fighters" in a hypothetical universe where Miis came from the same swarm as Master Core, and Gematsu claimed THAT kind of name, then I would believe him. Because nobody could predict that. However, anyone could blurt out the name "Mii Fighters" in casual conversation.

As long as there is room to pen a prediction as guesswork, which there is with EVERY prediction he made, then he has no case. I've already pointed out how assuming he's credible based on his predictions is flawed logic, because by that logic, I've got more inside knowledge than him.

This is such a stretch and a very ridiculous one at that. He referred the character as "Animal Crossing Guy" not "an Animal Crossing Guy". Funfact, the trophy for villager was called Animal Crossing Boy in Brawl.


You've missed the point entirely. He missed Rosalina because he did not name EVERYONE in the first round of the leak. He only named SIX characters. And he has never once claimed that was all of them or ever claimed Rosalina was not in the game.


The leaker was completely anonymous and didn't give too much away, whereas the ESRB leaker got caught with the photos (people have took the ESRB pictures and did something to them to identify the name of the monitor and such, which likely helped track him down).
How is it a stretch to believe that someone who recognised a character from AC but didn't know their name would call any character from the series in that situation "Animal Crossing Guy"? I've even heard people call Link "the Zelda guy" because they recognise him, but don't know his name.

Rosalina may not mean much on her own (I still think even one unaccounted for character is a huge blow against his credibility, especially since she was easily predictable by the time her reveal came and therefore, would have gone unnoticed by Nintendo. He could have easily leaked her name out, like he attempted to do with Robin's trailer, only he tried to say it would be Shulk), but you're forgetting that she's not the only one he forgot to mention, and that multiple characters he said would be playable never made it in either.

Also, the ESRB leaker you refer to was not from the ESRB, he was actually from Nintendo. The footage he took was from the video he was to give to the ESRB.

If the Gematsu leak was real and Nintendo wanted to apprehend the leaker, it wouldn't be that hard to track him down, since he apparently communicated with Sal Romano over e-mail. Nintendo could easily ask his e-mail provider for access to the account on the grounds that he is illegally spreading information. Keep in mind that Sal Romano is the owner of a forum, so that means he's open to tracking. Nintendo never did anything with him from what we know though, so they probably knew he was fake.

So I believe Sal Romano never had an outside source to begin with. He has never proven that he has. He showed us pictures of the e-mails, but it's very easy for anyone to send themselves e-mails, or to set up a new account (he didn't show the address either way, so he didn't even disprove the theory that he simply sent it to himself with his own e-mail address). I believe all of the information came out of Sal Romano's ***.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Everyone guessed Miis, and Mii Fighter is an easily associated name since that's literally what they do in this game. And even most people still call them "Miis" even after release, so I don't see how the addition of the very generic word "fighter" means anything. If their names were "Mii Swarm Fighters" in a hypothetical universe where Miis came from the same swarm as Master Core, and Gematsu claimed THAT kind of name, then I would believe him. Because nobody could predict that. However, anyone could blurt out the name "Mii Fighters" in casual conversation.

As long as there is room to pen a prediction as guesswork, which there is with EVERY prediction he made, then he has no case. I've already pointed out how assuming he's credible based on his predictions is flawed logic, because by that logic, I've got more inside knowledge than him.
You cannot guess Mii Fighters. No, that is not possible in any way. The character did not exist till Smash. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They are created by Sakurai first. That's complete and utter bull. Get over it and just accept that he had real information, because you're making up bullcrap excuses now.

No, you're using severely flawed logic. It does not work that way. You do not predict almost the entire roster that you specifically gave out as correct. You do not predict a character does not exist yet. Mii Fighters are the exact same thing as Roy, two characters(technically 4) who originated in Smash. Let it go and just move on. They cannot be predicted if they do not exist. Period. That point will never hold water on your part. I don't care if he guessed most of the roster, but one cannot be guessed no matter what. It's quite literally impossible, and the chances of him guessing almost every character perfect, and Mii Fighters, who do not exist, it just way too impossible. He clearly had inside information. No, Wii Fit Trainer is not easy to guess. Not even close. Villager didn't even have a name till Smash 4, and was pretty much called Animal Crossing Boy, which Animal Crossing Guy means the same thing. Guy and any usage of Male are completely interchangeable. It's damn obvious what he meant.

