Little Mac = OP?

[David Bott]

75% of the players in 1vs1 Glory mode seem to play little mac and he just seems to be so strong! Its annoying when you just see the same character over and over again :'( does anyone have any advice on how to counter him? I know he is isnt very good once in the air but there anything else apart from that?

 

[Severn]

Play on the edge

Shield grab

Throw off stage

Gimp

GG

 

[Yusa]

Yeah, let him rush towards you and don't allow him to lure you in. Mac is all about his dodging and countering - so just like a real boxer - while his dash and other approaching options are rather predictable.

If you manage to get him offstage after a good shieldgrab or a punishing tilt/smash, try knocking him downwards rather than horizontally. His side b, while you can still see it coming and knock him away once more, covers WAY more space than his up-B does vertically. Sure, how well you're able to do that depends on your character, but i find most down aerials work just fine.

 

[PeterJude]

75% of the players in 1vs1 Glory mode seem to play little mac and he just seems to be so strong! Its annoying when you just see the same character over and over again :'( does anyone have any advice on how to counter him? I know he is isnt very good once in the air but there anything else apart from that?

Little Mac's entire game is based on him being on flat ground. Final Destination (For Glory Mode) is pretty much the perfect stage for him to use in that regard.

Keep in mind that he is entirely useless in the air, and has virtually no recovery. If you can get him offstage, he's done.

 

[Kokusho]

Am I the only one who think Little mac design is stupid ? You're basically overpower on the ground and worthless in the air.

If you're facing LM, you got frustrated when fighting him cause he is clearly stronger than your character, then when you manage to gimp him you get no satisfaction cause you know you're just exploiting its glairing weakness like you should.
If you're playing LM you're losing 50% of your move set and just playing with your superior ground game until you get throw out and can't do anything.

LM feels like a Tekken character put in smash with no modification. To me he just feels totally wrong as a Smash character and the fact you have to face him all the time online is anoying as hell. Also, For Glory mode only being on FD doesn't help.

 

[Hellrazor]

Am I the only one who think Little mac design is stupid ? You're basically overpower on the ground and worthless in the air.

If you're facing LM, you got frustrated when fighting him cause he is clearly stronger than your character, then when you manage to gimp him you get no satisfaction cause you know you're just exploiting its glairing weakness like you should.
If you're playing LM you're losing 50% of your move set and just playing with your superior ground game until you get throw out and can't do anything.

LM feels like a Tekken character put in smash with no modification. To me he just feels totally wrong as a Smash character and the fact you have to face him all the time online is anoying as hell. Also, For Glory mode only being on FD doesn't help.

Little Mac feels just like a lulzy character. His useful moveset is so miniscule it's laughable. He relies so heavily on dash attack, tilts, and Fsmash that it doesn't take much more than thirty minutes to learn how he works. I've yet to see anyone play Little Mac in any way other than a dash attack spammer until they land the final ftilt/smash to finish the stock.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Little Mac is far from overpowered outside of Final Destination or any Omega Form stages. He's terrible in the air, so stages that involve a lot of jumping really limit his ability to offer pressure.

In fact, Little Mac is probably one of the worst characters for fighting Master Hand (along with Crazy Hand and Master Core), simply because his aerials are so bad.

 

[OFY]

As everyone else mentioned, Little Mac is really bad in the air. Most if not all of his aerials are useless, especially when trying to get back onto the stage. His side b has the same trajectory each time and it's not really instant like the spacies side-b so it's easier to punish in a sense. The only thing Mac has is a fast run speed which lets him kind of approach the opponent. Dash attack which is easily punishable (it's slow). His tilts are OK, ftilt is punishable on shield/whiff though same with standard A. Overall if you dodge his KO move and realize his upsmash has armor on it, you should be good against him.

 

[Kokusho]

In fact, Little Mac is probably one of the worst characters for fighting Master Hand (along with Crazy Hand and Master Core), simply because his aerials are so bad.

Are you joking ? Thoses bosses can be hit from the ground so you can destroy them very easily with rapid powerfull strike and fast dodges.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Are you joking ? Thoses bosses can be hit from the ground so you can destroy them very easily with rapid powerfull strike and fast dodges.

Maybe I'm just very bad with using Little Mac then, because it took me longer to beat Master Hand at intensity level 2 with him than with the other characters that I've used so far.

