Little help from a teacher

[Thanatos180]

Ok, so I always like meeting new people and giving back story and wotnot, so i'm going to tell my smash story right quick and if you're not interested you can skip down a bit to the stars while I do so. So, I used to play smash a lot, since N64 to Melee and then I left it alone for a lone time and then I came back and am playing Brawl of course. My friend not only got me back into it when Melee was around, but introduced me to tournament play as well (a lot different from normal play, if you remember your first jump). Anywho, all my friends play Smash and the one who got me into it said he would help me out (he's good) but in all reality.... I haven't been helped all that much... at all. Mostly he wipes the floor with my face, I say good game and get up to do it again. Anywho, in Brawl i've been looking for MY character, my main, and i've tried everyone a lot and I think, wholeheartedly, that i'm in love with everything about the way Zelda plays. Moving on to why i'm posting.

**** So for one I was wondering, and I know this is a broad and nubbish question, but if someone could teach me how to get better with Zelda. I'm going to get some videos up as soon as I can so people can see what I can do, and I was wondering if anyone was willing to just sort of... tutor me. Take me under their Zelda wing if you will.

Past that, my next question is about Zelda v. Wolf, my friend's main. It's good, no doubt, but his lasers kill me half the time. I can't get past them without getting hit at least once, and if i'm close enough when hit he pummels me with a... whatever-he-pleases move. The other half of the time he kills me is when he gets me in the air, off stage esspecially. I can't seem to get him out from under me, and I was just wondering how to even get back to the stage without incurring the wrath of his Uair.

Thank you all. I hope to be posting a lot more soon.

 

[sFoster]

If you want to approach wolf, jump in the air toward him and shoot a din's at him.
You'll glide forward toward him in the air (above his laser zone) and can explode the dins when you need protection.

Wolf is a tough character matchup for zelda though, so you have your work cut out for you.
If you're getting juggled too much, work on your air dodging more.

Also try teleporting to get past him.
If he is going to jump up to get you, try to teleport straight down beneath him and then juggle him instead. Also you could fast fall and then teleport either directly left or right..

Doing it stictly horizontal will teleport you pretty far, and if you're fast falling your momentum will carry over to where you reappear and hopefully get you down to the stage in time.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Lol Wolf. What a n00b.

Advice: Try to grab him as much as possible and abuse those tilts. If he's a decent player, spamming Din's fire won't work. Try to draw him into an Usmash. Once you have him in the air, he's done for. Give him a Uair for great justice.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Wolf is a tough character matchup for zelda though, so you have your work cut out for you.

Is he? I heard from a swedish Wolf player that I play (he's great with him, btw) that Zelda counters Wolf. He told me that after I beat him for the first time though, so I dunno about that anymore.

I've noticed that the things that give me the most problems are his blaster and his reflector. The Blaster can disturb Din's momentum pretty easily and the Reflector... Well, it's just a pain in the ***. Interupts so many close-combat smashes.

But one thing you can think about when facing Wolf is that he'll probably semi-spam his f-smash. You should be able to learn how to counter it soon.

 

[S2]

If you haven't read it yet,

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158672

A pretty comprehensive guide on Zelda, including some tactical stuff.


As for Wolf... its uncomfirmed whether Zelda is a wolf "counter", since that's coming from Wolf players. There doesn't seem to be a lot of Wolf/Zelda debating going on, so I'd say we need to wait for more tournament results before confirming a statement like that.

One problem though, is that you really need to know how to play against Wolf (regardless of your character). Wolf players will claim he's limiting, but he's got some tricky timing that will throw you off unless you have Wolf experience. Personally, I tend to have problems against him, but its been a while since I played a good Wolf.

Let's analyze what he can/can't do. This isn't complete, but its a few tips.

1.) His recovery sucks, so Din's him when he's offstage.
2.) If he hits you with his Up-B, it can be DIed out of upwards

3.) Remember that his running attack stops his momentum for an upkick similar to Fox's upsmash, but his f-smash causes him to do a dash attack.

These two attack can be tricky, but just keep his F-smash's range in mind. I've heard that you can DI out of it (upwards probably, I don't know, double check this) making it less useful. But also, it has lag on the end. Zelda's fastest 2 moves are the neutral-A and the d-smash, so watch your spacing and punish him.

4.) Watch out for his aerials. Wolf can shorthop aerial with no lag if the player times it right. So be careful about air approaches. Especially if he's jumping around using f-air. He can attack with no lag when he hits the ground.

5.) His lasers will ruin your Din's if your too close to him (but not at close combat range). Keep in mind, that his laser has lag time on the end. You can jump over them and punish him. I've definitely jumped over lasers and got a free f-air in before against stupid wolf players.

What Din's does do is outrange his lasers. So what your spacing. Abuse din's when it is safe. And be careful about Nayru's. Wolf's lasers travel far, but not far enough where if you reflect them they will actually make it back to him. But Nayru's has a lot of lag, so at some distances you're Nayru's won't reflect the projectile far enough back at him but still leave you open.


