Learning ZSS (vids inside)

[Zankoku]

Hi, I've been in more or less a love-hate sorta cycle with ZSS, so I want to really figure out how to play her. : P

Thanks in advance.

Newer December vids
vs SamuraiPanda (Olimar)
vs levitas (Marth)
vs SCOTU (Meta Knight)

December vids
vs Omniswell (King Dedede)
vs Omniswell (Diddy Kong)
vs SCOTU (Ike)
vs levitas (ROB) 1
vs levitas (ROB) 2
vs levitas (Meta Knight)
vs SCOTU (Fox)
vs SCOTU (Meta Knight)

November vids
vs SCOTU (Sheik)
vs SamuraiPanda (Pokémon Trainer)
vs Anther (Lucario)

 

[Adapt]

I don't have time right now to offer more than a couple pointers. Maybe later.

- You over use dair. I find it useful when you are up above and you want to punish a laggy attack, but you seemed to use it a bit too often.
- Dsmash on the edge-->stage spike! You have a perfect opportunity against Anther
- you used flip-jump too early several times, and don't forget about the flipstool
- dont be afraid to throw out up-B more often when they are above you

I'll check the october vids later.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Generally, only d-air when being able to punish, or when you need to get through a Snake u-smash.

 

[ph00tbag]

You play a lot like I do, actually.

My advice: Use less dair. Don't stop using it entirely, but use it less, because it bit you in the *** a lot.

Don't follow up dsmashx2 with fsmash.

 

[Zankoku]

Thanks for the help, here's two more vids.
vs Omniswell (King Dedede)
vs Omniswell (Diddy Kong)

What am I supposed to do from a dsmash anyway?

 

[FadedImage]

F-Air at lower percents when it's difficult for them to escape the second hit, u-air if you can't seem to hit with F-Air, B-Air at high percents for KO/edgeguard.

you have a good sense of ZSS's speed, but you let it run wild. She's an amazingly fast character compared to most, and sometimes that makes us feel like we're unpunishable when we come in with our moves, but our approaches can get ***** pretty hard. Make sure to space properly, be careful with your dash attack approaches.

As for moveset use, I would suggest using more u-airs and cutting back on the b-airs. b-airs are great late in the stock when you can get KOs with them, before then, you'll just be decaying your best kill move; the damage is mediocre (only 3% more than u-air) and can't be followed up with anything. Of course, cut back on d-air and f-smash... horrible moves. I also noticed you used side-b even when your opponent was fairly close to you, you should probably stick to tilts or d-smash for situations like this, the deadzone of the side-b is unforgiving.

As for edgeguarding, don't be afraid to jump out after your opponent. In the Dedede match you jumped out after him and landed a b-air in his face for the early KO (early on dedede anyways). RAR'ing off the stage and b-airing your opponent is a great way to pick up some early kills. If the char doesn't have good recovery, it basically insures an easy edgehog, if they're close to the wall, it might just outright kill them immediately.

As for recovering, be careful dilly-dallying off the edge. If you can tether, tether immediately, don't let your opponent have time to think of ways to edgeguard you. I noticed once in the Sheik match you were foolin' around off the edge attacking no one and got shamelessly edge hogged for it, I consider that a lesson learned. d:
postnote on recovering: the best way to cancel momentum vertically is to hold down while performing a u-air (fast falled u-air), the best way to cancel momentum horizontally is an airdodge and then down-b towards the stage.

overall, good ZSS. I really like your use of U-Smash, I've never personally been able to connect consistently with it.

keep it up!

 

[Zankoku]

Yeah, fsmash is the result of me thinking this isn't Brawl, therefore I can dash by hitting a direction and tapping A a little later. Instead I get stutter step fsmash -_-

Added some more vids.

 

[DeliciousCake]

What, when did Magical Girl Ankoku get mod?

 

[FoxyApollo]

Of course, cut back on d-air and f-smash... horrible moves.

