List of attacks/grabs from fastest initial frame to slowest (Frame Speed)

[ItsRainingGravy]

Thought this would be useful for competitive players to quickly glance over and compare frames

Data gathered from here:
http://pastebin.com/NJ4Q5PzU
http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8
http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...-every-character-now-with-ko-percents.383550/

Spoiler: Jabs

Fastest Jab:

1. Kirby, Little Mac, ZSS (frame 1)
--
2. Dr. Mario, Falco, Fox, Luigi, Mario, Mega Man, Mii Fighter, Peach, Pikachu, Sheik (frame 2)
3. Captain Falcon, Diddy, Greninja, Ness, ROB, Samus, Sonic, Villager, Yoshi (frame 3)
4. Bowser Jr, Charizard, Duck Hunt, G&W, Ike, Olimar, Pac-Man, Robin, Wii Fit Trainer (frame 4)
--
5. DK, Lucina/Marth, Shulk, Mii Gunner, Pit/Dark Pit, Jigglypuff (frame 5)
6. Lucario, Toon Link (frame 6)
--
7. Bowser, Link, Meta Knight, Mii Swordsman, Palutena (frame 7)
8. Ganondorf, Rosalina, Wario (frame 8)
--
9. King DeDeDe (frame 10)
10. Zelda (frame 11)

Spoiler: Dash Attacks

Fastest Dash Attack:

1. Fox, Luigi, Wario (frame 4)
2. Jigglypuff, Sheik, Sonic (frame 5)
--
3. Dr. Mario, G&W, Mario, Mii Fighter, Palutena, Peach, Pikachu, Rosalina, Zelda (frame 6)
4. Captain Falcon, Little Mac, Lucario, Meta Knight, Pit/Dark Pit, ROB, Wii Fit, ZSS (frame 7)
--
5. Bowser Jr, Falco, Mega Man, Ness, Olimar, Robin (frame 8)
6. Diddy, Greninja, Mii Swordsman, Toon Link (frame 9)
--
7. Charizard, DK, Duck Hunt, Ganondorf, Mii Gunner, Samus, Yoshi (frame 10)
8. Bowser, Pac-Man (frame 11)
9. Kirby (frame 12)
--
10. Lucina/Marth (frame 13)
11. Villager (frame 14)
12. Shulk (frame 15)
--
13. Ike (frame 18)
14. Link (frame 21)
--
15. King DeDeDe (frame 26)

Spoiler: Forward Tilts

Fastest Ftilt:

X. Mega Man (frame 2)
1. Little Mac (frame 4)
--
2. Dr. Mario, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Pac-Man, Sheik, Yoshi (frame 5)
3. Falco, Fox, Meta Knight, Mii Fighter, Pikachu, Sonic, Wii Fit, ZSS (frame 6)
4. Bowser Jr, Jigglypuff, Ness, Peach, ROB, Rosalina (frame 7)
--
5. Duck Hunt, Lucina/Marth, Samus, Villager (frame 8)
6. Captain Falcon, DK, Mii Swordsman, Robin, Toon Link (frame 9)
7. Bowser, Diddy, G&W, Ganondorf, Greninja, Mii Gunner, Pit/Dark Pit (frame 10)
--
8. Charizard (frame 11)
9. King DeDeDe, Lucario, Shulk, Wario, Zelda (frame 12)
--
10. Ike, Link, Olimar (frame 15)
--
11. Palutena (frame 17)

Spoiler: Up Tilts

Fastest Utilt:

1. Fox, ZSS (frame 3)
2. Kirby, ROB (frame 4)
--
3. Dr. Mario, DK, Falco, Little Mac, Luigi, Mario, Mii Fighter, Mii Gunner, Sheik, Wii Fit (frame 5)
4. Diddy, Lucario, Lucina/Marth, Mega Man, Olimar, Pit/Dark Pit, Robin (frame 6)
--
5. Bowser Jr, Ness, Pac-Man, Pikachu, Sonic, Villager, Zelda (frame 7)
6. Duck Hunt, Link, Meta Knight, Mii Swordsman, Toon Link, Yoshi (frame 8)
---
7. Charizard, Greninja, King DeDeDe, Peach, Rosalina (frame 9)
8. G&W, Palutena, Shulk (frame 10)
--
9. Ike (frame 11)
10. Bowser, Wario (frame 12)
--
11. Samus (frame 15)
12. Captain Falcon (frame 17)
__
X. Ganondorf (frame 81)

