• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Let's just take a moment here to acknowledge the good Sonic games

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
With the release of genuinely good games like Colors or Generations it looks like people were finally done giving Sonic flack. Unfortunately, with the advent of the genuinely bad Sonic Boom it looks like people are boarding the "LAWL SANIC SUX" train again while ignoring the good games he was in.

So, that being said let's do as the thread title says and discuss and acknowledge the Sonic games that we've enjoyed over the last few years, or even beyond that.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
2423-5382-7542
Everything between like SA2B and colors = dark ages
I liked SA2B, DX, S3&K, Sonic Battle and a lot of others. I'm beyond salty with the removal of chao gardens tho. At this point, they should get their own game.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
I'm beyond salty with the removal of chao gardens tho. At this point, they should get their own game.
Maybe it's because I grew up with real dogs, but I never really got into the pet raising aspect of the chao garden. That being said, the RPG-esque stat building did have me hooked for a while. I'm surprised SEGA didn't even bring that back for Generations. Especially because it's one of the few things from the Adventure games that's near universally liked.

I'd like to vouch for the Sonic Advance series as being highly underrated and being Sonic's saving grace during the decline of his 3D games. I hear the Rush series is really good too but I haven't gotten a chance to play them.
 
Last edited:

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
2423-5382-7542
I had dogs and cats, and I still fell in love with it .-.
SEGA... I don't think their known for smart choices.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Heroes would have been great if they spent time to iron out the bugs and optimize it, but neither happened. Shadow the Hedgehog isn't as bad as people say it is (but it's still not great), but 06 was a nightmare. I personally didn't like any of the Secret of the 7 Rings series, but Advance and Dash (both great game series) were still keeping the series afloat on the handhelds. Colors and Generations came out, restoring the sonic name, and those are the last Sonic games I have. In my opinion mostly every Sonic game between 1 and A2B was good, too, except for Sonic R, Labyrinth, and Fighters.
 

Kenith

Overkill Sarcasm
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
24,014
Location
The Fabulous Friendly Super Sparkle Train
NNID
RipoffmanXKTG
3DS FC
4210-4224-9442
I have every main series Sonic game except Lost World and Boom.
I have both of the Collection games, Gems and Mega, and they are really fun. Playing Sonic with a GCN controller is like heavy for me.

Even as someone who loves Shadow the Hedgehog despite its flaws, I cannot stand Sonic 06. It was boring and unplayable for me.

Also, not to say it's a bad game, but I'm not a fan of Sonic 3 either.
Sonic 2 is my favorite 2d Sonic game, Colors my favorite 3d one.
 
Last edited:

Claire Diviner

President
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
7,477
Location
Indian Orchard, MA
NNID
ClaireDiviner
People often forget how great Sonic CD was back in the day.

As for Sonic Boom, I knew that game was dead before it was even released; they tried way too hard to badassify the characters' appearance, it was not a surprise they'd forget about the gameplay and game design as a result on that one focus.
 

sonicgx101

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
19
Location
Louisiana
NNID
sonicgx101
3DS FC
1263-8019-2008
I'd like to vouch for the Sonic Advance series as being highly underrated and being Sonic's saving grace during the decline of his 3D games. I hear the Rush series is really good too but I haven't gotten a chance to play them.
I have Sonic Rush Adventure and it is a very good game
I don't have Sonic Rush but I hear it's a good game as well
The Sonic Rush series is like Sonic Advance but it gives you...well more of a rush

I hope Sega makes another handheld exclusive Sonic series for 3ds
 

Heroine of Winds

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
645
Location
United States
I hate how the good Sonic games get overlooked nowadays while the bad ones tend to get the most attention due to so much negativity. Especially Colors & Generations. Sure the stories suck, but at least the gameplay is good compared to the gameplay from Rise of Lyric. Sadly, the bad Sonic games give a bad stigma for the series & will forever be a laughingstock amongst the gaming community.
 

