Let's just take a moment here to acknowledge the good Sonic games

[finalark]

My friends and I went on a crusade to play through all of the main series Sonic games a few years ago. While I liked Heroes quite a bit as a kid going back and revisiting it I found that I just do not enjoy the game anymore. Somehow the controls and even looser than Adventure's, the levels are way too long for their own good, enemies take multiple hits to kill which completely destroys the pacing and it doesn't help that you have to play through the same series of very long levels four times in a row to beat the game. Plus it has the same old camera issues.

Heroes is a game that I enjoy for nostalgic purposes, but the fact that I can't marathon it the way I can the other games just makes it very unappealing to me in hindsight.

Unfortunately, I never got a chance to play the HD version of Unleashed because I bought into the hype that the Wii version was the "good" version of the game. I remember not really hating it as much as everyone else did but not really caring for it either. I'm thinking about giving the game another shot on PS3 at some point in the future if I can hunt down a copy. I can't say I've played the game recently because our campaign was brought to an end by Sonic '06. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on that one, since everyone on the internet has covered that game. All I can really add to it is that it's a game so bad that it brought my friends' and I, three life-long Sonic fans, quest to play every game in the series to an abrupt end.

 

[Naoshi]

I think that's the problem for Heroes for me. Post Dreamcast era, it wasn't too bad of a game and probably one of the least offenders before Sonic slowly got back on track. I liked how the game stayed on track for its gameplay instead of throwing something random that's not Sonic-like. The stages felt inferior to me compared to some of SA1 and 2's stages though. SA had some clever shortcuts and intended sequence breaks. Heroes had long stages requiring switching at certain road blocks. It's a game that's fun to replay when it's been awhile, but not as fun if you plan to speedrun multiple times in the same day.

On another note, Unleashed was pretty fun. Obviously Werehog slowed things down, but it could've been worse. The stages were really pretty, and they were fun to speedrun. Eggman Land was a fun gauntlet to go through at the end too. So many different paths. It wasn't the perfect game, but I have some nostalgia bias for it. It was my first 360 game, and I treated it as a Dreamcast console because of it.

I usually get bored of Heroes within an hour of playing it or less. The long stages are indeed the issue.

As for Unleashed, I like the Day stages, Night stages I sort of liked at first but I got bored/annoyed with it quickly. I don't think the Werehog stuff is for me at all. I think it's weird they force you to play lengthy very slow stages in a game that basically gave Sonic's normal gameplay very fast intense action. Really jarring. But that game was a def step in the right direction at least, I cracked a smile which the last few 3D Sonic games (at the time) didn't manage to do.

My friends and I went on a crusade to play through all of the main series Sonic games a few years ago. While I liked Heroes quite a bit as a kid going back and revisiting it I found that I just do not enjoy the game anymore. Somehow the controls and even looser than Adventure's, the levels are way too long for their own good, enemies take multiple hits to kill which completely destroys the pacing and it doesn't help that you have to play through the same series of very long levels four times in a row to beat the game. Plus it has the same old camera issues.

Heroes is a game that I enjoy for nostalgic purposes, but the fact that I can't marathon it the way I can the other games just makes it very unappealing to me in hindsight.

Unfortunately, I never got a chance to play the HD version of Unleashed because I bought into the hype that the Wii version was the "good" version of the game. I remember not really hating it as much as everyone else did but not really caring for it either. I'm thinking about giving the game another shot on PS3 at some point in the future if I can hunt down a copy. I can't say I've played the game recently because our campaign was brought to an end by Sonic '06. I'm not going to beat a dead horse on that one, since everyone on the internet has covered that game. All I can really add to it is that it's a game so bad that it brought my friends' and I, three life-long Sonic fans, quest to play every game in the series to an abrupt end.

06 was an abomination, truly video game hell and was a huge part of why (along with Shadow's game) Sonic became such a laughing stock.

 

[Twewy]

06 was an abomination, truly video game hell and was a huge part of why (along with Shadow's game) Sonic became such a laughing stock.

I think Shadow was about average, though it could have been better with some gameplay choices. It's a solid 5/10, at least IMO. At least it worked.

