Let's talk about items and a fair match

[Anarkex]

While I think the EVO Brawl rules are a little over the top, they bring up the interesting point of maybe items being more balanced than a lot of us originally assumed. Not all of them by a long shot, but I argue that a limited item set could very well be a good thing.

Before you hit me, let me state my case. There's no way to make a perfectly fair match unless both players use the same character on the hypothetical most neutral level possible. Brawl is a different game from Melee, and maybe adding items is going to make it more fair rather than less.

One of the biggest complaints we've had is how the new system makes camping unbeatable. Turtling camping *******s ruin the game and make it boring to watch and annoying to play. As a solution, look not on items spawning near one character or the other, but instead everywhere in between. A camping player has to reason now whether or not he should go for the items spawning across the level or whether he can counter what advantage those items can give the opponent. A lot of items give characters with no projectiles some range, while things like the Franklin Badge can force a player to completely change strategies, or open up unbelievable new options.

While there are isolated situations in which a player could gain a completely unfair advantage, I think they're played up to be a lot more than they're worth. A majority of the time item distribution is pretty even, and even when it's not most items are not a definite win. And with that, I'm putting on my raincoat and entering the ****storm: In this thread, we discuss the possible fairness of a limited item set in Brawl, and just what that limited item set could consist of.

 

[itsameSMB]

You know, since we are talking about item use, there is one question I've wanted to ask that is related to this but never got around to asking: is food an unacceptable item for tournament play?

Anyway, no matter how valid an argument you make here, it will always fall on deaf ears. From what I can tell, no competative player here would dare use items in anything but a friendly match. It doesn't apply to every one of them, but it's the rule, not the exception, unfortunately. What are you gonna do?

 

[Anarkex]

You know, since we are talking about item use, there is one question I've wanted to ask that is related to this but never got around to asking: is food an unacceptable item for tournament play?

Anyway, no matter how valid an argument you make here, it will always fall on deaf ears. From what I can tell, no competative player here would dare use items in anything but a friendly match. It doesn't apply to every one of them, but it's the rule, not the exception, unfortunately. What are you gonna do?

All I know is, we have 100+ posts about Heavy Brawl, how awful the state of the game is, and just general complaints. We have people who want to hack into the game and remove what they don't like. I at least wanted to see some wacky responses and insults before being drowned out by todays "Character you wish Sakurai thought would be neat in Brawl" thread.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Well there have been a hundred threads about items in competitive play too. You can always look back at those for a fun read...or if this doesn't get closed soon, get ready for some fun responses.

 

[Anarkex]

Well there have been a hundred threads about items in competitive play too. You can always look back at those for a fun read...or if this doesn't get closed soon, get ready for some fun responses.

Man, each passing minute I feel less and less awesome. There goes my Sunday night, man.

 

[itsameSMB]

Sorry, I didn't mean to bash you. I totally agree with most of what you said; it's just that my opinion isn't important and most other people, though you make a good point will label you as a scrub for uttering the word items. It's sad, but it's true. If items were a little less random and someone was able to predict how/where items spawn and which item will appear within a reasonable degree of certainty, it would be one thing. Unfortunately, for the time being, nobody has gotten that far. Sorry, but I had the urge to play the devil's advocate tonight.

 

[metaXzero]

I remember when I made this type of thread. Good times...

Their is a fair items project being worked on just to let you know.......

 

[Anarkex]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. The scrub deal's something I've been through, and it really did take me a while to see any merit in tourney play at all, tho I did eventually learn to play Melee with items off on neutral levels. Heck, most of the time I do that in Brawl. I'm just waxing on a little idea here. And as much as it's doom to say so, I've been on /v/. I'm more than used to people playing devil's advocate. I'm only a bit put off that you apologized...but seriously, it's all cool.

Tho, about what you said, I think being able to predict item placement would only make things worse. You'd develop strategies around it, sure, but you'd basically end up with a short list of plans based around the one or two predictable scenarios that could just as easily be divided into little tiers just like everything else. What I'm trying to get across is that a limited item set would produce spontaneity to force players out of what would otherwise be the monotony everyone is complaining about. Maybe the idea demands a dimension to items that doesn't exist, some kind of balance between them all. Just that not every item gives a clear advantage, and there's more than enough ways to fake someone out when they think they have you dead. Brawl is a slower game than Melee and a lot of old options have been removed. I haven't tested it, but maybe the options and mindgames everyone wants can be put in this way. Just a little thought I wanted to build off of and debate without preconceptions, but that probably is asking too much of a lot of people.