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Lip and Jill, unassumingly cute, immeasurably dangerous.

Algus Underdunk

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Most players will agree Brawl does lack a 'variety' to its females. At the moment we've got two Princesses, and a bounty hunter. There's also a cute little inuit as well, but she's always teamed up with Popo ;)

But really, allow me to suggest two cute characters that represent two great franchises, and could prove themselves as really worthwhile characters to play as.

Let's start off with Lip. Despite being a Japanese-exclusive character until recently (thanks to a DS iteration of Panel de Pon), many are already familiar with her. Indeed, her weapon known as "Lip's Stick" has already appeared in Melee and reappears in Brawl. Her 'Garbage Block' move from the Panel de Pon games also appears as one of Kirby's Down B special transformations.

So let's look at Lip. She's definitely a cutey, having an adorable face, a small stature, the ability to pout with the best of them, and her weaponry involves flowers and rainbows. In combat, however, it seems perfectly reasonable that she'd be able to summon up colored blocks from the ground to either toss her enemies or form a shield, rapidly shift herself with an enemy, zip around on rainbows, drop garbage blocks from above, or even do the classic 'flower on head' bit.

Her lineage shows her to be descended from a Goddess and a demon, meaning Palutena would have some competition in the 'dieities in Smash Bros' department. Additionally, many who played Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack/Pokemon Puzzle League will admit that it's a fun and addictive game, especially when played multiplayer.

Now let's shift gears (to third, appropriately) and look at another cute little girl who definitely doesn't put off the same vibe Lip does.

Jill is the main character of Drill Dozer (Screw Breaker in Japan), a game made by Game Freak, the same company that makes the Pokemon games. Hints of the Pokemon series are snuck into Drill Dozer, including an alternate costume for Jill that is that of a female Pokemon Trainer.

Jill herself isn't a cute little fairy like Lip is. Instead she's a vicious little thief with a definite mean streak. She has a cute face, true, and adorable curled up pink ponytails, but she often has a mischievious grin and a macho outlook on how to deal with a situation. If she can demolish something to solve a problem, she considers it a good day.

Jill fights through a number of means. Primarily, she rides around in a device known as a Drill Dozer, a heavy machine with two arms shaped like the halves of a large drill bit. When united, these form a powerful drill which can smash through walls, armored tanks, deflect weaponry, etc. The Dozer also allows for increased jumping prowess, dashing along at high speed, flight, underwater navigation and more.

Let's consider Jill herself now. Even without leaving the Drill Dozer, Jill's still capable of using her bare fists to do some fighting, as evidenced by the final battle of Drill Dozer, in which Jill uses her own mitts to deliver the coup de gras to the final boss. Picture a fighter that's able to fight with two sets of arms. Consider a grab in which she uses her own arms to grab someone, while the Dozer's drills hit them repeatedly.

Jill and Lip are definitely on opposite ends of the spectrum. Jill's macho and vicious, Lip's adorable and sweet. Lip relies on magic and flowers, Jill relies on technology and machinery. Lip's a fairy, Jill's a thief. Lip's lightweight, Jill, in her Dozer, is a definite heavyweight.


As a team these two would be quite a challenge to defend against, with Jill's sheer strength and destructive force, and Lip's mind-games and techniques. Plus, you've got two cute little girls, something the roster's definitely lacking in, as well as two great Nintendo franchises finally getting the recognition they deserve.
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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Ever since I got my hands on Screw Breaker, Jill's been up in my top five most wanted newcomers. It'd be awsome to see her rip her opponents a new one with that Dozer of hers, plus a small-but-heavy character would be a nice twist too.
 

Algus Underdunk

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Ever since I got my hands on Screw Breaker, Jill's been up in my top five most wanted newcomers. It'd be awsome to see her rip her opponents a new one with that Dozer of hers, plus a small-but-heavy character would be a nice twist too.
Ay, that's the other thing that excites me for Jill is the concept of a heavy-weight character that isn't as massive as characters like Bowser, DK, Wario, etc. A character that's small and heavy would be a great addition, and a good counter to all the characters that can fly.

