Landing penalty true combos.

[Seagull Joe]

I was thinking we could make a thread about true combos as a result of landing penalty on characters with it. It really is a useful tactic to abuse someone's lag because it gives Wolf free punishers.

A list of characters who suffer LP would be nice.

 

[Deleted member]

From This thread KPrime made a while back:

Here's the original blog by Nothing.: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=37415
Everything I quote comes from that blog.



List of moves that give you the lag.

*The first number is the amount of frames of lag you get for a soft landing and the second number is the lag for a heavy landing.


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 2F/10F


UpB - 2F/7F


UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F


SideB - 15F/25F
DownB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/20F


UpB - 15F/36F
SideB - 15F/25F


UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F


UpB - 15F/24F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/30F


UpB (ledge snap) - 15F/5F
UpB (free fall) - 15F/30F


UpB - 15F/35F



Canceling the penalty with an aerial.
The blog says using an aerial as you land overrides the penalty which isn't completely true. You still get extra lag added to your aerial's landing lag. The amount of lag that gets added is about 35%-40% of the aerial's original landing lag. Since this a percentage increase, you really want to use your least laggiest move when you land for the safest and quickest landing.

Comparison of aerial landing lag to aerial landing lag with the penalty.

Pikachu
Nair 25F>34F
Fair 15F>21F
Bair 30F>41F
Uair 24F>33F
Dair 40F>55F

Pika's fair is the safest move as it is by far his fastest move and only adding 6 frames with the penalty. Pika's Dair with the penalty adds a massive 15 frames of lag adding up to almost a full second of lag when he lands with it. That's enough time for Ike/DDD to hit him with an fsmash. So be careful with what you land with. For some characters, sometimes it's best to just land with a soft landing instead of an aerial since it's always 15 frames.

Taking advantage of your opponents landing penalty
This is simple, all you need to do is use an attack with small knock back and that forces a landing then use whatever attack you like. The landing you get from being attacked is always heavy. Some examples of these attacks are jabs or DDD's dthrow. Here are some combos that work:
G&W - Jab > Any smash/Judgment
DDD - Dthrow > Fsmash (Ganon and Wolf only)
DDD - Dthrow > Dash attack
Luigi - Jab > UpB
Fox - Fthrow > Usmash (low percents)
Pikachu - Fthrow > Fsmash

These won't work on all characters like DDD's dthrow on light characters since it causes them to get knocked down to the floor.

 

[Semifer]

When Marth fails his UpB you can sh shine him and do a charged Dsmash afterwards (or whatever you want).

If Pikachu does random UpB stuff you can try to shine in place and if it hits combo in Fsmash/Dash grab.

If you know someone will get the lag next time he lands you can try jab to charged Dsmash.

Then there is the nair and shine stuff out of Wolfs, Falcos and Fox' SideB everyone should already know.

 

[Laem]

man wolf has it the worst of all chars
well its only 1 frame worse than marth's but still

 

[castorpollux]

man wolf has it the worst of all chars
well its only 1 frame worse than marth's but still

id rather be wolf than marth though. marth has such a hard time getting back on stage compared to wolf imo

 

[Seagull Joe]

man wolf has it the worst of all chars
well its only 1 frame worse than marth's but still

I lol'd.

id rather be wolf than marth though. marth has such a hard time getting back on stage compared to wolf imo

I agree.

Now lets get started on combos. I've seen JJ abuse landing penalty's from Falco in the past. Shine>Dash grab works if you shine Falco when he Iap's (In the non invincible part). Not sure if Shine>Dsmash combos. Confirmation?

 

[Ishiey]

It does, if you count the frames at least. Nairing Falco out of sideB is more reliable, but idk if dsmash is still guatanteed :x

 

[castorpollux]

if you shine ishieymoro out of his up B, u can combo yellow fever -> 5 dollar free lunch



though i think grabbing is the best punishment tbh unless u want to land a kill move

 

[Ishiey]

-____________________-

Agreed @ grabbing unless you can kill. You usually catch people with RCO lag when they're trying to get back from the ledge, and then a few pummels > dthrow puts them back offstage with an extra 15% :3 unless they got to tech, in which case you have something guaranteed so a win/more win type of situation Aside from that, usmash is probably my second choice.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Against Mario, Falco and maybe others, you can get free kills with Nair -> dthrow at the ledge. They won't make it back at certain % and you can get free ledgehogs early.

 

[Laem]

would nair(i presume the multihits btw, wait does that really beat falcos (2nd half of) sideb o_O) > dashgrab combo? This'd make it significantly easier to position yourself as close to the edge as possible so that the dthrow can't be teched.

 

[Choice]

nair -> dash grab is inescapeable. weak hits of nair will hit falco out of side b.