Lagless Ledge Get-Up

[FullMoon]

So MySmashCorner has given us this.

He says he doesn't know all the characters that this can be done with, so I guess some experimenting needs to be done still.

Either way, this looks pretty huge, though just how strict the timing is might make it a bit too unreliable.

 

[Ghostbone]

If people can learn to SWD consistently (Melee samus tech, have to hit one direction on frame 42 then the other on frame 43 iirc) they can learn to do this consistently lol.

 

[TTTTTsd]

On one hand this is really cool, on the other hand I kind of don't like it because it removes a lot of ledge getup punish options that would normally be present. I suppose the best way would be to just throw out a hitbox REALLY fast to answer this? I'm not sure.

Pretty cool I guess but if it really does actually remove ledge getup mixups it's gonna be a bit disheartening. Doesn't seem to be invul though so it might not.

 

[Xermo]

Would still hardly consider this game changing when it only applies to a handful of characters. Any competent edge guarder can also punish without fault with almost any attack as well.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think Pit can do it on any stage... Cool and all but it's not quite as significant for him since he can autocancel most aerials in a similar fashion.

 

[bc1910]

This isn't gamechanging, but it's really nice for the characters who can do it. Wavelanding was the premier ledge getup option in Melee and this is very similar. It will have some neat applications against people who just shield at the ledge, or hang back and try to react to ledge jumps.

At the end of the day it's another option, which is always nice. It takes your basic ledge getup options from 3 to 4.

 

[FallofBrawl]

This is nothing easy to react to. Standard get up is around 30 some frames while this cuts it down to about 18-20 (shoutouts to HorseKetchup) which can't really be reacted to in the midst of a match unless you're in the zone. If this does get super popular, ledge guard options like Ike's up smash and DDD's Gordo trap setups become more viable. Not as useful as melees since there are no invincibility frames, but it looks useful and at worst, it's another ledge get up option.

 

[Kealmir]

As cool as this looks don't count on it, I spent about 2 hours last night trying to figure it out and only did it a handful of times. The timing for this is absolutely brutal I tested several characters and the only one I could do it on battlefield without buffering a dash with was Zelda. Out of the cast he shows Marth/Lucina are hands down the easiest to pull it off.

This tech is so hard to do once in practice that it approaches near TAS levels of difficulty. It's completely unreasonable to expect in actual play due to that fact that if you miss once (and trust me you will) it leaves you incredibly open. My advice to anyone trying to use as an option is to try buffering a grab from the ledge with it, because if you don't cancel onto the ledge at least you will air dodge with enough height to act out of it.

It's a good way to practice your instant ledge grabs... though if you need to practice that, worry about learning how to ledge trump and how to defend against it first before jumping into this. It will honestly save you the frustration.

 

[Horseketchup]

Yea made a gfy of the Lucina getup, if anyone wants to break it down frame-by-frame:

http://gfycat.com/ScratchyLimitedBlackbuck

Gif is 30 fps so not exact, but the whole getup looks to take around 18-20 frames before you're free to act, though I'd assume there's a few frames of variability possible depending on character or how precise you time it. That's almost twice as fast as normal getups, which I believe are mostly in the realm of 32-35 frames.

So that's at the threshhold of being unreactable, or at least unpunishable on reaction with most options. Reaction time is average ~16 frames, factoring in 1 frame input delay I guess theoretically you could catch someone with a frame 1-3 jab or something. But there's also the fact that reaction times tend to increase a bit when there's multiple potential options to react to (this article is a good read about that btw::http://ki.infil.net/reaction.html)

On top of this it's visually hard to distinguish from any other onstage getup option at the start, so realistically you wouldn't be reacting to the very beginning of the animation but instead a little bit after. As long as it's not used too predictably, this seems like it could be a huge deal purely based on how fast it is.

 

[T0MMY]

This was around back in Brawl, I first noticed it with Pikachu on Battlefield with Brawl in 2010. I noticed it happened in this game early on, but the mechanics behind it were obscure. This video does a great job with its analysis and is key to opening a much deeper gameplay regarding recovery.
Now if only we can unravel some of the mystery behind the platform-snapping (which the video calls "platform canceling"), in Brawl it was on moving platforms (like Smashville's), except in SSB4 I've seen it happen on Battlefield and Dreamland's stationary platforms as well. This technique might be a way to find out how to do that consistently, at which point we would have some very Melee-esque "wave landing" gameplay with edges and platforms.

 

[Magik0722]

Wario has been able to do this for awhile with his bike. It seems to be the same thing but with a special move. I've been using it quite well as of late
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrVA-QKrSyA&feature=youtu.be

 

[⑨ball]

On one hand this is really cool, on the other hand I kind of don't like it because it removes a lot of ledge getup punish options that would normally be present. I suppose the best way would be to just throw out a hitbox REALLY fast to answer this? I'm not sure.

Pretty cool I guess but if it really does actually remove ledge getup mixups it's gonna be a bit disheartening. Doesn't seem to be invul though so it might not.

Don't worry. Characters are still forced to hold the ledge for a minimum of 20 frames, so it's essentially just another option under the <can't be buffered> list. It still gets negated by trumping which is what really creates the ledge getup dynamic in the first place.

 

[A Potato]

Would still hardly consider this game changing when it only applies to a handful of characters. Any competent edge guarder can also punish without fault with almost any attack as well.

I Dunno, I feel like a lot of the cast are able to do this. Hopefully this get integrated in high level competitions