let's stop crying and get to it...

[the real silvers]

alright so yeah, bowser isn't amazing. but instead of b!tching about it we should examine what he's good at and get some meta game going?

agreed?

let's continue. i main DK normally and i really like him, so i am gonna compare him negatively to Bowser. we can just ignore the pros of DK for now cos we wanna get better with bowz.


i would say that bowser has a benefit in the fact that he can breathe flames and reach a target further away than a DK attack.

bowser has a great Bdown, which DK lacks. so coming from above with a Bdown is a great way of KOing an opponent below. especially when 4 people are about. added to this, his nair and dair also serve a similar purpose.

just pressing A twice does 2 quick swipes with bowzer, an although he is quite slow in general, this attack is fast and sets you up nicely for UpB which gets him in to his spin. when the spin has been initiated you can move forward spinning and make up ground.

from there you can always use shield/dodge if they attack you. having dodged/shielded, if you are close you can either grab them with a standard grab while their lag from the failed attack hinders them, repeat the AA upB, or one of my favourites... ForwardB, which will grab them and pile drive them.

Bowzer's recovery is pretty good to be honest as a horizontal recovery will take you from one side of the map to the other with relative ease, and while not quite as good as DK's, is better than a lot.

Bowzer's special is one of the best in my opinion, because with charged smashes and downB's you can take out all your opponents with it. this is a massive positive over DK.

Bowser's Fsmash can take a while, although this is pretty similar, if not a little better than king DVDs so it is still very worthwhile, especially if you do connect cos bowz has a lot of power.

YES BOWZ is big and slow and is easy to hit, but they knew that when they made him, therefore they allowed it so that he can take more punishment. it takes a lot more beating to get bowser out then the faster guys in general which means that a few well chosen power moves can destroy someone who is doing loads of quick damage on you with faster but less powerful moves.

Bowser is not the greatest player in the game stats wise, but he is one of the coolest, and that means he deserves to be played well.

 

[S_B]

Sounds good. Now start playing as him regularly and keep an eye out for ATs (something we're all doing).

 

[KevinM]

Bowser's spotdodge is horrific in Brawl.. not Melee spotdodge horrific... but still punishable.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Bowser's spotdodge is horrific in Brawl.. not Melee spotdodge horrific... but still punishable.

Going from Falco where I spot dodge a lot it's hard but with bowser you just have to get used to powershielding everything that you'd rather dodge.


Oh and just to be clear: Bowser has a terrible Bdown, it's horrendous and no it's not good to come down on people from above because it takes so long to start and has so much lag that they dodge it and pummel you.

bowser's tapA is great and can be followed by a ton of stuff, mix up going tapA -> Ftilt
or tapA -> sideB if you think they'll shield rather than just double hitting with the tap.

 

[the real silvers]

nah his bdown is excellent.

 

[smit_ massacre]

No his bdown is easily dodged, predictable and fairly useless unless your opponent is at high %. Nair is generally alot better but Dair can be quite good too.

 

[KevinM]

Nah Smit if you want to come down as Bowser either drop to the side for a F-air or fall as close to the edge and air dodge so not get punished.

 

[the real silvers]

nah is bdown is brilliant

 

[Nitros14]

Bowser Bomb is pretty situational, but I do like to throw them out sometimes when we're both high in the air or when they jump after me, or occasionally on the ground as a surprise. It's not something you can use often by any means but it's something to throw out there once in a while.

For me anyway if I don't use it much it hits surprisingly often when I do use it.

 

[DiasFlac]

Bowser's spotdodge is horrific in Brawl.. not Melee spotdodge horrific... but still punishable.

once you played him enough and you've played against different characters for a while, knowing their moves and how long they last etc.

You start to know what moves you can spotdodge and punish after and what moves you can't.

Most grabs for example are good to spotdodge as Bowser (cept for jig's)

 

[KevinM]

Well I meant in general Dias. I spotdodged with Bowser in Melee but it didn't mean it wasn't terrible.

 

[S_B]

I generally find that any time a player moves in to hit me (not a projectile, mind you), I reflexively use up+B and push away from them instead of spot dodge and it works pretty well.

As for the down+B, I also think it's awesome...so long as you use it to get to a ledge. That way, you get all of the benefit of possibly catching an enemy with it with none of the drawback of sitting there like an idiot waiting to be smashed off the stage. It's actually the safest way to return to the stage from high up if your foe is trying to keep you in the air.

 

[WarriorKnight]

once you played him enough and you've played against different characters for a while, knowing their moves and how long they last etc.

You start to know what moves you can spotdodge and punish after and what moves you can't.

Most grabs for example are good to spotdodge as Bowser (cept for jig's)

Hi guys, its been a long time, Diasflac, your bowser had some good potential before, have you been improving him since our bowser fights a while back? If so, u should fight me once again sometime to see ur bowser progress against my retired legendary bowser lol. Just let me know, i'll go to a friends house and borrow his wii to play u lol. (sold my wii last month)

Avoid spotdodging with bowser, its horrible. An exception would be made for grab happy characters such as dedede or IC's. Rolling backwards is a decent option. Anything that is repeated, becomes very predictable and spotdodging is no exception to this rule.

