Let's face it, Brawl = Next Mario Party, huge dissapointment

[Thingy Person]

If some people are allowed to bless the game after just a day or two, then wtf are people not allowed to curse it ?

Also the op said he had played the japanese game.. which has been out for, you know, a whole month!

The blessing was based upon the fun factor. There has been no widely accepted blessing of Brawl on a competitive level.
This guy, however, is cursing it already.

 

[Doomgaze]

There has been no widely accepted blessing of Brawl on a competitive level.

And for a good reason.

 

[naevorc]

Wow, claiming its not trolling? Lame. Troll. This same topic has been done at least 100 times, stfu now.

 

[Heroic]

I have two questions for you:
1) Do you think Bowser and Ganon benefits from not having L-cancelled airials, and 2) do you think melee would have been more balanced without wavedashing?

If the answer to either of those question is yes then I don't think you know what you are rambling about.

question 1: They do not benefit from the lack of l cancelling, obviously, as no other character benefits from it anyway. This is beside the point. Even Ganon has aerial that have next to no lag upon landing ( his Nair and up air). In Bowser's case, it is is Nair only. It is fine like that, because it makes the game more balnced (Ganon and Bowser are as good as the rest of the cast. Most of them, anyway)

question 2: And yes, melee would have been more balanced without wavedashing, though it would have still been not balanced. Proof: Shine combos. I don't think I need to expand more on the subject.
That is exactly what I said brawl would be: less balanced if it had wavedashes.

 

[OrlanduEX]

So. Much. Fail.

One person expresses displeasure with the game and everyone with a post count less than 200 calls him a troll as if it's wrong to not like it because Sakurai is some kind of angelic being who can do no wrong.

I imagine there are going to be way more posts like this when the game comes out. The fanboys are just too wrapped up in their dreams to even acknowledge the possibility that Brawl might not be as fun or as competitive as Melee

question 1: They do not benefit from the lack of l cancelling, obviously, as no other character benefits from it anyway. This is beside the point. Even Ganon has aerial that have next to no lag upon landing ( his Nair and up air). In Bowser's case, it is is Nair only. It is fine like that, because it makes the game more balnced (Ganon and Bowser are as good as the rest of the cast. Most of them, anyway)

question 2: And yes, melee would have been more balanced without wavedashing, though it would have still been not balanced. Proof: Shine combos. I don't think I need to expand more on the subject.
That is exactly what I said brawl would be: less balanced if it had wavedashes.

Wrong and wrong.
1) Not all characters have air moves that have no lag or lag that you can cancel. See Snake and Ike.
And what about those characters who have almost no lag on any of their air moves like Pit? These have a great advantage over slower characters who are bogged down by lag on all except one or two moves. This unbalance would have been rectified by l-canceling.

2) ROFL. Shine combos didn't make the game unbalanced. In fact, without wavedashing Luigi, Mewtwo, Ice Climbers and a number of other characters would have been s*** tier and wouldn't be able to compete with the high tier.
PROTIP: Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, and Peach would STILL be top tier without wave dashing. The other characters would just be even crappier.

 

[Roy-Kun]

If Brawl is not as good as Melee, that means automatic failure?

You know, that's a pretty pathetic excuse for those who cannot win without using the Wavedash.

 

[Doomgaze]

question 1: They do not benefit from the lack of l cancelling, obviously, as no other character benefits from it anyway. This is beside the point. Even Ganon has aerial that have next to no lag upon landing ( his Nair and up air). In Bowser's case, it is is Nair only. It is fine like that, because it makes the game more balnced (Ganon and Bowser are as good as the rest of the cast. Most of them, anyway)

question 2: And yes, melee would have been more balanced without wavedashing, though it would have still been not balanced. Proof: Shine combos. I don't think I need to expand more on the subject.
That is exactly what I said brawl would be: less balanced if it had wavedashes.

The charactesr that benefit from L-cancelling the most are undoubtedly slower characters because it leaves more room for them to maneuver aroud without getting endlessly punished. If L-cancelling indeed was in, characters such as Samus would not have benefitted from it AS MUCH because her attacks are already fast. Do you think ganon and bowser are balanced characters now? Wow. For how long have you had the game?

