List of Kill percents for Finishing Touch

[PapaJ]

Hey Guys, I just made this list of percents that finishing touch will KO for each Character. On a side note this is on FD, No rage, not in the air, No Stale move, and the CPU DIing to the best of it's abilities. Also Finishing touch has a weaker hitbox behind Cloud. This list is for the stronger hitbox. Enjoy

Edit: After messing with HoodsxX It seems the percent is off. If you DI well you can live about 4 percent more. However since rage will most definitely take place I'm not going through the list again to update this since I can only do this myself and it takes far too long for a single character. Maybe later when I get a friend to come over Ill redo it but for now use this as a base.

 

[Skitrel]

Is it normal for Fox to be the hardest to kill off the top or is there something about Finishing Touch that's different to standing usmash?

Can't say I've ever compared kill percents for characters from usmash before, but I would have personally expected heavier characters to survive better than him? He's tied for 6th place as lightest character alongside Pika and Olimar...

 

[Bottles]

It might be that he is the fastest faller that causes him to be killed later

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It might be that he is the fastest faller that causes him to be killed later

Falling speed does play a factor, since even though Mewtwo is lighter than Rosalina and Samus, it gets KO'd later than both of them, because of its higher falling speed value.

Likewise, even though Bowser is the heaviest fighter, he gets KO'd sooner than Fox, because Fox falls much faster than Bowser, despite being very light.

However, Shield Monado Art Shulk is the most resilient to Finishing Touch, all thanks to the increased weight, knockback resistance, AND damage reduction that Shield offers.

 

[PapaJ]

Yeah, I remember being very confused as to why this was the case but I did a similar thing for Ryu's TSRK and SRK percents. DeDeDe ended up surviving the best even though technically bowser should have.

Edit: Technically Shulk survived longer then DeDeDe but Im talking about non status changing effects.

 

[Skitrel]

Neat, so vertical knockback appears to follow the Fastfall list. I'm going to go ahead and make a wild guess that horizontal knockback follows the weight list. That makes sense given traditional DI is what matters vertically while vectoring matters horizontally.

Easier to remember where the characters all are in those lists and the first and last percent too, then just fit characters to their placements on the ladder.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Nice list. I'm just gonna use 70 as a benchmark and remember 74 for Fox. xddd

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Neat, so vertical knockback appears to follow the Fastfall list. I'm going to go ahead and make a wild guess that horizontal knockback follows the weight list. That makes sense given traditional DI is what matters vertically while vectoring matters horizontally.

Easier to remember where the characters all are in those lists and the first and last percent too, then just fit characters to their placements on the ladder.

Fast fallers are often more resilient to getting Star KO'd, which has been shown back in the Melee days. Fox may be lightweight, but he's harder to KO vertically than Mario, all thanks to his fast falling speed.

 

[PapaJ]

Nice list. I'm just gonna use 70 as a benchmark and remember 74 for Fox. xddd

yeah just remember that rage might affect this. Also the back hitbox is weaker usually you need about 10 more percent to KO.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I have a really hard time setting up into Finishing Touch. It really feels like a hard read to me, but I also don't know how to combo into it.

 

[HoodsxX]

If you can you should check this with DI. It's quite easy to do. Just change the speed to 1/4 (L button) Hold the direction for DI and then do Down B for Cloud to check the "proper" %. Since this technicaly is mis-info since CPU's don't DI in training mode.

 

[PapaJ]

If you can you should check this with DI. It's quite easy to do. Just change the speed to 1/4 (L button) Hold the direction for DI and then do Down B for Cloud to check the "proper" %. Since this technicaly is mis-info since CPU's don't DI in training mode.

I can't tonight, but ill check it out tomorrow. ill update if there's any changes.

I have a really hard time setting up into Finishing Touch. It really feels like a hard read to me, but I also don't know how to combo into it.

Yeah, either use it OOS, as an edge guard, or a hard read. You *can* combo it from Sourspot Dair but that is based on which character it is as well as timing.

 

[RPK]

Do you guys know the KBG for Finishing Touches yet? Wondering because I've been able to kill off the top at some ridiculously low percents with rage.

