lack of cuts and what it means for the roster?

[soviet prince]

some people are speculating on there not be any cuts and it's starting to look that way with the return of lucario and toon link 2 characters that were though of to be on the chopping block. My question is if there is no cute would that mean we get very few newcomers?

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Well, there's still 17 (19 counting ZSS and Sheik) veterans still not accounted for, bringing the total up to 39.

That means we would get 10 newcomers total for a 45 character roster. That's not bad.

 

[soviet prince]

it is when 6 of them is already highly probable
1-3) mac-pac,mii
4) rosalina
5) pale tuna
6) dk rep

 

[Arcadenik]

10 newcomers might not be so bad depending on who those newcomers are.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

10 newcomers is about what I expected. Whether that's the best or the worst ever depends almost entirely on if K. Rool/Ridley/Mewtwo/Lil Mac show up.

 

[Mypantisgone]

How can we know if it's "starting to look like there won't be cuts" if we won't be told who is cut ?

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I think most people would agree that Brawl had a pretty solid roster in comparison to Melee. In fact a lot of Japanese players have been requesting that Sakurai leave the roster be and just add Mewtwo and Roy. Personally I would love to see the Brawl roster untouched with the addition of Mewtwo, the newcomers revealed thus far, and at least Ridley (though I would love the inclusion of Little mac, Lip, and Saki as well). We're getting to that point where the development is getting at it's limits in character implementation anyway (or so from I have read have come to believe) so I'd rather the team focus on building more defined characters and balancing rather than see the roster continually get shaken to keep casuals interested.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

There are still Wolf, Ike and Lucas who could easily be thrown on the chopping block honestly. If we go further there's also Snake and Jigglypuff, though I doubt those two will be cut. I was expecting Lucario anyways due to his big presence in X & Y, the only big surprise reveal was Toon Link imo.

We've been warned of a low amount of newcomers since day one, and that's fine, Brawl's roster is almost perfect in itself, I'm just a bit ticked that it's looking rather slim for K. Rool and Ridley with all these rumors of Leaky 3 + Palutena + Mewtwo's likely return + Retro character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'd be fine with 10 newcomers, but if the leaky 3 and Palutena leak are included, if we only get 2 more newcomers, one being retro and one being either Ridley or Shulk.
Someone is not going to make it, but hope for more newcomers.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There are still Wolf, Ike and Lucas who could easily be thrown on the chopping block honestly. If we go further there's also Snake and Jigglypuff, though I doubt those two will be cut. I was expecting Lucario anyways due to his big presence in X & Y, the only big surprise reveal was Toon Link imo.

We've been warned of a low amount of newcomers since day one, and that's fine, Brawl's roster is almost perfect in itself, I'm just a bit ticked that it's looking rather slim for K. Rool and Ridley with all these rumors of Leaky 3 + Palutena + Mewtwo's likely return.

Ike and Lucas getting cut would be understandable, but not Wolf by any means. Considering that we did get Star Fox 64 3D, Wolf still has some representation.

 

[mimgrim]

Ike and Lucas getting cut would be understandable, but not Wolf by any means. Considering that we did get Star Fox 64 3D, Wolf still has some representation.

If we are going that route, FEA can be argued to have both indirect and direct repping of Ike. Indirect through Priam who stated he is a descendant of the Hero of the Blue Flame (this can only be Ike) and directly through Spotpass and DLC.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai said in an interview that he could add five Brawl Falco level clones at the expense of a newcomer. He wasn't very clear on what he ment by that, but it looks like we'd only be losing a newcomer or two because of returning characters.

 

[DaDavid]

Ten newcomers total? I honestly wouldn't mind that, how many do we have now, 4? So that leaves 6 for me. I don't particularly buy into the E3 leak to assuming Palutena is one that leaves 5 totally unaccounted four. Honestly I can't even know how'd I'd feel about that until we see which newcomers are in, but more specifically, how they play.

I would never have asked for any of the ones we've seen except for MAYBE Mega Man, yet I'm excited to get my hands on them all because Sakurai seems to be putting a lot of effort into making the newcomers unique and worth adding.

 

[HammerHappy]

Little bit worried with the return of Lucario. There have been TWO more gens since his introduction. The idea that they would pass a 5th or 6th gen rep or the very relevant Mewtwo (getting a new movie) almost seems like a mark of laziness. Unless they prove me wrong by adding those gen reps, but Pokemon already has a lot of reps as it is.

 

[DaDavid]

Not sure why that's 'cause for worry. If there's a new Pokemon fighter, it wouldn't necessitate the cutting of Lucario, nor would it mean that they'd be revealed before him.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Little bit worried with the return of Lucario. There have been TWO more gens since his introduction. The idea that they would pass a 5th or 6th gen rep or the very relevant Mewtwo (getting a new movie) almost seems like a mark of laziness. Unless they prove me wrong by adding those gen reps, but Pokemon already has a lot of reps as it is.

