Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Unforunately i don't have any footage of it , but there is another lock. I tested around on Bowser and found out that you can do great combos by fullhop->bombdthrow->footstool->nairlock what should work against any charakter. You can chain this nairlock setup into itself what would make it an infinite if nair didn't stop locking Bowser @49%. When following it up with an semicharged fsmash at the end of the % rage and close to the ledge , it can even kill. While locking multiple times you can change between starting the locks with direct hit or indirect hit of bombs to get the % you want.
It is something we definitely have to look deeper into and use.
Because it makes Link having an destructive combo game in lower % wich SetUp shouldbe pretty save.

Link's have known about the bomb to footstool to sourspot Nair Lock since Brawl. They've also known that it is in smash 4 but I'm pretty sure it's more difficult now as there is less time to get the Nair. As for chaining them together, I disproved this a while ago. If the opponent holds shield they will avoid the next bomb throw unless you throw the bomb instantly which doesn't give you enough time to jump...

Oh wait. I just had a brilliant idea.

Omg it works! Ok, so you know how I just said that there wasn't enough time? Well gee, if only there was a way to jump and activate the bomb immediately. Only, there is. It's called the instant z-drop, i.e. z-dropping the bomb as you jump which lets you z-drop the bomb without zair and essentially makes the bomb active on the first frame as opposed to having to wait for the whole throwing animation.

We can link together Nair locks, and here's how. The first Nair lock can be done in any way you want, e.g. SH/FH bomb throw down to footstool (it should go without saying to use the SH version of the footstool, not the FH version) then Nair at the peak of the footstool to FF the Nair asap (i.e. the very moment you stop rising and start to fall, hit down). At this point, the only way to get the next Nair lock is to immediately bomb pull, dash in, SH/FH, return the joystick to neutral and z-drop the bomb as you are jumping so that the bomb is within the opponent's hurtbox, the bomb will blow up on the next frame allowing you to footstool them, and then the Nair to FF is the same.

Depending on the character this can be done multiple times, but will eventually stop working when the sourspot Nair starts hitting too hard. The only thing holding you back is your own tech skill.
I should note one more thing before I finish. Because you are able to act immediately after the z-drop it may be tempting to throw out that footstool immediately; only you shouldn't. If you footstool them too close to the ground this gives you less time to get the Nair. Resist the temptation, you have plenty of time to get the footstool.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Link's have known about the bomb to footstool to sourspot Nair Lock since Brawl. They've also known that it is in smash 4 but I'm pretty sure it's more difficult now as there is less time to get the Nair. As for chaining them together, I disproved this a while ago. If the opponent holds shield they will avoid the next bomb throw unless you throw the bomb instantly which doesn't give you enough time to jump...

Oh wait. I just had a brilliant idea.

Omg it works! Ok, so you know how I just said that there wasn't enough time? Well gee, if only there was a way to jump and activate the bomb immediately. Only, there is. It's called the instant z-drop, i.e. z-dropping the bomb as you jump which lets you z-drop the bomb without zair and essentially makes the bomb active on the first frame as opposed to having to wait for the whole throwing animation.

We can link together Nair locks, and here's how. The first Nair lock can be done in any way you want, e.g. FH bomb throw down to footstool to Nair at the peak of the FH to FF the Nair. At this point, the only way to get the next Nair lock is to immediately bomb pull, dash in, FH, return the joystick to neutral and z-drop the bomb as you are jumping so that the bomb is within the opponent's hurtbox, the bomb will blow up on the next frame allowing you to footstool them, and then the Nair to FF is the same.

Depending on the character this can be done multiple times, but will eventually stop working when the sourspot Nair starts hitting too hard. The only thing holding you back is your own tech skill.
I should note one more thing before I finish. Because you are able to act immediately after the z-drop it may be tempting to throw out that footstool immediately; only you shouldn't. If you footstool them too close to the ground this gives you less time to get the Nair. Resist the temptation, you have plenty of time to get the footstool.

