Lack of Brawl Villains

[Clumber]

I have seen and heard many people complain about the lack of villains currently in Brawl. If it doesn't turn out that a lot of villains are just hidden characters, then I have an explanation for this shortage. A lot of villain characters will recieve their representation through the SE as bosses, so their doesn't need to be as many playable baddies. Also, the more heros in the game, the more characters that will fight against the evil characters in SE so it will all work out since SE seems to be a major focus of the game. I personally do not agree with this strategy if it turns out that's what happens, I would rather see more villains as playable characters. What are your oppinions if this approach is being used?

 

[Atacusbebop123]

I second that. We need villains to make matchups more fun (i.e. grudge matches) and lets face it who deson't want to destroy Mario every now and again?

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I agree, more Villian's for playable.

Everyone wants to be the bad guy every once in a while. Plus, who doesn't want to fight Kirby against Ridley? Or Lucas against Claus?

 

[Speedwobbles223]

I think Kamek would be cool and original although her chances suckk.

 

[3D King]

I think Kamek would be cool and original although her chances suckk.

his, Kamek's a guy

 

[RazeveX]

so badly want black shadow for brawl...

imagine the moveset...

 

[White_Lightning]

I've said it lots of times before, but I don't mind repeating it. I believe if a series can get three or more playable representatives, one of them should be an antagonist. So far it looks like the developers agree with me because in SSBM and what's been confirmed for Brawl, each series to get at least three reps includes one villain. Ridley, Wolf, and K. Rool should make the cut, along with Masked Boy and Black Shadow if possible.

 

[Banjodorf]

Lack of villains? Yes. This is exactly why people want

-Claus
-K. Rool
-Ridley

playable.

 

[Limit]

Wolf
Ridley
K. Rool
Bowser Jr.
Dark Samus
Claus
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Mewtwo

I hate good guys

 

[shadenexus18]

I have seen and heard many people complain about the lack of villains currently in Brawl. If it doesn't turn out that a lot of villains are just hidden characters, then I have an explanation for this shortage. A lot of villain characters will recieve their representation through the SE as bosses, so their doesn't need to be as many playable baddies. Also, the more heros in the game, the more characters that will fight against the evil characters in SE so it will all work out since SE seems to be a major focus of the game. I personally do not agree with this strategy if it turns out that's what happens, I would rather see more villains as playable characters. What are your oppinions if this approach is being used?

Yep, he's right. Dedede and Bowser are no where near enough villains. Man I mean, Sakurai can atleast hook us up with anti heros, rivals, or something.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Don't expect a huge increase in villians compared to the ratio that was in Melee. In Melee, the villian ratio was 3/26 with two villians being unlockable. There has already been one truely antagonistic character added, King Dedede, and realistically I have a hard time imagining more then two more playable. As several people have mentioned, the front runners are:

Claus (2 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
King K. Rool (2 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
Ridley (4 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
Black Shadow (only one mention but, with Goroh gone, logically and realistically the only F-Zero rep left if Sakurai decides to give F-Zero another rep.)

With Sakurai adding bosses, I can guarentee that the two who don't become playable from this list will be made into them.

 

[sonicspeed 96]

Yeah more villans for Brawl!

 

[paralasalud]

i really hope there's a wtf villain
dedede doesn't even look like a villain. he looks like an old friend of kirby's.

 

[TBone06]

I agree there should be tons of villains because without a villain, there is no dispute between the protaganist and the antagonist

 

[Zuby]

I haven't ever played Smash against someone who didn't love the idea of playing as a villain. Everyone I know has tried to main Mewtwo (all have given up, finding it impossible) and everyone has mained Ganondorf for at least a short period of time. Villains are just cool.

Besides, nobody ever said that boss characters in SSE are automatically not playable. It could be that you have to defeat Ridley in SSE, then battle him as a challenger, and then he becomes playable. We just don't know.

 

[Limit]

Don't expect a huge increase in villians compared to the ratio that was in Melee. In Melee, the villian ratio was 3/26 with two villians being unlockable. There has already been one truely antagonistic character added, King Dedede, and realistically I have a hard time imagining more then two more playable. As several people have mentioned, the front runners are:

Claus (2 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
King K. Rool (2 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
Ridley (4 mentions in Sakurai's journal)
Black Shadow (only one mention but, with Goroh gone, logically and realistically the only F-Zero rep left if Sakurai decides to give F-Zero another rep.)