Your crap about Rosalina is also wrong. He didn't list it because he didn't get a chance. No other reason. He's beyond credible, and to be frank, it's way more likely that Chrom and Chorus Men were cut later on. You know why he didn't get some later characters? Because perhaps, oh, I don't know, they were added later? Sakurai added the clones and Robin late into the game. How can he know Lucina or Robin when they weren't added before Palutena's reveal? Or likely weren't. You're making a lot of poor assumptions while completely ignoring what Sakurai said. FYI, he 100% got "Pokemon from X & Y" just as Sakurai listed it, since he outright admitted that's how he listed it. That's one hell of an exact coincidence, now isn't it. In fact, it even further implies Sakurai had a smaller list, which the guy read and gave to us. Amazing how he got Lucas' cut, DLC characters, and Mii Fighter(again, this is not guessable since they do not exist no matter what anyone says. Don't be ridiculous, they're new characters in every way and originated in Smash. That's as dumb as believing somebody guessed Roy from Fire Emblem, who didn't exist yet either), and got all but 2 characters wrong. But here's the kicker; We know Sakurai considered Chrom. That's a fact. We know Sakurai made a list since "Pokemon from X & Y" was on it. The chances of Chrom being on there are extremely high. Due to poor translations, Considered and Planned can be treated the same way. So even the interview isn't good enough as a reason to act like Chrom was not planned. The fact that Smash Run somehow has only enemies from playable franchises except a proven cut character(Ice Climbers) makes it beyond suspicious that somehow Chorus Men have an enemy too. While it's not cold hard proof they were planned, them being planned is beyond believable, and there's enough to suggest it's true, and them being cut is very likely a 3DS issue just like Ice Climbers, due to their multi-character style. Unless there's any proof they were definitely not playable(which there isn't), there's actually zero evidence to suggest the guy lied, and quite a bit to show he did not. Even if some is anecdotal, it's still more than what has been given against him, way more.

Frankly, there's a point when there's nothing better to do but accept when a leaker is legit. And he got way less wrong than the Pokemon X & Y leaker, who was also completely legit. There is no way a leaker who isn't the person controlling when characters are revealed to get every character reveal right. So that's not even worth entertaining as evidence against him. Planned dates change all the time, including release dates. Anybody who pays attention to developments knows that. In addition, leakers never know everything. They can't. Outside of the main developer themselves, there's going to be pieces a person will miss. They can miss a day of work due to being sick, for instance. You're too quick to call out the guy fake, and using extremely flawed if not sometimes worthless evidence. Tom Nook and Resetti have official and exact names. Greninja did not at the time. Nor did Villager. He would've named them exactly if he could. Because Guy and Boy can easily mean the same thing, there's no reason to believe whatsoever he wasn't referring to the player character. Honestly, if somebody leaked Brawl and called Pokemon Trainer as Red due to image they saw, they'd be just as correct. Even if they got the final name wrong, they didn't get the real character wrong overall. When people see PT, they assume Red(or sometimes Ash). Until they see the name, they won't refer to them as such. But since he beyond likely had a list, he could only list the currently planned characters, in waves(which explains why Rosalina wasn't listed, and the only reason she wasn't), which doesn't necessarily include every character that gets added late. Also, the fact Lucina was added mid-development and around the same times as the clones means he could not have known about her whatsoever. It's useless data against the leaker. Oh, and my favorite part; Sakurai downright admitted he originally wanted Miis in, but found Mii Fighters to be a more original idea and went with that instead. Yes Miis were listed first, and Mii Fighters were a mid-development decision, just as it was reported for Sal's leaker. Crazy coincidence, isn't it? Or, to be more blunt, it was no coincidence. Because there's just way too many, especially if you pay attention to the real development(which it's clear you did not, as he got two exact things right just as Sakurai said, which was Mii Fighters and Pokemon from X & Y). Oh, and fyi, you're wrong about Shulk's trailer too. He did not actually say the trailer would be that day. What he said was "Enjoy my good friend Shulk", implying it could be. But since he didn't actually say that'll be the case, it's a very weak blow to him. It also further proved that where he was among the development team, reveal trailer dates wasn't the specific case. In addition, he did also specify Shulk is in without a doubt, which was not a lie either. So I have a damn hard time believing he lied, when there's a severe amount of evidence in his his favor, including Sakurai's own words. Also, Sal isn't the leaker, he's just the middle guy, and didn't make up anything. At worst he translated weirdly. Hence "Goddess Palutena". He could've just been told "Animal Crossing Boy" and used a synonym for it. There's too much in favor of the leaker, and almost zip against him. He got two characters wrong, which are completely accountable for(and only one can be argued to not be proven as someone Sakurai intended to be in at one point, and it ain't Chrom), two impossible guesses right, since one is not able to be guessed, and another that Sakurai explicitly said was the case, and two severely difficult guesses(Wii Fit Trainer and Villager's codename), and since we have proof that codenames are used, as Roy was called Fire_Emblem first, Villager's codename is more than provable as correct for the time. And it sure as hell wasn't already anmed characters, cause he just happened to name everyone else accurately, or used a slight title, which still isn't legitimately inaccurate.