Hell yes. And it's easy as hell to perform, as well! Don't be afraid to call it bomb shining tho lol. Just how much better does it make Link anyways? Guess we'll have to wait until this AT is properly absorbed into Link's metagame. I'm so happy to actually be contributing to Link's meta. It's a dream come true.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Only, it's not called 'bomb shining'. I made a post in this thread a while ago letting you guys know about the tech the Gays have been looking into and I had already called it the Instant Z-drop over there and over here. I'll link you again to the thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/trea...esearch-lab-and-at-list.380910/#post-18102830
This rising z-drop without a Zair already had a name, the Instant Z-drop, and it's not a misleading name like 'bomb shining'. The fact that you can Z-drop the bomb laglessly upon landing was your discovery.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Only, it's not called 'bomb shining'. I made a post in this thread a while ago letting you guys know about the tech the Gays have been looking into and I had already called it the Instant Z-drop over there and over here. I'll link you again to the thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/trea...esearch-lab-and-at-list.380910/#post-18102830
This rising z-drop without a Zair already had a name, the Instant Z-drop, and it's not a misleading name like 'bomb shining'. The fact that you can Z-drop the bomb laglessly upon landing was your discovery.

Ah yes that's right. But then how is the name "bomb shining" misleading?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ah yes that's right. But then how is the name "bomb shining" misleading?

It's going to come down to personal opinion on this one. Ignoring the obvious fact that there is no 'shine' (which unfortunately must remain a valid point when it comes to naming techs), it's just too different imo. It can't pressure shields due to it having no shield-stun. Because of the way that Bombs work, even if it was dropped inside a hurtbox in one frame, it wouldn't actually explode until the next frame. Instead of using the move on the ground then jumping, you need to jump then use the move which slows it down slightly further. Using it any more than once in a row in a short time is impossible except in one scenario; the opponent shields a landing z-drop (it must be the perfect kind) and you immediately catch it with neutral A, then you immediately jump and z-drop on the way back up; but this is laughably slower than doing a double shine and leaves you completely vulnerable unlike the double shine. The lack of range is kind of a big deal too in terms of potential uses. Then it just comes down to personal preference in terms of naming AT's. I prefer using short and simple self-explanatory names that tell you what it is and to some extent how to do it wherever possible.

 

[Darklink401]

I guess this is the place to put this?

It's probably been discussed but in sudden death (AKA only practical use in FG and friendlies) Link can almost infinitely stall off-stage with bomb jump, as the bomb sends him high enough that he can pull out another one and up B, then have it explode and still be around the same height. There will come a % (around 380%) where he will start rising higher and higher due to the bombs, rather than falling lower each time, but at that point, you just gotta start pulling out the bomb a bit later =P

 

[Elessar]

I guess this is the place to put this?

It's probably been discussed but in sudden death (AKA only practical use in FG and friendlies) Link can almost infinitely stall off-stage with bomb jump, as the bomb sends him high enough that he can pull out another one and up B, then have it explode and still be around the same height. There will come a % (around 380%) where he will start rising higher and higher due to the bombs, rather than falling lower each time, but at that point, you just gotta start pulling out the bomb a bit later =P

While this is the right thread to put it, per se, we tend to focus more on competitive meta rather than FG or casual meta. That being said, this strategy would probably still not be that useful/ensure a win since after some seconds bombs start dropping which may will you. That and the other chat can just go after you and kill you with an aerial or spam a projectile which at 300% dmg will kill you.

 

[Darklink401]

While this is the right thread to put it, per se, we tend to focus more on competitive meta rather than FG or casual meta. That being said, this strategy would probably still not be that useful/ensure a win since after some seconds bombs start dropping which may will you. That and the other chat can just go after you and kill you with an aerial or spam a projectile which at 300% dmg will kill you.

The bombs only drop on stage though, this happens offstage.

And while its true the other character can go after you, not every character HAS that ability, as well as, they have to be aware that bombs WILL start dropping, and they can't just focus on you, because they're trapped between falling bombs, or the air, which you'll be flying in xD

It's not nearly as OP as the doubles Pacman glitch, it can certainly be a powerful stalling tool for sudden death.

