Kirby Dreamland 64 is coming back

[AnchorTea]

Now that the stage has been released, it seems like it is very similar to Melee, but the statistics show that it's not the exact same as you can see here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/dream-land-64-stage-research.406249/

Kudos to @ParanoidDrone

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Firstly, link is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c...fo_compiled_regarding_ryu_and_roy_hype_train/

Now that we have Dreamland 64 returning in Smash 4, we need to discuss how to handle it's inclusion. I've got a poll going above, detailed reasons for your choice on the poll would be appreciated.

Although the blastzones in Melee were huge, let's assume for the purposes of this poll that the blastzones are equivalent to those of Battlefield. We can discuss if a very large stage makes it undesirable as a starter in the thread itself

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I probably won't be going to this stage too often, the wind effect has always bothered the heck out of me.
Good to see there are some more 64 stuff coming back, though.

I think it's a bit too early to automatically say it should be included just yet.
Knowing Smash 4's wonky wind effects, we need to actually see how it works, if it's exactly as before I see no reason of not including it, even if the wind effect bothers me.

 

[Ulevo]

If Dreamland is as big as its previous incarnation, there will not be any reason to change the starter list. It will obviously be a counter pick. Some characters will be at a distinct disadvantage on a stage with such large blast zones.

 

[PUK]

If Dreamland is as big as its previous incarnation, there will not be any reason to change the starter list. It will obviously be a counter pick. Some characters will be at a distinct disadvantage on a stage with such large blast zones.

Omg sheik and MK would be not so awesome on this stage, we need to remove it from starter quickly

 

[Ulevo]

Omg sheik and MK would be not so awesome on this stage, we need to remove it from starter quickly

As cute as it is to see you accuse me of personal bias, there are plenty of other instances where this would not be an ideal starter inclusion.

 

[PUK]

Meanwhile LM is destroyed by smashville as soon as he loses the lead. Some characters are in disadvantage, often heavily, on starters, and some find that starters are their best stages.

 

[Piford]

I think it could just replace PS2 (as that the stage people like the least) in FLSS using 13 stages (so EVO plus Skyloft, Wuhu Island, KJ64, and now Dreamland). Possibly also replace KJ64 with Miiverse if Miiverse is also different.

 

[Katakiri]

The stage itself seems slightly smaller and, while there's no VODs up for me to reference, from the stream it seemed like Whispy's wind was reduced to 2 seconds long from Melee's 4~. I can't speak at all about Blast Zones tho.

 

[Ulevo]

Meanwhile LM is destroyed by smashville as soon as he loses the lead. Some characters are in disadvantage, often heavily, on starters, and some find that starters are their best stages.

Naturally you choose the outlier case to compare a generalized problem.

 

[Luigi player]

Dreamland is amazing and probably better than BF, since there's a little more room with the lower platforms looking a little smaller.
Maybe the top platform is just bigger, but dunno, it really seems like there's more room and like shorter lower platforms, which really helps in making BF-styled stages much better than BF is itself (imo), since it's easier to land/get back to the middle and easier to appraoch.

This will probably be one of my most used stages now. :] And it should finally round out the 5 starter stage list with FD/Omega, BF, SV, TaC and now DL64. Although it could theoretically also replace BF. Not sure about that though, since the 5th stage would be controversial again (probably Lylat, but many people still don't like it).


I don't think you'll die much later than on BF (which has pretty far away blastzones already compared to most other stages). If it's just ~3 % more than on BF it shouldn't really move to a CP because of that lol.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Naturally you choose the outlier case to compare a generalized problem.

Not much of an outlier when you have characters like Ness being able to kill at insanely low percents on the platform, Sheik, Pika, Brawler etc being able to abuse the platform for early kills/insane combos. And then you have Little Mac hating the stage, I'd imagine Mii Gunner doesn't like it much either due to a lack of room to use their projectiles well... possibly Toon Link in the same boat, etc.

There is no reasonable reason for Dreamland 64 not to be a starter.

 

[Pazx]

This will probably be one of my most used stages now. :] And it should finally round out the 5 starter stage list with FD/Omega, BF, SV, TaC and now DL64. Although it could theoretically also replace BF. Not sure about that though, since the 5th stage would be controversial again (probably Lylat, but many people still don't like it).


I don't think you'll die much later than on BF (which has pretty far away blastzones already compared to most other stages). If it's just ~3 % more than on BF it shouldn't really move to a CP because of that lol.

There is no reasonable reason for Dreamland 64 not to be a starter.

There is one potential reason: the stage is too similar to BF. Would you accept a 5 stage starter list that is Battlefield, Smashville, Town and City, Final Destination, Final Destination? Would you accept a 13 stage FLSS like that has 2 FDs on it? I wouldn't think so. Allegedly the blast zones are smaller and so is the stage, thus making it more similar to BF than it was in Melee.

 

[Katakiri]

@ Luigi player So long as the stage isn't too abuse-able (namely walk-offs) or KOs you too easily itself (RIP Mushroom Kingdom U) no stage is "better" than any other. The entire point of a starter list and stage striking is to strike down to a stage that neither player has an advantage on. There is no such thing as a neutral stage which is why you want as many stage options as you can reasonably get. The lower the number of stages, the more likely one player is going to have an advantage. If you don't like Lylat or Duck Hunt or your opponent has an advantage there, you strike them. If you both use characters that KO off the top like Fox or ZSS, then maybe Halberd is the most even ground for you two.

With DL64, there's no excuse for TOs to run any less than 7 starters. BF, FD, SV, T&C, DL64, DH, Lylat should be the standard imo with Halberd & Castle Siege being added for TOs that like 9 starter stages. 5 is too little.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

There is one potential reason: the stage is too similar to BF. Would you accept a 5 stage starter list that is Battlefield, Smashville, Town and City, Final Destination, Final Destination? Would you accept a 13 stage FLSS like that has 2 FDs on it? I wouldn't think so. Allegedly the blast zones are smaller and so is the stage, thus making it more similar to BF than it was in Melee.

Wind effect and slight difference in platform heights already makes this not really a thing. FD and Duck Hunt would be a more fair comparison, which I would be fine with as a starter.

 

[Luigi player]

@ Luigi player So long as the stage isn't too abuse-able (namely walk-offs) or KOs you too easily itself (RIP Mushroom Kingdom U) no stage is "better" than any other. The entire point of a starter list and stage striking is to strike down to a stage that neither player has an advantage on.

From where I come from (europe) SV is our standard neutral for most regions and most players like it (seems like most people in the US like it as well), aaand some other stages are there too if you want to try to help yourself in a MU or just wanna try a different layout.

Imo DL64 could work like such a neutral as well. It was my favorite stage in 64 and Melee. So yeah there's a little bias, but it should be better than BF because of less room control (which is why I hate BF).

There is no such thing as a neutral stage which is why you want as many stage options as you can reasonably get. The lower the number of stages, the more likely one player is going to have an advantage. If you don't like Lylat or Duck Hunt or your opponent has an advantage there, you strike them. If you both use characters that KO off the top like Fox or ZSS, then maybe Halberd is the most even ground for you two.

Halberd is never a good stage and shouldn't even be CP. You can die too early there. If it was just from normal moves it wouldn't be too problematic and just a stage thing like it was in Brawl. "Okay I die ~10 % earlier here and have to be careful against some characters/moves when I'm at higher %s...". Now it's "I could die at every % everywhere on the stage against some characters, better do what Isai says and don't get hit, ever...".

People look too much into the character thing, and not enough into the competitive aspects of stages. Completely blank out any MU specific stuff for a moment. Some are just worse while trying to play against your opponent. And there are a few that are really good. These get starters, and others, less good, but still acceptable stages get CPs. That's how it's always been.
Of course striking helps in getting to one of the neutrals where your character does better against the opposing character, which is nice. This helps in making the first game even better and more balanced for everyone (since a random stage choice could randomly give one player a really good/bad stage for their character/MU, or they just like/dislike the layout from personal preference, and we don't like randomness in competition).

Although I really don't want to get into all these stage debates again... I've talking about all of that enough times in some other stage threads.

I was talking about 5 starters, and DL64 could surely replace a different one from the ones we already have. From what I'm seeing / speculating it seems like it would be better than BF at least, and most people still dislike Lylat. And the bigger space makes it different enough from BF to count it seperately (the wind as well), so both could / should be starter.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm not convinced DL64 is actually bigger than Battlefield. The platform placements are subtly different from Battlefield (notice the horizontal gap between the middle platform and the side platforms is slightly larger) and it has the wind; we'll have to lab out the exact dynamics of both this and Miiverse (and for that matter, is there any leaked footage of Miiverse? It's a big deal).

If we go with a ridiculously tiny number of starters like 5 (which is a really bad idea), there's no way we have two tri-platfrom stages in there. If we go with FLSS like EVO wisely does, there may be room for these stages, but we need to lab out their exact dynamics.

 

[Ulevo]

If you honestly believe DL64 is capable of being reasonable starter material, you are entitled to that. I will comfortably watch that not unfold. But comparing it to Smashville, assuming the blast zones remain consistent with Melee, is asinine.

 

[Katakiri]

@ Luigi player You completely ignored stage striking which was my point and the entire reason starter stages exist. If your character doesn't like Halberd, strike it. People could make very valid cases to ban FD altogether or throw up the argument that Smashville should be a counter-pick because it isn't static and the platform moves (which is some people's definition of a "neutral" stage") None of those views are right or wrong since they're opinions but with stage striking, they don't need to be right or wrong. Don't like FD? Strike it. Smashville? Strike it.

But yeah, I'll can it. Dreamland thread. I'm hyped!

 

[AnchorTea]

@ Amazing Ampharos you can use the direct footage right?

Also for those who don't know Ryu's stage that I mentioned:

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

What about the Blast Zones? They were bigger in Melee/64/PM. I wonder if they follow the new default size of Smash 4 (it's bigger, after all) or it will get even bigger (proportional to the new size of Blast Zones).
As dumb this may sound, would you guys consider banning if they were too big?

 

[[Deuce]]

The blast zones are NOT confirmed yet.

Miiverse and Dreamland could be included in the stage list imo, just like how many tri-plats were starters in Melee

 

[Luigi player]

@ Luigi player You completely ignored stage striking which was my point and the entire reason starter stages exist.

Stage striking doesn't exist to make MUs more even. It's to eliminate the random factor of choosing the starter through the random button. And how else would you do it than have the players strike them one after the other without calling it "out of the players power"? Being able to strike to a stage that favors your MU is just a very nice side-effect.

If your character doesn't like Halberd, strike it.

My characters don't mind Halberd too much (Diddy and Luigi should be able to get kills pretty early). Just today I killed a ROB at <10 % with Luigis downB with the final hit not even hitting him (he was already dead since we were kinda high up. Have you never seen the disturbingly early kills on Halberd and Delfino? That's pretty bad for competitive play. Even some of the biggest followers of liberal stagelists agree to that. If you don't find it bad for competition, to be able to die from any % anywhere of the stage then you kinda don't mind the less skille. If you want to play like that, play RPS or just Sudden Death (to stay in the game). If one hit equals death, then there's almost no point in playing in the first place. And there's just a few characters that can even do it - most notably Rosalina. I'm sure enough people have seen her KO at < 30 % with uair off of a throw or just following up. Stupid BS like that shouldn't even be allowed in the first place. Everyone feels bad for the player who died like that, but no one thinks about getting rid of that stuff. It doesn't make any sense. "Actually, this stupid **** shouldn't even be legal in the first place"?! People need to stop letting that happen by allowing such a really bad competitive stage.

People could make very valid cases to ban FD altogether or throw up the argument that Smashville should be a counter-pick because it isn't static and the platform moves (which is some people's definition of a "neutral" stage") None of those views are right or wrong since they're opinions but with stage striking, they don't need to be right or wrong. Don't like FD? Strike it. Smashville? Strike it.

They're obviously wrong. People who say stuff like that have no idea what they're talking about. Though depending on your viewpoint you could label any stage as bad. If you want to play only on platform stages then yeah FD is bad for that. If you want stages that transform or have casual stuff and randomness etc. then yeah they are bad. SV definitely has a few flaws more now with airdodge-landinglag + smaller blastzones which hurts it, but almost everyone still prefers it. Why? Because it's the best stage for their character? Please don't make me laugh (not talking about you specifically, just anyone who believes that). People like it because there's a great balance between platforms + no platforms. You have a lot of free room aerially while still not having platforms around to stop your landing or make it too difficult to approach / get in like on Battlefield [I'm not saying the stage doesn't have any influence on MUs]. Or have platforms be able to drag you off + have them really high and an a low ceiling like in TaC, which sometimes doesn't even have platforms at all. Pretty sure no one's going to label SV the god stage in this game. Like I said, it has it's flaws, but people still prefer that and let these flaws not stop them from going there, because it's STILL with these flaws much better to play on then on almost any other stage. You can always calculate the platform in in advance to know what to do / not to do. It isn't just suddenly below you and you get punished. You can plan in advance "okay, the platform's there, I should try not to land on it to not get my landing punished". Sometimes you might be in the unfavorable position to not have a true option against that, or that the platforms is just there to rescue someone while they would've failed to recover, but both players can always calculate that in and punish their landing on the platform. It's also just a platform and not something that kills like TaCs platforms could do. I'm pretty sure that if the platform was static it would be less balanced than it is now, because platforms create situations where approaching get's limited. Because of the movement of SVs platform this never happens, unless your opponent is always moving with it (but then if you just wait for him to come you might be in the adventage to try to keep him away).

Zero pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said something like "when people take you to Delfino or Halberd they just want to try to win with jank", because that's sadly what can happen on these stages. Getting kills at super low % while being on the stage with moves such as grabs or just combos in general is much too rewarding for these situations. And it's different than getting spiked or something like that, because you're always in that dangerous spot no matter where on the stage you go.
Although Delfino is less bad, because the problem is only there for a short time and if you try really hard you're most likely gonna get away from any direct confrontations with your opponent. Some people might just pick these stages for their looks, platform formation, walkoffs, water, or just to kill earlier with Fox' usmash or uair, which is fine, but sadly they have a few problems and in Halberds case, they're too much since they're always there. At least for my standards. Being able to get these easy kills really helps to randomize the result and lower the skill factor, which is something I don't like.

But yeah, I'll can it. Dreamland thread. I'm hyped!

Welp, when someone says something you sometimes just have the urge to reply. This cycle is hard to stop if it's both ways.

If we go with a ridiculously tiny number of starters like 5 (which is a really bad idea), there's no way we have two tri-platfrom stages in there. If we go with FLSS like EVO wisely does, there may be room for these stages, but we need to lab out their exact dynamics.

Huh? Last time I checked, Lylat had 3 platforms as well.

The tiny changes of DL64 make the stage pretty different from BF (and much better imo). So it should definitely be in there. At least if you want to have the best ones for competition.

 

[AnchorTea]

Stage striking doesn't exist to make MUs more even. It's to eliminate the random factor of choosing the starter through the random button. And how else would you do it than have the players strike them one after the other without calling it "out of the players power"? Being able to strike to a stage that favors your MU is just a very nice side-effect.


My characters don't mind Halberd too much (Diddy and Luigi should be able to get kills pretty early). Just today I killed a ROB at <10 % with Luigis downB with the final hit not even hitting him (he was already dead since we were kinda high up. Have you never seen the disturbingly early kills on Halberd and Delfino? That's pretty bad for competitive play. Even some of the biggest followers of liberal stagelists agree to that. If you don't find it bad for competition, to be able to die from any % anywhere of the stage then you kinda don't mind the less skille. If you want to play like that, play RPS or just Sudden Death (to stay in the game). If one hit equals death, then there's almost no point in playing in the first place. And there's just a few characters that can even do it - most notably Rosalina. I'm sure enough people have seen her KO at < 30 % with uair off of a throw or just following up. Stupid BS like that shouldn't even be allowed in the first place. Everyone feels bad for the player who died like that, but no one thinks about getting rid of that stuff. It doesn't make any sense. "Actually, this stupid **** shouldn't even be legal in the first place"?! People need to stop letting that happen by allowing such a really bad competitive stage.


They're obviously wrong. People who say stuff like that have no idea what they're talking about. Though depending on your viewpoint you could label any stage as bad. If you want to play only on platform stages then yeah FD is bad for that. If you want stages that transform or have casual stuff and randomness etc. then yeah they are bad. SV definitely has a few flaws more now with airdodge-landinglag + smaller blastzones which hurts it, but almost everyone still prefers it. Why? Because it's the best stage for their character? Please don't make me laugh (not talking about you specifically, just anyone who believes that). People like it because there's a great balance between platforms + no platforms. You have a lot of free room aerially while still not having platforms around to stop your landing or make it too difficult to approach / get in like on Battlefield [I'm not saying the stage doesn't have any influence on MUs]. Or have platforms be able to drag you off + have them really high and an a low ceiling like in TaC, which sometimes doesn't even have platforms at all. Pretty sure no one's going to label SV the god stage in this game. Like I said, it has it's flaws, but people still prefer that and let these flaws not stop them from going there, because it's STILL with these flaws much better to play on then on almost any other stage. You can always calculate the platform in in advance to know what to do / not to do. It isn't just suddenly below you and you get punished. You can plan in advance "okay, the platform's there, I should try not to land on it to not get my landing punished". Sometimes you might be in the unfavorable position to not have a true option against that, or that the platforms is just there to rescue someone while they would've failed to recover, but both players can always calculate that in and punish their landing on the platform. It's also just a platform and not something that kills like TaCs platforms could do. I'm pretty sure that if the platform was static it would be less balanced than it is now, because platforms create situations where approaching get's limited. Because of the movement of SVs platform this never happens, unless your opponent is always moving with it (but then if you just wait for him to come you might be in the adventage to try to keep him away).

Zero pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said something like "when people take you to Delfino or Halberd they just want to try to win with jank", because that's sadly what can happen on these stages. Getting kills at super low % while being on the stage with moves such as grabs or just combos in general is much too rewarding for these situations. And it's different than getting spiked or something like that, because you're always in that dangerous spot no matter where on the stage you go.
Although Delfino is less bad, because the problem is only there for a short time and if you try really hard you're most likely gonna get away from any direct confrontations with your opponent. Some people might just pick these stages for their looks, platform formation, walkoffs, water, or just to kill earlier with Fox' usmash or uair, which

The tiny changes of DL64 make the stage pretty different from BF (and much better imo). So it should definitely be in there. At least if you want to have the best ones for competition.

Could DL64 replace Halberd at all? The Wind Effect could make it where it is a counterpick stage, and there is evidence where Halberd is an unbalanced stage. Although Halberd does help the MU's be more "exciting".

 

[Ulevo]

Stage striking doesn't exist to make MUs more even. It's to eliminate the random factor of choosing the starter through the random button. And how else would you do it than have the players strike them one after the other without calling it "out of the players power"? Being able to strike to a stage that favors your MU is just a very nice side-effect.


My characters don't mind Halberd too much (Diddy and Luigi should be able to get kills pretty early). Just today I killed a ROB at <10 % with Luigis downB with the final hit not even hitting him (he was already dead since we were kinda high up. Have you never seen the disturbingly early kills on Halberd and Delfino? That's pretty bad for competitive play. Even some of the biggest followers of liberal stagelists agree to that. If you don't find it bad for competition, to be able to die from any % anywhere of the stage then you kinda don't mind the less skille. If you want to play like that, play RPS or just Sudden Death (to stay in the game). If one hit equals death, then there's almost no point in playing in the first place. And there's just a few characters that can even do it - most notably Rosalina. I'm sure enough people have seen her KO at < 30 % with uair off of a throw or just following up. Stupid BS like that shouldn't even be allowed in the first place. Everyone feels bad for the player who died like that, but no one thinks about getting rid of that stuff. It doesn't make any sense. "Actually, this stupid **** shouldn't even be legal in the first place"?! People need to stop letting that happen by allowing such a really bad competitive stage.


They're obviously wrong. People who say stuff like that have no idea what they're talking about. Though depending on your viewpoint you could label any stage as bad. If you want to play only on platform stages then yeah FD is bad for that. If you want stages that transform or have casual stuff and randomness etc. then yeah they are bad. SV definitely has a few flaws more now with airdodge-landinglag + smaller blastzones which hurts it, but almost everyone still prefers it. Why? Because it's the best stage for their character? Please don't make me laugh (not talking about you specifically, just anyone who believes that). People like it because there's a great balance between platforms + no platforms. You have a lot of free room aerially while still not having platforms around to stop your landing or make it too difficult to approach / get in like on Battlefield [I'm not saying the stage doesn't have any influence on MUs]. Or have platforms be able to drag you off + have them really high and an a low ceiling like in TaC, which sometimes doesn't even have platforms at all. Pretty sure no one's going to label SV the god stage in this game. Like I said, it has it's flaws, but people still prefer that and let these flaws not stop them from going there, because it's STILL with these flaws much better to play on then on almost any other stage. You can always calculate the platform in in advance to know what to do / not to do. It isn't just suddenly below you and you get punished. You can plan in advance "okay, the platform's there, I should try not to land on it to not get my landing punished". Sometimes you might be in the unfavorable position to not have a true option against that, or that the platforms is just there to rescue someone while they would've failed to recover, but both players can always calculate that in and punish their landing on the platform. It's also just a platform and not something that kills like TaCs platforms could do. I'm pretty sure that if the platform was static it would be less balanced than it is now, because platforms create situations where approaching get's limited. Because of the movement of SVs platform this never happens, unless your opponent is always moving with it (but then if you just wait for him to come you might be in the adventage to try to keep him away).

Zero pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said something like "when people take you to Delfino or Halberd they just want to try to win with jank", because that's sadly what can happen on these stages. Getting kills at super low % while being on the stage with moves such as grabs or just combos in general is much too rewarding for these situations. And it's different than getting spiked or something like that, because you're always in that dangerous spot no matter where on the stage you go.
Although Delfino is less bad, because the problem is only there for a short time and if you try really hard you're most likely gonna get away from any direct confrontations with your opponent. Some people might just pick these stages for their looks, platform formation, walkoffs, water, or just to kill earlier with Fox' usmash or uair, which is fine, but sadly they have a few problems and in Halberds case, they're too much since they're always there. At least for my standards. Being able to get these easy kills really helps to randomize the result and lower the skill factor, which is something I don't like.


Welp, when someone says something you sometimes just have the urge to reply. This cycle is hard to stop if it's both ways.



Huh? Last time I checked, Lylat had 3 platforms as well.

The tiny changes of DL64 make the stage pretty different from BF (and much better imo). So it should definitely be in there. At least if you want to have the best ones for competition.

There is one thing I will say. I do not feel Delfino Plaza should be suspect for a ban based on blast zone height simply because the spots it can happen are very specific, and as long as players educate themselves and are weary of these places and times, it should become less common over time. Halberd does not operate this way, and its blast zones are consistently low. I am not necessarily suggesting that I believe Halberd is a problem, but it is a much more convincing argument to suggest Halberd is not fit for legal tournament play than Delfino.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

And what's wrong with a 5 stage starter list? People seem to hate Lylat so much, and now they have an excuse to not use it as a starter. And the people who complain about Town and City are fringe. There are no more excuses to not use 5 stage starter lists.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Welp, I'm kinda salty now. Our two threads got combined and so the Poll I ran is now gone. I really wanted to gauge the community opinion... Did anyone see if any option was leading before the threads were merged?

 

[dav3yb]

@ Amazing Ampharos
Also for those who don't know Roy's stage that I mentioned:

View attachment 56570

Think you mean Ryu's stage

and it's sadly a walk off on that right ride. it was shaping up to look pretty good until that showed up.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

There's word that the direction the tree blows on this stage is random and not easily readable (the source video got taken down, sorry to say). If the wind was random in direction and WHEN if happened, would this still be an appropriate stage to have as a starter, or even legal at all?

 

[L9999]

Hey, will Dreamland 64 be only for Wii U? I don't see word about it.

 

[Pazx]

There's word that the direction the tree blows on this stage is random and not easily readable (the source video got taken down, sorry to say). If the wind was random in direction and WHEN if happened, would this still be an appropriate stage to have as a starter, or even legal at all?

The wind allegedly blows to whichever side has a larger number of players. I don't see how the wind could possibly stop this stage being legal.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

The wind allegedly blows to whichever side has a larger number of players. I don't see how the wind could possibly stop this stage being legal.

If it's that predictable, then it's perfectly fine. That's certainly not random. Either way, the worry that I heard was likely sensationalized in retrospect, so my original question is likely not all that relevant anyways.

 

[AnchorTea]

Think you mean Ryu's stage

and it's sadly a walk off on that right ride. it was shaping up to look pretty good until that showed up.

What was going through my head when I thought Ryu was named Roy?!

Anyway, since Delfino is legal, then Roy Ryu's stage might actually be legal. Only time will tell though.

Welp, I'm kinda salty now. Our two threads got combined and so the Poll I ran is now gone. I really wanted to gauge the community opinion... Did anyone see if any option was leading before the threads were merged?

I actually posted about Dreamland 64 first. About 21 minutes before you. Sorry 'bout that...

 

[webbedspace]

Anyway, since Delfino is legal, then Roy Ryu's stage might actually be legal. Only time will tell though.

No, it would only be legal if the walk-off was dynamically replaced with a ledge after 30 seconds - which won't happen.

Yes, it's sad that we won't be getting another legal stage that isn't blue and brown. Let the sting pass through you now.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The one sided walk-off on Ryu's stage would be relatively tolerable if not for the very problematic side platforms. Camping the lowest platform would be VERY powerful in a lot of match-ups, so powerful that I think Ryu's stage is out of consideration before we really even begin. It's too bad too since the stage is really pretty.

 

[Luigi player]

There is one thing I will say. I do not feel Delfino Plaza should be suspect for a ban based on blast zone height simply because the spots it can happen are very specific, and as long as players educate themselves and are weary of these places and times, it should become less common over time. Halberd does not operate this way, and its blast zones are consistently low. I am not necessarily suggesting that I believe Halberd is a problem, but it is a much more convincing argument to suggest Halberd is not fit for legal tournament play than Delfino.

You're right, I wouldn't suspect Delfino as of right now. It seems at least somewhat bearable, at least if we get rid of Halberd. It's just that they share a similar problem (very low ceiling), that's why I like talking about both of them. But w/e, that topic is done now.

 

[webbedspace]

Well, when this stage is released, you'll be able to do this now.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I actually posted about Dreamland 64 first. About 21 minutes before you. Sorry 'bout that...

Yeah I get that, which is why I'm salty rather than actually angry. I just wish there was a way to have combined the threads and kept the poll results.

 

[L9999]

Well, when this stage is released, you'll be able to do this now.

How didn't I noticed?! Smash 64 hype? Excited for Hyrule Castle.

 

[thehard]

Hyrule Castle for squads please? And I don't see why Peach's Castle can't be legal.