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Kirby Vs. Mr. Game and Watch

DFat2

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 29, 2008
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PR
You know the match up. If you're a good player and play against good people often, your bound to run into this wall:

Kirby Vs. Game & Watch

Its imminent that Game and Watch has has duffs from Melee. I'd like to say that Kirby has a chance against him, and he does, but its really small.

I made this thread to discuss Strategies, Good moves and Good CPs for The Buffed 2D Menace.

Your probably thinking that this might be useless since there's already a section in the Weekly character discussion about G&W, but it doesn't do Kirby justice.

I'll post it anyway:

Overview:
The 2-D terror is a returning vet for the days of Melee. It's out with the crappy shield and in with the buffs, buffs, buffs! Game & Watch now has a normal-sized shield, fantastic aerials, tech-chase d-throw, and to top it all off, he's a lightweight with the smashes of a heavyweight. The smashes of a heavyweight that have IASA frames. Yeah. There’s a reason why he's high tier.

Pros+Cons:
+Can catch 3 energy-based projectiles in his bucket (Down-B) and release them for up to 60% damage (this includes the energy beam from Final Cutter)
+Fire (Up-B) is a decent recovery height-wise, does not send G&W into helpless mode but ends in a parachute that gives him an incredible horizontal recovery, allows him to use aerials after it, and gives invincibility frames on ascent. Pretty much ungimpable
+Attacks are both strong and high-priority, with the majority being disjointed
+Down-throw slams the opponent into the ground, creating a tech-chase scenario
+Most moves have long duration – F-smash can outlast a spot-dodge
+Judge (Side-B) 9 is an OHKO at 0%
+Smashes are incredibly powerful
+Strong aerials with little landing lag; B-air is a notable shield stabber and damage dealer
+Tilts are all very effective; d-tilt has IASA frames that provides a continuous hitbox with 0 frames of lag
+Erratic movement makes G&W difficult to predict
+Small size allows him to duck under attacks and projectiles
-Second lightest character in the game
-Projectiles from Chef (Neutral-B) have somewhat random arcs, making it difficult to utilize effectively
-Roll and dash attack are slow and laggy
-Judge is random: 1 will hurt G&W while 9 is a OHKO
-Oil panic (Down-B) cannot catch physical projectiles

Watch out for:
U-smash - Too good. Kills early and often, especially out of a D-throw tech chase at high percents

F-smash - Exceptional power, incredible duration, and it hits hard! It will outlast a spot-dodge, so roll away or counterattack in the startup. All of G&W’s smashes have IASA frames that kill the cooldown, meaning that the animation will alternate between charge-up and hitbox.

D-throw - Forces you to tech or get hit by a D-smash. To tech it, listen to the 3 beeps G&W makes when he throws. Imagine when a fourth beep would be, and press the shield button anywhere from halfway between the 3rd and 4th to right at the 4th. Don’t forget to roll away. They will try to tech-chase with a U-smash when you are at kill percents. If you get grabbed at over 100%, use the tech-attack rather than rolling.

B-air - Multi-hit, extremely effective shield stabber, and overall very annoying. G&W’s most often used aerial approach.

U-air - Out of a U-throw, G&W will attempt to juggle you with this. Way above the hitbox is an air column effect that will push you up or stall your fall. It can even slow, but not completely stop, the Stone! Watch out for it, it will mess up your timing like crazy. The best idea is to airdodge and try to get to an edge.

D-air - High-priority stall-then-fall that can be slowed and manoeuvred slightly. It has an air hitbox and a ground hitbox, so it might shield-stab you. The bad news? It spikes in the opening frames. The good news? If you U-air below him and to the side, Kirby's foot will go through the Key and hit G&W out of it!

N-air - Maybe I should just say to watch out for all his aerials. The N-air is another multi-hit move, and it can be chained together with another at low percents of you don’t DI.

D-tilt - A very effective pressure move, the manhole is a very effective move. With non-existent startup, great range, and high priority, the D-tilt is quite a fearsome attack. Couple that with the fact that its IASA frames kill both cooldown and startup, and you have a continuous hitbox that will pressure your shield or guard your edge like none other.

How to win:
Save your kill moves – Game&Watch is incredibly light. Do not use your smashes, and try to keep your B-air as fresh as possible, because they will kill early.

Play a more ground-based game than usual - G&W outranges you in the air, at least on the horizontal plane. Keep to the ground and use F-tilt and D-tilt to space. Shield-grabbing his B-air is satisfying and effective. To punish a D-air, walk away and F-smash behind you. It will get you kills.

Watch out for his U and D-throws - Tech the D-throw. If you don't, you’re asking for a D-smash to the face. To be safe, hold either left or right, whichever direction would be optimal for a tech-roll. That way, you cover both throws at the same time. The F and B-throws are moderately useless and will not be seen often.

Final Cutter messes with his air game - Throw it out once in a while to disrupt his approach, but make sure he’s in the air or he might be able to bucket the energy beam.

Remember the U-throw - U-throwing at around 110% on the top platform of Battlefield will get you kills.

Spit out or Swallow?
No doubt about it, Spit out is the way to go. If you Swallow, he gets a free D-air to your head, like ROB or Lucario. Not only that, he can absorb your sausages, even though he can't absorb those of another G&W. Inhale in and of itself is a good counterattack, and the 10% you get from Spit out brings him 10% closer to the ever-so-low kill percentage.

What NOT to do:
Try to gimp him – He has freaking invincibility frames in his Up-B. The only way you'll hit him out of it is with the Stone, when he’s halfway up his ascent or higher. The good thing about this is that the Stone is an impressive vertical killer.

Forget to tech the D-throw - Just don't forget. Kirby cannot escape a D-smash off of a failed tech.

Try to beat his B-air - Wait and punish the landing lag. It's a little bit obvious when he's going to use it, so predict it. Also, his B-air>your B-air.

Attempt the Gonzo Combo - Not only can he escape it, D-throw --> U-tilt is a much better option because he's easy pickings if he attempts a Key. Shield and punish the landing lag. And if you want to combo the U-tilt into an aerial, pick U-air or N-air, leave B-air fresh for the kill.

Stages (in order of priority):
Jungle Japes – High ceiling prevents U-smash kills
Battlefield - U-throw onto top platform is too good
Pictochat - Possible counterpick; high but not wide blastzones facilitate your F-smash while devaluing his U-smash
Halberd– Stay away from the low ceiling
Green Greens/Corneria - Melee stages with small blastzones could end up providing some low-percent kills. Don’t get me wrong – it could go either way. It's not that bad if he picks them, just know that there are better choices.

Synopsis:
This matchup is about staying cautious, punishing his approaches and slowly tacking on damage until you get him around 80%. Then you play even more cautious and go for a kill. G&W has an advantage in the 'raw power' department, but if you play safe, tech-roll/attack the D-throw, and take advantage of the landing lag on his aerials, you’ll do OK. Speaking of the aerials, they’re all very good, so watch out for them. In general, stages with high ceilings are good for Kirby in this matchup, but Battlefield is a solid choice.


Major Contributors: Gonzo, Asdioh, Percon
Any Ideas or suggestions on how to discuss it would be appreciated.
 

DFat2

Smash Journeyman
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whats hard about this match up..?
Kirby has little Range, and most of GWes attacks are Disjointed. He can kill kirby with ease. Hits harder too. Has some effective brick walls as well.

I really don't think I'm the only one who finds this match up hard.

And even so, I think its worth giving the discussion a shot.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Fromundaman
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His aerials, are, quite simply put, a *****. I hate playing this character like no other.
His power is simply useless in this fight, so don't bother stealing it. Inhale is better, even though with his range odds are you won't be using it too often.

Personally, I disagree with the overview, and would use Bairs whenever he's in the air and not turtling you. You can refresh your moves easily enough with grab pummels anyway.

His smashes, thankfully, are pretty slow, and easy to predict, but if you get hit by one, it hurts. A LOT. Personally, the timing on the Fsmash always messes me up for some reason... I always seem to expect it to hit sooner.

The turtle is really annoying because it covers more or less his whole body. Usmash might go through it though... I don't really know...

Judgement is hit or miss. Not really much to say on that.

If you manage to somehow connect with the hammer, it'll usually kill him. Stone just off the edge when he's coming back on is pretty good too. it can't really be punished easily, and even if it doesn't connect (which it probably won't), it forces G&W to change his trajectory which can mess him up, or at the very least, annoy him. Hey, I'll take what I can get in this matchup.

FC can be pretty good against his aerial approach, and shieldgrabs are effective.

Watch out for his tilts. At high percents, they can all kill.


This isn't a great matchup for Kirby to be honest...
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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Apr 19, 2008
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Down tilt -> Fair Brick wall ***ks Kirby aswell.
Who the hell does that? That's like a Melee stunt. You can't L-cancel in this game, therefor a fair follow-up would just be asking for lag punishment.
 

DFat2

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
284
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Who the hell does that? That's like a Melee stunt. You can't L-cancel in this game, therefor a fair follow-up would just be asking for lag punishment.
Well Scratch that. I'll Edit. Now can you help the thread with the other stuff on it? :)
 

ron561

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Dec 1, 2007
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Not to mention theres already been 10000 topics about this match up..we have a place for it in the match up thread..
 
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