And with that, I'm done. He's legit beyond a shadow of a doubt, and you haven't given a single legitimate reason why we should believe he was entirely fake. Conspiracy theories are beyond illegitimate and irrational. We go with facts. He listed, mid-development, an exact new character that did not exist anywhere at all. That cannot be guessed, no matter what, and no amount of pointless denial will change this. Nor will bullcrap theories that hold zero water either. He could only have known about it because he was still working there, and nothing else.

And to put it bluntly, I haven't seen such flimsy evidence in a long time. Terrible conspiracy theories do not make for a strong argument, if even one worth entertaining. You can believe he guessed most of the roster all you want, but denying an impossible guess is just ludicrous and severely hurts your argument. He was legit for sure. It does not mean 100% of it was legit, but guess what? Not all leakers have all the information, so it's not a zero sum game anyway.
 
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Frostwraith

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I still stand by the my opinion: it was true, but not 100% accurate.

I think it's foolish to think in extremes, as in, to think it's either 100% true or 100% false.

It has some true information, but also had some wrong stuff. Either due to being taken from early planning documents that were subject to change or perhaps the source threw a few red herrings either to have an excuse if he/she was caught or to plain troll the speculators.
 

LancerStaff

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I still say he (Sal/leaker) saw the videos at E3, then guessed the rest. The Rhythm Heaven enemy is from Sakurai's trolling, and Mii Fighter was again at E3.
 

ChikoLad

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You cannot guess Mii Fighters. No, that is not possible in any way. The character did not exist till Smash. Miis are not Mii Fighters. They are created by Sakurai first. That's complete and utter bull. Get over it and just accept that he had real information, because you're making up bullcrap excuses now.

No, you're using severely flawed logic. It does not work that way. You do not predict almost the entire roster that you specifically gave out as correct. You do not predict a character does not exist yet. Mii Fighters are the exact same thing as Roy, two characters(technically 4) who originated in Smash. Let it go and just move on. They cannot be predicted if they do not exist. Period. That point will never hold water on your part. I don't care if he guessed most of the roster, but one cannot be guessed no matter what. It's quite literally impossible, and the chances of him guessing almost every character perfect, and Mii Fighters, who do not exist, it just way too impossible. He clearly had inside information. No, Wii Fit Trainer is not easy to guess. Not even close. Villager didn't even have a name till Smash 4, and was pretty much called Animal Crossing Boy, which Animal Crossing Guy means the same thing. Guy and any usage of Male are completely interchangeable. It's damn obvious what he meant.

Your crap about Rosalina is also wrong. He didn't list it because he didn't get a chance. No other reason. He's beyond credible, and to be frank, it's way more likely that Chrom and Chorus Men were cut later on. You know why he didn't get some later characters? Because perhaps, oh, I don't know, they were added later? Sakurai added the clones and Robin late into the game. How can he know Lucina or Robin when they weren't added before Palutena's reveal? Or likely weren't. You're making a lot of poor assumptions while completely ignoring what Sakurai said. FYI, he 100% got "Pokemon from X & Y" just as Sakurai listed it, since he outright admitted that's how he listed it. That's one hell of an exact coincidence, now isn't it. In fact, it even further implies Sakurai had a smaller list, which the guy read and gave to us. Amazing how he got Lucas' cut, DLC characters, and Mii Fighter(again, this is not guessable since they do not exist no matter what anyone says. Don't be ridiculous, they're new characters in every way and originated in Smash. That's as dumb as believing somebody guessed Roy from Fire Emblem, who didn't exist yet either), and got all but 2 characters wrong. But here's the kicker; We know Sakurai considered Chrom. That's a fact. We know Sakurai made a list since "Pokemon from X & Y" was on it. The chances of Chrom being on there are extremely high. Due to poor translations, Considered and Planned can be treated the same way. So even the interview isn't good enough as a reason to act like Chrom was not planned. The fact that Smash Run somehow has only enemies from playable franchises except a proven cut character(Ice Climbers) makes it beyond suspicious that somehow Chorus Men have an enemy too. While it's not cold hard proof they were planned, them being planned is beyond believable, and there's enough to suggest it's true, and them being cut is very likely a 3DS issue just like Ice Climbers, due to their multi-character style. Unless there's any proof they were definitely not playable(which there isn't), there's actually zero evidence to suggest the guy lied, and quite a bit to show he did not. Even if some is anecdotal, it's still more than what has been given against him, way more.

