Legal Stages With Our Current Codeset

[goodoldganon]

What stages do we consider legal with the Beta 4 codeset? This is really just an informational topic and stage changes should be discussed in the other thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225987

Remember, this is not a topic saying 'Port Town could be legal without the cars' this is just about the stages we CURRENTLY have. I tried separating them into Neutral and CP from a 1v1 standpoint.

Neutral

Battlefield
Final D
Yoshi's Island
Lylat
Smashville
Warioware
PS2

Counterpick

Delfino
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Pictochat
PS1
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Castle Siege
Corneria
Jungle Japes

Codes we Currently Have But Don't Have Room For

Deadland Luigi's Mansion: Neutral
Frozen Green Greens: Counterpick

Any others I forgot? If we want to start discussing stage legality and where it lies as a Neutral or Counterpick I guess we could use this topic. We should probably come up with a stage list for tournaments here soon...

 

[Ulevo]

Norfair should be placed in to banned. I'm pretty sure the majority of us can attest to that. It's filled with dangerous, random hazards, all with the possibility to cause KOs and in many circumstances are exceptionally difficult to avoid, and the stage layout favors specific characters while promoting ledge stalls.

If Halberd is to be placed as counterpick, I would assume Pictochat would as well. The stage layout itself is fine, and is presented with the same problematic features.

Yoshis Island Melee should be another one I think would be placed in to counterpick. Currently any techniques leading in to a walk off are gone excluding a few ones that are difficult to set up, and without a flat or safe plane to camp the blastzone, there is no reason to exclude this.

PS1 should be counterpick.

I'm on the fence on this one mostly, but I think I'm leaning to having Pirate Ship as counterpick too.

Also, I think we may want to consider Castle Siege and Delfino for neutral. If someome can attest against that, I'm all ears.

Someone should jump and help out in case I forgot any.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^I agree with the above changes.

Except I think Castle Siege should remain counterpick, if only because the transition phases and the second transform are walk offs, along with the 2nd transform being so **** big.

 

[Ulevo]

^^I agree with the above changes.

Except I think Castle Siege should remain counterpick, if only because the transition phases and the second transform are walk offs, along with the 2nd transform being so **** big.

The second transformation is what makes it or breaks it I think, but I can't think of a major reason as to why. The walk offs are temporary, there is platforms to avoid it, you can't stall because it's temporary, and the status provide cover from projectiles... As well as the platforms. It all seems balanced to me.

 

[goodoldganon]

Made the changes Ulevo, good call on those. I'm not sure what vBrawl considers legal, so I Google'd it and got this. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x210/Dacvak/TourneyBrawlStages.png

Saw Norfair and...ya...

I argued for Delfino to be neutral too but people said that Sharking should keep the stages as a CP. Plus, there are a few transitions that heavily favor a certain playstyle.

Castle Siege I believe was neutral because, as DS said, the 2nd stop is huge and the statues eat projectiles. That and walk offs.

EDIT: Ok, I gotta ask. Is your avatar Chaos from Sonic Adventure 1 Ulevo?

 

[CT Chia]

As of now, this is the stage list I will be using at all of my tourneys:

Neutral (with Stage Striking procedure)
* Battlefield
* Final Destination
* Smashville
* Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
* Lylat Cruise
* Pokemon Stadium 2
* Wario Ware

Counterpick
* Delfino Plaza
* Castle Siege
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Rainbow Cruise
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium
* Distant Planet
* Norfair
* Jungle Japes
* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Corneria
* Green Greens
* Onett

This is assuming the only stage codes are frozen Wario Ware and Pokemon Stadium 2, nothing else.

 

[Ulevo]

EDIT: Ok, I gotta ask. Is your avatar Chaos from Sonic Adventure 1 Ulevo?

No. That would be Lugia.

As of now, this is the stage list I will be using at all of my tourneys:

Neutral (with Stage Striking procedure)
* Battlefield
* Final Destination
* Smashville
* Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
* Lylat Cruise
* Pokemon Stadium 2
* Wario Ware

Counterpick
* Delfino Plaza
* Castle Siege
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Rainbow Cruise
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium
* Distant Planet
* Norfair
* Jungle Japes
* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Corneria
* Green Greens
* Onett

This is assuming the only stage codes are frozen Wario Ware and Pokemon Stadium 2, nothing else.

Ah, I forgot about Green Greens. That's another good counterpick now that Dedede can no longer infinite there.

Although, Onett, Norfair and Distant planet are stages you personally may want to reconsider Chibo. Your tournament however.

 

[CT Chia]

Onett I'm still on the fence about. I'm open to making it banned. I've been doing a lot of testing on it playing with different people in different matchups. I haven't come to a conclusion yet, but I'm slightly leaning towards counterpick.

Norfair I have banned in vBrawl but I see it as ok since the main problem for it in vBrawl (ledge camping) is severely reduced in Brawl+ with the no auto sweetspotting.