Spoiler: Down Tilts

Fastest Dtilt:

1. Little Mac, Ness, Meta Knight (frame 3)
2. Bowser Jr, Diddy, Kirby (frame 4)
---
3. Dr. Mario, Greninja, Luigi, Mario, Mega Man, Mii Swordsman, Rosalina, Sheik, Wario, Zelda (frame 5)
4. Duck Hunt, G&W, King DeDeDe, Olimar, Pit/Dark Pit, Samus, Sonic (frame 6)
5. DK, Falco, Fox, Ike, Lucina/Marth, Mii Fighter, Pac-Man, Pikachu, Robin (frame 7)
---
6. Mii Gunner, Yoshi, ZSS (frame 8)
7. Lucario, Toon Link, Villager (frame 9)
--
8. Bowser, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Shulk, Wii Fit (frame 10)
9. Captain Falcon, Charizard (frame 11)
--
10. Link, Peach (13 frames)
11. Palutena (14 frames)

Spoiler: Forward Smashes

Fastest Fsmash:

1. Lucina/Marth, Pit, Dark Pit, Samus (frame 10)
2. Olimar (frame 11)
--
3. Luigi, Diddy, Duck Hunt, Sheik (frame 12)
4. Fox, Kirby, ZSS, Greninja (frame 13)
--
5. Little Mac, Shulk, Yoshi (frame 14)
6. Dr. Mario, Link, Mario, Peach, Pikachu, Toon Link (frame 15)
--
7. Mii Swordsman, Jigglypuff, ROB, Robin, Rosalina, Wii Fit, Zelda (frame 16)
8. Falco, G&W, Mii Fighter, Mii Gunner (frame 17)
--
9. Bowser Jr, Pac-Man, Palutena, Sonic, Wario (frame 18)
10. Captain Falcon (frame 19)
--
11. Ganondorf, Ness, Mega Man (frame 21)
12. Bowser, Charizard, DK, Lucario (frame 22)
--
13. Meta Knight (frame 24)
--
14. Villager (frame 26)
--
15. Ike (frame 31)
--
16. King DeDeDe (frame 42)

Spoiler: Up Smashes

Fastest Usmash:

1. Diddy (frame 5)
2. Charizard, Pit/Dark Pit (frame 6)
--
3. Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt (frame 7)
4. Falco, Fox, Meta Knight, Mii Fighter, Mega Man, Rosalina (frame 8)
--
5. Dr. Mario, Luigi, Mario, Ness, Zelda (frame 9)
6. Link, Little Mac, Pikachu, ROB, ZSS (frame 10)
--
7. Mii Gunner, Mii Swordsman, Samus, Sheik, Toon Link, Wario, Yoshi (frame 11)
8. Greninja, Olimar, Robin, Villager (frame 12)
--
9. Lucina/Marth, Pac-Man (frame 13)
10. DK, Kirby, Peach, Wii Fit (frame 14)
--
11. Lucario (frame 15)
12. Bowser, Jigglypuff (frame 16)
--
13. King DeDeDe (frame 17)
14. Palutena, Shulk (frame 18)
15. Sonic (frame 19)
--
16. Ganondorf (frame 21)
17. Captain Falcon (frame 22)
--
18. G&W (frame 24)
19. Ike (frame 25)

Spoiler: Down Smashes

Fastest Dsmash:

1. Meta Knight (frame 4)
2. Dr. Mario, Mario, Pit/Dark Pit, Zelda (frame 5)
--
3. Diddy, Fox, Lucina/Marth, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina (frame 6)
4. Duck Hunt, Falco, Mii Swordsman, ROB, Yoshi (frame 7)
--
5. Pikachu, Wario, Villager (frame 8)
6. Link, Mii Fighter, Mii Gunner, Samus, Toon Link (frame 9)
--
7. Bowser, Kirby, Little Mac, Ness, Olimar (frame 10)
8. DK, Sheik (frame 11)
--
9. Sonic (frame 12)
10. Ike (frame 13)
--
11. Charizard, Jigglypuff, King DeDeDe (frame 14)
12. Bowser Jr, G&W, Ganondorf (frame 15)
--
13. Greninja, Robin (frame 16)
14. Mega Man, Palutena (frame 17)
--
15. Pac-Man, Shulk, Wii Fit (frame 18)
16. Captain Falcon, Lucario (frame 19)
--
17. ZSS (frame 20)

Spoiler: Neutral Airs

Fastest Nair:

1. Little Mac, Mega Man (frame 2)
--
2. Dr. Mario, Falco, Luigi, Mario, Mii Fighter, Villager, Pac-Man, Pikachu, Sheik, Yoshi (frame 3)
3. Fox, Pit/Dark Pit, Wario (frame 4)
--
4. Ness, Palutena, Peach (frame 5)
5. Duck Hunt, Jigglypuff, Lucina/Marth, Meta Knight, Sonic, Toon Link, Zelda (frame 6)
--
6. Bowser Jr, Captain Falcon, G&W, Ganondorf, King DeDeDe, Link, Olimar (frame 7)
7. Bowser, Charizard, Diddy, Lucario, Mii Gunner, Samus (frame 8)
--
8. Robin, Rosalina, Wii Fit (frame 9)
9. DK, Kirby, ZSS (frame 10)
--
10. Greninja, Ike, Mii Swordsman (frame 12)
11. Shulk (frame 13)
--
12. ROB (frame 18)

Spoiler: Forward Airs

Fastest Fair:

1. Pac-Man, Sheik, Sonic, Wario (frame 5)
2. Diddy, Lucina/Marth, ROB, Samus, ZSS (frame 6)
--
3. Duck Hunt, Fox, Lucario, Luigi, Olimar (frame 7)
4. Charizard, Jigglypuff, Mii Fighter, Ness (frame 8)
--
5. Meta Knight, Palutena, Mega Man, Wii Fit, Zelda (frame 9)
6. Bowser Jr, G&W, Kirby, Little Mac, Mii Gunner, Pikachu, Villager (frame 10)
--
7. Bowser, Mii Swordsman, Pit/Dark Pit, Rosalina (frame 11)
8. Falco, Ike, Robin (frame 12)
--
9. King DeDeDe (frame 13)
10. Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Link, Shulk, Toon Link (frame 14)
--
11. Dr. Mario, Greninja, Mario, Yoshi (frame 16)
--
12. DK (frame 18)

Spoiler: Back Airs

Fastest Bair:

1. Falco, Pikachu, Mega Man, Sheik (frame 4)
--
2. Diddy, Greninja, Wii Fit (frame 5)
3. Dr. Mario, Kirby, Link, Luigi, Mario, Peach, Zelda (frame 6)
--
4. DK, Duck Hunt, Ike, Lucina/Marth, Meta Knight, Mii Fighter, Toon Link (frame 7)
5. Mii Swordsman, Palutena, ZSS (frame 8)
--
6. Fox, Bowser, Mii Gunner, Pac-Man, Robin, Rosalina, Samus, Wario (frame 9)
7. Captain Falcon, G&W, Ganondorf, Ness, Olimar, Pit/Dark Pit (frame 10)
--
8. Little Mac, Yoshi (frame 11)
9. Bowser Jr, Jigglypuff (frame 12)
--
10. Villager, Sonic (frame 13)
11. Charizard (frame 14)
--
12. Lucario (frame 16)
13. King DeDeDe (frame 17)
--
14. Shulk (frame 18)
15. ROB (frame 19)

Spoiler: Up Airs

Fastest Uair:

1. Diddy (frame 3)
2. Dr. Mario, Mario, Pikachu, Sheik (frame 4)
--
3. Little Mac, Lucina/Marth, Luigi, Samus, Sonic, Yoshi (frame 5)
4. Bowser Jr, Captain Falcon, DK, Duck Hunt, Meta Knight, Mii Fighter, Villager, Wii Fit, ZSS (frame 6)
--
5. Greninja (frame 7)
6. Ness, Palutena, *-ROB-*, Rosalina, Wario (frame 8)
--
7. Bowser, Fox, Jigglypuff, Pac-Man, Olimar (frame 9)
8. Falco, King DeDeDe, Kirby, Lucario, Peach, Robin (frame 10)
--
9. Link, Mega Man, Mii Swordsman, Toon Link (frame 11)
10. Charizard, Pit/Dark Pit (frame 12)
--
11. Ike (frame 13)
12. Shulk, Zelda (frame 14)
--
13. Mii Gunner (frame 17)

Special Note: ROB's Uair final hit is on frame 26, but I am almost 100% certain that the first hit comes
out on frame 8. It is slightly slower than Greninja's, slightly faster than Fox's, and on par with Wario's. lol

Spoiler: Down Airs

Fastest Dair:

1. Lucario, Meta Knight (frame 4)
--
2. Fox, Mario (frame 5)
3. Pac-Man (frame 6)
--
4. Little Mac, Jigglypuff (frame 7)
5. Villager (frame 8)
--
6. Lucina/Marth, Olimar, Wario (frame 9)
7. Luigi, Palutena, Pit/Dark Pit (frame 10)
--
8. Dr. Mario (frame 11)
9. G&W, Peach (frame 12)
--
10. Robin (frame 13)
11. DK, Duck Hunt, Link, Mii Swordsman, Pikachu, Shulk, ZSS, Zelda (frame 14)
--
12. Bowser Jr, Sheik (frame 15)
13. Captain Falcon, Falco, Ganondorf, Ike, Mii Fighter, Yoshi (frame 16)
--
14. Bowser, Diddy, Greninja, Rosalina, Samus, Sonic, Toon Link (frame 17)
15. Charizard, Kirby (frame 18)
--
16. Mii Gunner, Ness, ROB, Wii Fit (frame 20)
--
17. King DeDeDe (frame 22)
18. Mega Man (frame 23)

Spoiler: Grabs

Fastest Grab:

1. Diddy, Dr. Mario, Fox, G&W, Kirby, Lucario, Luigi, Mario, Mii Fighter/Gunner/Swordsman, Ness,
Peach, Pikachu, Pit/Dark Pit, Jigglypuff, Mega Man, Rosalina, Sheik, Sonic, Wii Fit (frame 6-7)
--
2. Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, King DeDeDe, Ike, Lucina/Marth,
Meta Knight, Palutena, ROB, Robin, Shulk (frame 7-8)
--
3. Charizard, DK, Duck Hunt, Falco, Wario (frame 8-9)
--
4. Bowser, Little Mac (frame 9-10)
--
5a. Zelda (frame 10-11)
5b. Olimar (frame 10-?)
--
6a. Bowser Jr (frame 12-13)
6b. Link, Toon Link (frame 12-18)
6c. Pac-Man (frame 12-14, 22-25, 32-39)
--
7a. Greninja (frame 14-15)
7b. Yoshi (frame 14-24)
--
8. Villager (frame 15-16)
--
9a. Samus (frame 16-25)
9b. ZSS (frame 16-29)

Spoiler: Dash Grabs

Fastest Dash Grab:

1. Diddy, Dr. Mario, G&W, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Lucario, Luicina/Marth, Luigi, Mario,
Mega Man, Ness, Peach, Pikachu, Pit/Dark Pit, Robin, Rosalina, Sheik, Wario (frame 8-9)
--
2. Captain Falcon, Greninja, King DeDeDe, Meta Knight, Palutena, ROB, Shulk, Wii Fit (frame 9-10)
--
3. Bowser, Charizard, DK, Duck Hunt, Falco, Fox, Ike, Little Mac, Sonic (frame 10-11)
--
4a. Ganondorf, Zelda (frame 11-12)
4b. Yoshi (frame 11-21)
--
5. Pac-Man (frame 12-14, 22-25, 32-39)
--
6. Bowser Jr (frame 13-14)
--
7. Link, Toon Link (frame 14-20)
--
8a. Villager (frame 16-17)
8b. Samus (frame 16-26)
8c. ZSS (frame 16-29)

Spoiler: Pivot Grabs

Fastest Pivot Grab:

1. Wario (frame 8-9)
--
2. Diddy, Dr. Mario, G&W, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Lucina/Marth, Luigi, Mario,
Mega Man, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Pit/Dark Pit, Robin, Rosalina, Sheik (frame 9-10)
--
3a. Duck Hunt, Ganondorf, King DeDeDe, Kirby, Ness, Palutena, Peach, Shulk, Sonic, Wii Fit (frame 10-11)
3b. Yoshi (frame 10-20)
--
4. Bowser, Charizard, DK, Falco, Fox, Ike, Little Mac, ROB, Zelda (frame 11-12)
--
5a. Bowser Jr, Captain Falcon (frame 12-13)
5b. Pac-Man (frame 12-14, 22-25, 32-39)
--
6a. Greninja (frame 15-16)
6b. Link, Toon Link (frame 15-21)
--
7a. Villager (frame 17-18)
7b. Samus (frame 17-28)
7c. ZSS (frame 17-29)

 

[Lavani]

No data for Link/Olimar, but I have a table of grab active frames:

