Guide Let's Mega Evolve! Charizard Matchup Archive

[Swamp Sensei]

Hello, everyone! As you might know, the last matchup discussion fizzled out.

SO LET'S MEGA EVOLVE!

From here on out we're going to steal the R.O.B. Match Up discussion thread's format.

No. We're not sorry.



Each week, we will have two threads open for discussing a certain matchup.

All of them will be archived here with a small summary that we will all write together!

So for the first week...

Wave 1:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 2:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 3:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 4:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wave 5:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wave 6:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 7:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 8:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 9:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 10:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 11:

Ganondorf Matchup
Wario Matchup
Samus Matchup

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 12:[/URL]
Kirby Matchup
Robin Matchup
Lucario Matchup

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 13:
Cloud Matchup
Bowser Matchup
Lucas Matchup

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wave 14:
Bayonetta Matchup
Zelda Matchup
Lucina Matchup

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wave 15:
Ryu Matchup
Little Mac Matchup
Mii Brawler Matchup

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wave 16:
Villager Matchup
Duck Hunt Matchup
Link Matchup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Link to the original thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-thread-week3-captain-falcon-donkey-kong.392896/

Thanks to @-LzR- and @ MintyBreeze

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I might need this later.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just a quick notice here.

I'm going to be choosing two characters per week for now.

One will be determined through RNG.

The other I'd like you guys to vote on.

So...

Who do you want to discuss?

 

[Mightyno.M]

I believe we should start off with very prominent characters such as Fox and Shiek since those will most likely be more important than versus Mii Gumner or Meta Knight.

I know generally speaking some things have been established (character x can juggle us for days but we can gimp at 3%) but with updates and more experience we may need to re evaluate and dive deeper in (like some of us had) rather than just say use the flamethrower to gimp this

Nice new topic idea btw

 

[MintyBreeze]

Going to suggest Fox first, mostly since, after the patch, it seems like the Fox boards are about to centralize on a few characters. Charizard is one of them:
http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...duo-pikmin-olimar.393061/page-8#post-19482516

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wanna talk about R.O.B.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I too will suggest , for Larry Lurr got quite far in Top 8 at CEO 2015 with him. That the Fox boards are planning to talk about Zard as well is great timing.

EDIT: I just looked at the Fox board's topic right after making this post, and it turns out they're... not talking about us right now. Whoops. XD; Oh well, my vote for Fox still stands, regardless.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

I wanna talk about Sheik and Rosaluma, since they're the two characters that are considered OP right now.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Maybe we should have a spoiler tag that shows how many times each character has been requested and by whom? That would be helpful. I'd vote for Rosalina next week, then Sheik.

Also, the original match-up thread still exists!
http://smashboards.com/threads/char...eek3-captain-falcon-donkey-kong.392896/page-3
Why not use this for just general match-up discussion while specific ones are being talked about? That way, people would still be able to get help without having to wait for their problem character to get their own thread.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah! Week 2 is up.

This week, the vote went to Fox.

The RNG picked Mega Man.

Who should our next voted character be?

 

[MintyBreeze]

Since we should have a bit of variety in our discussions as well, I recommend that we talk about Rosalina next time. While Sheik would probably be the harder match-up for us, I can see Rosalina being frustrating for a lot of Charizards.
Add that, and Rosalinas seemingly being a bit more rare online, and I think we should focus on her first before Sheik.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Weeeeell... After that, either of the Links would be fine with me.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I suggest we talk about charizard's worst MU

Has anything changed after the patch?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Today popular vote was a tie. For Link/Toon Link and ZSS.

RNG decided it was Toon Link's turn.


Random chance dictates Dedede will be the random choice.


I will put my vote in for Mii Gunner.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

I'm putting a vote in for ZSS. I can contribute to that discussion.

 

[MintyBreeze]

Going to also suggest ZSS, it's a match-up the majority of us can agree on (discussing, anyways) and it was voted on last time anyways.

 

[Steeler]

Voting ZSS, so I can come in and tell everyone to pick a secondary xD

Is it alright to have random matchup chatter here? There is a good Samus in my EVO pool, was wondering if anyone had tips.

 

[Saturn_]

I played a friend's Peach and got dominated. This is a friend I've fought a lot and typically can beat depending on character, but I got dominated by Peach. I felt like either 1.) I must not understand the MU at all or 2.) It's a bad matchup for Zard. I basically felt that, other than sh-fair I had no good options for dealing with really basic float-dair or float-fair combos, and sh-nair was basically useless. Thoughts?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Forgive me for the delay, but here is the next update! :D

The vote favored Zero Suit Samus.

RNG decided that we do .

So I'll make these posts real quick!

Also, you may have noticed but I keep older threads open. I want us to focus on the current ones, but I also don't want to limit discussion if you want to revisit an old character's thread. Eventually we will have threads for all characters. Imagine the final product.

 

[charizardbro]

I played a friend's Peach and got dominated. This is a friend I've fought a lot and typically can beat depending on character, but I got dominated by Peach. I felt like either 1.) I must not understand the MU at all or 2.) It's a bad matchup for Zard. I basically felt that, other than sh-fair I had no good options for dealing with really basic float-dair or float-fair combos, and sh-nair was basically useless. Thoughts?

I know this is the vote thread and not an MU thread but to quickly answer your questions:

I haven't played against any high caliber Peach mains but uair messes with her float stuff very well since Charizard's head is invulnerable. You can also fastfall it out of a full hop. Retreating fair is a lot better for approaching imo. Nair is very low priority so it'll feel useless if you challenge her aerials with it. If she's floating too high to get hit by flamethrower in neutral, its gotta be uair all day long.


