Ledgehop Bair/Nair Aerial Interrupt

[schmooblidon]

http://gfycat.com/GiganticFakeGoldenretriever

Found a ledgehop AI (Aerial Interrupt) with Falcon. Both Bair and Nair work pretty much identical, bair is probably way easier to perform though.

0 - CliffWait 0
1 - Drop
2 - DoubleJumps towards stage
12 - Bair/Nair
13 - Land (autocancel)
17 - Can now move/attack
30 - Tangible

Maximum 13 intangible actionable frames

In comparison a perfect ledgedash grants 8 intangible actionable frames

There are many setups that work, here are the useful ones

BAIR
DoubleJump on Frame # | Bair on Frame # | Act on Frame # | Maximum Intangible Actionable Frames

2 | 12 | 17 | 13 (gif)

FastFall
3 | 14 | 19 | 11
3 | 15 | 20 | 10
3 | 16 | 21 | 9
3 | 17 | 22 | 8

No FastFall
3 | 13 | 18 | 12
3 | 14 | 19 | 11
4 | 14 | 19 | 11
4 | 15 | 20 | 10
5 | 15 | 20 | 10
5 | 16 | 21 | 9
5 | 17 | 22 | 8
6 | 16 | 21 | 9
6 | 17 | 22 | 8
7 | 17 | 22 | 8

NAIR
DoubleJump on Frame # | Nair on Frame # | Act on Frame # | Maximum Intangible Actionable Frames

2 | 12 | 17 | 13

FastFall
3 | 14 | 19 | 11
3 | 15 | 20 | 10
3 | 16 | 21 | 9

No FastFall
3 | 13 | 18 | 12
4 | 14 | 19 | 11
5 | 15 | 20 | 10
5 | 16 | 21 | 9
6 | 16 | 21 | 9
6 | 17 | 22 | 8
7 | 17 | 22 | 8

You can also use this tech to get into a high platform by Fullhop>DoubleJump>Bair/Nair when you are about halfway through the platform.

 

[DMG]

This seems off from Melee. From Kadano's post, it sounded like Falcon had 15 frames instead of 13 in Melee, and his perfect/optimal ledge dash gave him 10 instead of 7? I'm guessing ECB isn't as wonky as Melee?

For comparison, Kadano's post: http://smashboards.com/threads/kadano’s-perfect-marth-class—advanced-frame-data-application.337035/page-20#post-16761069

(Hope it links properly)

 

[schmooblidon]

Oh it's still definitely wonky, but it's just wonky in different areas. The airdodge ECB pattern for I think every character in PM seems designed so they can do perfect wavelands, where it has an immediately downward extension. But it kinda hurts their ledgedashs, but then improves some ledgejumpdashes.

Falcon's Bair AI in melee is super janky, it only works after grabbing the ledge at the apex of your up-b, or doublejump. This is to manipulate the ECB to shrink. His Bair ECB pattern in PM is less janky in that respect, as the extension is large and doesn't require specific manipulation to get something from it.

There is still ECB manipulation in PM, I've found some with Yoshi so far, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as melee was, or good depending how you look at it.

Edit:oops his ledgedash can actually get 8 intangible frames in pm, my bad

 

[DMG]

Yeah I remember some of the weird stuff you had to do with Falcon or Ganon to get a favorable ECB, tricking the game before it refreshed or something. Ty for this though, will def be something to practice in PM then.

 

[5eb]

Thanks for this! To the lab we go!