Claire Diviner

President
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
7,477
Location
Indian Orchard, MA
NNID
ClaireDiviner
At this point, Nintendo should either buy Sonic off of Sega, or just buy Sega itself. I'm sure they'll make a Sonic game that will be a love letter to every Sonic fan waiting for that one game that marks Sonic's undeniably triumphant return.
 

MushroomManiac

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
39
Location
Pipe Maze
NNID
AndresGP
3DS FC
4425-1475-8736
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was pretty much the blue blur's peak imo. After that he seemed to have a lot of trouble transitioning to the 3D world (However Sonic Adventure is pretty fun, but it has definitely shown its age over time in terms of gameplay and graphics).
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
10,513
Location
Corona, CA
For me, Sonic Boom doesn't really count towards the Sonic Cycle. I didn't expect much of anything either.

I'm more of a 2D Sonic person, so I love the Genesis titles and the Sonic Advance games. Advance was a good blend of the old and new style for me, while 1 and 3 had some fun platforming here and there. Adventure games are mixed, but on a positive note I have some nostalgia for them. The Sonic stages were great, and there are some really neat shortcuts and details from the Dreamcast games.

Most of Unleashed is great. And I need to pick up Colors and Generations.
 

OnettGirl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
114
Location
Avondale, Arizona
NNID
Antagonistgreen
3DS FC
4742-5570-4170
I prefer SA1 and SA2. I wasn't too big on the boost formula and I've never liked 2D platformers so that was over half of generations that I really didn't care for. SA1 and SA2 is where the series peaked for me, and coincidentally SA2 was my first sonic game...don't know if that's a bad sign. Though I did also enjoy Heroes, and aside from the dumb story I didn't mind Shadow, oddly enough the gunplay in that game was probably the best thing about it. I also really don't mind 06 considering how bad and utterly broken it is design wise. Then again that's probably because I played it years after it came out and I went in with already dirt low expectations that it managed to somehow exceed my expectations in one or two instances. I like playing it because it's bad.

I don't get all the hate for Boom. I played it, it was average. If I were 10 years old I would have loved the heck out of that game. I had fun on my first playthrough but after that i'll probably never go back to it. But it's NOT 06 levels of bad as people like to say and anyone who honestly thinks that has either never played the game or is grossly overreacting. It's an average game that most younger kids will probably like and that's it. it's meh.
 

Zink Imp

Smash Ace
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
767
Location
Manhattan, NYC
People say that Generations was good, but I think it's another mess of a game.
Maybe it's because I don't have nostalgia goggles on.
 

OnettGirl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
114
Location
Avondale, Arizona
NNID
Antagonistgreen
3DS FC
4742-5570-4170
It's a bug-laced mess and feels unfinished and most definitely unpolished. But what do I know?
The only bug I ran into in my run is one that a lot of people sound like they've had where Tails falls off the 2D plane while climbing the sentinel robot thing in the beginning. But even then I snapped back into place after a little while. I've only heard of people having problems with one of the hydrodash sections but I didn't run into that one. Most of the other glitches or exploits i've found you have to either try to do or search for [heck I don't even know how to do the knuckles infinite jump glitch thing.]

But I will agree that it feels unpolished and I can tell there was a lot of content cut. Really makes me curious as to what happened at BRB. It could have been a lot better but right now it's just average [though I think some could argue being average is worse than being bad].
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
For me, Sonic Boom doesn't really count towards the Sonic Cycle. I didn't expect much of anything either.
As far as I know SEGA never intended it to be part of the main series anyway. So I guess there's that.

Adventure games are mixed, but on a positive note I have some nostalgia for them. The Sonic stages were great, and there are some really neat shortcuts and details from the Dreamcast games.
I feel like, even though both SA1 and SA2 were huge parts of my childhood, they really don't hold up all that well today. At least, SA1 doesn't. TBH I genuinely prefer SA1 and 2's platforming over the boost oriented game play of the more recent games. Although I really liked Lost World in part that it felt closer to SA1 and 2 than it did to Colors and Generations. Both of which are still good, I just prefer the Dreamcast games' game play a bit more. Although that might just be nostalgia.