Spoiler

Character | Grab | Dash Grab | Pivot Grab
Mario | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Luigi | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Peach | 06-07f | 08-09f | 10-11f
Bowser | 09-10f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Yoshi | 14-24f | 11-21f | 10-20f
Rosalina | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Koopalings | 12-13f | 13-14f | 12-13f
Wario | 08-09f | 08-09f | 08-09f
Mr. Game & Watch | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
DK | 08-09f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Diddy | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Link | | |
Zelda | 10-11f | 11-12f | 11-12f
Sheik | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Ganondorf | 07-08f | 11-12f | 10-11f
Toon Link | 12-18f | 14-20f | 15-21f
Samus | 16-25f | 16-26f | 17-28f
Zero Suit Samus | 16-29f | 16-29f | 17-29f
Pit | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Palutena | 07-08f | 09-10f | 10-11f
Marth | 07-08f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Ike | 07-08f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Robin | 07-08f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Kirby | 06-07f | 08-09f | 10-11f
Dedede | 07-08f | 09-10f | 10-11f
Meta Knight | 07-08f | 09-10f | 09-10f
Little Mac | 09-10f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Fox | 06-07f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Falco | 08-09f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Pikachu | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Charizard | 08-09f | 10-11f | 11-12f
Lucario | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Jigglypuff | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Greninja | 14-15f | 09-10f | 15-16f
Duck Hunt | 08-09f | 10-11f | 10-11f
R.O.B. | 07-08f | 09-10f | 11-12f
Ness | 06-07f | 08-09f | 10-11f
Captain Falcon | 07-08f | 09-10f | 12-13f
Villager | 15-16f | 16-17f | 17-18f
Olimar | | |
Wii Fit Trainer | 06-07f | 09-10f | 10-11f
Dr. Mario | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Dark Pit | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Lucina | 07-08f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Shulk | 07-08f | 09-10f | 10-11f
Pac-Man | 12-14f, 22-25f, 32-39f | 12-14f, 22-25f, 32-39f | 12-14f, 22-25f, 32-39f
Megaman | 06-07f | 08-09f | 09-10f
Sonic | 06-07f | 10-11f | 10-11f

 

[Octagon]

Thank you so much this helps a ton to compare attack frames and see the pros and cons of moves of characters

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

One way how this data can be used:



Jab: 2nd fastest (Out of 10; frame 2)
DA: 3rd fastest (Out of 15; frame 6)
Ftilt: 2nd fastest (Out of 11; frame 5)
Utilt: 3rd fastest (Out of 12; frame 5)
Dtilt: 3rd fastest (Out of 11; frame 5)
FS: 6th fastest (Out of 16; frame 15)
US: 5th fastest (Out of 19; frame 9)
DS: 2nd fastest (Out of 17; frame 5)
Nair: 2nd fastest (Out of 12; frame 3)
Fair: 11th fastest (Out of 12; frame 16)
Bair: 3rd fastest (Out of 15; frame 6)
Uair: 2nd fastest (Out of 13; frame 4)
Dair: 2nd fastest (Out of 18; frame 5)

148 out of 181 total places = Overall ~81.767955801% faster attack speed (initial frame) in comparison to the rest of the cast/attacks.

 

[mimgrim]

You don't have Mii Gunner listed in Dtilt section or Mii Swordsman listed in Bair section. Those were the only two I noticed. But I was specifically looking for Gunner stuff and just did CTR+F Mii.

 

[Conda]

I wonder if there's a reason for Greninja's standing grab being as slow as a tether grab.

 

[Djent]

Missing Palutena's BAir (which is good).

 

[FullMoon]

I wonder if there's a reason for Greninja's standing grab being as slow as a tether grab.

Greninja's grab lasts quite a while from what I understand, I've even had people run into the grab a little while after I used it thinking it was safe. Which makes me wonder if you can, for instance, grab someone using a move like Sonic's spindash if you time your grab well, since that way they're going to run right into the whirlpool,

 

[Conda]

Well it's clearly supposed to be the move 'whirlpool', so it makes sense that it'd have special qualities. But darn it's so slow. The rest of his moveset is as well, so it hurts.

 

[Lavani]

I wonder if there's a reason for Greninja's standing grab being as slow as a tether grab.

I get the feeling Greninja was intentionally given poor OoS options, given his slow standing grab, aerials, and upB, the fact that his upB isn't exactly an offensive tool, and his usmash being slow to hit to his sides. And his dash grab not being similarly slow.

I'm not sure why he was designed as such, but it certainly feels intentional to me.