It could very well lead to a strategy war of 'Being able to stand your ground' vs 'Being able to recover your ground' ^_^
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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Ay, that's the other thing that excites me for Jill is the concept of a heavy-weight character that isn't as massive as characters like Bowser, DK, Wario, etc. A character that's small and heavy would be a great addition, and a good counter to all the characters that can fly.

It could very well lead to a strategy war of 'Being able to stand your ground' vs 'Being able to recover your ground' ^_^
I never thought of it like that, I like the idea. It would make for some interesting matches. ;)
 

Algus Underdunk

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I never thought of it like that, I like the idea. It would make for some interesting matches. ;)
*nods*

And also consider someone like Lip. While she'd definitely lack Jill's raw power, Lip could very well be capable of messing with other players, such as altering their location with a Panel de Pon style 'flip' between two locations, lifting them into the air on a pile of Panel de Pon tiles, pushing them down with a Garbage Block, etc.

Basically, she'd be a great character to position another player exactly where you wanted them.

Team that up with Jill's strength and precision detructive force, and you've got a tag-team that puts most others to shame.
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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*nods*

And also consider someone like Lip. While she'd definitely lack Jill's raw power, Lip could very well be capable of messing with other players, such as altering their location with a Panel de Pon style 'flip' between two locations, lifting them into the air on a pile of Panel de Pon tiles, pushing them down with a Garbage Block, etc.

Basically, she'd be a great character to position another player exactly where you wanted them.

Team that up with Jill's strength and precision detructive force, and you've got a tag-team that puts most others to shame.
I definately support Lip as well, I just support Jill more. ;)

Lip would be a great character to include, I especially like your character swap ability, that would make for some nice escape strategies, not to mention disorienting your opponents. Plus, it's the kind of move that's just plain fun to use to annoy everyone too. :grin:
 

Misto-Roboto

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Addictive, **** straight, I even have my hosting company sponsoring a Panel de Pon site simply because I can't stop playing it.
 

Algus Underdunk

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I definately support Lip as well, I just support Jill more. ;)

Lip would be a great character to include, I especially like your character swap ability, that would make for some nice escape strategies, not to mention disorienting your opponents. Plus, it's the kind of move that's just plain fun to use to annoy everyone too. :grin:
Ayup, and it's a great call back to the Panel de Pon franchise.

So instead of something like Mario's Cape or Mewtwo's Confusion which simply turns the enemy around, this would essentially exchange Lip and her enemy, so if someone's charging straight at you, they'd be charging right past you. You could also use it to send projectiles past you, like dodging but one that can mess with your enemies... Or flipping an enemy into a dangerous situation (bob-omb) and yourself out of one ;)


Addictive, **** straight, I even have my hosting company sponsoring a Panel de Pon site simply because I can't stop playing it.

See? How can a game THAT addictive not get representation? It may not be as huge or widely known as Legend of Zelda or Mario Brothers, but it's definitely made so well that once you play it you're hooked.

The same goes for Drill Dozer. If they put out a sequel this very evening, I know I'd retrieve it somehow.
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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Ayup, and it's a great call back to the Panel de Pon franchise.

So instead of something like Mario's Cape or Mewtwo's Confusion which simply turns the enemy around, this would essentially exchange Lip and her enemy, so if someone's charging straight at you, they'd be charging right past you. You could also use it to send projectiles past you, like dodging but one that can mess with your enemies... Or flipping an enemy into a dangerous situation (bob-omb) and yourself out of one ;)
And the perfect counter for edge-guarding.
 

Conformal_Invariance

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I always saw Lip's attacks as being more Flora-based, with a few garbage blocks thrown here and there and a couple Panel de Pon related abilities that remind players of the franchise from which she hails.

And the Rainbow Recovery, Panel Swap ideas are just lovely.

Though their chances of getting in are even less, I also love Thiana and Flare.

Like... Up tilt would summon a rising 3x1 column that would pop up and send the opponent into the air, or something...
 

