Lets talk. (Ness boards, not Fox)

[Ademisk]

Learn everything and use what works best.

 

[kenny10]

And I still alternate between control stick jumps and x jumps, so does my roomate scotu who plays a rather technical fox. Don't worry about switching to only x/y. Make sure you use them when you learn to short hop and DJC and stuff, though.

Your roommate's Scotu? You must get a lot of practice. Fox players use the control stick to jump sometimes when we're doing an uair. I almost always use the control stick to jump when I'm doing an uair.

Learning advanced techniques isn't really necessary until you get out of noob levels of play. You might be able to keep up if you don't use advanced techniques due to extreme mindgames or something but eventually, your going to get killed if you don't learn advanced techniques. I remember when I would play against my friends who never heard of wavedash before and I would just sit there as Fox and constantly shield grab them. Then they fall for that run up wavedash back feint and gives me a free usmash. Point is, learn advanced techniques. They'll help you in the future.

 

[Levitas]

ironically, they won't help you in two months. But the future between now and february, yeah, they'll help. lol.

And yeah, I get as much practice as I want. He used to use the control stick for everything, when we were both noobs. Now he uses it for random stuff.

 

[Ademisk]

I'm already out of n00b level of play. And I don't have 2 months, I have 1 week. So anything more you guys can think of? Anything at all that might be helpful?

 

[kenny10]

ironically, they won't help you in two months.

I'm most likely going to continue playing melee until things start to pick up for Brawl because right now, it looks way to slow for me. Once things start getting faster, people start discovering things, then I'll start playing Brawl.

Sorry Ademisk. We've already told you a lot of things. Why don't you try practicing them because you always seem to come back 2 weeks later asking the same thing.

 

[Ademisk]

Well I haven't really learned anything from this conversation, so I was asking again to get back on the topic.

 

[arrowhead]

conquer the world by mastering PKT

 

[Levitas]

As we were talking about sheiks before, when you space, space just a little farther away than what makes sense, so that if the sheik decides to tilt you, you'll hit her legs. In the air, that works against her bair too.

I've managed to go a little better than even with the falcos around here by combos and tech chasing. the dash attack helps, but really it's about chasing them around with aerials. Popping them up on platforms with a uair or dair and then bair to tech chase. Also predict jumps out of shield and do a sh fair to punish them, and predict wd's out of shield and wd back with a forward smash to punish that.

That's really what I'm getting out of this past week, but really my Ness is competing on a really even ground with the rest of my crew right now, and that's pretty cool.

 

[Ademisk]

Yeah, chasing with Ness is hella fun, but hard as hell to master. There's just so much people can do. If I could just figure out approach against Falco and Shiek better I think I have a good chance of making it out of pools at this upcoming tournament.

 

[kenny10]

When your against a Falco, they'll try to SHL to approach you like they always do. When your shelding the lasers and they're right up on your face getting ready to dair, jump out of your shield really fast and nair. I use X immediately followed by Z so I don't have to move my finger to the A button. So like in the small gap between the laser and when they jump again to dair. It works surprisingly well actually. Then you can follow their tech for some more damage.

 

[Ademisk]

Yeah I know, and if you trade hits tech immediately and follow up.

 

[thesage]

I don't know what to do against sheik. Her needles force you to approach... and if you try to yyg they'll just throw another needle... Try baiting her f-tilt?

 

[Ademisk]

Bait any of her attacks, and fair into other crap.

 

[Levitas]

WD into shieldgrab because her tilts are gonna hurt. Get her to jump and laugh at her lack of horizontal movement, then hit her with a fair or a bair. If you're behind her, watch for her bair, and kick it instead.

 

[kenny10]

You know I just noticed that these boards always ask the same questions "help against Falco, Sheik, place high-tier character here, etc." and we almost always give the same answer unless we discovered something completely new about 5 minutes ago. Just something I noticed.

BTW, I'm horrible against Sheik. That's why I would play as my Fox against a Sheik. Much easier. My advice, main a high-tier character to handle the characters your Ness can't handle.