 

[Conda]

I get the feeling Greninja was intentionally given poor OoS options, given his slow standing grab, aerials, and upB, the fact that his upB isn't exactly an offensive tool, and his usmash being slow to hit to his sides. And his dash grab not being similarly slow.

I'm not sure why he was designed as such, but it certainly feels intentional to me.

I think it's to direct his playstyle. He's designed as an in-and-out character, similar to Sonic. He is at an advantageous position when utilizing mobility - either offensively or defensively. Thus they made him have less effective options if you play him constantly in your opponent's face.

Sheild grabs don't work as well, because you're not supposed to be shielding attacks as often as you are supposed to be physically dashing away or jumping around instead. The devs, by doing this, force you to play in a slippery manner.

Tether grabs do the same thing for the character that have them - it forces depending on mid-long range options, and creates discomfort when it comes to being pressured at close ranges. Greninja, while a quick speedster brawler, is still created to have that design flaw. Which is unique to him, as Sheik or Fox are not and they have good projectiles too (Sheik moreso).

It's interesting and makes you play Greninja differently. The issue is that he doesn't feel like he has a lot to make up for that, though. He's forced out of having good quick CQC options (nair is not the sexkick most speedsters rely heavily on), but doesn't really have to mid range dominance he deserves in return to balance things out. The lag on shuriken makes it predictable and easy to perfect shield, the reward is not high unless fully charged, and shadow sneak is far too laggy to be used to approach or even punish most of the time.

Working around those issues and limitations is what makes Greninja more difficult to play, compared to characters who can be played in a multitude of styles due to their strengths in each area. Greninja has clear flaws in some areas, which limits his abilities.

 

[Lavani]

It's interesting and makes you play Greninja differently. The issue is that he doesn't feel like he has a lot to make up for that, though. He's forced out of having good quick CQC options (nair is not the sexkick most speedsters rely heavily on), but doesn't really have to mid range dominance he deserves in return to balance things out. The lag on shuriken makes it predictable and easy to perfect shield, the reward is not high unless fully charged, and shadow sneak is far too laggy to be used to approach or even punish most of the time.

This is sort of what I meant by "I'm not sure why he was designed as such". It doesn't feel like he has tools to justify the loss of OoS options.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Adding the characters I missed right now. Will get to grab data eventually/when I have time~

Thanks for the list @ Lavani !

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Grabs have been added! The only thing the OP lacks now is specials/custom specials, which I probably won't cover anyways.

I will add this information to a pastebin eventually, unless someone else wants to do that for me lol

 

[Teshie U]

This is sort of what I meant by "I'm not sure why he was designed as such". It doesn't feel like he has tools to justify the loss of OoS options.

Well none of the speedy characters got amazing OoS options. They probably were designed to maneuver around moves instead of sit in shield and punish.

Greninja got a great jab, low profile, and is the only character to get a great vertical and horizontal movement game. His pivot grab is also just plain ridiculous.

 

[Lavani]

Well none of the speedy characters got amazing OoS options. They probably were designed to maneuver around moves instead of sit in shield and punish.

Greninja got a great jab, low profile, and is the only character to get a great vertical and horizontal movement game. His pivot grab is also just plain ridiculous.

Mario has a frame 3 upB, ZSS has a frame 4 upB.
Aside from the tether grabbers, most all fast characters have 6~7f grabs and 3~5f nairs.

Greninja's usmash hits above him at 12f, but it doesn't hit to his sides (with the sourspot) until 18f (and I don't think it's realistically covering his sides until ~20f). I'm not going to bother citing names for this, the 12f-and-under usmash club is pretty densely populated.

Greninja's fastest OoS option is shielddrop jab at 10f, and that is pathetically slow and limited compared to the options characters like Sheik, Fox, or Mario have, among others.

 

[FullMoon]

Is Greninja's pivot grab really of any note? I pretty much never use pivot grabs in general.

 

[Lavani]

Is Greninja's pivot grab really of any note? I pretty much never use pivot grabs in general.

The range is good and the end lag isn't bad, but it's still slow like his standing grab (slower actually, but most pivot grabs are) and it still has less range than a handful of other pivot grabs - iirc none of those are from agile characters though, ignoring tethers.

Personally I find it pretty good for what it is.

 

[Teshie U]

I wouldn't have considered Mario to be a speedy rushdown character. ZSS and Mario are more of zoning characters.