 

[Kokusho]

maybe beating master hand is difficult because you're kinda right and sometime it's hard to hit him from the ground, but once you go against the master core it's actually very easy.

 

[GreenFlame]

Well Little Mac certainly doesn't win all the time. I was watching some Little Mac replays and even some of what looked like pretty skilled players are losing (the majority of them lost, 1 or 2 of them I watched won). He isn't OP, because despite his speed you can predict and shield then punish and he usually can't grab you while you're shielding because his grab is extremely short.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Little Mac feels just like a lulzy character. His useful moveset is so miniscule it's laughable. He relies so heavily on dash attack, tilts, and Fsmash that it doesn't take much more than thirty minutes to learn how he works. I've yet to see anyone play Little Mac in any way other than a dash attack spammer until they land the final ftilt/smash to finish the stock.

Being a dash attack spammer used to be my method of play. Terrible strategy. You get shield grabbed all day and throw off the stage. Game over. Now I only use dash attack as a punish move and getting waaay better results. He's not OP but very hard to deal with if people use his other tools more often and dash attack less. I'm getting to that level. Projectile characters do pretty well against him. If he's put in the air he has terrible options. Slip counter is risky because they can punish if it fails. Or if they hit there's a chance you fly off the stage during your counter hit. Air dodge is the only reliable option in my eyes

 

[Qbopper]

I've yet to see anyone play Little Mac in any way other than a dash attack spammer until they land the final ftilt/smash to finish the stock.

Doesn't mean that people who know how to play him don't exist...

 

[Hellrazor]

Doesn't mean that people who know how to play him don't exist...

Never said they don't. Just haven't seen any. Little Mac is just the go-to for bads atm.

 

[TheMiggidyMacDuffy]

the irony is that people adopting this "ledge = insta-win" mentality just makes them easier for me to read.

but yeah, mac's got enormous, easily-exploitable weaknesses. if you're any good at gimping, he's easy to deal with for the most part.

 

[PolarPanda]

I've still been having a ton of difficulties with dealing with Mac's even with ledge tactics, but probably cause I haven't had much practice with them. But he does seem to have exploitable weaknesses, especially that aerial game and punishing.

 

[TheMiggidyMacDuffy]

I've still been having a ton of difficulties with dealing with Mac's even with ledge tactics, but probably cause I haven't had much practice with them. But he does seem to have exploitable weaknesses, especially that aerial game and punishing.

get him in the air as much as you can.

note that this doesn't mean "attack him FROM the air." little mac has no problem dealing with aerial attacks. but when he's in the air himself, the only defenses he really has is air dodging and slip counter, and even then, the counterattack only goes in one direction

second to gimping, mac's worst enemy is air juggling

 

[shinhed-echi]

I feel bad for the wasted moveset slots. But other than that, I don't have much of a problem with his aerials. His recovery options on the other hand...

If he were another all-around type character, he wouldn't be as interesting (I would still totally main him, though).
I think having an emphasis of dominance on the ground was a good idea... but maybe they took it a little TOO far.

 

[Clemente]

To the people who keep saying Little Mac isn't OP outside of FD... that's great, but For Glory is entirely FD and most of us are going to be playing there for our Smash Bros. competitive careers, not at offline competitions. Well, at least that's the case for me.

I really don't like Little Mac's K.O. meter. I don't think any one character should have that extra layer of play.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

if you're losing to for glory little macs u don't know how to gimp little mac

 

[Fafnir]

For what it's worth, in an actual tournament, any opponent worth their salt is going to autoban FD at the slightest possibility of going up against a Little Mac. For Glory is just a ridiculously broken mode, and Little Mac just happens to be one of the characters that really benefits from it. Unless Nintendo patches support for stages other than FD in Glory, that's just going to be the way it is (Battlefield would have been the best option, really).

That said, for dealing with Mac, it's pretty straight forward, albeit incredibly boring. Just hang around the edges, grab, toss him off, and gimp him. If you can get an early stock lead, all you need to do is wait out the clock near the edge of the stage. He has to approach you, and you're at a huge advantage there.
Even beyond that, against better Mac players, get used to trying to force an early stock lead and then waiting out the clock. No one really has the tools to approach him on FD, so he can easily control all of the momentum if you let him.
If you try to fight Mac on FD in pretty much any other fashion, you're probably going to have a bad time. So just wait him out. No one said fighting Mac has to be fun, just that it's doable.