Frankly, there's a point when there's nothing better to do but accept when a leaker is legit. And he got way less wrong than the Pokemon X & Y leaker, who was also completely legit. There is no way a leaker who isn't the person controlling when characters are revealed to get every character reveal right. So that's not even worth entertaining as evidence against him. Planned dates change all the time, including release dates. Anybody who pays attention to developments knows that. In addition, leakers never know everything. They can't. Outside of the main developer themselves, there's going to be pieces a person will miss. They can miss a day of work due to being sick, for instance. You're too quick to call out the guy fake, and using extremely flawed if not sometimes worthless evidence. Tom Nook and Resetti have official and exact names. Greninja did not at the time. Nor did Villager. He would've named them exactly if he could. Because Guy and Boy can easily mean the same thing, there's no reason to believe whatsoever he wasn't referring to the player character. Honestly, if somebody leaked Brawl and called Pokemon Trainer as Red due to image they saw, they'd be just as correct. Even if they got the final name wrong, they didn't get the real character wrong overall. When people see PT, they assume Red(or sometimes Ash). Until they see the name, they won't refer to them as such. But since he beyond likely had a list, he could only list the currently planned characters, in waves(which explains why Rosalina wasn't listed, and the only reason she wasn't), which doesn't necessarily include every character that gets added late. Also, the fact Lucina was added mid-development and around the same times as the clones means he could not have known about her whatsoever. It's useless data against the leaker. Oh, and my favorite part; Sakurai downright admitted he originally wanted Miis in, but found Mii Fighters to be a more original idea and went with that instead. Yes Miis were listed first, and Mii Fighters were a mid-development decision, just as it was reported for Sal's leaker. Crazy coincidence, isn't it? Or, to be more blunt, it was no coincidence. Because there's just way too many, especially if you pay attention to the real development(which it's clear you did not, as he got two exact things right just as Sakurai said, which was Mii Fighters and Pokemon from X & Y).

And with that, I'm done. He's legit beyond a shadow of a doubt, and you haven't given a single legitimate reason why we should believe he was entirely fake. Conspiracy theories are beyond illegitimate and irrational. We go with facts. He listed, mid-development, an exact new character that did not exist anywhere at all. That cannot be guessed, no matter what, and no amount of pointless denial will change this. Nor will bullcrap theories that hold zero water either. He could only have known about it because he was still working there, and nothing else.
I didn't ask for your love letter to him.

Everything you said here is completely irrelevant because he has given us no proof that he was basing his claims of a legitimate piece of information, be it early design documents, early builds, or the word of the dev team. All we have as a list of names that people took a little more seriously than other people's list of names for some reason.

Frankly, there's a point when there's nothing better to do but accept when a leaker is legit.


Please, please, don't ever work in law, be it a police officer, judge, or anything of the sort. That is the most naive thing I think I have ever heard someone say in my entire life.

He's innocent until proven guilty. He has not been proven guilty without a shadow of a doubt. You're basing your claims off of his word alone and your pre-conception that absolutely nobody but Sakurai could coin the name "Mii Fighters", and not off of whether or not he gave us any evidence at all. He has given us no evidence of his source's legitimacy. The lucky streak with character predictions does not count, as I myself made more correct predictions than Gematsu.

Therefore, the more logical assumption based off of evidence (or absolute lack thereof, in this case), is that he is innocent of the crime.

In a court of law, this is exactly how he would be judged. Keeping in mind that if Nintendo thought he was a real leaker, he would be brought to court on account of that.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I still say he (Sal/leaker) saw the videos at E3, then guessed the rest. The Rhythm Heaven enemy is from Sakurai's trolling, and Mii Fighter was again at E3.
In which case, that does mean he still had real information before us. That's not impossible, I admit. Which still makes him legit, regardless. I can buy that.
 
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