Little Mac 1.11 Patch Changelog

[NeoRed]

Post here any changes you've noticed. I haven't noticed any right now.

 

[Champ Gold]

Bros, do Mac's jab combo at around 105%.


I think it got a crazy nerf to where the opponent can escape easier than before

 

[jet56]

besides the slight buff on his neutral b(seriously, that move is the one thing we don't care about) which has slight more percent and knockback damage, nothing so far, i am testing though.

edijt:my bad, that was for his neutral special 3, so far, a ton of the cast hasn't been touched.
positive note is that there was a universal change to shield stun mechanics, which means more moves are safe on shield now i think.

 

[MonumentalMac]

I've noticed the shield stun is much better and I'm really happy about that.
I've tried to work on my offensive game and it seems better though still mac is much more of a defensive character.

Another thing I noticed is his jab is easier to DI or worse n-air inbetween (can someone confirm this)

Last thing that I feel might be a placebo or possibly even something that happened in 1.10 is that if my opponent forgets to tech or tech roll I can't get a d-tilt or d-smash afterward.

Why do they still get invincibility frames if they don't tech?
if this change is true it is probably a universal change relating to teching.

 

[jet56]

you might just be missing the timing of the tech, i personally haven't noticed this, besides, you want to go for a dair to reset them if they miss a tech.

eh, rapid jabs and multihits were universally buffed, in the fact that you CANT DI out of it easy, perhaps if they are too far out, or high up they can break free, but not in the middle of it. a good example is also the fact that lucarios aura sphere can now break shields a lot easier, and you are locked in shield stun.

yes, little mac can play defensive, but he's a punish character by nature. which means he can aggressively and safely pressure an opponent into making a mistake, or wait for them to make an approach, then punish them for it. that's the best way to play him at this point, but this means you would have to know how to play an offensive AND defensive little mac, and how to balance between the two styles.

 

[MonumentalMac]

It might be a placebo but I believe a universal change modified teching which ruins Little macs d-tilt setups.

D-tilt D-tilt D-tilt Side B D-tilt KO punch or Smash attack worked amazing on Falcon and Roy players who didn't tech roll after the Side B.

This is what happened in 1.10 and below when falcon teched in place or didn't tech at all.
http://fat.gfycat.com/SoftVeneratedBillygoat.webmhttp://fat.gfycat.com/SoftVeneratedBillygoat.webm
I did this wombo combo mainly on all the Falcons and Roys (because it's easier on them)


Now I have noticed that everyone who doesn't tech are given invincibility frames after I land Side B into d-tilt or f-air into d-tilt which means falcon gets a free get up attack. If they tech in place I hold out my jab or just do another d-tilt and that usually works.

You mentioned following up with a d-air for jab locks. Which I can't do after Side B.

Side B has too much end lag to follow up with a d-air. The only follow ups I get after d-tilt side B if not getting n-aired first is u-tilt, jab and my favorite another d-tilt. I don't usually do d-tilt Side B on low damage because it is punishable but I memorized the certain percents which mac can follow up again which is usually 20%.

Around mid 20%s this seems to work with mid to heavies.

D-tilt Side B U-tilt
D-tilt Side B Jab
D-tilt Side B D-tilt to X
D-tilt Side B smash and hope the super armor covers if they n-air.

 

[Opossum]

It might be a placebo but I believe a universal change modified teching which ruins Little macs d-tilt f-air fast fall into d-tilt or d-tilt side b into d-tilt setups.

D-tilt D-tilt D-tilt Side B D-tilt KO punch or Smash attack worked amazing on Falcon and Roy players who didn't tech roll after the Side B.

This is what happened in 1.10 and below when falcon teched in place or didn't tech at all.
http://fat.gfycat.com/SoftVeneratedBillygoat.webmhttp://fat.gfycat.com/SoftVeneratedBillygoat.webm
I did this wombo combo mainly on all the Falcons and Roys (because it's easier on them)

They can avoid the final part of the combo via techrolling.
if not he would get the finishing d-tilt to X.

Now I have noticed that everyone who doesn't tech are given invincibility frames after I land Side B into d-tilt or d-tilt f-air fast fall d-tilt which means falcon gets a free get up attack. If they tech in place I hold out my or just do another d-tilt and that usually works.

In the future, please do not double post. Instead, use the Edit feature. I've merged your two posts together.

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like Mac got weaker in the path by a small front (placebo, yeah) but the newer Shield stun makes him dangerous considering everything he does is safe on shield and can cause a shift into game plan for opponents.


Also has anyone tried to do nair setups like.

Nair ->Up B for a mixup in the air game department

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

Does it feel like his Forward has more knock-back? I have been doing the Down-Tilt,Forward Air strings but it feels like the Forward Air knocks them farther then it did before.

 

[jet56]

http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-enigmatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/

so far, this is all the changes to the patch. i doubt we will be finding any more in regards to mac. Someone even ripped the code from the patch, and there was only 2 changes, both in regards to macs custom neutral b. the rest of macs coding was left alone. its ok guys, everyone fall for placebo.

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

A

http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-enigmatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/

so far, this is all the changes to the patch. i doubt we will be finding any more in regards to mac. Someone even ripped the code from the patch, and there was only 2 changes, both in regards to macs custom neutral b. the rest of macs coding was left alone. its ok guys, everyone fall for placebo.

Alright. I guess people were just DI-ing it better.

 

[inconspikuous]

I feel like Mac got weaker in the path by a small front (placebo, yeah) but the newer Shield stun makes him dangerous considering everything he does is safe on shield and can cause a shift into game plan for opponents.


Also has anyone tried to do nair setups like.