 

[PapaJ]

Do you guys know the KBG for Finishing Touches yet? Wondering because I've been able to kill off the top at some ridiculously low percents with rage.

KuroganeHammer is the guy I go to and judging from his site. He hasn't gotten it yet.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Both the KBG and BKB are probably huge. Estimating 150~ BKB tbh

 

[RPK]

Both the KBG and BKB are probably huge. Estimating 150~ BKB tbh

Thats what I figured. Not in terms of numbers but jeez...I was able to KO sheik around the mid 40s with Rage, it was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's a really stupid move. It's also invincible until its unclankable hitboxes come out, because why not

 

[RPK]

It's a really stupid move. It's also invincible until its unclankable hitboxes come out, because why not

Is it really invincible? I feel like Ive gotten hit out of it, but I couldve been doing it wrong. Is it full body invincibility, or partial?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i had this diddy fsmash me, so I assume it's full

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Are you certain finishing touch has invincibility from start up until the hit box starts? It seems like there is a small window on all of the limit break moves where cloud can be hit just after inputting the move, but before the move activates, wherein cloud can be hit and will lose his limit break. I've had it happen to me on multiple occaisons with each of the moves, but I don't have a recording device to show people.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's weird, I can't seem to find any invincibility on him at all anymore. I do know that I've ignored quite a few attacks using the move though, so... ???

Maybe I was dreaming or some ****

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

It seems like if the attack is coming from in front of cloud, finishing touch will cancel the attack out (not sure if its a special priority thing or multi hitbox or w/e) but attacks from behind, and especially from low angles, can hit him out of it.

 

[PapaJ]

Yeah I have been hit out of finishing touch as well. Although the move might still have some sort of Invincibility

 

[HoodsxX]

Here's a link to help you guys out on frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...llpSkggN6MfpLfZIiBdGv6xOFk/edit#gid=127531413

 

[RPK]

Here's a link to help you guys out on frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...llpSkggN6MfpLfZIiBdGv6xOFk/edit#gid=127531413

Yeah, but that document doesn't show any invincibility frames, or super armor frames which I think cloud has

 

[PapaJ]

Yeah it's good for being safe(ish) and knowing when to use what attack but knowing the Iframes of his moves are whats going to help us quite a bit. You can already stuff alot of stuff with LB Cross Slash and it's somewhat safe on shield.

 

[HoodsxX]

Someone posted iframes on the 1.1.3 frame data I believe, check there.

Edit: Here it is.


Limit Break Blade Beam (Neutral B) 16 (Invincible: 10-17) 61 19 (6+2+2+2+2+2+3)
Limit Break Blade Beam in Air (Neutral B) 16 (Invincible: 10-17) 61 15 (4.5+1.75+1.75+1.5+1.5+1.5+2.5)
Limit Break Cross Slash (Side B) 10 (Invincible: 6-11) 61 26 (5+5+3+3+10)
Limit Break Climhazzard (Up B) 7 (Invincible: 5-12) 103 20 (6+7+4+3)

 

[Oblivion129]

Good stuff, though I noticed Shulk in speed form isn't in the document.

 

[TurboLink]

Finishing Touch is stupid. And people used to think True Shoryuken was dumb. I don't know how Sakurai thought a move like Finishing Touch was okay, party game or not.

 

[Chiroz]

Finishing Touch is stupid. And people used to think True Shoryuken was dumb. I don't know how Sakurai thought a move like Finishing Touch was okay, party game or not.

A frame 16 move that not only requires time to charge but also has a high opportunity cost since it wastes other opportunities Cloud could have? This move is not broken in any sense.



So has anyone figured out why does this move kill people randomly? As in King Dedede should ALWAYS be the hardest player to kill from the top since he's the 2nd fastest faller and the 3rd heaviest char, yet he dies relatively early to Finishing Touch. Sheik which is known for being relatively easy to kill due to being light is harder to kill than Dedede, Bowser, etc.

What's going on???