Triple_Factorial

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Lip is already confirmed as an item. Jill Valentine is owned by Capcom.
Wrong Jill ;)

====

Also, I just thought of what would probably be one of the most ironic things for Brawl that one can think of. A high-tier character (Lip) and a mid-tier character (Jill) having the most potential as a team out of 2000-2500 possible team combinations.

I say one of b/c of the Pokemon Trainer being one of the most popular newcomers, despite the fact that before he was confirmed you'd get flamed by almost everyone just for suggesting him.
 

PrettyGoodYear

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Lip is not confirmed as an item, her stick is. She hasn't been Assist Trophied, so she's still likely. I actually hate that they confirmed Lip's stick in the Munchlax update... if it had it's own update we'd know. (If it had the Smash Bros. Icon, or a new, Panel de Pon icon)
 

Algus Underdunk

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Lip is not confirmed as an item, her stick is. She hasn't been Assist Trophied, so she's still likely. I actually hate that they confirmed Lip's stick in the Munchlax update... if it had it's own update we'd know. (If it had the Smash Bros. Icon, or a new, Panel de Pon icon)
No worries there, there hasn't been a character yet (i.e., Samus, Mario, etc.) whose abilities or appearance was altered due to an item that gives them their attack powers also being separately available (i.e., Screw Attack, Fire Flower, etc.)

And technically, if Sakurai was clever, he would make it 'Furil's Stick', instead of 'Lip's Stick' ;)

(Lip's daughter later in the series, Furil, wields an identical looking stick to her mum's)

And yes, please read the topic, it's Jill from Drill Dozer, not Resident Evil -_- I thought I spelled that out rather well in the first post saying "Drill Dozer" and "Jill from Drill Dozer" several times :p
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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That's perfect :D

You're heading back towards a ledge with Lip, someone gets ready to attack you, and PING! Suddenly you're the one standing on the ledge, and they're executing their attack in mid-air, facing the wrong way.
I was just thinking more about it, it should also be perfect against those who jump after her when she's recovering and those who hang on the ledge so she can't grab it, just a simple swap and they're falling to their doom. It'll definately make players have to rethink their tactics. ;)

If she's able to have this move in Brawl, she's definately bumped way up in my most wanted list. ;)
 

Algus Underdunk

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I was just thinking more about it, it should also be perfect against those who jump after her when she's recovering and those who hang on the ledge so she can't grab it, just a simple swap and they're falling to their doom. It'll definately make players have to rethink their tactics. ;)

If she's able to have this move in Brawl, she's definately bumped way up in my most wanted list. ;)
Ay, I always like the idea of characters that make people have to change up their strategies. Jill being small and having a heavy weight index making her trickier to knock off, Lip being fast and able to swap people making it harder to keep her from getting back on...

Plus it would show those racka-fracka edge hogs what's what!


...And imagine flinging down a motion-sensor mine at your feet then swapping someone next to you :D
 

Triple_Factorial

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I was just thinking more about it, it should also be perfect against those who jump after her when she's recovering and those who hang on the ledge so she can't grab it, just a simple swap and they're falling to their doom. It'll definately make players have to rethink their tactics. ;)

If she's able to have this move in Brawl, she's definately bumped way up in my most wanted list. ;)
Don't you get to use your midair after letting go of the ledge (volintarily or not) in Smash?
 

Algus Underdunk

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Don't you get to use your midair after letting go of the ledge (volintarily or not) in Smash?
Most assuredly, yeah, you get to.

But consider this.

Your opponent is facing you, you're off the ledge trying to head back to recover. They get ready to attack, when you use Lip's "Tile Swap" special to exchange places with them. They can use their recovery immediately, true, but they're facing the wrong way! Many folks know the horror of using Kirby or Mario's recovery while facing away from the ledge and going the wrong way.

Of course if they don't overact too much they should be able to mid-air jump to recover quickly, but this would give the Lip player time to set up their own edge-guard ;)
 

Triple_Factorial

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Most assuredly, yeah, you get to.

But consider this.