At this point, Nintendo should either buy Sonic off of Sega, or just buy Sega itself. I'm sure they'll make a Sonic game that will be a love letter to every Sonic fan waiting for that one game that marks Sonic's undeniably triumphant return.
I wouldn't mind Nintendo buying SEGA if only on the off chance that we'd actually see them do something with their older franchises. Maybe we'd actually get Jet Set Radio 3 or Phantasy Star V.

EDIT: Nintendo would also get exclusive Atlus and Platinum games, which would be pretty awesome.
 
Last edited:

Claire Diviner

President
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
7,477
Location
Indian Orchard, MA
NNID
ClaireDiviner
though I think some could argue being average is worse than being bad.
Depends on the game and franchise. A franchise, like Sonic, has been the butt of many a joke this past decade or so for pumping out laughable games. Then they release decent games, like Generations, Colors, and Lost World. Those games were slowly bringing people's attention to the series, even if they looked on with skeptical eyes, but the result was still positive nonetheless.

Now let's say Sonic Boom was actually just average, it wouldn't necessarily hurt it more than it will make people say "meh, it's not bad" and hope for the next Sonic title to be better. In this case, because the game was bad, it brought the series in the eyes of the public back to square one, and now they have to work their a**es off to try and make people take the franchise seriously.

I wouldn't mind Nintendo buying SEGA if only on the off chance that we'd actually see them do something with their older franchises. Maybe we'd actually get Jet Set Radio 3 or Phantasy Star V.

EDIT: Nintendo would also get exclusive Atlus and Platinum games, which would be pretty awesome.
I nearly had an orgasm at the very thought of those ideas.
 
Last edited:

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was pretty much the blue blur's peak imo. After that he seemed to have a lot of trouble transitioning to the 3D world (However Sonic Adventure is pretty fun, but it has definitely shown its age over time in terms of gameplay and graphics).
At least the Adventure series is flawed but enjoyable. It feels like SEGA just didn't know what to do with the series after SA2. Starting with Heroes they decided to bring back a lot of elements from the Genesis games and then with '06 it felt like they were desperately trying to recapture what made the Dreamcast games work, despite their flaws.

By the time they got to Unleashed they ended up throwing so much out the window in an attempt to start fresh. IMO they finally got back on track with Colors, as every game after that one actually feels like it's moving forward with the series.
 

Heroine of Winds

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
645
Location
United States
At this point, Nintendo should either buy Sonic off of Sega, or just buy Sega itself. I'm sure they'll make a Sonic game that will be a love letter to every Sonic fan waiting for that one game that marks Sonic's undeniably triumphant return.
If they did the former, I don't think they'll know what to do with Sonic either. I'd rather have the latter happen. Sammy's been messing up Sega since 2004. I want good Sonic games again.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
If they did the former, I don't think they'll know what to do with Sonic either. I'd rather have the latter happen. Sammy's been messing up Sega since 2004. I want good Sonic games again.
SEGA's always had a history of making poor decisions, which is why they don't make consoles these days. I really don't think the Sammy buyout had much to do with the quality of their games or any other business choices. Although I'd argue that SEGA was at its peak during the Moore era, or 1999-2003.
 

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
Despite Lost World and Boom being terrible, I feel the Cycle isn't exactly back.

I mean the Cycle was pretty specific with how it goes. New Game Announced, Fans are Hyped -> Friends are shown, Hope is Lost -> Game is out and is terrible, fans proclaim they won't be fooled again.

Lost World was half decentish (before becoming crap) and didn't follow the tropes of the usual bad Sonic games. It had some hype and it ended up being disappointing, but that's about it.

Sonic Boom, we all saw it coming and knew it was gonna suck.


Also, SEGA needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel. They FINALLY got Sonic to have a much better reputation with their new formula for the games, but only to abandon it with Lost World aka "we don't know what this game is suppose to be!".

But yeah, on the subject of the good games.