Nair ->Up B for a mixup in the air game department

just want to clarify, nothing mac does is safe on shield except for maybe a well spaced dtilt. just because the shieldstun is a little higher now doesn't mean you can smash shields for free. you will still get back-thrown and gimped.

 

[jet56]

yes this is true, however more than just dtilt is safe on shield, it is character dependent though. for example, spaced dtilts, jabs, utilts, and ftilts are safe on shield, the only time they are unsafe is if they buffer an option out of shield that is fast enough to punish and/or you misspaced it. and while smashes are unsafe on shield by themself, the can be safe and apply great shield pressure if you use it after a safe tilt, for example a safe dtilt to down angled foward smash. also remember that you can also buffer options after a tilt or smash, to get out of the way of a dash grab or jab. it is true though, that certain characters can still punish you out of shield if they have a fast or long reaching grab (megaman and greninja grab, or ZSS jab).

edit: forgot to mention rapid jab is better on shield, not safe, but if they have already taken shield damage, you can rapid jab their shield and get a shield poke before they can safely buffer an option.

also, i can't find a video on it, but if they are standing on edge, or use standard get up and shield, you can get a gaurenteed break on shield. by throwing out down angled foward smash, you will get carried off the stage to the other side of the character, you can then immediately aerial side b to break their shield. they cannot do anything, because they are still locked in shield stun from your DFsmash. buffer your aerial side b though, so you don't do it too slow. and you don't even have to charge the smash attack, it still breaks, and will often kill at zero if they miss the stage.

 

[inconspikuous]

yes this is true, however more than just dtilt is safe on shield, it is character dependent though. for example, spaced dtilts, jabs, utilts, and ftilts are safe on shield, the only time they are unsafe is if they buffer an option out of shield that is fast enough to punish and/or you misspaced it. and while smashes are unsafe on shield by themself, the can be safe and apply great shield pressure if you use it after a safe tilt, for example a safe dtilt to down angled foward smash. also remember that you can also buffer options after a tilt or smash, to get out of the way of a dash grab or jab. it is true though, that certain characters can still punish you out of shield if they have a fast or long reaching grab (megaman and greninja grab, or ZSS jab).

edit: forgot to mention rapid jab is better on shield, not safe, but if they have already taken shield damage, you can rapid jab their shield and get a shield poke before they can safely buffer an option.

also, i can't find a video on it, but if they are standing on edge, or use standard get up and shield, you can get a gaurenteed break on shield. by throwing out down angled foward smash, you will get carried off the stage to the other side of the character, you can then immediately aerial side b to break their shield. they cannot do anything, because they are still locked in shield stun from your DFsmash. buffer your aerial side b though, so you don't do it too slow. and you don't even have to charge the smash attack, it still breaks, and will often kill at zero if they miss the stage.

maybe we disagree on the definition of 'safe', but i don't really want to argue the point. i just wanted to clarify that the increased shieldstun from the patch does not mean mac can smash on shield for free now. that kind of thinking will get you killed.

 

[Champ Gold]

maybe we disagree on the definition of 'safe', but i don't really want to argue the point. i just wanted to clarify that the increased shieldstun from the patch does not mean mac can smash on shield for free now. that kind of thinking will get you killed.

Well I really didn't mean freely but is much 'safer' on Shield than it was before. I ain't suggesting throwing it out like a mad man but much easier for shield pressure. It'll force opponents not to rely on shields too offen and have decent mixup options.

I'm looking more at pressure and control than easier to throw out. It'll force them to go in aggressive which would be much easier for Mac to handle since his defensive options are pretty fair despite being a ground oriented fighter

 

[jet56]

maybe we disagree on the definition of 'safe', but i don't really want to argue the point. i just wanted to clarify that the increased shieldstun from the patch does not mean mac can smash on shield for free now. that kind of thinking will get you killed.

tbh, there are some moves that are safe for all characters, and some moves that are safe for some. i do agree that really only dtilt is TRULY safe if spaced, and that the rest is dependent on the OoS option the opponent uses, and the character they are using. but i like to know which moves i can throw out on some characters, and which ones i can't. and yes, smashes are not safe on shield, if the opponent is fast enough to react. and smashes shouldn't be safe.

i guess the real definition of "safe on shield" is:
you can hit your opponents shield, then buffer an option before your opponent can respond, either through OoS or shield drop.

in that regard, only a spaced dtilt is safe.

 

[inconspikuous]

i think there may be some things to explore post-patch... so you know how fg zss's usually run in for a dash grab after shooting their stun gun? now, because there's no shieldstun* on projectiles, i was able to drop shield immediately after the stun hit my shield and sideB punish it. i don't remember being able to do that pre-patch. may be the same with other projectiles.

also, i feel like we should have a thread dedicated to oos options. jc upB is obviously the main one (need to learn how to reverse on the first hitbox to catch crossups), but i really feel like i can jump cancel sideB oos -- but i don't have a reliable way to test it. theoretically i don't see the difference between upB and sideB if you jump out of shield.

EDIT: *very little shieldstun on most projectiles, apparently 0 shieldstun on zss neutralB. working formula right now is floor(damage/3.5)+2.

 

[jet56]

jc ko punch if you have it, or jc down b if you are reading an attack on shield. you can also do a short hop fadeway bair or fair if you want a safer OoS option.

also with the formula you mentioned above, at minimal, all projectiles have at least greater than 2 frames of shield stun. example:
(1/3.5)+2=2.3frames. while projectiles do less, they are still scary, a samus b charge shot would be a formidable way to break a shield if you followed it up with an aerial or smash attack. this is also how link gets shield breaks using his bomb and following it up. weak projectiles aren't scary to shield though.