 

[Nat Goméz]

On the edge they aren't in huge advantage either, really, in hands of a good Little Mac player of course that know his tools, because we would just keep pressuring the shield with ftilts that are safe on block and out-ranges the grabs, i think that's enough for get them out of there but if they keep hanging there and with their shield half destroyed a good down tilted fsmash would end the work, and now with a fully charged smash from Mac incoming. Or just keep pressuring until they get their shield off and receive that one-two punch.

And you can't get your shield off and attack him because his ftilt is faster than that. When people do this to me in online they either get pressured until they receive a ftilt for free, dodge and receive a ftilt from the other side or get their shield destroyed.

Hearing Venks is one of the best things that had happened to me, really the guy owns it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, i forgot the main reason of this thread .-. he's not OP, all the opposite, for his weakness people have though that he won't be able to stand in competitive but that isn't true either. When people get their way with you and throw offstage and gimp well... that's a stock.

What i try to say is that good Little Mac players won't let you do that that easy, Mac have the tools to defense himself to this, but if you do and do it right you'll win the battle.

 

[PeterJude]

I feel bad for the wasted moveset slots. But other than that, I don't have much of a problem with his aerials. His recovery options on the other hand...

If he were another all-around type character, he wouldn't be as interesting (I would still totally main him, though).
I think having an emphasis of dominance on the ground was a good idea... but maybe they took it a little TOO far.

To be completely honest I think they absolutely nailed the brief for Little Mac.

 

[Captain Norris]

Little Mac isn't even op on Final Destination imo. Sure, he gets armor, but many things over prioritize some of his moves.

 

[Fafnir]

On the edge they aren't in huge advantage either, really, in hands of a good Little Mac player of course that know his tools, because we would just keep pressuring the shield with ftilts that are safe on block and out-ranges the grabs, i think that's enough for get them out of there but if they keep hanging there and with their shield half destroyed a good down tilted fsmash would end the work, and now with a fully charged smash from Mac incoming. Or just keep pressuring until they get their shield off and receive that one-two punch.

The point is that people are forced to face Little Mac primarily on a stage where they'd never actually be made to face in in actual competitive play.

 

[jviscake]

As a Little Mac, I don't even agree that Little Mac is all that good. It's so easy to get edge-guarded or even get destroyed in a juggling battle. He has such little follow-up options that if you want to play against characters who react very well, you end up flying way too far to recover at all. Overall it's a disappointing game once your opponent figures you out if all you're doing is the "dash-spam" you guys are saying everyone does.

 

[LF2K]

Little Mac is #2 for me, behind Ness. Is Mac OP to me? Not at all. Mac's all about playing smart and thinking it through. Not just blindly wailing on everything in your path.

Besides, we all know his crippling weakness. Get him in the air. He can't do squat up there. Which is why when I play as him, I try not to jump at all.

 

[GreenFlame]

Little Mac is #2 for me, behind Ness. Is Mac OP to me? Not at all. Mac's all about playing smart and thinking it through. Not just blindly wailing on everything in your path.

Besides, we all know his crippling weakness. Get him in the air. He can't do squat up there. Which is why when I play as him, I try not to jump at all.

You're right, he does get juggled easily. But he's kind of balanced in that because he's so fast it can be hard to get him up there. But it is his main weakness, second to being gimped.

A good thing to do as Mac in the air though is time an air dodge right to avoid getting combo'd, and fastfall back down as soon as possible. And, as bad as they may be, you may have to use some of his aerials like his down aerial if it's safe and you can't or don't need to air dodge.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I tried jumping and throwing out aerials for a whole match once and could not land anything but a couple Bairs. So yeah idk if his air game can be salvaged at all. I need to start playing on other stages besides FD. But now it seems like Little Mac will have a tough time in tournament if he can only excel at FD. Player will strike FD and if they win game 1, they'll ban FD giving Mac a really hard time.