Lucario and Mewtwo are currently more prominent in Pokémon than any 5th gen or 6th gen Pokémons. The Pokémons were never chosen based on generations, but rather what's hot on Game Freak's advertisement front, and currently that's Lucario, Mewtwo and Charizard.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Brawl + Mewtwo + Roy + K. Rool + Ridley would have been prime for me. Everyone major would have been accounted for plus the melee cuts.
For this one it's the same + Little Mac. So with who we have now that would be 35 brawl + 2 melee + 4 who we have now + k Rool, RIdley and Mac = 44 characters.
Which leaves only one big surprise which may in fact be palutena. I always could be very wrong, But I so hope it's 48 characters at minimum. expectation is at least 45, hoping at least 48. Shulk....

 

[HammerHappy]

Pokemon has Pikachu, Jiggly, and Pkm Trainer. So about 6 reps counting Lucario. I think Mewtwo is still probably safe but the reintroduction of Lucario just feels bizarre to me. Why not add a more relevant Pokemon like Greninja or even Zorark? Either they didn't want to make another kit, or they will have a new gen rep and I'm totally wrong. But then Pkm would have about 8 reps. Raises a red flag for me. I feel like one of them is getting the axe.

 

[DaDavid]

Like Wariofan pointed, Lucario isn't irrelevant. In fact, Lucario is just as relevant as Greninja (who isn't really "relevant" he's just recent) and certainly more relevant than Zoroark who was just the subject of a movie and didn't become much else for Pokemon.

 

[HammerHappy]

I suppose megaevos have put some new life into both Lucario and Mewtwo. But I still have a feeling that we may lose a pkm rep. These are just paranoid suspisions.

 

[SmashBro99]

Lucario IS relevant. There have been two more generations of Pokemon, so what? It's a very popular Pokemon that is still appearing in movies (probably the anime at some point again too), and the games (plays a minor role and is a gift pokemon in X/Y), and it has a new Mega Evolution.

You mentioned Jigglypuff...the only thing it has going for it is the new Fairy type it gained, and it has been in every game so far, that's it.

Please stop using the word "relevant"

I'd love for Jiggs to get cut, but because she was in the original, that keeps her pretty safe imo, pretty stupid but meh.

 

[DaDavid]

I suppose megaevos have put some new life into both Lucario and Mewtwo. But I still have a feeling that we may lose a pkm rep. These are just paranoid suspisions.

Yeah, I understand, but we do have to consider at all times that Gamefreak/Pokemon Company has more control over which Pokemon show up and when.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

Pokemon trainer i can see not coming back especially since charizard had a big emphasis on his mega evo's and could easily go solo....Also less pokemon from gen 1 would be nice

 

[SmashBro99]

I really liked PT as he was, I can see Charizard going solo, but I'll miss Squirtle

 

[BluePikmin11]

Charizard going solo would break the purpose of the PT.
Would rather have the more unique Zoroark if Charizard has to go solo.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

Ah poor ivysaur the odd mid stage evolution out that no one cared about

 

[Luigi#1]

Gah, Mii.

ANYWAYS, I'm sure a few will be cut. Not many though. Maybe 1 or 2. 3 at max.

 

[HammerHappy]

I dont want to see Jiggs gone out of respect to 3x vets. I mean, has Starfox or F-zero had any new games since GC? Jiggly has the same right as those guys to be in it. I was expecting a 6th gen rep based off the pattern of new gen reps (I think that melee was here b4 gen 3?). Perhaps megaevos will end up being the substitute for it.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

Charizard going solo would break the purpose of the PT.
Would rather have the more unique Zoroark if Charizard has to go solo.

why not both? The essentials from gen 1 (charizard, mewtwo, pikachu) but not forgetting that there are 5 other generations of pokemon (lucario, zoroark and maybe blaziken)

 

[Deleted member]

We did get warned about a lack of newcomers. I can see where Sakurai is coming from. From Melee to Brawl, we had a ton of options to choose from. We had Wario, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Pit, and Diddy Kong; these are characters that people wanted to see in Smash for such a long time. Now, we are running out of options. We do have some notable characters left like Little Mac, King K. Rool, Ridley, Palutena, the rise of characters like Shulk and Chrom, and a return of Mewtwo.

Here's the thing: We will get cuts, Sakurai warned us about this as well. Not every character will come back. However, Lucario was a character that I thought could potentially be cut, but I was confident that it wouldn't happen. Seeing him now and see as how he was a character that people thought was on the chopping-block (as well as Toon Link) makes me think that we might get a large majority of Brawl's roster back. Say what you want about Wolf, but he definitely has some fight in him. Ike is also rather popular in my eyes, so I can't see him get cut. The only characters that I can see get cut are Snake and the Pokemon Trainer (mostly to free up time and resources).

In summary: There aren't as many characters left to possibly add in Smash. We will get a majority of Brawl's roster, but we are guaranteed to get cuts.