Other than that, I vote Ike for the next matchup discussion. I feel like we get combo'd so hard. And Ike takes stocks really well too so no rage cheese.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well. The vote for this week is...

Ike.

RNG picked.... .

Blue Swordsmen! Let's go!

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

was voted on earlier in this thread. I too now want to vote for Mii Gunner, because the advent of Tourney Mode has made them more common (K.K. Slider outfit hype, I presume~), and their 33x2 deck is quite a struggle for us Zards to break through. I'd dare say moreso than DH, because our Dragon Rush is not as good at disrespecting Gunner's arsenal as it is at disrespecting DH's arsenal (DR only really loses to Clays, and owns Cans & Gunmen). Gunner's Side 3 in particular got endlag reduction, making his keepaway more effective, as the Super Missile version flat-out beats DR.

 

[Saturn_]

RNG picked.... .

I actually think Charizard wins this matchup pretty solidly, though my experience is limited. I played against a in bracket and lost, switched to and won. EVERYTHING you do completely outspaces MK, who is already a spacing character. Dtilt just does so much gd work in this matchup, and because MK wants to get under you and juggle you straight up, he's very vulnerable to Rock Smash in a way left-to-right characters (like ) are not; and because MK's reach is so short, he's very likely to eat the full 30% when you use it while grounded. MK is very light and the same stages he likes are the same stages where he dies at 60% to upthrow. Flare Blitz is also an incredible now-I-win maneuver against a very aggressive Meta Knight. SH-nair, already one of Zard's best tools in neutral, shuts down most of MK's approaches, and he while he still has great edgeguarding tools against you, your three jumps and super armor make it harder for him to gimp you. Your defensive strengths cover his offensive strengths extremely well. I don't have a strong opinion on the exact split but I guess I'd call it 60-40 in Zard's favor.

 

[ShadowKing]

Against has a real good matchup with his huge buff's he can kill earlier.Kill range is around 50-80 becuase is a light character

Against has is a decent matchup because is slow with his attacks and out speeds him.kill range against is around 90-110(if lucky)

 

[charizardbro]

@ ShadowKing You should look at the discussion threads for those MUs. I really don't think either of them favor Zard.

Voting for Luigi for the next discussion though. We are such combo food in that MU.

 

[ShadowKing]

@ C charizardbro I've fought this matchup thousands of times at local tournaments and won and your telling me I'm wrong sir I think you're wrong

 

[Saturn_]

Now that customs are off I think the matchup between and has changed dramatically and that's my vote for discussion next.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Charizards out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Charizard. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Charizard match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/414441/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

I tried a little experiment.

I made the "week" last longer and I think good things happened. We got more discussion in the Ike and Meta Knight threads than I thought!

Thing is... after that... I procrastinated. So my bad there.

But I do feel longer "weeks" will create more discussion so I'm going to try and have each thing a week and a half from now on.

Either way.

Votes was a tie between Mii Gunner and Palutena. Mii Gunner won the RNG tiebreaker.

RNG chose Bowser Jr.

Lots of projectiles.

 

[AlphaOmega2000]

Hey guys I'm a Charizard main(Of course)and thought I should help

 

[Jmacz]

I'd like to put in my vote for the MU. I was having some trouble with a friend of mines Mario all of the sudden, and on a whim tried Charizard and starting winning easily. It's tough for him to take a game from me anywhere but FD now, I even managed a 3 stock on him today and that never happens. Maybe it's just me but if this is in fact a good MU for Charizard with these new buffs that would be really interesting seeing as how many Mario's there are.

 

[RadianB]

Yeah Charizard does well against Mario simply because Charizard outranges him. Also Mario's Down Throw to Up Tilt chain doesn't work on Charizard because he can fly out of it.

 

[Jmacz]

Yeah Charizard does well against Mario simply because Charizard outranges him. Also Mario's Down Throw to Up Tilt chain doesn't work on Charizard because he can fly out of it.

We can also Rock Smash them after the first one, but once they get used to that the Mario can roll behind you and continue up-tilting you. You can B-Reverse the Rock Smash for that, but it's also avoidable if they see it coming.

 

[RadianB]

We can also Rock Smash them after the first one, but once they get used to that the Mario can roll behind you and continue up-tilting you. You can B-Reverse the Rock Smash for that, but it's also avoidable if they see it coming.

Charizard can also jump out of it after the first Up Tilt by DI'ing up and away from Mario. Probably due to him being a floaty character.

 

[Jmacz]

Charizard can also jump out of it after the first Up Tilt by DI'ing up and away from Mario. Probably due to him being a floaty character.

Does doing this allow Mario to punish our jump with U-air? Or do we have time to air doge or nair?

 

[RadianB]

Does doing this allow Mario to punish our jump with U-air? Or do we have time to air doge or nair?

No there's enough time to avoid any follow ups Mario will try.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well uh...

This is embarassing.

BUT WHO CARES LET'S GO!

Vote was for Mario.

RNG picked...

Luigi.


Well that's convenient.

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

Luigi? Wow that sounds like an AMAZING matchup for Charizard!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I vote for Samus. Cuz why not?

 

[Zard lover Doom Desire]

We're voting again already? Hm...I would like to talk about Samus too...but I don't see any good ones...

I'd also be alright with discussing the Diddy Dong matchup. I might learn a few things on how to beat the cheeky scrub...that is assuming any other Zards can actually fight him...