With Sakurai adding bosses, I can guarentee that the two who don't become playable from this list will be made into them.

Please leave your fail outside of this.

Being an extremely avid villain supporter, I won't take crap like this being fed to people who are easily bent by false logic. I'm baffled that you even think that a 3/26 ratio isn't the least bit absurd in any frame of mind. This is an imbalance that is simply dying to be corrected, as it should be, and you expect it to remain that way? What the hell...

How about instead of a misleading ratio, we try something else. PRIORITY. There is something called priority in Smash Bros - character priority to be specific. Naturally, those who are the most popular, the most well known, the most creative and iconic will deserve representation and ranking above all other possible options.

Obviously, main characters, who are often the "good guys" are chosen AHEAD of the villains due to their immediate importance over them. In SSB64, there were only 12 slots, so they chose 12 MAIN CHARACTERS from various Nintendo franchises. No room for villains. However, once Melee rolled around and the roster size was doubled, these same 12 carried over, and a few new franchises were added onto the list. But guess what, there was still some extra room for a few more characters, and so those who were next in line priority-wise (in other words - VILLAINS) were tacked onto the roster in the form of Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf. Notice this, they did not choose to add on a few more "good guys" i.e. random *** main characters and side characters from god knows which franchise that doesn't deserve representation. They chose popular, well known, creative and iconic villains who are on the level of their heroic counter-parts.

Now in Brawl, it gets even tighter this time around. With all the necessary main characters now added, let me ask you this: WHO'S NEXT? Guess what, villains. It's now time to add Nintendo's ALL STAR VILLAINS to the roster, and that means more than "just two" as you say. If anything, the number of villains in this game should be going up dramatically, and I don't know how your mentally confined logic somehow believes otherwise.

Could you imagine Brawl with a 40 character roster, and then leaving out characters like Bowser and Ganondorf? No? Well then, I guess some of those "good guys" and other unimportant side characters are going to have to take the back seat and wait their turn, because Nintendo's villains have waited theirs.

 

[PwnyRide]

Villains are...

Villains are the reason why people are playing games in first place. Everyone wants to play the bad guy sometimes (or all the time ) Lets face it, main characters are seldom cooler than the villains. In particular since Zelda needs more representation at this point in time (since we dont know the full roster) here are some possible inclusions~

Some Zelda villains i would love to see in Brawl-

Zant - How can you not love this guy? He's completely insane and deluded. Lots of options here for a decent and unique skillset. Even though he is only Gannondorf's puppet, he's just cool in his own whacky way. The question is, Masked Zant, or Unmasked Zant?

Skull Kid (Majoras Mask Ver.) - Another insane, unpredictable villain. Skillset wise, this maybe be one of the more difficult characters to make a decent skillset for, besides his obvious final smash option (crashing the moon into the stage)

Gannondorf (TP version) - In Twilight Princess, Gannondorf got an extreme makeover. For me, hands down, he takes the cake for the best looking villain, EVER. Lets face it, he's pretty much in. Theres nearly no denying it. Why Sakurai would not unclude him is beyond me. And if he includes Shiek and not Gannondorf...

 

[Limit]

Skull Kid (Majoras Mask Ver.) - Another insane, unpredictable villain. Skillset wise, this maybe be one of the more difficult characters to make a decent skillset for, besides his obvious final smash option (crashing the moon into the stage)

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3637204&postcount=998

 

[PwnyRide]

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3637204&postcount=998

Excellent job

 

[Banjodorf]

I dont see how they can leave out K. rool, Ridley, or Claus

Ridley is about 95% likely, Claus and K. Rool are very likely too. Wolf is a maybe, but I forsee him being way too much like fox.

If Claus was in, I might actually enjoy playing a character from the Mother games, because the moveset in the claus thread looks good, and Claus just looks bad@$$.

K. Rool is also a must, hes popular, hes a villain, and lets face it, DK has been underrepresented for a long time now, and deserves another rep to go with DK and Diddy

Ridley -See K. Rool, except replace Dk and Diddy's names with Samus.

 

[Crownjo]

wow people are still thinking certain characters will still be in?

jesus and the game is so close to release.