I really enjoyed the following (games released after the Dreamcast):
Sonic Advance (I didn't like the 2 follow ups. 2 was terrible and full of bad design while I'm feeling mixed about 3)
Sonic Rush Adventure (I hated the original Rush for the sames I hated 2 + bad boss design, but this fixed nearly every complaint)
Sonic Colors Wii/DS (All great all around, DS was short but sweet)
Sonic Generations (Console/PC only; 3DS was lazy and soulless)
Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed is also awesome, I loved it. I have yet to play its original title though, but I heard it's better.

As far as ports goes, Sonic CD, 1 and 2 were all great ports. 2 felt a bit iffy at launch due to the bugs and oddities with the physics, but many of that got fixed. Shame Sega is actually denying future remakes of Sonic 3 and Knuckles. :/


People say that Generations was good, but I think it's another mess of a game.
Maybe it's because I don't have nostalgia goggles on.
That is not true. I actually genuinely liked Sonic Generations because it was very fun. Sonic 4 banked on nostalgia but ended up being absolutely terrible, and the 3DS version of Generations was really lazy and not well designed. Generations had flaws, but it didn't take away too much from the game. Final boss was definitely god awful though, what were they thinking?
 
Last edited:

MajinBuu272

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
243
Location
Paris, Tennessee
NNID
KidBuu9000
Switch FC
SW-5273-4956-4209
i loved sonic generations and sonic heroes, but i never cared for sonic adventure series.... -.-
 

OnettGirl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
114
Location
Avondale, Arizona
NNID
Antagonistgreen
3DS FC
4742-5570-4170
Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed is also awesome, I loved it. I have yet to play its original title though, but I heard it's better.
All of the this!

Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Transformed was and amazing racing game [despite the long title], one of, if not the best i've ever played. I find it weird for me to be saying this but I think it's better than Mario Kart, at least on certain aspects. It did the vehicle transformations right unlike Mario Kart. The items are very fair, unlike Mario Kart, and a majority of the tracks change rather drastically through the course of the race. Sure you can't customize your vehicle but that's where leveling up your character and picking a different stat modifier came into play.

I'd argue that they only thing they did worse than Mario Kart and its predecessor is the character unlock system which is needlessly hard to do to get all of them. [I still don't think i've unlocked all the characters.] They also cut out Billy Hatcher which is another problem I have, but character bias aside it's fantastic. Other than that it improved upon everything the first one had to offer and then some. And whoever told you the first one is better is mistaken. This one's much deeper and more streamline than the first one, at least in my eyes. It just took everything that make the first one great and made it better. [aside from character unlocking and the character roster but that's subjective.]

But all the flaws with the game are outweighed for my bais that Skies of Arcadia finally got the representation it deserved. Vyse all the way baby.

[This is off topic but I just realized OP and I live like two hours or so away from each other. Hello OP, nice weather were having today.]
 
Last edited:

MajinBuu272

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
243
Location
Paris, Tennessee
NNID
KidBuu9000
Switch FC
SW-5273-4956-4209
ya, sonic al star racing transformed is THE best mario kart "knock off" every.. i like it better than mario kart actually... i always used the mokeys aiai and amigo :-)
 

Twewy

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
1,827
As far as ports goes, Sonic CD, 1 and 2 were all great ports. 2 felt a bit iffy at launch due to the bugs and oddities with the physics, but many of that got fixed. Shame Sega is actually denying future remakes of Sonic 3 and Knuckles. :/
I feel Taxman did a REALLY great job with the Sonic 1/2/CD ports.
 

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
I feel Taxman did a REALLY great job with the Sonic 1/2/CD ports.
It upsets me that SoJ said no to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. What the hell is wrong with SEGA? Isn't that like... one of the most well received games of theirs? WTF
 

Krackshot Kroc

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
531
Location
Knightdale, North Carolina
The Sonic franchise undoubtedly has gotten worse since its debut I am sure most of us can agree on that, but I have enjoyed the effort Sonic Team and Sega have been putting within the last couple of years for the hedgehog. It's not game breaking by any means but I did enjoy Generations and from what I hear Colors was a very good game. Also although it's a spin-off, Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed is easily one of my favorite racing games.
 

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
Despite Lost World (. . .) being terrible.