I find F-smash unusually effective at edgeguarding. A fully charged f-smash that connects at the tip has a much stronger launch than side-b., and does so at a more horizontal angle, hence has a higher KO chance. Again it's only effective against characters with a horizontal recovery (metaknight, ike, peach etc) and the cool-down period is risky if you miss (and the opponent does not airdodge). As with other elements of ZSS, prediction is essential.

If I manage to find a way to upload some of my replays, will happily do so ASAP.

 

[Adapt]

I find F-smash unusually effective at edgeguarding. A fully charged f-smash that connects at the tip has a much stronger launch than side-b., and does so at a more horizontal angle, hence has a higher KO chance. Again it's only effective against characters with a horizontal recovery (metaknight, ike, peach etc) and the cool-down period is risky if you miss (and the opponent does not airdodge). As with other elements of ZSS, prediction is essential.

If I manage to find a way to upload some of my replays, will happily do so ASAP.

heheh.... no

the tip of the f-smash will NEVER be stronger than the tip of the side-B unless you used the side-B 10 times already. and even then it's only at high percentages

 

[DeliciousCake]

The only thing the tip of the f-smash will give you is some amazing trajectories at high percentages.

 

[Bouse]

You play a lot like I do, actually.

He runs into Ike Fsmashes?

jk

<3 the ph00t.

 

[rhoads]

I only watched 1st 3 vids but:

--I would try to introduce dtilt into your game more. When you did use it, it worked well for you. (Maybe that cuz you rarely used it....)
--Be very careful with your grabs, especially against players who can punish you hard--
Other than that you just had a few control issues with her.

Try to avoid having your back to the opponent so much. It advertises a bair and you really limit your options. well unless you b stick.... bleh

edit: downthrow is good

 

[FadedImage]

Yeah, fsmash is the result of me thinking this isn't Brawl, therefore I can dash by hitting a direction and tapping A a little later. Instead I get stutter step fsmash -_-

to do quick dash attacks like that, use c-stick down. I use it for all my dash attacks now anyways, since it won't result in stutter'd smashes and I'm used to it for boostsmashing.

 

[Bouse]

In your November videos (namely the one against Anther) you show solid spacing with your Bair; however, you use it faaaaaaar too much for it to be useful. Get used to mixing in SH Fairs and even SH Uairs. They all have their advantages.

Also, Jab Cancel. It's something I need to work into my game as well, but Snakeee has definitely proven it to be a useful tactic. Jab->Utilt is amazing.

Watch a lot of the Snakeee vids from C3, that'll give you an idea of how to play her against strong characters. Well, any of Snakeee's games are good... just check the video archives.

 

[Hence]

In your November videos (namely the one against Anther) you show solid spacing with your Bair; however, you use it faaaaaaar too much for it to be useful. Get used to mixing in SH Fairs and even SH Uairs. They all have their advantages.

Also, Jab Cancel. It's something I need to work into my game as well, but Snakeee has definitely proven it to be a useful tactic. Jab->Utilt is amazing.

Watch a lot of the Snakeee vids from C3, that'll give you an idea of how to play her against strong characters. Well, any of Snakeee's games are good... just check the video archives.

This one? XD
Sorry Snakeee, I had to do it. I favorited it because it reminds me that everyone was a noob at some point. It's those who really strive for improvement that make it to the top.

 

[Bouse]

ZSS = actually has a learning curve. Meta Knight doesn't really. So it's not surprising that close to release he would lose with a ZSS. Especially when the game was new and people were transitioning from Melee.

To be completely serious though the C3 matches are great
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBV4_pgUrOw&feature=PlayList&p=401007DADF3D6671&playnext=1&index=14

Should be able to find most of his vids through related.

 

[ph00tbag]

This one? XD
Sorry Snakeee, I had to do it. I favorited it because it reminds me that everyone was a noob at some point. It's those who really strive for improvement that make it to the top.