 

[Rizen]

I tested and Link can't start to stay offstage from bombs and upB until 280%, which is higher than he can expect to survive. If you want to be a troll and waste time vs someone with a bad recovery like Little Mac, jumping offstage>bomb pull>double jump>upB (be sure to face away from the stage since bombs launch Link backward) >bomb explodes>upB>Ledge grab only gives Link 5% damage and works at 50%+ if you do it right.
I think Link has good potential for scrooging and sharking on stages with pass-through floors like Delfino with bombs. He could time-out opponents.

 

[Darklink401]

I tested and Link can't start to stay offstage from bombs and upB until 280%, which is higher than he can expect to survive. If you want to be a troll and waste time vs someone with a bad recovery like Little Mac, jumping offstage>bomb pull>double jump>upB (be sure to face away from the stage since bombs launch Link backward) >bomb explodes>upB>Ledge grab only gives Link 5% damage and works at 50%+ if you do it right.
I think Link has good potential for scrooging and sharking on stages with pass-through floors like Delfino with bombs. He could time-out opponents.

Which is why it only realistically works in sudden death, haha xD

Might be earlier with custom up B that sends him higher, but still not realistic.

Tho with the big bombs + vertical up B, it can be done as early as 150-160%, which is completely realistic for Link, who is a pretty heavy character.

 

[Elessar]

But that sort of stalling would be banned, just like planking got banned eventually. One thing is to time out while till being reachable, but to become inaccessible is breaking the game. Competitively, which was my point, it's not viable.

 

[Darklink401]

But that sort of stalling would be banned, just like planking got banned eventually. One thing is to time out while till being reachable, but to become inaccessible is breaking the game. Competitively, which was my point, it's not viable.

Depends. I mean, planking is invincible, and completely safe. This harms you, can kill you, and only works at certain percents. Wouldn't even help in a time-out situation, unless you're a stock ahead XP

I do plan to try it in friendlies and maybe even FG if I reach sudden death (with the regular bombs, not customs) but I would like to see this at Evo, I'd be cracking up.

 

[Sabaca]

You are actually accessible except for certain charakters like littlemac , when stalling with giant bombs + whirling spin attack.
Though this set isn't part of the current CustomMoveProject and is very situational and is something i don't want to see in a tournament match. Also it would get banned as Ellessar said. So all in all it is pointless and @ Darklink401 as mentioned above it is impossible to see it at EVO.

 

[Darklink401]

You are actually accessible except for certain charakters like littlemac , when stalling with giant bombs + whirling spin attack.
Though this set isn't part of the current CustomMoveProject and is very situational and is something i don't want to see in a tournament match. Also it would get banned as Ellessar said. So all in all it is pointless and @ Darklink401 as mentioned above it is impossible to see it at EVO.

It'd be hilarious, but really boring XP I definitely plan to mess around with it during friendlies and stuff from time to time, or mabe FG if the match does happen to go into sudden death, but it's kinda...yeah o3o

On a side note, I'm loving the bombshines (or whatever they're called). dropping a bomb on a shield (if they shield the bomb that would explode immediately) will make it bounce, and you can just hop up and nair to hit the shield and get the bomb, then drop it immediately and nair again. If you triple jab as soon as you land after the nair, you can break the opponent's shield. Also has a lot of possible variations, and is overall really safe, in my eyes xD

 

[Elessar]

It'd be hilarious, but really boring XP I definitely plan to mess around with it during friendlies and stuff from time to time, or mabe FG if the match does happen to go into sudden death, but it's kinda...yeah o3o

On a side note, I'm loving the bombshines (or whatever they're called). dropping a bomb on a shield (if they shield the bomb that would explode immediately) will make it bounce, and you can just hop up and nair to hit the shield and get the bomb, then drop it immediately and nair again. If you triple jab as soon as you land after the nair, you can break the opponent's shield. Also has a lot of possible variations, and is overall really safe, in my eyes xD

Are you sure it would break the shield? Because I seriously disbelieve that and don't think it possible (redundancy just to drive home how much I don't think that can happen). I mean, a fully charged fsmash cannot break a shield, but a nair, a bomb, and 3 jabs would? There is just no way.