Lost World was half decentish (before becoming crap) and didn't follow the tropes of the usual bad Sonic games. It had some hype and it ended up being disappointing, but that's about it.
I really don't get why Lost World gets so much hate. I actually thought it pretty enjoyable, even if the secret levels were easier than everything that came before them. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I see a lot of people say that they didn't like the game but I've never seen anyone give a reason why. Would you mind elaborating on your opinion?

Also, SEGA needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheel. They FINALLY got Sonic to have a much better reputation with their new formula for the games, but only to abandon it with Lost World aka "we don't know what this game is suppose to be!".
I feel like Lost World was meant to be an evolution of Colors while taking notes from what Sonic X-Treme could have been. For all intents and purposes it plays very much like a sequel to Colors would.

On the offhand, that's what was killing Sonic for years. SEGA could never just say "Okay, this works so let's make something similar to that." Starting with SA1 as a base, SA2 refined Sonic's game play, the Chao mini game, slowed down the treasure hunting and mech levels (if that's good or not is a point of debate) and streamlined level progression, removing adventure fields (which were really only there in the first game because it was a thing that Mario 64 did).

Jump ahead to Heroes, which pretty much threw all of SA1 and 2's game play out of the window in an attempt to feel closer to the Genesis games and also added in overly long levels and the character swapping mechanic. From there, every single future Sonic game would be afraid to just do what works and would have to put in some kind of gimmick. This is why Sonic 4 was such a let down, instead of replicating the Genesis games they instead gave it a wonky physics engine and tried to distance it from them.
 

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
I really don't get why Lost World gets so much hate. I actually thought it pretty enjoyable, even if the secret levels were easier than everything that came before them. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I see a lot of people say that they didn't like the game but I've never seen anyone give a reason why. Would you mind elaborating on your opinion?



I feel like Lost World was meant to be an evolution of Colors while taking notes from what Sonic X-Treme could have been. For all intents and purposes it plays very much like a sequel to Colors would.
Lost World didn't feel much like Colors though. It was a completely different game with a new gameplay style. It had wisps, which I felt were shoehorned in. But the mechanics were very different.

As for the game... this is gonna be a bit lengthy.

I wasn't a fan of how really stiff the controls felt in 2D. Jumping also feels stiff because it'd often stop your momentum. Many of the later levels weren't very fun either due to either being mechanically flawed or just plain cheap. Sometimes the game would change the rules for inconvenience's sake. I don't understand why the 4 act of the beach level suddenly decided that water is instant kill when that wasn't the case earlier.

The snow level (outside of the snowball act) wasn't very fun either. Act 1 had a very messy and confusing level design with lots of frustrating hazards and mechanics. The ice skating mechanic was pointless and hinders your controls way too much while making you too vulnerable, it became more so prominent in act 4, which is very annoying. Act 3 had a cool idea of giving us a Casino level, but the 3D segments were too flat and too straight forward while the pinball segments were annoying (being forced to play pinball AND getting killed for losing the pinball game is just not cool, I'm trying to play a Sonic game here!).

Jungle level was okay, but the stealth section felt out of place and I didn't really care much for the random cave act (that was ripped off of Windy Hill Act 3). Only thing that truly annoyed me was the Act 2 boss, where there was no way to know that I was suppose to kick (a random mechanic that was barely used) the missiles at the boss. I've spent too many minutes figuring out the boss then I remember the useless kick exists. But that was an okay world overall, I didn't mind it too much.

Sky Road was full of cheap pits and annoying level design. Also in act 2, the dragon breaks the platforms and there were no signal the platforms were gonna break beforehand, making it too trial and error. Having difficulty is fine, but the way that was handled was kind of cheap. They've could've fixed it by having the platforms start a "Crumbling" animation, giving you a chance to realize the situation. Not to mention, when you fight Act 2's boss, your homing attack sometimes malfunction when you're attacking each segment of the boss (before reaching his head). Act 3 (the windy one where you're in air forever) was okay I guess? I don't really care for its mechanic or controls, it made navigating through things a bit too difficult. Act 4 was just really awful and annoying.