I remember this defining my view on who Snakeee was, and what he did as a player, and I thought he was some n00b who spammed dair and fsmash. Then I saw that he was winning tournaments, and I had trouble reconciling that with what I had seen.

Then he beat me on wifi, and I found that he was playing completely different from the way he had started.

 

[Zankoku]

3 more vids. I should probably use ZSS more often.

 

[TheRockSays]

I find F-smash unusually effective at edgeguarding. A fully charged f-smash that connects at the tip has a much stronger launch than side-b., and does so at a more horizontal angle, hence has a higher KO chance. Again it's only effective against characters with a horizontal recovery (metaknight, ike, peach etc) and the cool-down period is risky if you miss (and the opponent does not airdodge). As with other elements of ZSS, prediction is essential.

If I manage to find a way to upload some of my replays, will happily do so ASAP.

do you smoke fsmash is bar non the most wackest move in the game, if i used that move my opponent has to have 188 damage and i stunned him with down smash. Ankoku Love your Zss don't rely on the side b alot unless omniswell is gonna keep spamming neutral b with dedede, dsmash olimar alot it breaks his pikmin! he has to slow down and get some more. i could not watch the rest of the matches due to 1 bar wireless lol. Keep it up.

 

[TheRockSays]

ZSS = actually has a learning curve. Meta Knight doesn't really. So it's not surprising that close to release he would lose with a ZSS. Especially when the game was new and people were transitioning from Melee.

To be completely serious though the C3 matches are great
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBV4_pgUrOw&feature=PlayList&p=401007DADF3D6671&playnext=1&index=14

Should be able to find most of his vids through related.

out of all the videos u had to post that 1 O_o . Well Snakeee can't be perfect all the time.

 

[Adapt]

3 more vids. I should probably use ZSS more often.

I noticed one thing in the new vids, you still don't quite have her weird recovery worked out all the way yet.

In the vids vs Panda and Levitas you didn't have to be edgehogged when you had used your down-B. You could have used the flipstool on the person on the edge and just footstooled your way onto the stage. I would get into the habit of pressing your jump button after you use the down-B no matter what you are doing. You only have to press the jump button once as you are rising, and it will automatically footstool when possible.

This is really a no-lose situation, you either get the flipstool or you can cancel it into the attack or your move finishes and you grab the edge.

Alternately you could just use side-B and tether to the edge immediately and don't give them the chance to edgehog you.

The recovery issue comes up again in the 3rd vid against scotu. You should have tethered the edge and zipped up the tether immediately instead of doing the attacks and then getting edgehogged


The only other thing I really noticed is that you are getting punished for using dair a bit too much.

 

[ph00tbag]

My advice against Olimar is to throw your first two suit pieces at him, then glide toss your third and begin to pressure with what have you. On smaller levels, this can limit his Pikmin pulling.

 

[~PsykoTek~]

Nice ZSS and nice matches as well, pointers.........

Use more Up B, calm down on the NAIR unless they're doing a slow attack or you've caught them in the 2x Down Smash, and also Down Smash at the edge at every opprotuinity, Zamus has the sexiest stage spike in the game 4 a reason

 

[Zankoku]

I tried ZSS once in a tournament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GsmFY9-8Mk&feature=channel_page

 

[TheRockSays]

Ankoku great spacing game but my eyes started to bleed with so many front smashes try using your down smash more it hurts the ice climbers trying to grab you with such short range.

 

[sasook]

Nice spacing, but too many usmashes IMO. They were getting to the point where it was predictable after every dtilt, a usmash would follow. Also, when you tried to use the flipkick to get back on but missed, you should have flipstooled. It works even if the opponent is hanging on the edge.

 

[Chaco]

You were kinda of predicatable, imho. SH'd B-overs were in abundance for sure.

 

[TheRockSays]

i thought omniswell was supposed to be nice but he got owned by you no offence but then you were getting predictable with the side b Down Smash LIKE ALOT MORE.