 

[SmashBro99]

I mean, has Starfox or F-zero had any new games since GC? Jiggly has the same right as those guys to be in it.

lolwut

Jigglypuff is an unimportant character in a major franchise that was added to Smash64 because it drew on sleeping people's faces in the anime and the japanese love it.

Fox is the main character of a Nintendo series that has been around for a very long time, don't compare him to Jiggs ever, just eww.

Falcon, tbh I'm not familiar with the F-Zero games at all, I don't know if there has been anything. If there hasn't, he still has more Smash Bros relevance than Jiggs. Even people who don't play Smash know of the "Falcon Punch". But as far as relevance of his series, yeah it could go either way for him.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

Jigglypuff seems to be in a bizarre situation, she hasn't been particularly popular or well known in her actual franchise for quite sometime but rather it's her appearances in the smash series that's keeping her alive in the public eye.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Pokemon has Pikachu, Jiggly, and Pkm Trainer. So about 6 reps counting Lucario. I think Mewtwo is still probably safe but the reintroduction of Lucario just feels bizarre to me. Why not add a more relevant Pokemon like Greninja or even Zorark? Either they didn't want to make another kit, or they will have a new gen rep and I'm totally wrong. But then Pkm would have about 8 reps. Raises a red flag for me. I feel like one of them is getting the axe.

There are some ways to reference the 6th generation through the Pokemon veterans though. First would be the mega evolutions, such as Mega Lucario or Mega Mewtwo X/Y, and if Jigglypuff returns, it would reference the new Fairy-type, to some extent anyway.

Either way you look at the story though, a Pokemon newcomer likely won't be happening outside of mega evolutions.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

While i would personally like zoroark i could see a third gen rep (more than likely blaziken) coming in if gamefreak finally delievers the ruby and sapphire remakes sometime soon.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ah poor ivysaur the odd mid stage evolution out that no one cared about

Ivysaur will always remain my favorite of the three, Venusaur is my favorite Pokémon after all. It's sad that it's the underdog, but so it is with the majority of mid evolutions. Certainly doesn't help that he's stuck in between the best of the three (Squirtle) and the most popular of the three (Charizard.)

 

[Morbi]

some people are speculating on there not be any cuts and it's starting to look that way with the return of lucario and toon link 2 characters that were though of to be on the chopping block. My question is if there is no cute would that mean we get very few newcomers?

Yes, there is obviously a direct correlation between the amount of cuts and the amount of newcomers. For instance, Sakurai stated that a roster of 39 (40 counting Mewtwo, who was almost finished) was feasible, thus expecting another 10 newcomers is a 25% increase in the roster. Obviously he isn't going to go much more than 10 newcomers as he thought 39 was feasible. Hence, we will not get as many newcomers as we got in other games (12, 14, and 18 respectively). So, in order to mitigate this detriment, we need to actually cut characters.

I always propose Pokemon Trainer, as that is a little bit more than 2 cuts for 1 slot. Replace him with Charizard, who represents everything Pokemon Trainer does (excluding the trainer aspect). Not only to you omit the gimmicks and mechanics that make people steer clear of Pokemon Trainer, but you cut the characters that are only in because Charizard is popular. This gives us room for 2 newcomers and we don't even need to touch the rest of the roster.

 

[Renji64]

It will be bs if all the brawl vets are back and melee ones get cut.

 

[Morbi]

It will be bs if all the brawl vets are back and melee ones get cut.

What do you mean by that, could you please elaborate? I am interpreting "Melee" vets as Pichu, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Young Link. The veterans that many assert are the characters being alluded to in Sakurai's statement regarding character omissions.

I mean, most Melee veterans are already confirmed to be returning, are they not? Aside from the obvious ones like Ganon and Mewtwo (who are undoubtedly in the game).

 

[Mysteltainn]

It does look a bit scary that Lucario is here before Mewtwo, but I still think that Mewtwo more or less has a spot on reserve if you ask me; he was supposed to be in Brawl after all. The Pokemon I can see in danger are parts of the Pokemon Trainer. I can potentially see them keeping Charizard and dropping the other two, but either way, I believe that the Pokemon Trainer as a whole is in much higher danger of at least getting a change or being cut completely than Jigglypuff is of being cut.

Excuse my ignorance, but are there really any other notable Pokemon to even compete for a spot other than Blaziken or Zoroark? Nothing in the other generations?

 

[The Real Gamer]

Jigglypuff seems to be in a bizarre situation, she hasn't been particularly popular or well known in her actual franchise for quite sometime but rather it's her appearances in the smash series that's keeping her alive in the public eye.

It's the same scenario with Captain Falcon as well but for whatever reason he always gets a free pass.

I don't care how irrelevant Jiggs becomes in the Pokemon universe... She along with Falcon have become staples of the Smash series.

You don't cut the veterans that have been there since the beginning. Smash just wouldn't be Smash without the pink balloon.