...That volcano world though, that one really takes the cake. Act 2 is the worst. Who really thought it was a good idea to have instant kill minecart bombs? There is nothing fun about that at all! D:

IDK, I realllyyy wanted to enjoy the game, but the game felt really off and often frustrating. I also didn't care for the multi-level homing attack. It made some bosses way too easy. I've one-shotted a few late-game bosses with that.

On the offhand, that's what was killing Sonic for years. SEGA could never just say "Okay, this works so let's make something similar to that." Starting with SA1 as a base, SA2 refined Sonic's game play, the Chao mini game, slowed down the treasure hunting and mech levels (if that's good or not is a point of debate) and streamlined level progression, removing adventure fields (which were really only there in the first game because it was a thing that Mario 64 did).

Jump ahead to Heroes, which pretty much threw all of SA1 and 2's game play out of the window in an attempt to feel closer to the Genesis games and also added in overly long levels and the character swapping mechanic. From there, every single future Sonic game would be afraid to just do what works and would have to put in some kind of gimmick. This is why Sonic 4 was such a let down, instead of replicating the Genesis games they instead gave it a wonky physics engine and tried to distance it from them.
I'm definitely with you there about Heroes. The levels being overly long is part of what killed the game for me. I can't stand that. Also it introduced the concept of badniks having multiple HP, I don't know why they felt that was a good idea.

And yeah, Sonic 4 not only had wonky physics, the level design was really awful and frustrating. Also didn't like how you can abuse the homing attack, I felt the homing attack itself removed a lot of depth by being included in the 2D games. That mechanic is only really meant for the 3D games. And the fact this game was outsourced to Dimps sort of shows how little care they have for Sonic 4 to begin with.
 
Last edited:

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
(very long explanation)

IDK, I realllyyy wanted to enjoy the game, but the game felt really off and often frustrating. I also didn't care for the multi-level homing attack. It made some bosses way too easy. I've one-shotted a few late-game bosses with that.
I have to second you on a few of these those. Especially with the 2D issues, although IMO that's a problem I've been having with the series since they revamped the formula. I get how you'd be frustrated by the high difficulty (especially with how stingy the game was with lives pre-update) but it never really bothered me. Maybe being a fan of games like Castlevania has beat a "losing is fun" mentality into me or something.

Ironically, I actually kept losing to Big Red Dude (can't remember his name, leader of the six) because you have to use the multi level homing attack on him. Which I didn't even realize was in the game until I looked it up.

I'm definitely with you there about Heroes. The levels being overly long is part of what killed the game for me. I can't stand that. Also it introduced the concept of badniks having multiple HP, I don't know why they felt that was a good idea.
Yeah, I'm not sure why they decided to give enemies hit points. I think it was to encourage you to use your party's power character to dispatch them quickly but in practice it just slowed the game down and made it monotonous. Ironically, this got addressed in Shadow the Hedgehog where they give you weapons that can quickly bring HP down at a distance. Although IMO Shadow the Hedgehog is not that bad of a game. It's not a masterpiece by any means, but most complaints have to do with its story rather than anything game play oriented.

And yeah, Sonic 4 not only had wonky physics, the level design was really awful and frustrating. Also didn't like how you can abuse the homing attack, I felt the homing attack itself removed a lot of depth by being included in the 2D games. That mechanic is only really meant for the 3D games. And the fact this game was outsourced to Dimps sort of shows how little care they have for Sonic 4 to begin with.
Let's not forget that the homing attack is how you get speed, making the spin dash completely useless. At least Colors came out that same year to distract everyone from it.
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
10,513
Location
Corona, CA
It's kind of interesting how the series always tries to change the physics over and over again. The team never did have this if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude. It's too bad since a lot of the times it can bring some bad results. Look at the Mega Man series for Classic. It refined it little by little in the NES era. Then when the SNES game, 7, came out, it just felt too off.

I've only played a tiny bit of Generations' demo, so I can't remember how the 2D portions felt compared to the older games. But I do remember Sonic 4 feeling way off. I never did finish that game.
 