Do you really think that if melee didnt have wavedashing, it would have been a more balanced game? Really? Didn't shiek alone prove you just the opposite?
But wait, what if wavedashing hypothetically was out, do you think characters such as G&W, Mewtwo, Luigi, Ice climbers et.c. would have been better? There are characters above all these characters in the tier list with not as good or not as useable wavedashes (Peach being a pretty good example).

 

[OrlanduEX]

If Brawl is not as good as Melee, that means automatic failure?

You know, that's a pretty pathetic excuse for those who cannot win without using the Wavedash.

*facepalm*

Just another casual troll.

He never said Brawl was "absolute failure" and he wasn't even talking about wave dashing specifically. YOU brought that up.

He's just saying that he is disappointed with Brawl. Is this wrong?!

 

[e319]

I DON'T BELONG HERE!!!!! I uhhh... don't think about Brawl the way anybody here does. I'M JUST GOING TO HAVE FUN WITH BRAWL

 

[Roy-Kun]

*facepalm*

Just another casual troll.

He never said Brawl was "absolute failure" and he wasn't even talking about wave dashing specifically. YOU brought that up.

He's just saying that he is disappointed with Brawl. Is this wrong?!

Oh, then I shouldn't consider the username?

Hm...

 

[legendofme]

If it's a fun game, where's the problem? If you expected it to be the best game ever, then you'll always be disappointed because there is no perfect game. Period.

And another complainer about wavedashing being gone. Seriously, if you opened up more for new things to come, because that's what Nintendo is about the most, new things, you wouldn't be as disappointed right now. And all players have been downgraded to match evenly? It's called balance, and sorry to say, pal, but that was something the fans desired the most because frankly, some characters in Melee WERE owerpowered.

So either you suck it up or don't come to these boards again. Sell your copy, so that someone who didn't get it yet and REALLY wants it gets to have fun.

EDIT: And I can guarantee you that I'm MUCH more of a Nintendo fangirl than you are a Nintendo fanboy.

Except Nights into Dreams and Symphony of the night those are perfect games. Too perfect for any of you jerkwads.

 

[PityLord]

Why people cant enjoy the new game and discover new things gradually? Even Yuna stated that he grew to like it by givving it a chance and discovering things slowly.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

Sup troll, would you happen to be Embryo from SRK again?

 

[Unknownlight]

-The game is so slow now that its almost a joke

In your opinion...

-Skill components have been removed (Wavedashing, L-Cancelling, etc.)

Too bad...get over it.

-All the players have been downgraded and Nintendo didn't want anyone to dominate.

I'm not sure if you know how fighting games work, but the roster is supposed to be balenced. No character is supposed to dominate. Of course, their plan didn't work, because characters like Marth still dominate.

-You grab the edge practically every time, its like magnetic almost

Then jump off the edge and attack the recoverer. Characters have better recoveries now so that you're able to do that.

-Great combo's = gone because of slow free fall

Then try High Gravity mode. Sakurai included all this stuff for a reason.

-You can airdodge continuously

What's your point?

Spoiler

10 char

 

[Deleted member]

Look at his name. Nothing to see here folks.

Nintendo di not 'fail' with Brawl, anyway. Sure, it might not be 100% perfect, but if they can slowly make the games better and better in every installment, then one day it'll darn near enough be.

 

[danio13]

Wth Is Wavedashing???!!

 

[Roy-Kun]

Look at his name. Nothing to see here folks.

Nintendo di not 'fail' with Brawl, anyway. Sure, it might not be 100% perfect, but if they can slowly make the games better and better in every installment, then one day it'll darn near enough be.

Another person that thinks like me.

It's nice to see this kind of people.

 

[Cubemario]

An obvious troll.

 

[danio13]

Wth Is Wavedashing???!!

 

[Dark_Ermac]

I'm actually GLAD it's more like the N64 version.

I completely sucked at Melee because all of my mains were killed with the Nerf Bat and the 4 F*ckers, as I like to call them, were more overpowered than Pikachu, Kirby, and Fox from the 1st game combined.

All I need is my good mains back, and it seems that they are (almost) back on top of their game.

 

[Unknownlight]

Wth Is Wavedashing???!!

I'm going to quote myself, since I already answered this to someone before.