I occasionally just play 1 or 2 days a month to check out how newer competition stacks up against me.

P.S. I never spotdodged with bowser in melee. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[diddykongsnaners]

I generally find that any time a player moves in to hit me (not a projectile, mind you), I reflexively use up+B and push away from them instead of spot dodge and it works pretty well.

As for the down+B, I also think it's awesome...so long as you use it to get to a ledge. That way, you get all of the benefit of possibly catching an enemy with it with none of the drawback of sitting there like an idiot waiting to be smashed off the stage. It's actually the safest way to return to the stage from high up if your foe is trying to keep you in the air.

diddy with bananas and ic's with decynch. nuf said

 

[gojira345]

I think bowser's down b was meant to counter dash attacks and fsmashes, and break sheilds.

For instance, you blow fire breath at Marth, and he sheilds and escapes. You have high damage, and you know he's coming with either fair or fsmash. Marth comes on the ground right at you, and at the last moment you down b. If he made the mistake of stopping to fair or fsmash, he can only pray his sheild comes up, due to landing lag. If it doesn't, he gets hit, if it does, sheild break.

I think Bowser players should use the grounded version WAY more. The air version just screams "Dodge me!" while the ground version might as well be a counter to most smashes ( they whiff the air and if they have enough lag then BOOM!) Your prediction has to be spot on though....

 

[CyberGlitch]

His down be is only useful to grab edges. It's sorta depressing really. One big addition in Brawl is the modification of many characters Down Airs attacks to make them "rocket" downwards, making them harder to avoid. Characters with this include Young Link, G&W, Zero Suit Samus, Ice Climbers, and Sheik. For most of them the attack comes out instantly, comes down fast with insane priority, and has minimal lag.

Bowser and Yoshi used to be the only ones who could do this type of attack, that was one of their specialties that made them unique, giving that small edge against other characters. Now that "butt stomp" ability is given to everyone and their brother and the two characters who had it originally are left with a vastly inferior "butt stomps," depressing, isn't it?

Bowser's Down B might be bearable if it actually had priority, which it doesn't...which makes absolutely no sense at all..and given the predictability of the move, that means you'll be hit right out of it every time...and you you aren't the horrible landing lag will make sure you are. I'm sorry, the move is just terrible..and the fast that others have much better clones of the move now is just a kick to Bowser's dinosaur sized balls.

Bowser got somewhat screwed. While all the other heavy characters were blessed with super armor in their slow moves (or fast move in Wario's case), Bowser got nothing. IMO, he is the slowest character, as far as attack speed, in Brawl (though Ike could be argued for this position). The lack of SA in any of his moves makes no sense (to me at least).


But with that out, as you've said, lets stop crying and work with what we have.
We have an incredibly powerful character, one with decent edge guarding abilities (mostly because of the power behind his attacks, but also with his useful Up B and his flamethrower).

One with a good recovery move, a fantastic Side B (Bowsersides are actually very useful, and the move prevents opponents from excessive shielding), good tilts, a decent jab combo, and high weight.

Metagame is all about understanding a character's cons. Please don't tell us to pretend Bowser is better than DK (I may be biased because DK is one of my mains). Please don't blindly profess his Down B as an excellent move. Bowser is weak because he is slow and laggy. He has no star studded approach (because of his aerials and slow running attack) and his range, minus his tilts, is abysmal. When in the air he can do little about opponents above him (besides his Up B) because his Up Air is harder to hit with than Zelda's sweat spotted aerials, IMO. On the ground he has more options for opponents above, they aren't fantastic, but they're there.

This basically amounts to the necessity of a defensive Bowser. As a character he doesn't have a lot of options, so he needs to keep all of them open whenever possible. Learn to walk instead of run, to poke instead of stab. Powershield-Powershield-Powershield. You are going to be a slowly moving tank...learn to spot dodge well, to grab when necessary, to shortjump and Forward B, or Forward Air, mix it up. Learn how to lead your opponents into doing laggy attacks. Edgeguard...Bowser can do it effectively for a number of the characters.

These things really should be obvious. Above all else learn Bowser's cons. I think Gimpyfish wrote something about that in itself increasing his metagame significantly.

 

[HotshotScott0007]

bowser is my main character and DK is one of my favourites also i think i tend to favour characters with alot of brute force and sheer strength

bowsers down+b is effective if used in the right situation if used in a 1 on 1 match it is wise not to use it from the air because (as previously mentioned) it can easily be dodged and left open for attack however if u are battling against numerous opponents while they are distracted attacking each other u can get above them and nail em both. When used from the ground it can be used for recovery whilst being pummelled and still serve out some good damage i myself dont use it much but when i do it is quite effective

 

[KevinM]

I like Down-Bing from the ground to the edge as a fast edge hog.

 

[S_B]

I like Down-Bing from the ground to the edge as a fast edge hog.

I, too, like doing this, as well as trying to catch a foe returning from above at an angle while ensuring I grab the ledge so there's no vulnerability.

 

[Bowser King]

One of my favourite things to do to my brother is bowser bomb. He is a snake player and whenever I'm above him he sends out his ^smash. Bowser bomb breaks right through and land flat on snakes head. As for his >special, nair seem to go right through it.