 

[Darklink401]

Are you sure it would break the shield? Because I seriously disbelieve that and don't think it possible (redundancy just to drive home how much I don't think that can happen). I mean, a fully charged fsmash cannot break a shield, but a nair, a bomb, and 3 jabs would? There is just no way.

I broke DK's shield multiple times with some variations. The bomb drop to jump + nair (to grab the bomb midair), then drop again and nair as you fall to grab the bomb again, and then either ftilt or jab thrice. I even did it with bomb drop into nair (picked up bomb again), into sh zair (dropped bomb) and jabbed thrice, that broke it too. Most of the time it will either poke their shield with nair, or break it, if you hit it right.

Nair does silly amounts of shield damage. They can release shield, but they get hit by the bomb, and nair has barely any landing lag so even if they spotdodge or roll, there's not much they can do.

 

[Sabaca]

Someone said to condition them into shielding with nairs etc. in order to use CQC z-drops.
You can't nair while holding a bomb , so a player that actually uses his head , won't be conditioned into shield this way when you jump at him with a bomb. Tho you can Condition him by jumping and throwing the bomb down. If you hit then you get an aerial followup or nairlock , if they start shielding it then you you stay pretty safe. So nexttime you can jump without throwing the bomb down and fastfall into landing instant z-drop and do the shieldpressur that was mentioned (if it is possible). Even if it doesn't (what i believe , though it has to be tested, whether it is an gimmick or an actual strategy) you can do a grab instead. (pretty much a tomahawk with bomb in hand )
I'll definitely try to use that.

EDIT: I want to add , that everyone should know using tomahawk is an established strategy , especially for charakters like Sheik that can safely pressure by jumping infont of the opponent because they have an attack like fair , that is really fast and is an combo setup. I feel like Link might have a similar kind of pressure when holding a bomb. He definitely isn't as safe as Sheik but BombSetUps are stronger than fair SetUps and he can always zdrop in order to make the opponent get hit too if he isn't able to completely stop him.

EDIT2: I just discovered that weakhit dair locks too at early %. Except being able to combo dair into itself you can also lock with it due to it having low knockback compared to earlier games. Not really usefull tho , because it locks Mario up to 5%. So except your very first hit is an direct bomb that leads into a footstool , you will never be able to use that.

 

[Dumbfire]

I broke DK's shield multiple times with some variations. The bomb drop to jump + nair (to grab the bomb midair)

Can't they just shieldgrab this Nair? That's what happens to me. They can throw you and if you are really unlucky the bomb will then explode on you.

 

[link7]

Link's have known about the bomb to footstool to sourspot Nair Lock since Brawl. They've also known that it is in smash 4 but I'm pretty sure it's more difficult now as there is less time to get the Nair. As for chaining them together, I disproved this a while ago. If the opponent holds shield they will avoid the next bomb throw unless you throw the bomb instantly which doesn't give you enough time to jump...

Oh wait. I just had a brilliant idea.

Omg it works! Ok, so you know how I just said that there wasn't enough time? Well gee, if only there was a way to jump and activate the bomb immediately. Only, there is. It's called the instant z-drop, i.e. z-dropping the bomb as you jump which lets you z-drop the bomb without zair and essentially makes the bomb active on the first frame as opposed to having to wait for the whole throwing animation.

Maybe the 3DS has limitations to when it can be done. I've been able to do the drop without bringing out Zair a couple of times, but not consistently. Any tips?
Edit: Never mind, I think I've figured it out. You should make a note that if you want to do the rising zairless drop, you release the bomb just as you jump AND you release the Zair button.

 

[Darklink401]

Can't they just shieldgrab this Nair? That's what happens to me. They can throw you and if you are really unlucky the bomb will then explode on you.

They can't shieldgrab your nair, because if they try, they get hit by the bomb you just dropped.

 

[Elessar]

They can't shieldgrab your nair, because if they try, they get hit by the bomb you just dropped.