 

[Masonomace]

Would you like to input kill percents for crouching characters? 'Cus a Shield Shulk crouching & applying DI can survive Finishing Touch at 181% but then dies at 182% in Training Mode.

However, Shield Monado Art Shulk is the most resilient to Finishing Touch, all thanks to the increased weight, knockback resistance, AND damage reduction that Shield offers.

It's a popular / common misconception but Shield art does not affect weight. Your knockback taken multiplier is just super good & like you said, the damage reduction also helps.

 

[TurboLink]

A frame 16 move that not only requires time to charge but also has a high opportunity cost since it wastes other opportunities Cloud could have? This move is not broken in any sense.



So has anyone figured out why does this move kill people randomly? As in King Dedede should ALWAYS be the hardest player to kill from the top since he's the 2nd fastest faller and the 3rd heaviest char, yet he dies relatively early to Finishing Touch. Sheik which is known for being relatively easy to kill due to being light is harder to kill than Dedede, Bowser, etc.

What's going on???

http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-2015121951918205

Sure it is bud.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

KuroganeHammer is the guy I go to and judging from his site. He hasn't gotten it yet.

I did it, it's on the site but it's like 60 BKB and 400+ KBG lol

 

[Minwu]

http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-2015121951918205

Sure it is bud.

>plays captain falcon

I found the problem.

 

[PapaJ]

Good stuff, though I noticed Shulk in speed form isn't in the document.

wait I thought I did all of shulks forms...unless I skipped under the idea that speed form wouldn't alter anything...ill add him when i can grab my wii u

Finishing Touch is stupid. And people used to think True Shoryuken was dumb. I don't know how Sakurai thought a move like Finishing Touch was okay, party game or not.

Yeah it's sure stupid that the move comes out in sixteen frames, vs TSRKS six frames, plus TSRK has invul from frame 1, can be comboed from weak Utilt/ wea dtil vs FT's somewhat strict guide. Oh and not to mention that when Cloud uses it he has near Lil Mac Recovery....It's a resource based move meaning if you use it at a bad time you lost your meter and your a sitting duck for 80 frames...Yeah it can KO early but good luck landing it on good players. You might get away with it as a tricky edge guard but thats about it. Also this guide was to get a good idea as to when to use FT. If you're gonna complain go on FG and whine there not here.

Also like Minwu said he got comboed to death because it's Falcon...AKA combo food. If you wanna make an argument please prove that it can lead into a combo against a DIing opponent with rage an everything else.

I did it, it's on the site but it's like 60 BKB and 400+ KBG lol

Lol, That would explain it. didn't think it'd be that high lol. Thanks

 

[Masonomace]

Just 'cus I felt like it, I tested some numbers in Training Mode for Cloud's Finishing Touch. No DI or crouching applied.

Shulk (Decisive Jump) | 72%
Shulk (Decisive Speed) | 62%
Shulk (Decisive Shield) | 154%
Shulk (Decisive Buster) | 62%
Shulk (Decisive Smash) | 48%

Shulk (Hyper Jump) | 76%
Shulk (Hyper Speed) | 62%
Shulk (Hyper Shield) | 193%
Shulk (Hyper Buster) | 62%
Shulk (Hyper Smash) | 14%

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

Are you certain finishing touch has invincibility from start up until the hit box starts? It seems like there is a small window on all of the limit break moves where cloud can be hit just after inputting the move, but before the move activates, wherein cloud can be hit and will lose his limit break. I've had it happen to me on multiple occaisons with each of the moves, but I don't have a recording device to show people.

l know Upb and Side b have invincibility on start-up. Iffy about Blade Beam. lf FT has I-frames on startup, it's irrelevant due to how long it takes to come out. lt has no priority, from what l know. A lot of simple move can clank with it if you use it at the wrong time. But it seems like the animation continues on, as if the other move was beaten out.

Ech.

EDIT: "from start up until the hit box starts." Oh. lf that's the case, then the l-frames are a lot more relevant. Not sure if that's the case or not.

EDIT AGAIN: Nope, the l-frames aren't like that. lf that were so, you wouldn't get hit out of it, l believe.