I was talking about the quick moving characters that get past defenses quickly and generally don't have quick defenses themselves.

Naturally with a rostor of 50 characters you can't limit every character in the same ways. Sonic, Falcon and Greninja all got slow upsmashes OoS, and aerials that aren't great OoS. The rushdown characters that do have quick OoS options suffer from small sweetspots/limited coverage and weak kill power on these punishes in most cases.

Sakurai did state that he was willing to sacrifice balanced for characters to feel unique though.

Greninja's pivot grab covers an area very similar to a tether characters with the lag of a normal pivot grab.

 

[Ffamran]

One way how this data can be used:



Jab: 2nd fastest (Out of 10; frame 2)
DA: 3rd fastest (Out of 15; frame 6)
Ftilt: 2nd fastest (Out of 11; frame 5)
Utilt: 3rd fastest (Out of 12; frame 5)
Dtilt: 3rd fastest (Out of 11; frame 5)
FS: 6th fastest (Out of 16; frame 15)
US: 5th fastest (Out of 19; frame 9)
DS: 2nd fastest (Out of 17; frame 5)
Nair: 2nd fastest (Out of 12; frame 3)
Fair: 11th fastest (Out of 12; frame 16)
Bair: 3rd fastest (Out of 15; frame 6)
Uair: 2nd fastest (Out of 13; frame 4)
Dair: 2nd fastest (Out of 18; frame 5)

148 out of 181 total places = Overall ~81.767955801% faster attack speed (initial frame) in comparison to the rest of the cast/attacks.

Ooo, my turn. Hmm, I hope in the future there's a way to check a character's frame data ranking. Anyway...

. Really? Falco's frame speed is actually fairly fast and fairly decent. Now if only the pheasant would actually dash faster or flap his wings to move faster in the air. MOVE FASTER, POKEY FALCO! FASTER! ... FASTER! ... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, FASTER!

Spoiler

Jab: 2nd fastest at frame 2; out of 10 characters.
Dash Attack: 5th fastest at frame 5; out of 6 characters.
Ftilt: 3rd fastest at frame 6; out of 7 characters.
Utilt: 3rd fastest at frame 5; out of 10 characters.
Dtilt: 5th fastest at frame 7; out of 10 characters.
Side Smash: 8th fastest at frame 17; out of 4 characters.
Up Smash: 4th fastest at frame 8; out of 6 characters.
Down Smash: 4th fastest at frame 7; out of 5 characters.
Nair: 2nd fastest at frame 3; out of 10 characters.
Fair: 8th fastest at frame 12; out of 3 characters.
Bair: The fastest at frame 4; out of 4 characters.
Uair: 8th fastest at frame 10; out of 6 characters.
Dair: 13th fastest at frame 16; out of 6 characters.
Grab: 3rd fastest at frame 8-9; out of characters.
Dash grab: 3rd fastest at frame 10-11; out of with 9 characters.
Pivot grab: 4th fastest at frame 11-12; out of 9 characters.

. Because I was curious about her frame speed data and that people said she is one of the faster characters... Well, her Side Smash is the fastest, Fair second, Jab third, and Uair third. She seems all right, though. I don't know much about her in SSB4, unfortunately.

Spoiler

Jab: 3rd fastest at frame 3; out 9 characters.
Dash Attack: 7th fastest at frame 10; out of 6 characters.
Ftilt: 5th fastest at frame 8; out of 4 characters.
Utilt: 11th fastest at frame 15; hers alone.
Dtilt: 4th fastest at frame 6; out of 7 characters.
Side Smash: The fastest at frame 10; out of 4 characters.
Up Smash: 7th fastest at frame 11; out of 7 characters.
Down Smash: 6th fastest at frame 9; out of 5 characters.
Nair: 7th fastest at frame 8; out of 6 characters.
Fair: 2nd fastest at frame 6; out of 6 characters.
Bair: 6th fastest at frame 9; out of 8 characters.
Uair: 3rd fastest at frame 5; out of 7 characters.
Dair: 14th fastest at frame 17; out of 7 characters.
Grab: 9th fastest at frame 16-25; technically out of 2 since ZSS's starts at 16, but ends at frame 29.
Dash Grab: 8th fastest at frame 16-26; technically out of 3 since Villager's ends at frame 17 and ZSS's ends at 29 making Samus the "second fastest" of the 3.
Pivot Grab: 7th fastest at frame 17-28; same as the above except Villager's ends at 18 and ZSS's ends at 29.