Distant really isn't too bad. The only thing I don't like is how fast the water pushes you down, but that's not enough to warrant a ban. It would just be better if it was slower. You can't effectively blast zone camp with the same reason you mentioned for Yoshi's Island (Melee), it has unique qualities to it good for a CP (interesting ledge setup, bouncy platforms, non-solid stage). I really didn't like it in Brawl because of the perma-walk off (except for the lil bit of rain), and auto sweetspotting for crazy sharking abilities that aren't quite as broken now.

 

[Ulevo]

Onett I'm still on the fence about. I'm open to making it banned. I've been doing a lot of testing on it playing with different people in different matchups. I haven't come to a conclusion yet, but I'm slightly leaning towards counterpick.

Norfair I have banned in vBrawl but I see it as ok since the main problem for it in vBrawl (ledge camping) is severely reduced in Brawl+ with the no auto sweetspotting.

Distant really isn't too bad. The only thing I don't like is how fast the water pushes you down, but that's not enough to warrant a ban. It would just be better if it was slower. You can't effectively blast zone camp with the same reason you mentioned for Yoshi's Island (Melee), it has unique qualities to it good for a CP (interesting ledge setup, bouncy platforms, non-solid stage). I really didn't like it in Brawl because of the perma-walk off (except for the lil bit of rain), and auto sweetspotting for crazy sharking abilities that aren't quite as broken now.

Pertaining to Norfair, you also have to consider the fact that ledges are lagless now, and a character can drop from them and just grab on to them faster than in vBrawl. Characters who can fly here are also at a huge advantage, regardless of whether or not they can in fact sweet spot the ledges with Up B. Sweet spotting is still possible as well, it just requires precision.

Distant Planets main concern is the loop effect present. I nearly three stocked BentoBox in tournament using Meta Knight and this tactic after I had just won a round leading down to the last stock, and really, it shouldn't be allowed. The permanent water prevents this from happening, but until we get this code implemented, the problem is present.

 

[CT Chia]

Pertaining to Norfair, you also have to consider the fact that ledges are lagless now, and a character can drop from them and just grab on to them faster than in vBrawl. Characters who can fly here are also at a huge advantage, regardless of whether or not they can in fact sweet spot the ledges with Up B. Sweet spotting is still possible as well, it just requires precision.

Yes sweetspotting is still possible, but you have to time the height of it, meaning starting lower down (think Marth's upB, you have to wait till ur much farther down to sweetspot it). The extra time required to drop down to time a sweetspot gives the opponent plenty of time to hug the ledge they are going for, which would result in the camper getting edgehogged and dieing. Flying characters aren't at any more of an advantage in Brawl+ since double jumping is slow compared to the auto sweetspot in Brawl and opponents can easily jump out to intercept them.

Distant Planets main concern is the loop effect present. I nearly three stocked BentoBox in tournament using Meta Knight and this tactic after I had just won a round leading down to the last stock, and really, it shouldn't be allowed. The permanent water prevents this from happening, but until we get this code implemented, the problem is present.

Distant Planet's loop effect is nothing like ummm.... Spear Pillar (frozen), mainly since there is no ground on the bottom part. There are ways around it, and you're citing one specific tourney occurrence against someone who might not have known how to deal with it bad. It's like when Inui SD'd twice in a tourney set on Rainbow Cruise so now he wanted to ban the stage at his tourneys. Single occurrence led to a stage most ppl deemed good to being banned. Distant Planet needs more testing until it can be banned IMO.

 

[leafgreen386]

Chibo, pick fox or falco (although other characters can also do this), and get on the left edge. Now, drop and sideB to the other ledge. I forget if you have to double jump, but you can grab the ledge without going above the stage (in fact fox's recovery sweetspots below the ledge to begin with, so... yeah). You can do this to just run back and forth between the two sides whenever someone tries to chase after you. Throw in sporadic lasers and you have a safe and easy way to build up damage that some characters have no way to deal with.

Now, as for delfino and castle siege... No matter how much I love delfino, I think the stages interfere with play a little too much for a neutral. The stage transforming can put you in very awkward situations at times, and some of the transformations themselves are questionable. I think that just a level 1 castle siege could make neutral just fine (which we don't have a code for at this time), but the whole stage would probably be better left to counterpick, as well.

 

[CT Chia]

if its relying on grabbing that edge, couldnt u just grab it and it stops em? lol
(im not sure though since i havnt tested it)
if anything i was more worried of chars with multiple jumps like mk chillin down there

 

[leafgreen386]

Chibo, the problem is that he can just keep switching between the two ledges every time you try to go after him. Slower characters will have zero chance of catching him making it an unwinnable matchup, regardless of how skilled the opposing player is.

 

[Ulevo]

Chibo, the problem is that he can just keep switching between the two ledges every time you try to go after him. Slower characters will have zero chance of catching him making it an unwinnable matchup, regardless of how skilled the opposing player is.

Essentially what Leaf said.