Your opponent is facing you, you're off the ledge trying to head back to recover. They get ready to attack, when you use Lip's "Tile Swap" special to exchange places with them. They can use their recovery immediately, true, but they're facing the wrong way! Many folks know the horror of using Kirby or Mario's recovery while facing away from the ledge and going the wrong way.

Of course if they don't overact too much they should be able to mid-air jump to recover quickly, but this would give the Lip player time to set up their own edge-guard ;)
That's one of the reasons I think the Tile Swap would end up the next Reflector if you get my drift ;)
 

Algus Underdunk

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That's one of the reasons I think the Tile Swap would end up the next Reflector if you get my drift ;)
Heh, no kidding.

Although since Tile Swap wouldn't be able to -return- an object, only exchange it with Lip, it wouldn't be as versatile (heh, versaTile Swap) as the Reflector, and I imagine after several matches against her people would be aware of Lip's abilities and attempt to compensate...

But yeah, I love the idea of beating people up with cute little girls :p


Huh.

Consider this.


Imagine a sequence in Adventure Mode where the path diverges into a secret battle, and you can only get in there if you use Lip's Tile Swap to get her to the other side of a wall :D I like the idea of sneaky little secrets like that. Like a pathway that only Samus's morphball could fit through or an area only Mr.Game and Watch could squeeze through due to his flatness...
 

Black/Light

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I have supported both Jill Drill and Lip for along time now. I hope atleast one of them got in when characters where being picked ( Jill if I had to choose one. . . .GameFreak should really get more credit for making games other than the Pokemon series. They are actually pretty good at making Platformers with game like Drill Dozer and Plusman(sp) ).
 

Algus Underdunk

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I have supported both Jill Drill and Lip for along time now. I hope atleast one of them got in when characters where being picked ( Jill if I had to choose one. . . .GameFreak should really get more credit for making games other than the Pokemon series. They are actually pretty good at making Platformers with game like Drill Dozer and Plusman(sp) ).
Pulseman.

Ay, Drill Dozer is a fantastic platformer with a lot of unique hooks to it, and Jill her self is very expressive and memorable. Heck, the fight sequence where a security tower in the back ground transforms into a robot and leaps into the foreground is pretty fantastic.

I find it amusing that Lip and Jill could counter Yoshi and Pikachu for a number of reason. Lip for the fact that both of them replaced her in some of the American versions of Panel de Pon (Lip finally appeared herself in a recent DS version), and Jill would definitely be going after Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer for bumping her out of the spotlight ;)
 

Sinn

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First of all, I totally support Lip and hope she's a character. What with all the characters that MIGHT be added in this game, she's probably the one, hands down, that I would main because not only is she the lead in my favorite puzzle game of all time, but she's a female...which is what I usually play as.

Second...there's a Panel de Pon DS game? Like...really? I got Planet Puzzle League...is there ANOTHER with Lip actually IN it? O_O I MUST have this game D=
 

Algus Underdunk

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First of all, I totally support Lip and hope she's a character. What with all the characters that MIGHT be added in this game, she's probably the one, hands down, that I would main because not only is she the lead in my favorite puzzle game of all time, but she's a female...which is what I usually play as.

Second...there's a Panel de Pon DS game? Like...really? I got Planet Puzzle League...is there ANOTHER with Lip actually IN it? O_O I MUST have this game D=
I believe it is called Planet Puzzle League for DS. Lip is extremely hard to unlock, however. Most people simply break down and use an AR device to unlock her.

And surprise surprise, in her level, she speaks in English!


...Also curious is the fact that Lip was still the most wanted SNES era rep when the polls for Melee's roster were being taken. The only name higher on the list of NES/SNES representatives was Sukapon, from the NES game Joy Mech Fight ;)
 

Sinn

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O_________________O

YOU CAN UNLOCK LIP IN THAT GAME?

...

Ok, I'm calm. I'm calm. And going to Game FAQS RIGHT now to get to the bottom of this. Like RIGHT NOW.