Oh, and there's a typo in the Pivot Grabs section. Greninja is labeled as "Greninka".

Anyone want to delve into 's? I mean, fastest Uair, anyone? Eh, eh? *gets Falcon Punched*

Edit: Suck at math, too lazy to do math, so I won't figure out the percentage of their frame speeds. Well, I might if I'm that bored.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So, I learned something interesting.

Kirby's Jab actually comes out on frame 1, despite what frame data for it says. It is just as fast as Little Mac's and ZSS's respective jabs.

I had a similar problem recording ROB's Uair since it said it came out WAY later than it actually does. I assume it has something to do with articles. So if anyone finds other moves with similar inconsistencies, let me know.

I think that Villager's Usmash also uses articles, iirc.

 

[Locke 06]

Mega Man's stuff is weird. Nair/ftilt/jab are functionally f7 according to what the mega man boards have found. Also, including Mii's would be nice.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Mega Man's stuff is weird. Nair/ftilt/jab are functionally f7 according to what the mega man boards have found. Also, including Mii's would be nice.

(ohrightIkeepforgettingabouttheMiislolsorryaboutthat)

Also, can you provide a link for Mega Man's jab? That sounds very interesting.

I'll add the Miis sometime soon.

 

[Locke 06]

(ohrightIkeepforgettingabouttheMiislolsorryaboutthat)

Also, can you provide a link for Mega Man's jab? That sounds very interesting.

I'll add the Miis sometime soon.

http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-data-2014-11-2-huge-update.375868/

and I'm pretty sure @Greward has done some actual testing to confirm it? F2 likely refers to being able to move or something similar. @ Indigo Jeans and I are somewhat stumped on it, but just by playing the game you can tell it's not F2. F7 feels about right as that makes it 1 frame slower than his utilt. This is true for his jab, ftilt, and NAir.

Another way you can tell is because a rising NAir doesn't shoot really close to the ground like you would expect it to if it were F2.

 

[The_Paradiddler]

Sonic's F-tilt is missing. Great guide though, really interesting!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-data-2014-11-2-huge-update.375868/

and I'm pretty sure @Greward has done some actual testing to confirm it? F2 likely refers to being able to move or something similar. @ Indigo Jeans and I are somewhat stumped on it, but just by playing the game you can tell it's not F2. F7 feels about right as that makes it 1 frame slower than his utilt. This is true for his jab, ftilt, and NAir.

Another way you can tell is because a rising NAir doesn't shoot really close to the ground like you would expect it to if it were F2.

Hmm very interesting. I will definitely take a look into this. Thanks for the info!

Sonic's F-tilt is missing. Great guide though, really interesting!

Thanks! Also, Sonic's Ftilt is on frame 6/added it to the list. Pretty fast considering how much range it has!

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Villager's USmash's setup hits are active F12-13, the first explosion hits F17, and they hit every 4F with a duration of 2F each (17-18, 21-22, 25-26, 29-30, 33-34)

It is an article but articles actually arent too difficult to figure out. For the most part, each article-calling unk acts as an input frame. There are weird differences between synch and asynch timers in this sort of thing but I made a post about it in the CDRT

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So, I learned something interesting.

Kirby's Jab actually comes out on frame 1, despite what frame data for it says. It is just as fast as Little Mac's and ZSS's respective jabs.

I had a similar problem recording ROB's Uair since it said it came out WAY later than it actually does. I assume it has something to do with articles. So if anyone finds other moves with similar inconsistencies, let me know.

I think that Villager's Usmash also uses articles, iirc.

Kirby's jab isn't F1, I just tested it against both Little Mac's and ZSS's. Also, ROB's UAir doesn't involve articles, but it does use external subroutines for the weaker hits, which might make the real hitbox frame out 1F off if they work like article-calling unks

 

[DunnoBro]

Fastest Grab:

1. Diddy

Oh.

Fastest Dash Grab:

1. Diddy

Ah...

Fastest Uair:

1. Diddy (frame 3)

Welp, I'm not sure what I expected.

 

[CarbuncleHero]

http://smashboards.com/threads/upda...ox-frames-for-pikachu-on-3ds-and-wiiu.392029/
The data for pikachu in version 1.04 almost certainly did not match the data for pikachu in the wii version 1.02, nor the data in the latest update. Can someone please verify this data for me using data gathered from the game itself? Thanks in advance! I also noticed mario had a few changes...

 

[deepseadiva]

Wow this thread is excellent.