Other than those things

I'm unsure about Zelda's f-smash priority compared to Wolf's attacks, so I can't comment. But keep your spacing.

You still should never be coming down on him (or any opponent). Airdodge and avoid air combat that doesn't involve you being underneath the opponent.

And of course, keep all the Zelda basics in mind.

 

[sFoster]

I have no personal doubts that wolf is a counterpick for zelda.

Zelda is best when played defensively, and wolf is the only character I've ever played against that can actually force me into the offensive.

His blaster comes faster than nayru's can relfect, and it doesn't go back far enough to hit him.
On top of it his shield never runs out, so you can spam din's until the cows come up and wolf will still be there with his invicibility button held down.

I'm not saying he's unbeatable, but I call him a counter pick in that he has a special place against zelda.

If wolf is played properly and camps right, you HAVE to approach.
When it comes down to it, Zelda's approach is kind of weak.

 

[S2]

Yeah, Wolf can be a pain about that.

What you can do, is never actually approach him. Block his lasers, if he does one without a shorthop you can jump over and punish. Otherwise, make it a game of patience. Most players will eventually become unpatient and come attack you. That's what the Wolf is doing in the 1st place to your Din's. He's going to reflect them long enough hoping you'll lose patience and come fight him. Vary what you're doing, but you don't have to be aggressive just because he wants you to.

One last little thing, if you come across a laser spamming Wolf... remember your spacing. You can Farore's punish him.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

So... Zelda is a Wolf counter (perhaps), and Wolf is a Zelda counter (perhaps)...

What is it?

But from what I've read here and, my personal opinion, Wolf counters Zelda more than Zelda counters Wolf.

 

[popsofctown]

Don't get too far off on Zelda v Wolf, the opening poster wants help on his general game too. I'm willing to look at it once it comes up. Try to show the matches you lost, but not the ones you lost by making many mistakes you yourself can identify.

I haven't played any good Wolves (lol). I've played a bad one. Lots of lightning effects coming out of Zelda's high heels that game. How is Sheik v. Wolf? If you are forced to approach, mighty well trade some defense for offense right?

 

[Thanatos180]

Wow, I don't say anything for a day and I miss all this. Thank everyone for the advice, I really appreciate it. I have come to find, though, why I couldn't beat his wolf; it all boils down to the grand dilemma of smash. If I tried to get at him, i'd get hit and he'd whomp on me. If I ran away, he'd get closer and continue what with all the blaster crap. Solution? Well, I found it was useful to run away to make him chase me to get closer, then do a reverse din to stop my movement and catch him off guard. Then I took some suggestions as an extra safety to approach imediatly after, such as jumping and using another din's while I glided closer. Of course he's really good, so I was getting closer to my ultimate death in the end - but I feel I made progress in getting less of cheap shotted.

As for the debate between who being a counter for who, couldn't one then make the argument that they're evenly matched? From what i've read from all your experiences, a Wolf can't really play defensive again a Zelda and win, and neither can a Zelda against a Wolf. Furthermore, if either is too agressive, the other will pick them apart... all boiling down to the better player.

Din's can't beat the blaster or reflector due to range due to lag between uses, but it can be avoided and if you get in close, Zelda has a host of moves to get Wolf off stage where the Din can reign supreme. Not to mention the tip about spacing and the farore's wind counterattack. Then again, I get beat by stupid Wolf moves all the time; like my next problem that is Wolf's bair wall of pain. So, a contest of who knows their character better and skill yes?

 

[Kaffei]

If you're having problems with Wolf's lasers, I'll give you this:

Forget using Nayru's as a reflector.

Analysis:

Using Nayru's to reflect Wolf's laser too often[or at all] will allow the opponent to release a weakness.

Sometimes, a Wolf player will purposely shoot a laser at Zelda, in hopes that Zelda will use Nayru's.
Wolf's laser has a VERY short range, so reflecting it is pitiful unless you're pretty close to Wolf. But then again, it also have slow travel time, giving Wolf another chance to shield.
Anyway, after you use Nayru's, the reflected laser will probably not reach a good Wolf player. This leaves Zelda WIDE open for attack, because Nayru's has after-delay.

You mainly want to focus on Air Dodging Wolf's attacks & Juggling with Din's.

Many of Wolf's attacks usually focus on attack directly foward, especially his recovery move. You can try to Air Dodge right at Wolf, land behin him & Strike with Nayru's. Make sure to use this only if you're 100% sure the attack will make contact. If Wolf shields or dodges, you're screwed. However, if you're able to land the attack, chances are, you'll KB Wolf at a decent distance. That's your chance for a sweet spot with F/B Air, or F-Smash (Beware of DI, that applies as well).