EDIT: I am sad now...for I cannot find it there... T_T
 

Algus Underdunk

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Sinn

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Well...according to one of the comments...even though it's coded into the US version, it says that you can't actually unlock it (which is kinda similar to how all of the music from the Japanese Panel de Pon were still coded into Tetris Attack, just inaccessible). So...unless someone knows the actual method of unlocking her...I would have to buy this Action Replay thing, which I generally hate doing >.>
 

Algus Underdunk

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Well...according to one of the comments...even though it's coded into the US version, it says that you can't actually unlock it (which is kinda similar to how all of the music from the Japanese Panel de Pon were still coded into Tetris Attack, just inaccessible). So...unless someone knows the actual method of unlocking her...I would have to buy this Action Replay thing, which I generally hate doing >.>
True.

But at least she's still in the game! :D

...I can't figure out for the life of me why Nintendo thinks America's so horribly terrified of little girls.
 

Sinn

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I blame it on their childhoods. But it is a good thing Sakurai is making the game and not them. And as a side note, i didn't know that tidbit about Lip's daughter either...was she the one in the sequel on...GameCube was it?

Now, I've never played any games that Jill has been in...so unfortunately I can't really support her with the same rabid ferocity as I can Lip, but having more females in the roster IS a good thing, and...Nintendo really needs more to choose from.
 

Algus Underdunk

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I blame it on their childhoods. But it is a good thing Sakurai is making the game and not them. And as a side note, i didn't know that tidbit about Lip's daughter either...was she the one in the sequel on...GameCube was it?

Now, I've never played any games that Jill has been in...so unfortunately I can't really support her with the same rabid ferocity as I can Lip, but having more females in the roster IS a good thing, and...Nintendo really needs more to choose from.
Specifically, it would be very nice to have a female fighter who isn't a Princess, or Samus Aran. (Currently two of the female characters are Princesses, and two of them are Samus Aran :p)

Lip and Jill definitely both fit the bill fairly well.

BTW! Drill Dozer, for GBA, should be easily available at any nearby gamestop that sells GBA games! You should be able to get it for ten dollars or less! I heartily endorse heading out to grab a copy of it if you can. It even has a rumble pack built into it to give you a good shake while you play.

And yes, Lip's daughter Furil shows up in the GameCube Panel de Pon game, as part of the big collection of puzzle games. The story follows her battling evil witches and monsters and such. I believe footage of it can be found on YouTube.
 

Sinn

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I'll have to check for Drill Dozer the next time I'm at Game Stop...which might be Wednesday to pick up the Wii DDR and play it all night...oh wait, no...evil, evil unit tests the next day...ok, so I'll get it on Thursday.

I need to go to sleep...gah x_x
 

Algus Underdunk

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I'll have to check for Drill Dozer the next time I'm at Game Stop...which might be Wednesday to pick up the Wii DDR and play it all night...oh wait, no...evil, evil unit tests the next day...ok, so I'll get it on Thursday.

I need to go to sleep...gah x_x
Ay, get yourself some sleep. And do look for Drill Dozer at GameStop, it's definitely worth it.

I, meanwhile, need to go patrol the living room...

*puts on a Space Ranger costumes and stomps off to patrol*

FORCE SHIELD OF FORCEFULNESS!
 

Space_Pirate_Fox_McCloud

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Heh, no kidding.
Imagine a sequence in Adventure Mode where the path diverges into a secret battle, and you can only get in there if you use Lip's Tile Swap to get her to the other side of a wall :D I like the idea of sneaky little secrets like that. Like a pathway that only Samus's morphball could fit through or an area only Mr.Game and Watch could squeeze through due to his flatness...
I really like that idea. It would certainly add to the replay value of the Adventure Mode and open doors for new possible unlockable. Plus, I'm always a fan of secret routes and hidden goodies in games anyway. ;)
 

Sinn

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Lips is awesome. I went out of my way to get the Japanese ROM of the SNES game just so I could play it with her and her respective cast in it. And let me tell you...they are ADORABLE.

I truly hope she makes it in <3
 
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