Last edited:

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
I have to second you on a few of these those. Especially with the 2D issues, although IMO that's a problem I've been having with the series since they revamped the formula. I get how you'd be frustrated by the high difficulty (especially with how stingy the game was with lives pre-update) but it never really bothered me. Maybe being a fan of games like Castlevania has beat a "losing is fun" mentality into me or something.

Ironically, I actually kept losing to Big Red Dude (can't remember his name, leader of the six) because you have to use the multi level homing attack on him. Which I didn't even realize was in the game until I looked it up.



Yeah, I'm not sure why they decided to give enemies hit points. I think it was to encourage you to use your party's power character to dispatch them quickly but in practice it just slowed the game down and made it monotonous. Ironically, this got addressed in Shadow the Hedgehog where they give you weapons that can quickly bring HP down at a distance. Although IMO Shadow the Hedgehog is not that bad of a game. It's not a masterpiece by any means, but most complaints have to do with its story rather than anything game play oriented.



Let's not forget that the homing attack is how you get speed, making the spin dash completely useless. At least Colors came out that same year to distract everyone from it.
Actually, I'm a huge fan of difficult games. I do appreciate Sonic wanting to have difficult levels, but I just don't agree with how Lost World handled it. Difficulty is fine when the fault is the player's and not the game's. Mega Man is a challenging series I enjoy. Most of the deaths I get is from my own errors, for not playing right. But when it comes to difficulty by "trial and error" (like the game decides to pull a cheap trick on you without any fair warning), then that's where it kind of gets unfun to me.

That reminds me, I need to finish Castlevania 1 NES. That game is TOUGHHHH but so rewarding/fun when you figure out things.

I've played Shadow for the first time a few years ago, I really really dislike that game. The mission structure was a mess, the controls were slippery, and it suffers the overly long level structure. But yeah, the story and its really weird concept of Shadow with gun is incredibly off putting too. The progression of the game also felt kind of disjointed...


And yeah LMAO, the homing attack pretty much defeated any use of actual momentum. Did the devs even cared about proper game design when they made Sonic 4? Game felt sooo messy.

It's kind of interesting how the series always tries to change the physics over and over again. The team never did have this if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude. It's too bad since a lot of the times it can bring some bad results. Look at the Mega Man series for Classic. It refined it little by little in the NES era. Then when the SNES game, 7, came out, it just felt too off.

I've only played a tiny bit of Generations' demo, so I can't remember how the 2D portions felt compared to the older games. But I do remember Sonic 4 feeling way off. I never did finish that game.
Generations' 2D segments felt very different (and not as good) as the classics, but on its own it actually feels decent. The controls felt consistent and fun, which is what Sonic 4 unfortunately really lacked. My only bigger complaints in Generation's 2D segments is that the spindash is very OP along with the jumping feeling a bit off. (The full game had better controls compared to the demo if I'm not mistaken)

You know what's VERY ironic about this though? The 3DS version of Sonic Generations actually had physics that felt A LOT more closer to the classic games than any of the modern Sonic games have after the GBA games and that version is done by Dimps, the same company that made the awkward Sonic 4 games!
 
Last edited:

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
It's kind of interesting how the series always tries to change the physics over and over again. The team never did have this if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude. It's too bad since a lot of the times it can bring some bad results. Look at the Mega Man series for Classic. It refined it little by little in the NES era. Then when the SNES game, 7, came out, it just felt too off.
I think SEGA might have this fear that if they don't constantly shake up Sonic's formula or change things in a significant way fans will get bored with the series. I assume this comes from the fact that SA1 was drastically different from its 2D counterparts and was a critic and financial success upon release. But that was back in 1999 when Sonic was still taken seriously by the general gaming community. For the past few years it's just made SEGA look like they were willing to throw anything into a Sonic game in hopes that it might bring him back into favor. They found a winning formula in Colors, it seems. Although I enjoy the new games I still wish that they had continued to refine Adventure's game play.

I doubt that we're ever going to get a SA3, though. And even if we do I think that it would has a very different feel from the Adventure series.