It's an advanced technique that pros use. It's where you do a short-hop, then immediately directional airdodge into the ground. The end result is you slide across the ground. It's good for spacing, speed, getting off platforms with no landing lag, edgehogging, and as well using ground moves and smash attacks while moving, plus a bunch of other stuff.

Also: It was removed from brawl.

 

[INs4niTY-]

ZZZzzzZZZ, when will people stop whinning? they play it 1 day and now its crap? ******.

 

[maxieman]

yay my post count is over 100

 

[curiousthoughtsbear]

I wonder how much of this perceived slowness in Brawl comes from the game being slower and how much comes from people sucking at the game because it's only been out for a few hours. Do you think we played Melee as fast as we do now when it was first released? Of course not! Brawl will get faster as people get better at it. Will it be as fast as Melee? Probably not, but is that really such a big deal? It's not like slower automatically means less skillful.

Actually slower DOES mean less skillful. Larger windows of opportunity require less "on the fly" thinking which characterize competitive video games. The combination of exploiting openings with the appropriate move or set of moves and being able to react and plan ahead quickly lends itself to the term, SKILL.

I.E. Chess versus Tennis. Smash ain't no chess game so making it slower just reduces the general level of gameplay and the pace of competition.


P.S. Brawl sucks, even Joe Bushman says so and he's been playing it for a while now. And if you don't know who Joe Bushman is then don't even bother to reply. Oh and so do Jman and Hax.

 

[abectevolution]

I disagree. I think it's even possible that the slower a game like this is, the more skill is requried to kick major *** at it. It's all a matter of openion and like music and art, a pro gamer should be able to take any game and kick *** at it regardless.

 

[curiousthoughtsbear]

LOL, you disagree. SO WHAT, provide a decent counter-argument. Maybe an example ?!?!

 

[abectevolution]

How about... I kicked *** at Melee, and I also kick *** at Brawl. Regardless of the speed, I have seen tons of skill back and forth between me and opponents over the net. I realize that the game seems slower because it's more floaty and such.... but when I am in the heat of battle with 4 other really good players, I don't even notice or think about the speed. I just have fun.

Tons of advanced techniques have already been discovered for this game and you can find them anywhere online. The possibility of skill is still here, if not more so than before... it is just presenting itself in different forms.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I'm actually GLAD it's more like the N64 version.

I completely sucked at Melee because all of my mains were killed with the Nerf Bat and the 4 F*ckers, as I like to call them, were more overpowered than Pikachu, Kirby, and Fox from the 1st game combined.

All I need is my good mains back, and it seems that they are (almost) back on top of their game.

LOL. I still can't understand why people are saying that. Brawl is like the opposite of Smash 64.

In Smash 64, all attacks have massive hit stun and block stun. The high hit stun means that infinite combos abound and aren't even that hard to do.
The high block stun means that most attacks are very safe on block, so the attacking player is usually at a great advantage.

In Brawl however, there is very low hit stun and block stun.
Low hit stun means almost no combos in any form.
Low block stun means that characters recover from blocking faster than the person who is attacking. Thus most attacks are unsafe on block and the DEFENDING player has the advantage. Say hello to turtling.

In Smash 64, everyone except Kirby and Pikachu had a pretty crappy recovery. It was easy as hell to get killed by a simple throw at like 60%.

In Brawl however, everyone's recovery is godly. Just tilt towards the stage to make it back in most cases. You don't even need to up-b a lot of the time.

Please tell me how Smash 64 and Brawl are anything alike besides the fact that both involve Nintendo characters smashing each other off screen.

 

[curiousthoughtsbear]

Hmm....did I say brawl doesn't require skill ? Nope, dun think so. However I did note that the series has taken a step BACK in competitive gaming.

So you kicked *** at melee. Best tourney placing ? What tournies, what state, who was the competition.

Oh and online play is actually much slower. Whereas melee operates at 60 fps, I'm POSITIVE that brawl operates at a much slower frame rate normally not taking into consideration the inherent latency of the server. BTW Halo operates at 30 fps on what is considered the best online server.....nintendo's wifi comes nowhere close, unfortunately.

 

[abectevolution]

I have to agree. Brawl isn't like either of the previous games.

 

[Yomanz]

Omg guys I guess we should all take back our brawls cause its sooo bad.