Maybe I really need to lab this or see it in action, because I share @ Dumbfire 's notion that you can get shield grabbed. I mean, if you did a rising cqc zdrop you need to be really close to your opponent and that's risky. I mean, the setup is really hard to obtain I believe. And if you do a landing cqc zdrop then it's after the nair which means that you'll get grabbed before you can drop the bomb.

At least that's how I understand it.

 

[Darklink401]

Maybe I really need to lab this or see it in action, because I share @ Dumbfire 's notion that you can get shield grabbed. I mean, if you did a rising cqc zdrop you need to be really close to your opponent and that's risky. I mean, the setup is really hard to obtain I believe. And if you do a landing cqc zdrop then it's after the nair which means that you'll get grabbed before you can drop the bomb.

At least that's how I understand it.

I'll get a video up tomorrow =3

Tho to clarify, the nair is done while rising, so its animation ends by the time you're above the opponent, leaving you time to dro the bomb and fall down with another nair, then the rest is just doing a final attack to destroy the sheik, if the second nair didn't poke it (which is often will)

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Maybe the 3DS has limitations to when it can be done. I've been able to do the drop without bringing out Zair a couple of times, but not consistently. Any tips?
Edit: Never mind, I think I've figured it out. You should make a note that if you want to do the rising zairless drop, you release the bomb just as you jump AND you release the Zair button.

I don't know if it's different for the 3ds, but on the wii-u version it's perfectly possible to do Instant Z-drops by holding the grab button. Could I get confirmation on this? I don't have a 3ds.

 

[link7]

I don't know if it's different for the 3ds, but on the wii-u version it's perfectly possible to do Instant Z-drops by holding the grab button. Could I get confirmation on this? I don't have a 3ds.

Okay, I retested it, and yea, you can still do it by holding down the grab button. The window to do the trick is stupid precise on it though. Maybe it's easier on the Wii U. I'll be getting the game very soon, so I'll compare them.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

No there's probably no difference for the wii-u. It's just difficult in general. There are people that do it consistently and surprisingly quite a few Toon mains that even do IZACs consistently in tournament, and they are significantly more difficult still on top of the difficulty with getting the timing for the Instant Z-drop part. It's just one of those things. The only way to get better is to learn the timing and get it ingrained in your muscle memory.

Edit: It's possible that you've also been trying to do aerials after the z-drop, and if that's the case, make sure you let go of the grab button first otherwise you'll get a Zair and possibly think that you messed up the timing when in fact you didn't.

 

[Sabaca]

Link can cancel the landing lag of shorthop airdodges and full hop fairs with his special moves and item tosses. He can also z-drop when landing with fullhop fair, but you will still suffer from lag. (wasn't able to perform a landing instant zdrop out of fullhop fair)
I don't know why excactly it is that way.
I am sorry if this was already known and mentioned , didn't find it.

It'd be great if we could come up with applications(shorthop airdodge in and upb or behind and bomthrow?) and find an technical explanation for this(Airdodge has IASA frames , and other Chars can cancel the lag completely because of it. Does Fair also have IASA frames ? But why can i only cancel the landing lag with specials/itemtoss?)

 

[Darklink401]

Link can cancel the landing lag of shorthop airdodges and full hop fairs with his special moves and item tosses. He can also z-drop when landing with fullhop fair, but you will still suffer from lag. (wasn't able to perform a landing instant zdrop out of fullhop fair)
I don't know why excactly it is that way.
I am sorry if this was already known and mentioned , didn't find it.

It'd be great if we could come up with applications(shorthop airdodge in and upb or behind and bomthrow?) and find an technical explanation for this(Airdodge has IASA frames , and other Chars can cancel the lag completely because of it. Does Fair also have IASA frames ? But why can i only cancel the landing lag into specials/itemtoss?)

Can you cancel the lag with nair?

 

[Sabaca]

only cancel the landing lag with specials/itemtoss

 

[Darklink401]

I think the fastest way to cancel it is by catching the boomerang.

 

[Dumbfire]

Link can cancel the landing lag of shorthop airdodges and full hop fairs with his special moves and item tosses. He can also z-drop when landing with fullhop fair, but you will still suffer from lag. (wasn't able to perform a landing instant zdrop out of fullhop fair)
I don't know why excactly it is that way.
I am sorry if this was already known and mentioned , didn't find it.

