Kirby Changes Patch 1.1.4

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#41
I know Meta Knight doesn't rely on his air speed as much for recovery. But air speed isn't just for recovering. It's useful for spacing aerials and DI too. I personally think Kirby would be fine be fine at a 1.00 value, but considering that his air speed has been low, I doubt they'd ever increase it that much if at all (I mean it was only .85 before and they NERFED it) so I just thought .90 would be a fair compromise. At this point I'd take ANY air speed increase as long as it at least gets him back to his Brawl air speed. But the more the merrier.
An air speed buff not only would help with recovery, but we could also more easily attempt a Fence of Pain with F-Air after an F-throw at certain percents.
 

Quarium

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#42
Anyone up to actually give research to some kill percentage comparisons between his old and new weight? Maybe with a few attacks like Mario's Upsmash, someone's aerial kill on the side and just different kinds of attacks in general. Would be cool to know an approximation of percent differentials.
 

KirbyFan20

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#43
He also needs the airspeed for getting back on stage vertically. He has a LOT of trouble getting back on stage without getting juggled simply because of his awful airspeed. Because of this, he often has to rely on ledge options for getting back. Even the very smallest of airspeed buffs would help him greatly.
 
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#47
Hey guys, to those who have played both Brawl and Smash 4, which iteration of Kirby do you think is better out of those two?
I haven't played Brawl, so I can't offer what I think.
 
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#48
Hey guys, to those who have played both Brawl and Smash 4, which iteration of Kirby do you think is better out of those two?
I haven't played Brawl, so I can't offer what I think.
I didn't play Brawl in a serious manner, so I can't really say anything about Brawl Kirby.
Smash 4 Kirby, despite being labeled as a low tier character, has a strong combo game, as well as an effective kill throw and solid damage output. He does suffer from his usual drawbacks, mainly his lack of approach, but I still love Smash 4 Kirby. Hell, he's my second main for a reason.
 
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#49
Hey guys, to those who have played both Brawl and Smash 4, which iteration of Kirby do you think is better out of those two?
I haven't played Brawl, so I can't offer what I think.
It's too soon to tell, but I still think Kirby is underplayed in this game. I do fell that even with the Air Hammer and Final Cutter nerf I think Smash 4 Kirby is more tournament worthy.
 

Asdioh

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#51
Hey guys, to those who have played both Brawl and Smash 4, which iteration of Kirby do you think is better out of those two?
I haven't played Brawl, so I can't offer what I think.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/tier_list
It's been too long since I played Brawl, so my memory's fuzzy on some things.

Brawl Kirby was probably better in:
-Neutral game, solely because Bair had better range, and could wall people out well. It basically won certain matchups for him. Actually I just looked at some of the data to compare. Brawl Bair had significantly less landing lag, which I suppose is a common theme for all characters transitioning from Brawl to Smash 4, but still. Bair going from 9 landing lag -> 17 landing lag, combined with a smaller hitbox, and the sweetspot being active for only 2 frames instead of 3, plus Smash 4 Kirby having marginally less airspeed than Brawl, all adds up.
-KO power? I definitely remember seeing Fsmash kill lighter characters at like 60% near the ledge, and Rage doesn't exist in Brawl, so it's pretty strong.
-Edgeguarding maybe??


Smash 4 Kirby is probably better in:
-Combo/punishment/trap game. His neutral may not be as good, but his combos (partially due to the game engine) flow much better and do more damage.
-His throws might be better than Brawl, thanks to buffs. Fthrow combos are more guaranteed and varied, and don't suffer from SDI like they did in Brawl. Bthrow combos exist, even if they're rare, and Bthrow can actually KO, which it never did (to my memory) in Brawl. Upthrow I believe is also stronger than it was in Brawl, thanks to the buffs. Dthrow is no longer a combo throw, but he has a great pummel, and it does very good damage, so that's nice. I think Dthrow actually did more damage in Brawl, but again, so did everything, so it's all relative.
-Covering ledge options? Edgeguarding may (or may not) be harder than it was in Brawl, but 4 Kirby's pretty good at punishing people for trying to get back onstage.
-His moveset works better in general. A lot of his previously "meh" moves are actually "good" now, with only a few crappy moves like Dash Attack and Hammer. It might not make up for how good his Bair used to be, but at least his playstyle allows for more options now.


tl;dr... I think they're pretty similar in viability. If you look at the tier list, I think Brawl Kirby stomped a lot of the characters lower than him. DK, Ike, SheikZelda, Ness, Luigi, Pokemon Trainer, Lucas, Mario, Samus, Bowser, Falcon, Link, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf, I think these matchups were all probably 6:4 in Kirby's favor, or better. Actually, there's a page for that! http://www.ssbwiki.com/Kirby_(SSBB)#Matchups
So yeah, I was pretty right about that. There's the other side of the coin: his matchups with top tiers sucked. Olimar, Meta Knight, especially Ice Climbers were all disgustingly hard, and the list goes on.

Looking at the Smash 4 tier list, as accurate as it may or may not be... I can't reasonably find nearly as many easy matchups as he had in Brawl. I can think of very few winning matchups in general, though that may just be my opinion. However, I also think he has less nightmare matchups than he did in Brawl. I don't think a top level Brawl Kirby could reasonably beat a top level ICs/MK/Olimar, but a top level Smash 4 Kirby stands a better chance against the top tier (such as Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina etc) so it kind of balances out.

double tl;dr: Brawl Kirby had an easy time with low tier characters, harder time with top tier characters. 4 Kirby has a harder time with low tier characters, more reasonable time against top tier characters. This is because Smash 4 is overall pretty balanced, even if there are things that make you question what the devs were thinking sometimes.
 
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