Sure can't defend 06 though. It may have had potential if it wasn't broken to hell and back.

 

[Naoshi]

I think Shadow was about average, though it could have been better with some gameplay choices. It's a solid 5/10, at least IMO. At least it worked.

Sure can't defend 06 though. It may have had potential if it wasn't broken to hell and back.

I'd give it more of a 3/10 or 4/10 personally. The game felt like a sloppy mess in many ways. But yeah, I'd much rather play this over 06 which isn't saying much. I don't feel the game worked, unless you mean it worked functionally, but that's not really anything worth giving it credit for personally.

 

[finalark]

I'd give it more of a 3/10 or 4/10 personally. The game felt like a sloppy mess in many ways. But yeah, I'd much rather play this over 06 which isn't saying much. I don't feel the game worked, unless you mean it worked functionally, but that's not really anything worth giving it credit for personally.

Still more functional than Heroes!

Unless I just got very lucky on my last play through of Shadow and encountered no glitches.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

Shadow the Hedgehog was so bad that the game quit working on me by the time I got to the second level. Good thing because I didn't enjoy this game at all due to the terrible gameplay & camera.

 

[Naoshi]

Shadow the Hedgehog was so bad that the game quit working on me by the time I got to the second level. Good thing because I didn't enjoy this game at all due to the terrible gameplay & camera.

The controls were soooooo slippery too, but I've played the PS2 version which might've been the worst version?

 

[Heroine of Winds]

The controls were soooooo slippery too, but I've played the PS2 version which might've been the worst version?

I wouldn't know because I had the Gamecube version before I got rid of it. Last I checked, the controls were pretty slippery there, too.

 

[finalark]

That's because Shadow ran on the Heroes engine, which had horribly slippery controls period.

 

[final lap]

it is **** that Sonic walks now. You're in a level (as in, not a hub, but the actual level) and you jam on the control stick, but he waddles forward like he's just been unfrozen and about to fall over any second. And when he finally does run he looks like a scrunched up flailing tub man, how nice!

boost Sonic was a horrible experiment. Except for Sonic Unleashed for PS2 and Wii. (one of the best Sonic games ever made) It wasn't even 60 fps but I can let it slide just because the game is at least that good.

They should re-release Colors and Generations (for WiiU I guess) at 60 fps and have Sonic's character model and animations retooled. And remove all the cutscenes from both games. And unless this is going too far, maybe change the Shadow boss fight completely. It's some deus ex machina **** right there that Sonic now solves all his problems by barreling into things and somehow those things magically fling themselves at whatever is fighting Sonic. Bad karma I guess.

Sonic Heroes would have been better if the grinding was fixed and if the team mechanic was stripped out. Maybe a retooled version could work well where the teams are only 2 characters each or if the character switching was completely predetermined. (sort of like how in 06 you had to play as certain characters at certain points)

Sonic Boom is not a Sonic game, it's a licensed game based off a TV series and should be treated as such.

 

[finalark]

They should re-release Colors and Generations (for WiiU I guess) at 60 fps and have Sonic's character model and animations retooled. And remove all the cutscenes from both games.

I'm all for HD Colors (some of those levels would be absolutely beautiful in high resolution) but why remove the cutscenes? Even if you don't like the story you can skip them.

Sonic Heroes would have been better if the grinding was fixed and if the team mechanic was stripped out. Maybe a retooled version could work well where the teams are only 2 characters each or if the character switching was completely predetermined. (sort of like how in 06 you had to play as certain characters at certain points)

They already tried that in '06. It completely destroys game flow and is always awkward and jarring. It would have been better if they assigned each character their each levels.

Although Heroes is also the point where SEGA just didn't know what to do with the series anymore and had to start adding increasingly obtuse gimmicks in every new Sonic game instead of just continuing to evolve the game play from the Adventure series.

Sonic Boom is not a Sonic game, it's a licensed game based off a TV series and should be treated as such.

At least SEGA seems to be treating it like that and is trying to distance it from the main series. SEGA also announced that they'd be making TV shows based on some of their dead IPs like Streets of Rage and Golden Axe. Which I'm wary of because it might mean reboots of those series based on their new shows. And if Sonic Boom is an indicator this will not end well.