It'd be great if we could come up with applications(shorthop airdodge in and upb or behind and bomthrow?) and find an technical explanation for this(Airdodge has IASA frames , and other Chars can cancel the lag completely because of it. Does Fair also have IASA frames ? But why can i only cancel the landing lag with specials/itemtoss?)

This is known, all characters can cancel airdogde lag with specials. It's especially useful for characters like Bowser (airdogde into surprise Klaw or Fortress). We can't get too much out of it -- I pull out an airdgode into Up b sometimes but doing that more than once is suicide. Sometimes it can grant you a boomerang into someone's face too, which will link into Fair -- that's useful too.

 

[Sabaca]

This is known, all characters can cancel airdogde lag with specials.

Excactly, as i (kinda) mentioned myself, but what about the fair?

 

[Rizen]

This was a tactic in SSBB but I haven't seen it mentioned for SSB4 yet. Link's grab always ground grab releases because how he holds the opponent unless it's over an edge or they mash jump and break away during a pummel. Link should be able to grab release>jab (or Dsmash) characters with slow ground frame data. They could still dodge, shield or air release so it's not guaranteed but will probably work or lead to a jab cancel grab or roll chase. Jab1>Utilt punishes if the opponent rolls behind Link.
Ganon and Palutena for example have very slow jabs.

Edit, this works pretty well on most characters since Link's jab has good reach, better than most faster jabs, and the grab release distance is barely covered by it. Only characters with fast, long reaching jabs or tilts can hit Link before he can jab. It doesn't work off ledges.
Keep in mind this is a mindgame and not guaranteed but considering Link's poor throw game and it works at any %, grab release>jab>cancel to read is a decent option from a grab.

 

[Elessar]

This was a tactic in SSBB but I haven't seen it mentioned for SSB4 yet. Link's grab always ground grab releases because how he holds the opponent unless it's over an edge or they mash jump and break away during a pummel. Link should be able to grab release>jab (or Dsmash) characters with slow ground frame data. They could still dodge, shield or air release so it's not guaranteed but will probably work or lead to a jab cancel grab or roll chase. Jab1>Utilt punishes if the opponent rolls behind Link.
Ganon and Palutena for example have very slow jabs.

Edit, this works pretty well on most characters since Link's jab has good reach, better than most faster jabs, and the grab release distance is barely covered by it. Only characters with fast, long reaching jabs or tilts can hit Link before he can jab. It doesn't work off ledges.
Keep in mind this is a mindgame and not guaranteed but considering Link's poor throw game and it works at any %, grab release>jab>cancel to read is a decent option from a grab.

Actually, you can't follow up a release with anything vs an opponent who knows how to play since the shield will always come up before we're able to react, and grabs have a 3 or 4 second cooldown now as to avoid chain grabs.

 

[Darklink401]

Actually, you can't follow up a release with anything vs an opponent who knows how to play since the shield will always come up before we're able to react, and grabs have a 3 or 4 second cooldown now as to avoid chain grabs.

if they shield immediately, couldn't you jab jab grab? or would the cooldown still be in place? :S

...yeah it probly would be x.x

 

[Elessar]

if they shield immediately, couldn't you jab jab grab? or would the cooldown still be in place? :S

...yeah it probly would be x.x

In my experience, it would. besides, if they shield your jab they can escape before the next one comes out. At least I believe they should be able to.

 

[Rizen]

Actually, you can't follow up a release with anything vs an opponent who knows how to play since the shield will always come up before we're able to react, and grabs have a 3 or 4 second cooldown now as to avoid chain grabs.

That's true and I addressed that but Link has a good jab cancel and the opponent is far enough away that they can't punish the jab by most OoS options. Few characters have long enough jabs to do this so it might catch some people planning to DI a throw off-guard.
Let's say the opponent is at 80% and Link grabs them; any throw only deals 7% and followups would take a hard read. If you pummel (which you can get several in)> grab release>jab, as a mix up, Link's in a good spot to possibly get a jab>Dsmash if the opponent messes up or go for an easier read jab cancel>grab if the keep shielding or jab cancel>Utilt if they roll at Link or dodge chase. I'm not saying it's a great tactic but it's as good as Link's other options from a grab at mid-high %s.