 

[White_Lightning]

Based on your post, you seem to already know the full roster, care to share it with us? Or are you just one of those people who actually believes the 23 characters shown on the Dojo are all we're getting?

 

[Shuma]

I only see one shoe in villain, and that's Ganondorf. Of course you all know i expect Ridley to be in.

 

[shinnok-fan64]

The villian i want in the most is Ridley; if he made it in, i wouldn't care about other villians.

But if they could have Ridley AND Claus, K.Rool, and Skull Kid playable, i'd be more happy.

 

[Clumber]

I haven't ever played Smash against someone who didn't love the idea of playing as a villain. Everyone I know has tried to main Mewtwo (all have given up, finding it impossible) and everyone has mained Ganondorf for at least a short period of time. Villains are just cool.

Besides, nobody ever said that boss characters in SSE are automatically not playable. It could be that you have to defeat Ridley in SSE, then battle him as a challenger, and then he becomes playable. We just don't know.

Enemies like Petey Piranha or Rayquaza that are bosses in SE do not look like they're going to become playable. There may be some characters that you can obtain like that, but I think they will have less playable villains in favor of the giant boss battle villains (If they could have both it would be great).

Please leave your fail outside of this.

Being an extremely avid villain supporter, I won't take crap like this being fed to people who are easily bent by false logic. I'm baffled that you even think that a 3/26 ratio isn't the least bit absurd in any frame of mind. This is an imbalance that is simply dying to be corrected, as it should be, and you expect it to remain that way? What the hell...

How about instead of a misleading ratio, we try something else. PRIORITY. There is something called priority in Smash Bros - character priority to be specific. Naturally, those who are the most popular, the most well known, the most creative and iconic will deserve representation and ranking above all other possible options.

Obviously, main characters, who are often the "good guys" are chosen AHEAD of the villains due to their immediate importance over them. In SSB64, there were only 12 slots, so they chose 12 MAIN CHARACTERS from various Nintendo franchises. No room for villains. However, once Melee rolled around and the roster size was doubled, these same 12 carried over, and a few new franchises were added onto the list. But guess what, there was still some extra room for a few more characters, and so those who were next in line priority-wise (in other words - VILLAINS) were tacked onto the roster in the form of Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf. Notice this, they did not choose to add on a few more "good guys" i.e. random *** main characters and side characters from god knows which franchise that doesn't deserve representation. They chose popular, well known, creative and iconic villains who are on the level of their heroic counter-parts.

Now in Brawl, it gets even tighter this time around. With all the necessary main characters now added, let me ask you this: WHO'S NEXT? Guess what, villains. It's now time to add Nintendo's ALL STAR VILLAINS to the roster, and that means more than "just two" as you say. If anything, the number of villains in this game should be going up dramatically, and I don't know how your mentally confined logic somehow believes otherwise.

Could you imagine Brawl with a 40 character roster, and then leaving out characters like Bowser and Ganondorf? No? Well then, I guess some of those "good guys" and other unimportant side characters are going to have to take the back seat and wait their turn, because Nintendo's villains have waited theirs.

The problem is that they are adding more villains, just not in the way we would all like (as playable characters.) Villains are instead recieving representation as SE bosses most likely, so for actual characters there may be more unimportant side characters than villains in the final roster.

 

[Machete]

The most likely villain (by far) is Ganondorf.

After him, Ridley, Claus, K. Rool, Bowser Jr. and Mewtwo are also very likely.

Vaati could be in, he's a 50/50 with Midna.

After those; Dark Samus, Wolf, Black Knight and Black Shadow could be in too, but I doubt it. Dark Samus is hated in Japan (although she's awesome), Wolf is (sadly) outprioritized by Krystal and Falco, Black Knight is outprioritized by Sigurd, Marth and Micaiah; and, if Goroh is out, I have no hope for Black Shadow.

For me, a villain roster with Bowser, Dedede, Wario, Meta Knight (well, these two are rivals, no "villains"), Ganondorf, Ridley, Claus, Bowser Jr., K. Rool and Mewtwo is perfect. They're all awesome.