If you're a Din's spammer, jump back & forth with it; play mind games.

 

[Naybewon]

Lol Wolf. What a n00b.

Advice: Try to grab him as much as possible and abuse those tilts. If he's a decent player, spamming Din's fire won't work. Try to draw him into an Usmash. Once you have him in the air, he's done for. Give him a Uair for great justice.

This was pretty much the advice I was going to give.

MOSTLY though, in my opinion, I have a much easier time killing competent Wolf players with Sheik. I just find Sheik to be a better match up (and if you're avid about being Zelda against Wolf in particular, then I'd STILL suggest using Sheik and then changing to Zelda in the end to smash the hell out of him.)

I just don't have a problem using Zelda/Sheik together in a match, so depending on how you feel about that my advice may or may not help you.

 

[Darkmusician]

Ok, so I always like meeting new people and giving back story and wotnot, so i'm going to tell my smash story right quick and if you're not interested you can skip down a bit to the stars while I do so. So, I used to play smash a lot, since N64 to Melee and then I left it alone for a lone time and then I came back and am playing Brawl of course. My friend not only got me back into it when Melee was around, but introduced me to tournament play as well (a lot different from normal play, if you remember your first jump). Anywho, all my friends play Smash and the one who got me into it said he would help me out (he's good) but in all reality.... I haven't been helped all that much... at all. Mostly he wipes the floor with my face, I say good game and get up to do it again. Anywho, in Brawl i've been looking for MY character, my main, and i've tried everyone a lot and I think, wholeheartedly, that i'm in love with everything about the way Zelda plays. Moving on to why i'm posting.

**** So for one I was wondering, and I know this is a broad and nubbish question, but if someone could teach me how to get better with Zelda. I'm going to get some videos up as soon as I can so people can see what I can do, and I was wondering if anyone was willing to just sort of... tutor me. Take me under their Zelda wing if you will.

Past that, my next question is about Zelda v. Wolf, my friend's main. It's good, no doubt, but his lasers kill me half the time. I can't get past them without getting hit at least once, and if i'm close enough when hit he pummels me with a... whatever-he-pleases move. The other half of the time he kills me is when he gets me in the air, off stage esspecially. I can't seem to get him out from under me, and I was just wondering how to even get back to the stage without incurring the wrath of his Uair.

Thank you all. I hope to be posting a lot more soon.

I'm not on Smashboards that much these days but I still play alot and if you'd like I'll help you. PM me or hit me up on my AIM. I'll answer any questions you have and once you get the videos up give me the links and I'll go over them with you. Also there are some vids on my youtube vs wolf.

-DarkM

 

[popsofctown]

the DarkMusician himself gives out his AIM screenname?

 

[Darkmusician]

the DarkMusician himself gives out his AIM screenname?

Sure. ^^ It's on my profile. TheDMusician. I'm usually on every night unless I'm smashing or doing something music related. Just tell me who you are on the boards if you SNs are different.

 

[Kaffei]

Omg, it's DarkM. You are my Zelda player idol :D

 

[Darkmusician]

Omg, it's DarkM. You are my Zelda player idol :D

Aww thanks. ^^

Staying on topic though. Wolf's blaster is pretty annoying. The little pulse travels pretty far, but when you reflect it it just poof disappears. I just jump over it or run up and power shield. I think if you're close enough you can get hit by Wolf's initial drawing of his blaster and then get hit by the shot.

 

[Tsuteto]

Aye, that you can. And approaching in from above is more of a pain due to his massive range and power. Ike you can at least get next to. Wolf just hurts all over. That's where I'm hoping my FW tech comes in handy now.

 

[sFoster]

nevermind, found my answer w/ a search

 

[Slayers8anFTW]

I've said this before in other posts, and I have no problem repeating it...Nayru's Love eats through Wolf, though not against the lasers of course. If you use it when you know he's about to f-smash, it eats right through it, and if you use it while he's at a low percent near the edge AND you are facing the edge, chances are it will throw him off and he won't know how to react...instakill. You just have to aggravate Wolf into attacking you, and if you get the chance, stick to longer stages like FD and Corneria against Wolf, I've found that they are amazing counterpicks against them due to the amount of maneuverability and spacing options thatthey give to Zelda...just be patient.

 

[Darkmusician]

I've said this before in other posts, and I have no problem repeating it...Nayru's Love eats through Wolf, though not against the lasers of course. If you use it when you know he's about to f-smash, it eats right through it, and if you use it while he's at a low percent near the edge AND you are facing the edge, chances are it will throw him off and he won't know how to react...instakill. You just have to aggravate Wolf into attacking you, and if you get the chance, stick to longer stages like FD and Corneria against Wolf, I've found that they are amazing counterpicks against them due to the amount of maneuverability and spacing options thatthey give to Zelda...just be patient.

I think Wolf still gives Zelda alot to worry about Naryu's Love mind games or not.