"L-cancel" and its uses

[LuigiKing]

Alright so I am going to write this topic based on the premise that you all already know what the L-cancel is and what it is not. If further elaboration is needed I can edit or someone else can fill in, but that is not what this topic is for. This topic is for potential uses of this buffer system that happens to benefit Luigi greatly.

L-canceled dairs: Super duper awesome for defense. Really, Luigi is totally lacking on defensive options a lot of the time, and being able to throw dairs out so rediculously fast really helps. I primarily use this mixed with fireballs to retreat or approach, depending on the situation. You can fit a fireball inbetween canceled dairs, its great. Boss is pretty famous for abusing the dair.

Bair: OK this just rocks. I haven't seen anyone do this... ever. But I recently started picking this up to wall of pain, and I tell you, it works wonders. I don't know how to tell you how awesome this is, and without a video I really can't show you. The tech skill required to do this precisely and without fail every time is kind of scary. I worked on this last night playing friendlies, and now I can do it every time. This works for approaching too, since there is so little risk involved, especially when you can always turn a bair into a buffered Dsmash on a whim. I need to show you guys vids of this, its that cool.

Uair/Nair: Not as neet as the other two. Nair is kind of good just to mess with people, but more often than not you'll want to do a Dsmash instead of a buffered nair. Uair is meh, ok to start combos I guess but horribly situational.

I hope I've shed some light on this, because honestly I have only picked up doing this in actual matches as of 2 days ago. It is just sooo useful, especially the bair. Anyway, I'm getting recording cables for my Bday (nov 7 :D) and I will flood this board with vids of everything I have when that time comes.

Questions? Concerns?

 

[elheber]

You should talk about what moves are useful upon landing a Buffer. I'm very used to Jabbing right after landing. But there's always a quick dSmash and fSmash buffer landing. And there's also buffered Shields and Rolls available too.

 

[ALiAsVee]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191441

=D...

If people are finally more interested in Buffering, maybe this can be revitalized lol.

Buffering moves have saved my life so many times, I didn't see too many people doing this back when i started talking about it, except maybe Boss and a few others.

 

[luigidude90]

you can use it with fair and uair too so you could l-cancel a fair into i dunno a u-angled f-smash.....just a suggestion ive been looking at different moves that can be linked together by doing this.

ill try to get back everyone to let them know but seen as im hardly on i may never get back to it lol.

 

[TheMann]

Buffer to up + b. I think there will be opportunities for it with this. I already full hop, air dodge buffer to up + b all the time and it works wonders.

 

[ALiAsVee]

Buffer to up + b. I think there will be opportunities for it with this. I already full hop, air dodge buffer to up + b all the time and it works wonders.

I can never land that...my opponents get trigger shield happy when i get anywhere near them, unless you do a SHAD really quickly...but a full hop?

If you guys want, I'll ask some of your suggestions to my old guide and we can bring that back from the dead .

 

[TheMann]

Well I don't exactly full hop them randomly. Its usually if I think they are going to try to up smash or up tilt me. Thats when I fast fall, air dodge, buffer to up + b. All while they are still in their upsmash/tilt animation .

But the opportunities with the buffer I'm realizing are similar. It can be real tricky. Like you catch someone throwing out a smash after you short hop dair. You can "L-cancel" to the ground and buffer into up+b really quick. Hopefully quick enough to where your opponent can't shield.

All of this is theory right now but I dont see why it wouldn't work. Next time I get a hold of a wii. I'll do some tests.

 

[LuigiKing]

@Themann

Yeah buffer to UpB works great to catch people off guard. Use it sparingly though. Short hop dair (or even L canceled dair) to buffered up B owns. I have incorportated buffering into my game so much by now I can't let it go. Trust me, when you get the hang of all this stuff you will be so much better. Oh, and Fsmash, use it more. That too :D

 

[LuigiL]

so wait buffering and L-canceling are different things??

from what i understand Buffering is when you air dodge just before hitting the ground to stop the animation right?

but L-canceling is not the same thing?

 

[LuigiKing]

LuigiL, I probably should have clarified.

Its quite simple, yeah, they are essentially the same thing. Buffering just means that you input the command to do a move before your air dodge ends, so on the exact frame the move could come out, it does. This removes all human lag time. A buffered Dsmash is just air dodging into the ground and mashing down on the Cstick during the air dodge animation, so there is no lag and the Dsmash comes out asap.

L-Cancel is just a term used to describe Luigi doing aerials out of a buffered short hop. At least that is how I take it. Luigi has some weird physics that make this sort of unique to him, even though technically most characters can do it anyway.

 

[LuigiL]

oh cool I see. Thanks for the clarification King!

I gotta practice this!!

 

[elheber]

The way I know it L-Cancel stands for "Lag Cancel". Although I didn't play Melee, I know people tech landed (pressed shield right as they landed) to cancel the lag from any attack they were making upon landing. They'd be L-Canceling every aerial attack to fight as fast as possible.

This isn't possible in Brawl in the same sense. There's "Auto Canceling" but that doesn't apply to Luigi. I consider Fast Fall Aerial Dodges a whole different thing, since you aren't really canceling anything ('cept maybe an Air Dodge, but that doesn't have any landing lag anyway). The two great things about FFADs is that you are at least invincible while you come down, and that if you press any attack while FFADing, Luigi will automatically pull it off immediately upon landing (that's Buffering).

 

[hippiedude92]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191441

=D...

If people are finally more interested in Buffering, maybe this can be revitalized lol.

Buffering moves have saved my life so many times, I didn't see too many people doing this back when i started talking about it, except maybe Boss and a few others.

So like does that link answer your questions through the difference between buffering and L-canceling? lol. Luigi doesn't really need to autocancel his aerials cause their mostly lagless.

 

[kigbariom]

I actually screw up buffering because I screw up my SH a lot. I'm new the the whole SH thing and I have tap jump off, so I have to press "y" really lightly and I mess up a lot. But I am starting to buffer.

 

[ALiAsVee]

I actually screw up buffering because I screw up my SH a lot. I'm new the the whole SH thing and I have tap jump off, so I have to press "y" really lightly and I mess up a lot. But I am starting to buffer.

it gets to be habitual, nowadays i accidently SH when i want to full hop.

 

[kigbariom]

Lol, it's a vicious cycle!

 

[elheber]

...Luigi doesn't really need to autocancel his aerials cause their mostly lagless.

None of Luigi's aerials can be autocanceled.

And I have ALiAs' same problem when playing with Lucas. Most of Lucas' aerials are better with full hop (dAir, bAir, nAir), but I keep short hopping by accident.

 

[Eten]

What do you mean none of Luigi's aerials can be autocancelled? 4 of 5 of Luigi's aerials have autocancel timings(they autocancel sooner than they end) and they all fit together with the timings of the rest of the moves to give you a set of different short hop double aerial autocancelled combinations that wouldn't be possible without the fact of autocancel timings.

These are all SHDAs possible only by autocancel window timings
Fair->dair(tricky because you can accidentally fastfall the dair), Dair->Fair, Dair->Uair, Uair->fair(Barely), Fair->Uair, Uair->Uair, and Dair->Dair(my favorite and has the smallest window of them all).

If it isn't listed here it's because it either doesn't need autocancel timings(Both moves end well before you hit the ground, like Fair->Fair) or because it just isn't a shorthop double aerial with autocancel timings on it(Anything with a Bair and a few mixes of the other moves). Of course I don't even need to say that depending on how you time/fastfall your jump you can use autocancel timings for everything but a Nair.

Which I think is why I've always been of the opinion that putting in this 'L-cancel' buffer is pointless, since you can't airdodge before the ground unless you weren't using an autocancel timing, which seems slower to me overall.

IF it were the real melee l-cancel... oh my god. Short hop Double Bairs would be so amazing.

Oh, and there is a LOT to gain from autocancelling luigi's aerials over either taking aerial landing lag or simply not using those short hop double aerial combinations. Short hop double Dair to a jab combo on the ground is pretty brutal in terms of attack speed and makes for good spacing games.

 

[elheber]

I got my information on Luigi's lack of autocancelable moves from this thread:
autocanceled aerials by Tyr 03

Also, I'm pretty sure the fAir is not autocancelable by my own testing, so saying dAir to fAir or uAir to fAir will autocancel sounds suspect to me.

 

[hippiedude92]

Fair to Fair to Dair sounds more autocancelable to me espically since you FF the Dair.

 

[Eten]

Info comes from the wonderful and extensive frame data listing thread by none other than Magus420!

And personal experience. Like getting the timing right on the uair immediately after a jump for me is hard, but achievable.

 

[hippiedude92]

Lmfao, I swear to god i had the weirdest feeling you'd post that link Eten. just funny weird feeling .We should rebump that thread. Why? Cause I can't believe Luigi's jab comes out 2 frames I think lol

 

[elheber]

Info comes from the wonderful and extensive frame data listing thread by none other than Magus420!

And personal experience. Like getting the timing right on the uair immediately after a jump for me is hard, but achievable.

You're right Eten. I didn't remember that thread had autocancel frame data. I retract all my statements, including the one of fAir not being autocancelable. I just have to time it better, it seems.

 

[chic]

fast fall+airdodge+fsmash during airdodge animation=win?

 

[elheber]

FFAD Buffer fSmash? Yes, it is super win.

So is FADD dSmash... it comes out so fast.

 

[chic]

yes it is. ive been trying to incorporating this "buffering" into my playing. im happy with my progression so far. just a question though... do you think you should "FFAD" every time you land? it seems to be a good idea

 

[elheber]

You should FADD ever single-Aerial SH. With the exception of SH fAir fAir, you don't have any time to FFAD any double-Aerial SH since you'll land in the middle of an attack animation. And you should AD every landing that you don't attack in; it's free invincibility. You might already be falling at full speed anyway.

I'm no good at this yet, but Boss is.

 

[hippiedude92]

For some reason I like Boss's playstyle more. Why? It's fancy, mindgame looking, looks fast (well not really) looks abit unique imo. Pratically makes him look aggressive and to me aggressive is fun ;D But it'd like totally ruin the face luigi can fit 2 aerials in one Sh.

 

[chic]

sounds good. thanks. this is what ill be working on!!!

 

[elheber]

This is the video of Boss (Luigi) vs. Lobos (Toon Link) that's posted in the video thread. Just count how many times he FFADs.

EDIT: And another video: Boss (Luigi) vs. Lobos (Toon Link). FFADs and AD Landings everywhere.

 

[chic]

yea, ive seen that many times. good reference vid...

 

[ALiAsVee]

Seriously, if someone can make a quick concise list of the different buffer set ups mentioned in this thread (or i'll do it, later), then i'll update my old thread and beg to get it stickied :O.

 

[elheber]

Quick and concise:

SH +
FA/DA/BA/UA/NA/Fireball +
FFAD +
A/AAA/DT/FT/UT/DS/FS/US/Fireball/FJP/Cyclone/Grab/Jump/Shield/TechRoll/SpotDodge

Yep. Concise.

 

[ALiAsVee]

=D...

I'll bump up my old thread. I hope Hippie doesn't kill me. We should just keep talking over there.

 

[hippiedude92]

*Shoots Alias in the *** and then teabags him* ;D

Go ahead and bump the thread. It gives us something to do with something of lil related to his meta-game anyways. And fawk all these abbrivations it hurts my head x.x;

 

[elheber]

...And fawk all these abbrivations it hurts my head x.x;

Put FFAD in your permanent acronym vocabulary, hippie. Because we should all mix up our SH approaches with FFADs to keep them guessing.