 

[espio87]

I agree with the fact that the smash bros series needs more villains but if only Ridley makes it to Brawl i'll be satisfied.
maybe the Fire emblem series could get a villain into smash bros too, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

 

[TBone06]

I agree with the fact that the smash bros series needs more villains but if only Ridley makes it to Brawl i'll be satisfied.
maybe the Fire emblem series could get a villain into smash bros too, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

I'd still love to see Black Knight, I think he'd be amazing, but it's tough because Ike is supposedly slow already

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Well yeah they are more heroes than villains but look at Subspace.

- Ancient Minister
- Billions of Primids
- All those crazy new enemies
-Petey Piranha
- Rayquaza

Granted they aren't playable but look at the ones we know of.

- Bowser
- Wario
- King Dedede (possibly)
- Metaknight (possibly)

Plus the characters that have good chances

- Ganondorf
- Claus
- Ridley
- Mewtwo

And we all know that there will be more bosses, maybe even some that can be unlocked by defeating them. It's Nintendo so we can't expect anything!

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Hmm... How many villains could be in?

Mewtwo
Bowser
Ganondorf
Ridley
Captain Syrup
King Dedede
King K. Rool
Wolf O' Donnell
Black Knight
Lord Sturm
Zoda
Bowser Jr.
Jinbe
Tom Nook
Laughing Dog
Claus
Vaati
Galactic Grunt

 

[Superninjabreadman]

so badly want black shadow for brawl...

imagine the moveset...

I can.


Ganondorf's Melee moveset. :O


900 posts! woo!

 

[Agent 1337]

Hmm... How many villains could be in?

Mewtwo
Bowser
Ganondorf
Ridley
Captain Syrup
King Dedede
King K. Rool
Wolf O' Donnell
Black Knight
Lord Sturm
Zoda
Bowser Jr.
Jinbe
Tom Nook
Laughing Dog
Claus
Vaati
Galactic Grunt

You forgot Krusha, Klump (yes, extremely unlikely) and Cranky Kong (also unlikely; only a villain because of the Arcade DK). Donkey Kong is seemingly portrayed to be a villain in some Mario games, but he's more of a semi-villain in them. Wario is another typical long-time rival of Mario's, so I guess he could be considered one, too. Also, in addition, Meta Knight is somewhat of a "mysterious figure" so I'd guess that he's not really a villain. However, the roster has a lot of half-villains and not too many villains at all. I second this forum.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Of my list, I think that the only possible picks from it that aren't already in are Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Ridley, King K. Rool, Bowser Jr., Claus, and Vaati.

 

[Machete]

Of my list, I think that the only possible picks from it that aren't already in are Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Ridley, King K. Rool, Bowser Jr., Claus, and Vaati.

Yeah, agreed. Other villains would be cool, but it's extremely unlikely.

PD: Tom Nook is a villain?

 

[ShurikenBW]

Well, Tom Nook is the leader of the mafia.

 

[espio87]

I'd still love to see Black Knight, I think he'd be amazing, but it's tough because Ike is supposedly slow already

maybe a magic wielding villain like nergal or prince lyon (GBA FE games are the only ones I played, sadly. I hope you get my point, though)

 

[Meta Jr]

Don't we have a lot of villians? One of the only villians we need is Bowser Jr. That's also why we've got Meta-Knight and King Dedede. Wario's sort of a villian. There's Bowser. We've got a whole lot of Assist Trophy villians. We could use a Ridley. Or a Dark Samus. There's many villians playable but there's more to come!

 

[Machete]

Well, Tom Nook is the leader of the mafia.

Really? Uh, I never played an AC game. Sadly, Nook is pretty much deconfirmed, because it'd be great having an axe-wielding mafia leader. He'd be far better than a generic villager.

 

[espio87]

sorry to correct you Meta Jr but although Metaknight appeared as a villain in kirby supertar's mini-game "Revenge of Metaknight" he isn't considered a villain in the canon series.

 

[Agent 1337]

sorry to correct you Meta Jr but although Metaknight appeared as a villain in kirby supertar's mini-game "Revenge of Metaknight" he isn't considered a villain in the canon series.

That may be true in the American version, but not in the Japanese version. In the Japanese version of Kirby Superstar, "Dreamland's lazy lifestyle will end! I will rule!" was actually originally "Dreamland, rife with corruption, will be the center stage for a new way of life" or something like that. There was more, but I'm in a hurry.