 

[final lap]

They already tried that in '06. It completely destroys game flow and is always awkward and jarring.

You mean to say that hubs don't? Or snowboarding? or Elise stages? or mach speed stages? God forbid we play as one of the Sonic characters in a Sonic game.

You're wrong, it worked excellently. And the Heroes team mechanic destroys game flow anyway, so it doesn't really make sense to level the complaint here.
This is aside from the quality of the characters themselves. Tails being my least favorite character in the game, and pretty much all the characters having technical issues except Sonic/Shadow/Blaze and Silver, but there was nothing with the team system itself that was wrong.

It would have been better if they assigned each character their each levels.

I could argue that it's more or less what they did... since you could just mentally pretend each segment is its own level, and the distinction is mostly a cosmetic one.
Also, they did that with SA2, and it was still criticized. So if you wanted to be really hardball, then just make the entire campaign one character.
Lately I wonder if SA2 should be or should have been re-released with the stages reorganized by gameplay style rather than Hero/Dark. Simply because this is what might be better "objectively". I love SA2 but I figure objectivity is a two way street and sometimes concessions must be made for the good of all.

 

[finalark]

You mean to say that hubs don't? Or snowboarding? or Elise stages? or mach speed stages? God forbid we play as one of the Sonic characters in a Sonic game.

I'm going to throw you for a loop here and say that I'm one of the few people who are baffled at why people got so salty over having multiple playable characters in the Sonic games. Hell, prior to Unleashed the only main series Sonic game were you could only be Sonic was Sonic 1.

You're wrong, it worked excellently.

The second that you throw a "you're wrong and I'm right" into your argument is the moment where I really start to lose interest in a discussion.

This is aside from the quality of the characters themselves. Tails being my least favorite character in the game, and pretty much all the characters having technical issues except Sonic/Shadow/Blaze and Silver, but there was nothing with the team system itself that was wrong.

IMO the team system was something that sounds fine on paper but just didn't work in practice.

Although thinking back to '06 I recall Blaze's segments being the most stable while Sonic and Shadow mostly fell victim to poor level design. Silver had the issue of having too many exploits with his powers in addition to poor level design. Although there's really no point in discussing Sonic '06, since everything that ever could be said about that game already has been so I'll stop beating a dead horse.

I could argue that it's more or less what they did... since you could just mentally pretend each segment is its own level, and the distinction is mostly a cosmetic one.

The problem is that although I guess you could do that the problem is that they didn't. As a result, each level takes way too damn long to complete and suddenly asks you to adjust to a new character at seemingly random intervals. IMO they should have just done away with the world map entirely (I wasn't a fan of it in SA1 either, the only reason why it's there is because it's a thing that Mario 64 did). You can have you three stories, but instead of Sonic's story, Shadow's story and Silver's story it should have been hero story, dark story and time traveler's story where you have a set of characters in each with their own levels.

Basically, they should have just copied SA2's progression.

Also, they did that with SA2, and it was still criticized. So if you wanted to be really hardball, then just make the entire campaign one character.

As far as I've heard this varies from person to person. It basically depends on if you like the world map SA1 or would rather just have the linear progression.

Lately I wonder if SA2 should be or should have been re-released with the stages reorganized by gameplay style rather than Hero/Dark. Simply because this is what might be better "objectively". I love SA2 but I figure objectivity is a two way street and sometimes concessions must be made for the good of all.

Honestly, it probably would have been better if the game was structured like that but there's not a whole lot that can be changed now. Maybe we'll get something like that if SEGA ever makes Sonic Adventure 3.

 

[Chinaux]

Honestly sonic does suck. Every sonic game past sa2b is garbage. Sonic Generations was boring as hell to me, Colors was okay, Sonic and the Black Knight was dumb as hell, Sonic Heroes was fun when I was like 10. I really think Sega is just beating a dead horse on this one, I genuinely think sonic should've ended at SA2B.

 

[finalark]

I used to be in the mindset that no Sonic was better than consistently mediocre Sonic, but I've actually really enjoyed Sonic Colors, Generation and Lost World. For a while I was waiting for the game that would make me feel like I was ten years old again, when the Sonic games, comic books and cartoons were just the coolest thing in the world to me. I've come to accept that will likely never happen and have chosen to enjoy the new games instead of harshly criticize them at every turn.

Granted, the last few games have actually been pretty damn solid, possibly even comparable to the Adventure series. Although I'm sure the good reputation of the Dreamcast games is entirely based in nostalgia this point. I know I can't look at them objectively since both SA1 and SA2 were such big parts of my childhood and it's hard for me to not enjoy them, broken camera and all.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I think Colors was a fantastic game. Lacking in the boss department, but it is really in my opinion the formula SEGA should've stuck with for gameplay in a Sonic game in the modern age: a hybrid of 2D and 3D platforming with a decent blend of speed and platforming, with power-ups that enhance the game rather than be required or detract from the experience, with levels that have branching paths and explorable areas. Seriously go replay Aquarium Park, the bigger levels of that zone have a TON of ground to explore. On top of that, Colors controlled really well. I've heard Lost Levels is kinda eh and Sonic Boom is terrible, and I intend to play both because as a Sonic fan I need to find out what's so bad or eh about each major game for myself, but I definitely think between 2010 and 2012 there was a decent helping of good Sonic games or at least half-decent Sonic games, and I really wish we'd just have more of that.

 

[finalark]

I've heard Lost Levels is kinda eh and Sonic Boom is terrible, and I intend to play both because as a Sonic fan I need to find out what's so bad or eh about each major game for myself, but I definitely think between 2010 and 2012 there was a decent helping of good Sonic games or at least half-decent Sonic games, and I really wish we'd just have more of that.

I'd have to agree with you there. IMO Sonic's been on an uphill climb lately. Lost World is more of a love-it-or-hate it kind of game. They try a lot of new things with the Colors formula, if it works or not is pretty much up to you. I'm hoping that we'll continue to see Sonic improve as the years roll by

And Boom isn't considered a main series game, for what it's worth. Although nobody takes Sonic seriously anymore and would rather make fun of him instead of seeing his games improve, so you can bet that the second that a bad game comes out everyone will be on that like a hound.

 

[Minato]

I used to be in the mindset that no Sonic was better than consistently mediocre Sonic

I probably felt the former once we started going from Shadow to '06 (Heroes wasn't offensive, just felt more like an imitation that fell short). Unleashed wasn't the best game, but that's when I started feeling some charm from Sonic games again. It was a lot more light hearted, and some neat day stages that made you appreciate how they handled geographical locations.

Plus at this point, there aren't a lot of platformers that interest me outside of the Nintendo stuff. I know there are things like Rayman, but I wouldn't say they bring the same nostalgia for me. I'm looking forward to whatever game Sonic Team is working on next. Like most of the Sonic games on Nintendo, I can't imagine that's where their main team completely focused on, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see something new soon or next year.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

It is at least somewhat good to know the absolute worst Sonic Team has done on Sonic themselves after that disastrous 2006 game was Unleashed or Lost World, depending on who you ask and despite that there are still good points arguable for both games.

I remember after 2006 a lot of people wanted Sonic Team out and wanted Dimps to take over making Sonic games.

Then we had this more recent era of Sonic games.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unleashed is good with it's Sonic areas, it's bad parts are the werehog which were just, "meh" at best. Lost Worlds actually isn't a bad game, but definitely not up to par with Colors or Generations, Generations being the best Sonic game made in the last ten years.

I still have not played Sonic Boom myself, but I plan on it when I can get it used and endure what people tell me is torture. The 3DS version I heard is actually not that bad, though at best average or below average. People overhype the Genesis era. Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K are indeed amazing games, the ladder being imo the best Sonic game ever made. But remember 3D Blast and Labyrinth came out in this era.

Fortunately this game was an outsourced project so while not directly Sega like Lost worlds was I can at least hope future Sonic titles will be less bad.

That said, people saying it is worse than 06, Free Riders or Labyrinth. You need to play them and see just how bad the series can get at times.

I love this series but for every high point, there is something equally terrible.

 

[Twewy]

If they're doing to do games with characters that aren't just Sonic, I'd love to see a return to Gamma's gameplay from Adventure. Eggman/Tail's levels were cool in SA2, but I preferred Gamma's gameplay a bit more. It felt more similar to Sonic.

 

[LIVERPOOP]

sonic mega collection (DS) is absolutely essential. anyone with a DS or 3DS must own it.

 

[Twewy]

sonic mega collection (DS) is absolutely essential. anyone with a DS or 3DS must own it.

Or what, have SEGA come after our asses?

 

[LIVERPOOP]

Or what, have SEGA come after our *****?

or live in a world where you don't own the sonic mega collection... what a **** world!!!

 

[Twewy]

or live in a world where you don't own the sonic mega collection... what a **** world!!!

What if we own the superior Gamecube version?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I'd like to vouch for the Sonic Advance series as being highly underrated and being Sonic's saving grace during the decline of his 3D games.

Amen.
Seriously, the Advance trilogy was great and really should get a remake.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

sonic mega collection (DS) is absolutely essential. anyone with a DS or 3DS must own it.

Unless you have Mega Collection Plus for PS2 like I did. Although I admit I hate the load times on that thing when it comes to doing menu stuff.

I have Sonic 1 and 2 on my phone, they actually play really well and I LOVE that Christian Whitehead made Hidden Palace in Sonic 2, and I had a blast playing that.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Holy ****, I've found my thread!

First off, I love Colors to death and It's my favorite 3D Sonic game ever.
I feel that Generations, while also good, is kinda killed off by the vibe of the minute amount of levels. Which makes the flaws of that version of Planet Wisp be very noticeable.

Unleashed was pretty cool, I will say that I did like the beat-em up part of the Were-Hog stages though I wasn't crazy about it's platforming.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Conversely I actually enjoyed the SD version's Werehog platforming and hated the combat in both versions. It mostly bugs me the stages in the HD version were way too damn long.

Generations made up for its lack of more levels with the challenges mostly having new layouts and most of them were actually fun to play. However they're not nearly as replayable, kind of like a lot of Day Stage missions in Unleashed for both versions but moreso the SD version.

I think we can all agree the boost mechanic when handled well was actually a welcome addition and going fast can be enjoyable when the level design is good. I dunno why they inched away from that.

 

[LIQUID12A]

The last decent Sonic game I've touched is Uneashed, specifically the Wii version. I really don't care that much for the series, honestly, but a few months ago I dared to touch the hell that was Sonic 06 again because my internet flopped for a few days and I was bored. And it was the first time I touched the game in about maybe 3 years. I never finished it back in 06(lol) when it was given as a Christmas gift alongside the PS3.

Ugh.

Finishing it was a goddamn chore. I really do hate the fact that I don't own Generations at least. Though I do enjoy comparing game breaking glitches between Boom and 06. Both have equally amusing infinite jumps, for instance.

But yeah, the last time I genuinely enjoyed a Sonic game was Heroes. I was a kid back then, okay? I've never played Shadow, Secret Rings or even Colors. But since I've finished the game that's the bottom of the barrel for the series...jeez.

 

[takai]

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for Sega Genesis and SA2: Battle were my ****.

 

[finalark]

But yeah, the last time I genuinely enjoyed a Sonic game was Heroes. I was a kid back then, okay? I've never played Shadow, Secret Rings or even Colors. But since I've finished the game that's the bottom of the barrel for the series...jeez.

You might want to give the newer games a shot, since most of them are actually very good. Although if you struggle through '06 for fun I'm not sure how to recommend games to you. In my experience with '06 is a very fun game to watch due to how ridiculous it gets but it is not fun at all to play.

Granted, I feel like the only reason why people's general disposition toward the blue blur is "LOL SANIC" is partially because they just won't let Sonic '06 die. Seriously, everyone with a capture card has covered that game and people continue to talk about it even though there is absolutely nothing left to say. If I ever started a successful Youtube channel even though I'm a life long Sonic fan I would never feature it simply on the premise that I want the damn thing to die. Plus everything that could be said about that game has been said.

These days most people seem to agree that Sonic Colors and Generations was good, although I've seen a lot of mixed reactions to Lost World both critically and from fellow Sonic fans. Although these days people seem to be divided on when Sonic started to go downhill and when the series started to recover, if ever. Hell, I remember for a while the popular question was, "was 3D Sonic ever good to begin with?" You saw a lot of people going back and saying the acclaimed Adventure series was garbage all along. And the only reason why this is, is because it's Sonic that we're talking about here. If you're going to do that the least you could do is go back and take a look at praised games that legitimately don't hold up well like Goldeneye, ESIII Marrowind and System Shock 2.

 

[Naoshi]

It is at least somewhat good to know the absolute worst Sonic Team has done on Sonic themselves after that disastrous 2006 game was Unleashed or Lost World, depending on who you ask and despite that there are still good points arguable for both games.

I remember after 2006 a lot of people wanted Sonic Team out and wanted Dimps to take over making Sonic games.

Then we had this more recent era of Sonic games.

W-Wait people wanted DIMPS to take over Sonic? After Sonic Advance 2 and Sonic 4, I wouldn't trust them making a Sonic game ever again. *shudders*

Fortunately Dimps managed to make Rush Adventure and Colors DS fun, but Advance 1 was their only other great game. But unfortunately they went back to the ****ter with Sonic Generations and Lost World 3DS. *sigh*

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I thought Sonic Advance 2 was good. Sonic 4 wasn't terrible but it was definitely a huge letdown because there were so many expectations.

 

[Spak]

I own Advance 1 (I almost got it to 100% completion) my sister owns Advance 3, but for some reason we never found a copy of Advance 2 new and only recently have we found one used in a secondhand games store. Unfortunately, it was overpriced so we never actually got it.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

That's surprising, usually Sonic games are some of the cheapest platformers out there.

 

[Spak]

They had it priced at $20 while I can get it online for around $7-$10. $20 isn't a ridiculous price until you compare it to items of the same quality being sold online and realize they are trying to sell it for twice the amount it is actually worth.

Examples:
- Here
- Here
- Here
- Here

 

[Naoshi]

I thought Sonic Advance 2 was good. Sonic 4 wasn't terrible but it was definitely a huge letdown because there were so many expectations.

I didn't enjoy either game due to their level design (too many cheap hits and deaths, especially the former game). Advance 2 also has the most tedious process of earning Chaos Emeralds. I tried to like the game but I couldn't... Music Plant was a neat stage at least though, except for the bell enemies I keep getting ramped into.

But yeah, as for Sonic 4, it wasn't a completely terrible game. It's not good either even if I pretend it's not called "Sonic 4". The game itself felt cheapish due to its weak art style. The physics and controls felt too stiff, floaty and awkward. Air control is really stiff, and the fact doing an air dash is OP for speed (it makes you run EVEN faster) makes you picking up momentum from walking -> running pointless. In fact, the physics are taken straight from Sonic Rush, and these kind of physics does not fit a "classic-style" Sonic game, so naturally the gameplay design and physics don't mesh very well.

Also, a lot of the levels had many moments where I'm springed or ramped into an enemy or a pit without a fair warning. And a lot of that is typical dimps fare. The level themselves felt ripped from Sonic 1 and 2 for the most part with little originality at times. There's homage but then there's this.

I didn't like the homing attack addition, not because it's different, but because I think it's very OP and the game actively encourages you to use it, I felt it took the fun out of the game. Homing attack was necessary in 3D games because it'd be too hard to hit enemies in a 3D space since you're in a speeding game. But in 2D games, it was unneeded because you can easily hit enemies there. The only time where I feel homing attack sort of works in 2D games are the boost-style games.

It's weird how the game turned out, Sonic Advance 1 actually felt like it had more soul and actual effort done than Sonic 4. In fact, Advance 1 felt like an actual Sonic 4. Where did Dimps go wrong? Advance 1 (and even Pocket Adventure before they became Dimps) were their best work.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

The thing I didn't like about Sonic 4 is it clearly felt like Sonic Rush games without a boost feature, and not like the Genesis Sonic games at all. And personally I think Advance 3 was their best game. I like the mix of speed and platforming and the team mechanic was a lot of fun to toy around with.