 

[Darklink401]

That's true and I addressed that but Link has a good jab cancel and the opponent is far enough away that they can't punish the jab by most OoS options. Few characters have long enough jabs to do this so it might catch some people planning to DI a throw off-guard.
Let's say the opponent is at 80% and Link grabs them; any throw only deals 7% and followups would take a hard read. If you pummel (which you can get several in)> grab release>jab, as a mix up, Link's in a good spot to possibly get a jab>Dsmash if the opponent messes up or go for an easier read jab cancel>grab if the keep shielding or jab cancel>Utilt if they roll at Link or dodge chase. I'm not saying it's a great tactic but it's as good as Link's other options from a grab at mid-high %s.

Adding to that, if you jab thrice against a shield, from almost max distance, you can jab combo again before they can grab you, or cancelling their grab, if they try to dash in and grab (if they're slow or mid-speed)

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Adding to that, if you jab thrice against a shield, from almost max distance, you can jab combo again before they can grab you, or cancelling their grab, if they try to dash in and grab (if they're slow or mid-speed)

I think there may actually be enough time to react defensively against fast characters in these situation as well. Its not something I've tested but maybe you have.

 

[Xephilon]

Well guys I think I found a new small, simple true combo that can rack up damage pretty quickly but please do not kill me if someone already pointed this out. Its Bair -> Up B. Its a 7-8 hit true combo that deals 22-24% damage but to do it constantly you have to get closer and closer while performing the Bair. I'm currently trying it on 2 characters of each class (Heavy, mid, light). Here are my findings till now:

*Note: This is without DI since I don't have a Wii U or a partner to test out with DI. Sorry. Also, I'm not sure if I put each character in the correct weight class so...yeah...
Heavy:
DK: Can be done up to a maximum of 4 times. At the 5th try, an average player can DI away from Link to avoid Up B. Damage totals to 84-88% damage.
Bowser: Can be done a maximum of 3 times. Bowser falls faster than DK (Correct if im wrong) thus making it hard to perform after 3rd time. Might be DI-able at 3rd time as well. Damage total is around 60%

Both can be done while Link is at 60% or lower damage. Any later and the rage effect will not let you connect them. Combo stops working after heavy surpasses 80% damage.

Mid:
Marth: Can be done 2 times. A 3rd time is possible if Bair connects at the closest range possible. Damage normally totals to around 46%.
Samus: Same as Marth.

Both can be done while Link is at 40% or lower damage on normal distance. At 50% damage, you must be closer than normal. Combo stops working after Mid surpasses around 50% damage.

Light:
Kirby: Too small to do on ground. If Kirby is jumping tho, it can be done twice but it is possible to get out of the Up B the second time around.
Villager: Same as above.

Link cannot exceed 20% damage or else this will fail. I don't recommend doing it to these characters because of their size and how picky the situation has to be.

Link threats (At least, I consider them to be) :
Luigi: Can only be done once unless Bair connects really close. Can be done while Link is at 40% damage but has to be slightly closer than normal. Stops working after Luigi surpasses 40%.
Diddy: Can only be done once. Doing a second time is more risky since there has to be body to body contact in order to work. Maximum rage Link can have is 30%. Stops working after Diddy surpasses 35% damage.

This is a pretty good follow up to bombs and boomerang but have to be pretty close.

Hopefully this is helpful and hasn't been posted yet (since there a lot of posts here,). Also please correct me if im wrong on anything.

Edit: I clicked on the strategy forum and landed me on page 9 and I thought it was the last page but I didnt notice there were more pages. I'm pretty sure now that someone had posted this already and I don't know to delete this so again im sorry if it has been posted x.x"

 

[Rizen]

@ Xephilon are you saying Bair 1st hit>land upB or Bair 1st hit in the air>DI in so 2nd hit misses>aerial upB?