 

[abectevolution]

Maybe I don't qualify as a pro player because I never played in a tournament, but I could care less what your guidelines are. I played the game a ton with my friends which is what I enjoy most with games like these.

You said slower equals less skill. I was disagreing with you. Is it really that hard to understand?

I'm sorry if your connection sucks and you can't play online, but I have played a few matches and I haven't experienced a second of lag.

The fact is, the game is fun and is very open to advanced skill. Playing a game is about having fun. This game is tons of fun and when I am playing it against other people, I don't think about petty things like how fast it may or may not be.

I'm not going to waste my time going back and forth about this, I would much rather play the game. And if I didn't like the game, I would be doing something productive instead of fighting with people over the internets about it.

 

[TelQuel]

To be fair my initial impressions of melee during the first couple months it was out was that it was less skilled than the N64 version because although there were more moves there was less emphasis on timing. But in the end it really just turned out that I had no conception of the potential of the game. I am sure that some advanced techniques will crop up over time but people haven't had long to mess around with it.

That being said I do feel somewhat similarly. The game looks very fun but I also thought of mario party. A great amount of fun to be had by you and your friends but definitely lacks the same competitive nature of Melee. Some of the combos in melee were just amazing. Taking the time to learn to use fox properly made that game so fun. Learning all the crazy captain falcon combos and short hopping that sick knee gave me an almost ungodly pleasure. There is nothing like defeating a rival with something humiliating like a nice short-hopped knee to the face. Anyway, I too will find it hard to accept that so much of what made melee as competitive as it is seems to be gone. I fear that they have tried to make the game to accessible to all players. Smash was definitely historically a game of elitists and this forum has shown that time and time again.

I think it is funny how many people are hating on this guy just for voicing his disappointment with Brawl. I will be honest. I think time will show that although a lot of people bought Brawl and it was a big bruhaha at launch I doubt it will have the replay value of melee. The mechanics just seem a bit more clunky. Of course I have always been a fox player so...

 

[ComradeCanada]

A consistently better player will still consistently win.
Why is it not competitive again?

 

[curiousthoughtsbear]

No, but don't expect the competitive scene to last nearly as long as melee. In fact, Melee is still growing as it is. Y'all defectors will be coming back sooner or later. How long has it been since melee came out ? Nearly a decade, eh. Wow, name another competitive game that's seen itself through so many years and has grown faster in its later years then earlier on.

Yah brawl's fun, but on a superficial level. It gets boring the longer you play it, not more intense.

I.E. When playing melee it starts to get interesting a 1/2 hour in. With brawl, I just feel like taking a nap after playing for a 1/2 hour.

 

[Vijin]

Actually slower DOES mean less skillful. Larger windows of opportunity require less "on the fly" thinking which characterize competitive video games. The combination of exploiting openings with the appropriate move or set of moves and being able to react and plan ahead quickly lends itself to the term, SKILL.

I.E. Chess versus Tennis. Smash ain't no chess game so making it slower just reduces the general level of gameplay and the pace of competition.


P.S. Brawl sucks, even Joe Bushman says so and he's been playing it for a while now. And if you don't know who Joe Bushman is then don't even bother to reply. Oh and so do Jman and Hax.

Slower doesn't mean less competitive; it's simply different. Compare Street fighter 3rd strike and MVC2. And I don't care who those people are... what's the matter, can't think for yourself?

 

[abectevolution]

Exactly, it's different, not worse. It's just a different game. If you are a good gamer, you can find skill and technique in any mulitplayer game and excell at it.

 

[soviet prince]

I played the game and I don't feel that there is anything bad about the game.

 

[Mama]

I bet this guy hasn't even played it. I got mine at midnight and I haven't gone to sleep yet and I play Smash very competitively. The games just **** good. And I have absolutely no problems adjusting to speed. Hell the speed difference is pretty small in my opinion. I'm not posting in threads like this anymore though. No point since the games out lol. Scrubs can go ahead and think what they want and whiners can do as they please but I have my game so I'm going back to semi absent mode and just going to look in for tactical purposes like the rest of the good players.

 

[MindGaemsFTW]

It's nice to see everyone accepting brawl, I was worried that it would be bad because of how many people flame it for being different.