 

[Levitas]

lol, that kinda defeats the purpose of playing as Ness competitively, though.

 

[Ademisk]

Yeah, Kenny, you're taking the easy way out. I have no respect for that.


And, new discoveries are made constantly. I find something new every time I play a pro Falco, Sheik, or Marth. Of course, they're all ridiculously hard to explain and involve using the words 'spacing', 'timing', and 'mindgames' like 3 or 4 times each.

 

[thesage]

I think Mario is **** against Ness, but nobody believes me...

 

[Ademisk]

Eggz does. And yes, Marios of his level do really really really well against Ness, but other Marios, not really.

 

[Levitas]

Other marios can still combo Ness, but I really haven't come across one that I couldn't beat immediately. And I've gotten much better since I last payed against a mario, too.

Of course, there aren't any reputable Marios around here.

 

[thesage]

What way are you supposed to DI his uair so you don't get hit again?

 

[Ademisk]

I don't remember....away?

 

[arrowhead]

DI the direction you get hit?

 

[kenny10]

DI up and away so you get knocked away too far and up to get hit by another uair.

 

[Levitas]

So I've been sweetspotting from above with the PKT2 for a little while now, and it never works for me on battlefield. Does it just not work for Ness there? Is there something that I'm missing, because it's an angle that would definately work for other stages.

Also, have any of you sweetspotted from below out of a downward angled PKT2 (shot past the edge downward and then gotten into range of the edge and grabbed it)? It looks really cool.

 

[Ademisk]

Battlefield is wierd. It does work, but not at certain angles. Battlefield is Ness's worst stage for recovery.

EDIT: BATTLEFIELD IS MY NEW FAVORITE STAGE. SAGE, I AM SORRY FOR EVERYTHING I HAVE EVER SAID TO YOU, PK FIRE PLATFORM CANCEL IS THE BEST THING IN ALL OF EXISTENCE. NESS IS GOD TIER!

 

[kenny10]

I don't like Battlefield. I kill myself trying to ledge hop.

Ademisk! Explain your edit right now!

 

[Ademisk]

Platform cancelling PK Fire so there's no lag.

 

[Levitas]

Do a ledge cancelled PK fire to cancel the lag of it. It hits them. Get behind them and do another pk fire. They are now trapped between two pk fires. Then get 1 or 2 bairs in.

That is what he means. He told me so.

 

[Ademisk]

That's one thing. There's others you can do. I'm working PCs and wavelanding into my game right now.

 

[Wave⁂]

Simna + SMYN = win

 

[Ademisk]

Actually it equals SimnaSMYN.

 

[OnYourMark]

Actually, Simna * SMYN = SimnaSMYN

Simna! I'm listening to the podcast right now... :bigthumbu

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol i'd like to suplement the podcast if you dont mind:

And uh...pk fire....yeah....i uh didnt like that at all really... (lol@uh)

but really...pk fire looks a little faster from Lucas, but its still a short range projectile only now there is no pillar of fire to get caught in...which imo was the whole draw and coolness of pk fire (and that you could start it on other things and leave it to be annoying for your opponent)

i have heard tho that there is a bigger emphasis in brawl on elemental damage, so maybe the fact that it deals fire type damage would be good enough on its own since lucas can deal all those other elements too (but i still think its far less cool)

 

[Angrylobster]

I think Mario is **** against Ness, but nobody believes me...

I've played Green Mario many times, and I think i've only ever beat him a single match in tourney (not a set, just 1 match)

I think this might be because hes just better in general, and not the ness vs mario match up specifically

 

[Levitas]

Simna, I hate to disagree with you, but I think that the cut in lag might make it better.

In any event, it was cool to listen to.

 

[Ademisk]

I agree with Simna, **** the lag cut, that can be overcome by multiple techniques. Without a pillar PK Fire drops from best projectile in the game to like...12th worst or something. Somewhere in the middle there.

 

[kenny10]

Wow. I heard Simna's voice on SMYN. It wasn't anything what I was expecting.

BTW, you should have done something like, "And to all the Ness boards..." or something, make me feel special.