 

[jviscake]

I tried jumping and throwing out aerials for a whole match once and could not land anything but a couple Bairs. So yeah idk if his air game can be salvaged at all. I need to start playing on other stages besides FD. But now it seems like Little Mac will have a tough time in tournament if he can only excel at FD. Player will strike FD and if they win game 1, they'll ban FD giving Mac a really hard time.

His uair is decent to catch a quick hit, his bair is obviously really good. The fair is punishable but quick option if you SH but his dair & nair are completely unusable.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

His uair is decent to catch a quick hit, his bair is obviously really good. The fair is punishable but quick option if you SH but his dair & nair are completely unusable.

I don't think I would go as far to say Bair is "really good". It has the range of your standard aerial attack but a little weaker. Knockback is decent. I would put it on the same level as your average Fair.

 

[GreenFlame]

I don't think I would go as far to say Bair is "really good". It has the range of your standard aerial attack but a little weaker. Knockback is decent. I would put it on the same level as your average Fair.

You can't really go as far to say any of Little Mac's aerials are "really good". They are below average for aerials, just as they're meant to be. They still have their uses though like any aerials, but only in certain situations.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I was only able to land a good fair if I short hop and fast fall. I believe a short hop fast falled fair actually combos into other moves like dtilt and ftilt. It's worth looking into a bit more. I really never jump in neutral but sometimes I do just to see what I can do with it.

 

[El Cid]

Probably everyone has said what I'm about to say, but Lil Mac is certainly not OP. I've faced him a lot before, and if the other player knows what they're doing I'll probably lose, but chances are they will screw up. It is remarkably easy to die as Lil Mac, and that's because his recovery suuuuucks. Also he falls super fast. So if you knock him off the stage, there is a very good chance he won't get back on. I think I got him at probably less than 90% with Lucina's Down Smash and he just died because he was off the stage and couldn't get back on. The funny thing is, Lucina's Down Smash isn't even used for KOing people that way most of the time.

The other way to counter him is just to of course play by the edge and yes, grab him. It doesn't matter which way you throw him as long as you're sure it's into the air, because he has no aerial game whatsoever. Once he's up in the air your opponent had better fast fall as soon as he can to get back on the ground because there's not an awful lot he can do to stop you from racking up damage, or just grabbing him again and continue doing it. So yeah, Lil Mac is not OP. I think the Uppercut OHKO thing is just there to compensate for his terrible air game and lack of recovery. I have never seen a recovery move as terrible as his. It's even worse than Fox and Falco, and that's saying a lot.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

I pretty much agree with what everybody else here has said.

He's amazing on the ground when used intelligently, but once you knock him in the air he's more or less at your mercy, and as fast and as strong as he is on the ground, it's not actually that easy to lay into somebody else unless they don't know what they are doing, too.

 

[Oilpath99]

As a Little Mac main, I do not think Little Mac is OP. I think he is one of the better characters in the game however and can be absolutely destructive in the right hands. The people online who spam him do not know how to use him probably. Prompting click-bait sites like Kotaku to make stupid articles about him.

One thing that Little Mac has over other characters is how fun and rewarding it is to use him, especially every time I land a F-Smash or KO punch.

Also this is one of my first posts on these boards. Hai.

 

[PK Gaming]

Trashy Mac players are whatever, but a good Mac is an absolute nightmare.

It's frustrating but also exhilarating at the same time. Both players have to outplay each other if they want to win.

One could say that it's like playing Punch Out again.

 

[PolarPanda]

As a Little Mac main, I do not think Little Mac is OP. I think he is one of the better characters in the game however and can be absolutely destructive in the right hands. The people online who spam him do not know how to use him probably. Prompting click-bait sites like Kotaku to make stupid articles about him.

One thing that Little Mac has over other characters is how fun and rewarding it is to use him, especially every time I land a F-Smash or KO punch.

Also this is one of my first posts on these boards. Hai.

Hey there. Yeah, it does seem pretty satisfying to play him, but he's definitely not OP. He has some great matchups, and some poor matchups. It's always nice to land a KO punch, and it's fun to surprise people by actually using him properly.

 

[El Cid]

Trashy Mac players are whatever, but a good Mac is an absolute nightmare.

It's frustrating but also exhilarating at the same time. Both players have to outplay each other if they want to win.

One could say that it's like playing Punch Out again.

Just like playing Robin is almost like playing Fire Emblem again!

Actually, it sort of is.