I also really, really miss the cheesy hard rock sound track from those games. Maybe it's because my idea of what Sonic is supposed to be is based heavily on those games, but the cheesy Owl City style electronic music from Colors just doesn't do it for me.

I've played Shadow for the first time a few years ago, I really really dislike that game. The mission structure was a mess, the controls were slippery, and it suffers the overly long level structure. But yeah, the story and its really weird concept of Shadow with gun is incredibly off putting too. The progression of the game also felt kind of disjointed...
Yeah, the game was a mess but it was still better than Heroes IMO. Significantly less glitchy, better level design (usually) and the fact that there was a way to quickly take down enemies with high HP made it enjoyable for me.

Although doing anything out side of the neutral "get to the end" objectives could be an absolute nightmare. The game is still mediocre, but still a step up from Heroes.

You know what's VERY ironic about this though? The 3DS version of Sonic Generations actually had physics that felt A LOT more closer to the classic games than any of the modern Sonic games have after the GBA games and that version is done by Dimps, the same company that made the awkward Sonic 4 games!
From what I've read the reason why Sonic 4 played so weird is because SEGA wanted the game to feel very different from the Genesis games. Which completely defeats the point but I'm going to point back to my "SEGA is afraid fans will get bored" theory.
 

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
SEGA is not very bright are they? :s


As for Shadow and Heroes. It has been many years ago since I last played Heroes. I remember enjoying a little bit of the game but a lot of it was frustrating or boring to me.
 
Last edited:

finalark

SNORLAX
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
7,829
Location
Tucson, Arizona
These are the same people who refused to localize Phantasy Star Online 2 despite it having an explosively huge English amount of western fans playing the Japanese version. Not only that, but their history also consists of hiring someone who nearly drove the PS1 into the ground to have compete control over how the Saturn would be handled internationally, releasing the 32x and SEGA CD even though SOJ knew that the Saturn was on its way and refusing to tell SOA that and the fact that they refuse to promote their non-Sonic games outside of Japan and then wonder why they don't sell.

So yes, as much as I love SEGA for various reasons they are not known for making good choices.
 
Last edited:

Heroine of Winds

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
645
Location
United States
It upsets me that SoJ said no to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. What the hell is wrong with SEGA? Isn't that like... one of the most well received games of theirs? WTF
The main reason why S3&K was never remade was due to some of the songs influenced from Micheal Jackson's music. I don't understand why they couldn't just get the rights instead of not doing anything about it. Sega & their dumb decisions. :/
 

Naoshi

wow this is a custom title
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
6,140
Location
bords
The main reason why S3&K was never remade was due to some of the songs influenced from Micheal Jackson's music. I don't understand why they couldn't just get the rights instead of not doing anything about it. Sega & their dumb decisions. :/
That may explain why they used a different soundfont for their S3&K tracks in Sonic Generations...

Interesting enough, Sonic 3D Blast's only song got the same treatment too. But the other 16bit Sonic titles' songs? Original versions 100%
 

Minato

穏やかじゃない
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
10,513
Location
Corona, CA
SEGA is not very bright are they? :s


As for Shadow and Heroes. It has been many years ago since I last played Heroes. I remember enjoying a little bit of the game but a lot of it was frustrating or boring to me.
I think that's the problem for Heroes for me. Post Dreamcast era, it wasn't too bad of a game and probably one of the least offenders before Sonic slowly got back on track. I liked how the game stayed on track for its gameplay instead of throwing something random that's not Sonic-like. The stages felt inferior to me compared to some of SA1 and 2's stages though. SA had some clever shortcuts and intended sequence breaks. Heroes had long stages requiring switching at certain road blocks. It's a game that's fun to replay when it's been awhile, but not as fun if you plan to speedrun multiple times in the same day.

On another note, Unleashed was pretty fun. Obviously Werehog slowed things down, but it could've been worse. The stages were really pretty, and they were fun to speedrun. Eggman Land was a fun gauntlet to go through at the end too. So many different paths. It wasn't the perfect game, but I have some nostalgia bias for it. It was my first 360 game, and I treated it as a Dreamcast console because of it.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom