Official Let's Get King Dedede Buffed! An Official Patch Request

[Deleted member]

Yeah, Bill Trinen is into competitive Smash. He even went to PAX South last year and did relatively well using Yoshi and Rosalina.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

Bill? Bill?! BILL!
https://vine.co/v/iBu2M3Kz6qu

 

[supersage400]

Well if you change your mind I know a bit of the lingo. E.g. forward air is usually called 空中前 in Japanese. If not, great. Looks good.

I think this is a good idea. I understand we're not after these specific changes, but using the terms that Japanese players are used to rather than trying to wing it shows more initiative on our part and goes a ways in further translating our passion. Plus, if we have someone who can do it, there's really no reason not to.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

NO. NO. NO.

 

[DE235]

Sorry to let you know but there are no more patches after this.

 

[Putuk]

Sorry to let you know but there are no more patches after this.

Sauce?

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry to let you know but there are no more patches after this.

Source, please.

 

[DE235]

Source, please.

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/09/famitsu499/

 

[Putuk]

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/09/famitsu499/

Did you just come here to be like "eyyy, your character SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!!!".
It's your dumb smug icon, ain't it?

 

[DE235]

No but I saw it and wanted to let you know. No I don't think DDD sucks.

 

[Putuk]

Well, t'was a good run.
Let's now all main a different character!
'cuz, y'know, this "winning" this is pretty cool, don't you think?

 

[TMJ_Jack]

You know what? **** IT. WE DON'T NEED PATCHES. We're the best damn community around! If we have to play as a ****ty character forever, SO BE IT.
LONG LIVE THE KING.

 

[Luig]

Well, RIP the dream of Sheik not being the dominant character in the metagame.

 

[Soul Train]

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/09/famitsu499/

I fail to see how this says anything new. Sakurai already said most of this - that this is the final DLC, no more development with new stuff like stages, Mii costumes, etc. But I distinctly remember him mentioning that they'll continue to "monitor and tweak" the game as necessary. With two new characters, I'm sure they're ready to fix weird bugs - like this as one solid example.

But patch or no, we're looking to get heard here by Nintendo. Even a confirmation of "thank you for your passion, but there are no more patches" would be enormous for the entire smash community - that a group of passionate players of a low-tier character got heard. If you're all ready, I'm ready to begin that process.

 

[Sebastian Fernandez]

I never have much of an issue getting KOs with KD3, but if the opponent is in control by juggling me, it isn't easy to get control back if they're making their most optimal choices and getting good reads.

For this reason, I'd agree with less startup and end lag for fair, and preferably a completely different dair as well as less startup and end lag on all of his specials.

The other ideas are good, but I don't know that they would buff his air speed all that much since he seems to have the best recovery of any of the heavies.

I find that if ddd gets a good read off a chasing opponent in air it is very helpful, however without the read i agree it is hard when juggled. Maybe this calls for a faster nair?

 

[Putuk]

I fail to see how this says anything new. Sakurai already said most of this - that this is the final DLC, no more development with new stuff like stages, Mii costumes, etc. But I distinctly remember him mentioning that they'll continue to "monitor and tweak" the game as necessary. With two new characters, I'm sure they're ready to fix weird bugs - like this as one solid example.

If we continue from here, won't be seem a tad desperate (not that that WASN'T the case before)?
The balancing team could easily just not care at this point.

I suppose either way is a quitter attitude.

 

[Soul Train]

If we continue from here, won't be seem a tad desperate (not that that WASN'T the case before)?
The balancing team could easily just not care at this point.

I suppose either way is a quitter attitude.

I would rather give the effort my best and still lose than know that I could've tried harder.

That's why we play Dedede. Not to win, but to freaking try as hard as we can and love the journey.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

I'm sorry that I got so upsetti earlier. I had some spaghetti, and now I'm good. So assuming that Samurai is full of it (Wouldn't be the first time, would it?), I agree that we should start the "getting publicity" phase of all this.

 

[Soul Train]

Alright, let's get this ball rolling. Success is any form of acknowledgement from Nintendo - failure is merely us not giving this a good shake.

First, here's the link to my tweet to Sakurai, here's the link to my tweet to Nintendo of America, and here's the link to my tweet to Bill Trinen. Please favorite/retweet/tweet variations of these on your own.

Second, for your convenience: here's the link to my original patch request video, here's the link to the English patch request list, and here's the link to the Japanese translation - send these anywhere you feel fit (I'd recommend using a URL shortener like bit.ly). In anything you say: please frame it first as gratitude for the game! We are not whining, we are showing our passion for the game and our favorite character. Keep that in the forefront.

Finally: what else can we do? Where else might we tweet this, who else might we contact? Let's do this, guys.

 

[Shining_Finger]

Perhaps we should get somebody to translate this all into Japanese.
It would save more tweet space(They could also share an outline), and it would eliminate the need for translators.
That is if the creator of SSB4 isn't fluent in English already, which I am not sure of.
At the very least it would save tweet space and show devotion.

 

[Putuk]

I agree that we should start the "getting publicity" phase of all this.

A big hurdle now will be that many will simply reply with "Sakurai said there won't be any more patches."

Be they right or wrong, it's certainly an easy way to shut us down. I don't think many will listen after claiming just that.

 

[Soul Train]

Perhaps we should get somebody to translate this all into Japanese.
It would save more tweet space(They could also share an outline), and it would eliminate the need for translators.
That is if the creator of SSB4 isn't fluent in English already, which I am not sure of.
At the very least it would save tweet space and show devotion.

Please read the previous post. We have a patch request translation, and I even sent out a translated tweet as well, all linked in that post.

A big hurdle now will be that many will simply reply with "Sakurai said there won't be any more patches."

Be they right or wrong, it's certainly an easy way to shut us down. I don't think many will listen after claiming just that.

Sakurai didn't say it. At all. Anyways, who cares, it's not our point to debate here. There is a patch team that obviously handles only a few issues at a time. Let's try to get Dedede on their shortlist.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I'm willing to bet it was just a poor choice of words. There are still some things that need addressing (bayonetta's double jump glitch), and there's no way corrin's stupid counter (that kills mac @ 3% with a slighty charged fsmash) isnt going to be tweaked.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind the Dedede nerfs from way back? I'm still confused as to why they thought those things needed nerfing, especially forward air.

 

[Soul Train]

Can anyone explain the reasoning behind the Dedede nerfs from way back? I'm still confused as to why they thought those things needed nerfing, especially forward air.

The most likely reason is just the dynamic of early 3DS days: the heavies shined then, and you saw a lot of nerfs. Bowser lost his SideB suicide kill, and Dedede got nerfed. Then the game started developing, and the slower characters fell behind - and Nintendo obviously tried to counteract that with many and very specific buffs to Bowser, Charizard, Ganondorf, and DK. ...just not D3.

As to why they never included D3 on that list, I have two thoughts. First, that Nintendo looked at D3 and was like "heavy + projectile + recovery = no buffs ever" and left things there. Ignoring all the, you know, glaring character holes and weaknesses that have just become worse over time. And that's sad. It's so obvious that the patch team put much time into specific nerfs/buffs throughout all patches - killing the Hoo Hah, giving a killthrow for Zard/Bowser, carefully removing Luigi's Dthrow->tornado kill, etc. All very meticulously done. Someone there knows what they're doing.

Yet it's obvious that this concept of patches is new for Nintendo - a company known for being rather archaic in how it responds to new ideas. So the patch team is new - and they're just demonstrating the lack of an official process in that. It's a stark contrast to Capcom with SFV, where competitive balance was the goal from the start, and we have 16 characters all quite playable.

Second thought: that someone on the testing team just got really salty after some D3 Gordo traps, and vowed to never let buffs through for the character lol

 

[SalsaSavant]

Sometimes, I think the lack of buffs might be a case of MvC3 Jill...
We're balanced or even OP, but because of something the devs know that we haven't figured out yet...and soon they'll nerf that because of our theoretical power, and we'll all be mad.

Or, like Soul Train said...they saw Heavy+Projectile+Good recovery and said "No buffs ever!"

 

[TMJ_Jack]

I had that same thought the other day. Samurai gave Dedede some super-secret, game-breaking tech that we've failed to discover that actually makes Dedede S Tier. Think about it. "already perfect." It makes sense. I mean, Samurai went out of his way to voice Dedede, so there must be something we're missing.

 

[OverlordZelos]

I honestly think dedede only needs like 5 things changed

1. Jab 1 and 2 link better

2. dash attack start up reduced by 5 frames

3.drastically reduced endlag on gordo throw

4. make jet hammer stronger then kirbys' on all acounts(i mean he has a jet engine inside his hammer and its still weaker then kirby's hammer somehow!?)

5.drastically reduced kbg on down throw for combos at high percents

and thats it really.

 

[OverlordZelos]

and if you want a bonus put it in brawl up-tilt

 

[Soul Train]

I honestly think dedede only needs like 5 things changed

1. Jab 1 and 2 link better

2. dash attack start up reduced by 5 frames

3.drastically reduced endlag on gordo throw

4. make jet hammer stronger then kirbys' on all acounts(i mean he has a jet engine inside his hammer and its still weaker then kirby's hammer somehow!?)

5.drastically reduced kbg on down throw for combos at high percents

and thats it really.

All of the above pretty much summarize the issues outlined in the patch request video: better close range threats (Jab 1 improved), better ability to compete long range (gordo endlag improved), and a way to threaten shields (downthrow kbg reduced).

Jet Hammer doing more damage = it breaking shields at a full charge, something we've asked for awhile. Sooo yep.

Otherwise, and I'll say this to everyone - please let us know if you have any other creative ways to get this message heard. Most of the big NIntendo twitter accounts frankly aren't going to respond to anything; how can we get this heard by Nintendo?

 

[Silly Symphony]

Otherwise, and I'll say this to everyone - please let us know if you have any other creative ways to get this message heard. Most of the big NIntendo twitter accounts frankly aren't going to respond to anything; how can we get this heard by Nintendo?

How about a video not from a Dedede perspective, but from the perspective of several high and mid tiers, how they have no trouble getting in on dedede, whatever he does.

Show off for example how a Falcon, Sonic, Zero Suit, Sheik, Toon Link, Game & Watch, Duck Hunt just don't have to respect Dedede. All they have to do is camp out, and get in whenever he makes a move. In short, a video that shows off how laughably disrespectful they can be against a Dedede.

I believe such a video can get viral, with the proper connections.

 

[SalsaSavant]

I know someone who works for NOA. He's low level, so he doesn't have the influence we need, but...

He's assured me that they listen, even when it doesn't seem like they do. He told me they're very aware of what fans are saying, they just don't always respond.

 

[randomguy1235]

I know someone who works for NOA. He's low level, so he doesn't have the influence we need, but...

He's assured me that they listen, even when it doesn't seem like they do. He told me they're very aware of what fans are saying, they just don't always respond.

Any chance he can bring attention to our community efforts/plight?

 

[OverlordZelos]

All of the above pretty much summarize the issues outlined in the patch request video: better close range threats (Jab 1 improved), better ability to compete long range (gordo endlag improved), and a way to threaten shields (downthrow kbg reduced).

Jet Hammer doing more damage = it breaking shields at a full charge, something we've asked for awhile. Sooo yep.

Otherwise, and I'll say this to everyone - please let us know if you have any other creative ways to get this message heard. Most of the big NIntendo twitter accounts frankly aren't going to respond to anything; how can we get this heard by Nintendo?

I would be alright with jet hammer damage wise as it is only if it was a sheild breaker type move at all stages.
One can dream though

 

[Soul Train]

Any chance he can bring attention to our community efforts/plight?

SalsaSavant better yet - could you ask him for advice? Specifically: what would be the best way to get 1. our passion and appreciation for the King and 2. D3's issues to Nintendo? IE: tweeting someone in particular, writing a letter, getting a petition, what would work best?

 

[Dar4]

The most likely reason is just the dynamic of early 3DS days: the heavies shined then, and you saw a lot of nerfs. Bowser lost his SideB suicide kill, and Dedede got nerfed. Then the game started developing, and the slower characters fell behind - and Nintendo obviously tried to counteract that with many and very specific buffs to Bowser, Charizard, Ganondorf, and DK. ...just not D3.

As to why they never included D3 on that list, I have two thoughts. First, that Nintendo looked at D3 and was like "heavy + projectile + recovery = no buffs ever" and left things there. Ignoring all the, you know, glaring character holes and weaknesses that have just become worse over time. And that's sad. It's so obvious that the patch team put much time into specific nerfs/buffs throughout all patches - killing the Hoo Hah, giving a killthrow for Zard/Bowser, carefully removing Luigi's Dthrow->tornado kill, etc. All very meticulously done. Someone there knows what they're doing.

Yet it's obvious that this concept of patches is new for Nintendo - a company known for being rather archaic in how it responds to new ideas. So the patch team is new - and they're just demonstrating the lack of an official process in that. It's a stark contrast to Capcom with SFV, where competitive balance was the goal from the start, and we have 16 characters all quite playable.

Second thought: that someone on the testing team just got really salty after some D3 Gordo traps, and vowed to never let buffs through for the character lol

Honestly I think Dedede hasn't been touched because they're also balancing around the casual FFA crowd. D3 is really good in FFAs and near Gannon levels of overpowered at low skill levels.

This is the same reason they haven't given sheik any significant nerfs, because she's not that good at FFAs and she's bad at low skill levels.

It sucks but that has to be why he hasn't been buffed. The notion that he hasn't been buffed because the design team doesn't undestand he's bad at 1v1 is nonsense. Nintendo is full of smart people who obviously read these boards, pay attention to the tourney scene and pay attention to tier lists. They made the game, they have a great understanding of how it works. If they were balancing the game around 1v1 only they'd had buffed him by now. There's no chance that the design team doesn't understand Dedede is bad at 1v1.

The only other explanation is they're planning to buff him, but just haven't gotten around to it yet and are planning more patches. I hope that's the real reason.

 

[SalsaSavant]

SalsaSavant better yet - could you ask him for advice? Specifically: what would be the best way to get 1. our passion and appreciation for the King and 2. D3's issues to Nintendo? IE: tweeting someone in particular, writing a letter, getting a petition, what would work best?

He isn't really in a position to promote anything. It's not like he works with Reggie or Bill or anyone associated with making the games...and I have a standing thing with him that I won't be that annoying guy who asks him stuff he can't answer all the time.

Still,once isn't "all the time", now is it? I'll see.

 

[Putuk]

Honestly I think Dedede hasn't been touched because they're also balancing around the casual FFA crowd. D3 is really good in FFAs and near Gannon levels of overpowered at low skill levels.

This is the same reason they haven't given sheik any significant nerfs, because she's not that good at FFAs and she's bad at low skill levels.

It sucks but that has to be why he hasn't been buffed. The notion that he hasn't been buffed because the design team doesn't undestand he's bad at 1v1 is nonsense. Nintendo is full of smart people who obviously read these boards, pay attention to the tourney scene and pay attention to tier lists. They made the game, they have a great understanding of how it works. If they were balancing the game around 1v1 only they'd had buffed him by now. There's no chance that the design team doesn't understand Dedede is bad at 1v1.

The only other explanation is they're planning to buff him, but just haven't gotten around to it yet and are planning more patches. I hope that's the real reason.

Do people really play FFAs a bunch?

From my casual experience back when Melee was new, we almost always played 1v1s. It's not like it's that common that many people are around all the time for large FFAs.

How about a video not from a Dedede perspective, but from the perspective of several high and mid tiers, how they have no trouble getting in on dedede, whatever he does.

Show off for example how a Falcon, Sonic, Zero Suit, Sheik, Toon Link, Game & Watch, Duck Hunt just don't have to respect Dedede. All they have to do is camp out, and get in whenever he makes a move. In short, a video that shows off how laughably disrespectful they can be against a Dedede.

I believe such a video can get viral, with the proper connections.

I like this idea. "Disrespect montages" are fairly popular among this community it would seem.
I only worry that people would mostly like it because some of the more popular characters can beat up Dedede (who is probably one of the lesser popular characters on the roster).

 

[Silly Symphony]

I like this idea. "Disrespect montages" are fairly popular among this community it would seem.
I only worry that people would mostly like it because some of the more popular characters can beat up Dedede (who is probably one of the lesser popular characters on the roster).

Which is why I added Duck Hunt and Mr. Game & Watch, they too are niche characters but they too have no trouble toying with Dedede. Also, these are just suggestions. I think any character that's reasonably fast or has a projectile can do this.

 

[Putuk]

Which is why I added Duck Hunt and Mr. Game & Watch, they too are niche characters but they too have no trouble toying with Dedede. Also, these are just suggestions. I think any character that's reasonably fast or has a projectile can do this.

So we should use these characters (correct me if I'm wrong):


Also how should we go about making a montage that demonstrates Dededes flaws?
Should we just ask other boards to save recordings of them demolishing DDD with ease?